My review of the TDVisor 800x600 version

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My review of the TDVisor 800x600 version

Post by stee1hed »

I went to TDVision on the 11th to check out the TDVisor, TDVCam and whatever else Ethan wanted to show me. Here's my input on them.

The TDVCam is 2 camcorders inside a plastic case with some circuitry so you only have to press one button to turn the unit on and record. I really didn't get into the unit more than that since it is 'still in development'.

The TDVisor I tested was 800x600. The higher resolution models are scheduled for 4th quarter this year. Ethan led me through some demos of their 'AlterSpace', and a racing game. In AlterSpace you can roam around and hop into other mini games or watch movies in 3d. I was playing 3d pong where you were positioned directly behind the paddle on one side. Pretty cool. You could put some wicked spin on the ball.

At 800x600 I found the picture crystal clear. No ghosting or crosstalk or anything like that. There was very slight circular optic artifacts that I didn't even notice until Ethan said something about them and that they are working on their own optics to help minimize or eliminate them. To me they were slight enough to not have any weight in my decision to purchase or not. Something that had a little more weight was that I could not see the 4 corners of the display. I believe this was due to my bigger than average aquiline nose not allowing the visor to sit closer to my head. Even though I regarded this as a negative for me, it still was not a major enough thing to sway my decision to purchase or not. As previously stated, the picture was crystal clear with great brightness and no unsightly 3D'ish problems I've seen with other 3D solutions.

The visor weighs in at a mere 6 ounces. To me, this was very light. I was there for about an hour and had no sickness or headaches or etc from the unit. One issue I did have was the ski band was a little small for my head (yes, I'm a big guy! :-) ) and Ethan said I could request a longer band. With a comfortable band size I see no reason that I couldn't wear the visor for hours comfortably. One other thing I like is that the only place you can see the real world is when you look down. Everything else is enclosed. So looking at the keyboard or something else while wearing the unit isn't an issue.

One thing I loved about the unit is my ability to actually read text very clearly. Something very cool if you are looking at getting some privacy while working on something proprietary or whatever. Each screen operates at 85 Hz. I believe they are LCOS type displays. There was absolutely no shutter that I could detect, and 60 Hz monitors drive me crazy.

As for audio, there was a jack in the visor but I don't believe it was wired to anything. Ethan said it shouldn't be difficult to add that functionality. As for head tracking that is on there list of things to do, but there is no date for it to be available. I will probably be getting some more reflective tape for my TrackIR system and rigging that up. While playing games in 3D I found that moving your head was pretty disorientating because the view didn't change. It was something that kinda took me be surprise.

The system current requires 1 vga and 1 dvi output. Support for others is planned (like 2 dvi outputs). These are connected to a cable that combines the outputs into one cable and goes into a 'black box'. This box does something and the signal is output through 2 cables (which are twisted and sheathed together) to the visor. The black box allows for some processing of the video signal that I'm not exactly clear of. I believe Ethan said that he would like to eventually be able to load codecs into the box via a usb port. The box currently does not have one and would require taking the box apart and programming through some pins to change the operation.

They are planning on taking a look at the new nVidia driver this week. The nVidia stereo driver is the main method to allow 3d games on the visor. They do have a TDVCodec that allows for native 3d playback when video sources are encoded with it, but for games it's the nVidia driver. I believe the iZ3D driver coming out soon that can be purchased would be the method of choice for games on my system, since I have an ATI card. I would guess that it would be the setup of choice for many being that nVidia's support is sort of narrow right now. Maybe with their testing they will find it works out of the box. We will see.

After my experience with the TDVisor it was an easy choice for me to pre-order one. The image quality and the comfort of the visor were major pluses in my book. The cost is justified to me in that they are not pricing it so that they lose money and it will allow for better things to be developed in the future. I filled out the pre-order form on their site. Ethan said someone would contact me to secure funds. Once the funds are secured the TDVision hardware gurus ( they hate being called elves ;-) ) will build the unit, with the extra long ski band. I was told this will take from 4 to 6 weeks.

I encourage anyone else that is interested and in the Chicago land area to demo the system as well. I was going to originally wait for the higher resolution solutions before purchasing but I've seen that I can have an awesome experience with their current offering. The other thing to consider is the fourth quarter is a goal, and not a 'for sure'. Plus with my system, anything higher than 800x600 for games with two outputs would probably just get me irritated at the slowness. I can enjoy 3d now!

Hope you find this review helpful! I will try to answer any questions. Please feel free to correct any of my statements.
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Questions...

Post by android78 »

Great review Stee1hed.
I have been interested in this product since I saw a video demonstrating the product and it had adjustments for both focus and inter-ocular displacement.
Just a couple of questions:
1. Do they have the adjustments for inter-ocular displacement and focus still, or have they removed these for simplicity? Also, how easy is it to adjust these?
2. One of the advantages (from what I read) is the wide FOV. Have you compared this with any other solutions (VR920,etc) and, how would you rate it?
3. This is probably more a question for TDVision, but I assume the 'black box' does the L/R display image decoding.
a) Is this going to be firmware upgradeable?
b) Will it emulate other devices (zalman, for instance) so we could use the new nvidia drivers! :-)
4. Interesting you mention the bridge not accommodating you nose as I am also of the large nose kind. Did Ethan say if they were working to correct this issue? Do you think there would be a way to file the plastic back to make it fit correctly?

Thanks for the review, and I look forwarding to hearing your response to these questions.
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Post by wuhlei »

does it support page flip? my laptop only has one video output.
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Some Answers

Post by eschur »

-The "Black box" Process the inputs from your computer
-We have intra-ocular and diopter focus adjustment. You can also wear glasses
-There is a thread on our FOV on this forum
-You can't upgrade the firmware at this time. In the future you will be able to
-We are looking into the "nose" issues
-We don't need to "emulate" Zalman. Zalman uses horizontal interleaving AFAIK. We are doing some work however so that we can interpret page flipping and separate it properly with no artifacting. This should be supported as a TDVision device on S-3D drivers.


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Post by wuhlei »

cool so this will work with the beta nvidia drivers?
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Post by android78 »

Thanks for your reply Ethan.
I'd appreciate it if you could expand on your answer regarding what zalman uses for L/R eye image separation. when you say horizontal interleaving, do you mean that every second line is for the oposite eye (Odd lines to left eye, even to right)? This would be similar to Field-Sequential I guess. If this is the case, is this the technology the TDVisor uses?
What I meant by emulate is provide the correct signals back to the computer so that it would recognize it as a zalman, allowing use of the nvidia drivers with the 8XXX series cards. I guess there may be some infringment of some law to do this.

Thanks Again, Andrew.
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Post by stee1hed »

android78,
Ethan answered some of your questions, here's my feedback on the first 2.

-the eye adjustments are there, I forgot to mention those important features!
-the only other hmd I've tried before is the original i-glasses with Descent at some store and I remembered they sucked. I could not read the text in the little monitors in the game. The screen size with the TDVisor was okay with me, although I have had no experience with more current hmd's to compare to. I believe Ethan mentioned while I was there that the TDVisor would at some point have a little wider FOV than what they currently have (which I believe is already higher than other products) with some new optics they have in the works. There was no time frame.
Oh, I guess I did use the Aladdin's carpet hmd in disney world last year which I wouldn't recommend to anyone due to size and weight. That game needs a serious updating.
Last edited by stee1hed on Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TDVisor Compatibilty

Post by eschur »

So there are some standard ways to present 3D that have been done for a while. Horizontal interleaving separates the odd fields for one eye and the even fields to the other.

The TDVisor at this time takes both outputs of an NVidia card as inputs and provides the user will a full resolution image at 85hz to each eye.

We don't want to emulate a Zalman, we would much prefer having our own TDVision option.
android78 wrote:Thanks for your reply Ethan.
I'd appreciate it if you could expand on your answer regarding what zalman uses for L/R eye image separation. when you say horizontal interleaving, do you mean that every second line is for the oposite eye (Odd lines to left eye, even to right)? This would be similar to Field-Sequential I guess. If this is the case, is this the technology the TDVisor uses?
What I meant by emulate is provide the correct signals back to the computer so that it would recognize it as a zalman, allowing use of the nvidia drivers with the 8XXX series cards. I guess there may be some infringment of some law to do this.

Thanks Again, Andrew.
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Nvidia beta drivers

Post by eschur »

wuhlei wrote:cool so this will work with the beta nvidia drivers?
Definitely I am pushing for that. We are really diligently working on that. I will update you guys when we have something more concrete.
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Post by wuhlei »

is the second port optional?
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Second Port

Post by eschur »

wuhlei wrote:is the second port optional?
Could you clarify that question for me Wuhlei?

Thanks,
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Post by wuhlei »

the head set has 2 cables one dvi the other vga do we have to use both? my laptop only has one dvi.
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Dual Output

Post by eschur »

Ok so right now we utilize both the outputs of an Nvidia card. We can do two DVI or two VGA when you use DVI to VGA adapters. The one-port solution is something that we are working towards for the laptop but it's not complete yet. The idea is that we want full resolution and refresh rate to each eye. We will have support for a single output in the future.
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Post by CarlKenner »

Full refresh rate would be cool. The VR920 drops to 30Hz refresh rate when in stereo, and it updates one eye at a time. So when you turn around or move in a game, the 3D is distorted and you can't really see properly while moving.

Hopefully you could use something like the dualhead to go. Have the visor reported as double the horizontal resolution. Then all your software that uses span mode would still work on a single port.
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Post by pierreye »

I don't mind paying USD 1500 for a prototype 1280x768 HMD with real stereoscopic support. The only thing I'm concerned is the support for prototype unit as we are like beta tester. If we find out some defective issue with the unit, will TDVision fix it for FOC?? Let's say if in the future, the production unit will come with higher FOV and better lenses, will TDVision offer to swap my prototype unit to production unit? I don't mind to be a beta user but had to be ensure on the upgrade path.

Reason is I already had USD 2500 on hand for a new display and is considering either I get a full HD 50" Plasma tv or get a 720p HMD + TrackIR. One comment is TrackIR is more suitable for driving and flight simulation head tracking due to a fix point reference which will almost guarantee center view when looking straight. The only way to solve gyro tracking is to add on another fix reference for centering issue.

If ethan can gurantee the upgrade path and support for prototype 720p HMD, I don't mind signing up for a pre-production unit. Dual DVI input is fine. Also a suggestion is the box for video processing should support at least one HDMI and one component input for xbox360, ps3 and wii. s-video and composite is not necessary as someone who are able to spend this much will have at least a component output in their gaming system. Also regarding the headphone, I would suggest a 3.5mm jack on the hmd is sufficient. Most of us will be very particular on sound quality and would had bought a better quality headphone. You can supply a cheap headphone and I doubt we'll use it.

FYI, I try I-glasses 3D and it sucks. Return it in less than a week and get a full refund. It really give a bad name to HMD as I hesistated to try out other HMD after that experience.
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Post by pierreye »

wuhlei wrote:the head set has 2 cables one dvi the other vga do we have to use both? my laptop only has one dvi.
I think what Wuhlei and all of us are looking at is the blackbox (the video processing box) will be able to accept page flipping method through one dvi or vga port (I'm not sure dvi support 120hz but vga definitely no problem). The processing box will output odd frame to left eye and even frame to right eye simultaneously. In this case, it effectively becoming 60hz per eye.
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One input page flipping

Post by eschur »

Not yet but it's on it's way.
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Post by Segya »

I hope this wasn't answered already but is it possible to use both screens as individual screens? and is it somehow usefull to use them that way? (I like having multiple monitors)
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Post by stee1hed »

Yes it is. With one video output you could use a Matrox DualHead2Go to create your 2 monitors (one for each eye) in a span mode. If you have 2 video outs then just use that as is. The TDVisor currently requires 2 video inputs.
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Post by crim3 »

Segya wrote:I hope this wasn't answered already but is it possible to use both screens as individual screens? and is it somehow usefull to use them that way? (I like having multiple monitors)
I think that the effect is not as you may be imagining it. You would have a different image in each eye fighting to be the main visual focus (which is very very uncomfortable) not a wider desktop.
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Post by stee1hed »

I agree with crim3. Even though it is technically possible, I think for most people it would be uncomfortable and not worthwhile. It may be possible to accustom yourself to it I suppose with training.
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Post by CarlKenner »

If you want a wider 2D view, you can make the view at any depth other than screen depth, then one eye will see some parts the other eye can't see. But there is a limit to how much separation will be comfortable, and completely separate screens is too much.
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Post by Segya »

Thanks for the feedback... I was just getting anoyed by having to move my head/eyes around to get a decent fiew on my tft monitor while wearing my VR920. Just concentrating more on the other screen of the HMD sounds definitely better than that.
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