The Ghosting Thread

[stee1hed]

I recently purchased an iZ3d 22 inch monitor. The single biggest complaint I have with it is the ghosting. After spending some time reading through mtbs3d and iz3d forums I don't think I am alone. Some people can get acceptable results but mine are definitely not acceptable and I am seriously considering sending it back because of it.

Driver 1.07
ATI x850 (1 vga, 1 hdmi)

My left eye shows considerable amount of 'tint' as it is darker than the right. Some have described is as reddish.
I have tilted the display up by about 10 degrees as others have suggested (and even sat on the floor!). I have tried different glasses, in which case the clip ons seem to give the best results, but still unacceptable.
I've tried messing with the gamma, contrast and brightness all to ill effect. So now they are all at default again.
Could it be graphics card related?

In the driver config you can view a static stereo image. This image is beautiful and gives me hope, then I view the dynamic image and that hope fades. I was using this dynamic image when trying to adjust the video settings by the way.

Something I would like to do when I am home is to try to take some pictures of the monitor through the glasses (if possible) so others can see what I am seeing. I would also like for others to post pictures so we can compare. I would really like to see pics from the people that have acceptable results.

I really want to avoid sending the monitor back but will do so if I can't get some better results. The two games I am currently testing/playing are flight simulator 2004 and flight simulator X. I have applied update 9.1 to flight sim 2004 and service pack 1 and 2 to flight sim X.

Let's help each other!

Thanks

[Neil]

I'm sorry you are having this experience.

1. Don't sit on the floor.
2. Tilt it back as far back as it will go, though you may have to adjust this because of the height you are sitting at.
3. Make sure your front and back panels are at default settings. Changing colors around only makes it worse.
4. What games are you playing? Some titles will look better than others. Give us a list, and we can make recommendations.
5. Is this your first 3D monitor? It's important to set the separation and convergence settings, or things will look ugly no matter what.

It's public information that iZ3D is actively working on a monitor add-on to further reduce ghosting, and I have reason to believe it will be successful.

Try downloading the images in the MTBS gallery. Look at the game review section - some good shots there.

Hang tight,
Neil

[Mong]

Deleted

[Neil]

Wait!

I didn't pick up on that.

Make sure you press teh AUTO button on the monitor so the screens calibrate. If you are using VGA/DVI connectors, this is necessary.

Regards,
Neil

[Welder]

What problems are you noticing on the dynamic test?

Dynamic test is made to test that the separation and convergence buttons are working correctly.

Are you able to adjust Separation and Convergence? Or are you talking about a tinting issue with the dynamic test?

[stee1hed]

My main games now are flight simulator 2004 and X.

I have hit the auto adjust button several times and the color settings are reset to default.

Here's some screenshots I took.

This is the color settings for both monitors...

http://stee1hed.shackspace.com/iz3d/ati%20back.JPG
http://stee1hed.shackspace.com/iz3d/ati%20front.JPG

here are the properties showing monitor 1 and 2 and that monitor 2 is the primary

http://stee1hed.shackspace.com/iz3d/ati%20monitors.JPG

Here is a pic of the dynamic driver test without glasses

http://stee1hed.shackspace.com/iz3d/iz3 ... lasses.JPG

Here is the right eye view

http://stee1hed.shackspace.com/iz3d/Iz3 ... 0small.jpg

and here is the left eye

http://stee1hed.shackspace.com/iz3d/Iz3 ... 0small.jpg

Hopefully you can see the difference between the right and left eye images. If it's not obvious, I took the last 2 pics through the clip ons. I get similar results with the regular glasses as well.

I would like to see other peoples pictures like the last two here to see the differences between the left and right eye images.

[Neil]

Ok. You have a double whammy there! 8)

1. I don't know why iZ3D chose that as their dynamic test, but this is not the best choice for determining the 3D experience you should expect out of the monitor. I think it's atrocious, and fortunately, most games look much better.

2. I haven't tried FS 4 yet, but I can equally concur that FSX could look better. I'm surprised you are able to run it because I have had consistent problems with that title.

3. It's time to try some titles that will look good. In the MTBS gallery section, you will find stereoscopic screen caps of Bioshock, Star Trek Legacy, Oblivion, and more. Download sView to view them (sView features native iZ3D support).

Some other titles that look good include Fear Combat, Far Cry, Crysis (when the drivers are working ok), Rainbow Six Vegas (with the exception of the wide gun separation), and more. I'm told Team Fortress 2 is good too. Make a point to try Flatout 2 if you can.

There was another special thread announced today where Vadim Asadov, the CTO for iZ3D, will be answering questions and talking with members about S-3D in general. I recommend posting your experiences so he can answer them. Maybe you have some other feedback and ideas to share too to contribute to the thread. Read our news section to learn more.

Regards,
Neil

[stee1hed]

Neil, first, you rock.

I actually tried FS X first and after seeing my ultra-light had it's wings on 90 degrees sideways and was slooooow, I thought I'd give 2004 a shot. It works much better, but has some heavy ghosting on the instrument panel. I would say to the same degree as the left eye shots I posted.

I am pretty sure I read in the forums that people are playing these two games and to be honest, FS X is the main reason I bought the monitor. I've got the CH Flightstick Yoke, rudder pedals, TRACKIR setup and those all work great.

I will give the screenshots you mentioned a look see. I'm not into games as much as I used to be so trying all those other titles is not a priority for me. I have far cry and may give that a shot, but the main reason I have the monitor is for FS.

Does anyone else have a comment on the ghosting pics I took?

[Likay]

I would like to see other peoples pictures like the last two here to see the differences between the left and right eye images.

I have a post in the iz3d review thread. You can look there: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=33

The ghosting nowadays is not too bad though. Had worse in the 1.05 driver but then it could be adjusted away quite a bit. Though i ended up wearing the iz3d-glasses slightly tilted using that driver. lol

cheers

[stee1hed]

Likay, that is exactly what I was looking for, thanks! How I haven't seen that post yet I have no idea.

After seeing those my hope is starting to build back up.

Hopefully the monitor add-on that Neil mentioned with reduce the ghosting even further and hopefully it will be soon!

Thanks again guys

[Scheinfenster]

It was very easy!
Iz3d bye bye and welcome Zalman Trimon 22 Zoll.

Nearly NO ghosting, very nice 3D - That´s it!

[Neil]

You are welcome to your opinion. Please be respectful and keep your NVIDIA remarks in appropriate NVIDIA threads.

Thanks in advance,
Neil

[Scheinfenster]

Excuse me!
I thought, this is the ghosting thread!?
The ghosting problem from the iz3d is not a problem from nvidia!
No commet about iz3d and their drivers (nvidia-drivers)!
I only want to say, Zalman dont need special drivers to correct the immature hardware (like iz3d).
I Hope nobody is angry about my words - my english is unfortunately very bad!

[stee1hed]

Scheinfenster.
There are some folks that talk about iZ3D being better than Zalman because you get full resolution, they have their own drivers that work with nVidia and ATI, etc. Those factors do contribute to my opinion but none are more important than just plain doing what the product is supposed to do. In this regard I think Zalman currently wins. This is my own opinion because the ghosting issue is just too big for me to move beyond and I read the Zalman is very good. I do not own a Zalman or currently plan on getting one. I am going to be getting a TDVisor though which will equal 0 ghosting/crosstalk. Only negative for me is 800x600 resolution currently, but that is definitely workable.

[Neil]

You're all welcome to your opinions. My only gripe is that the response to this thread wasn't appropriate to what was being discussed.

Do either of you own an iZ3D or Zalman monitor? I think there is a lot of hear-say happening here. I own both solutions, and while I won't go into product reviews, I don't think you have enough information to make an informed recommendation on which product is better. Glancing at a monitor at CES or looking at amateur photographs taken through polarized glasses isn't enough.

Please let this thread continue as was originally intended. You can start your own threads if you want to talk about something else.

Regards,
Neil

[stee1hed]

Neil,
This is my thread. Were you talking about the other 'ghosting challenge' thread?

[Defender]

Any information on the Addon to reduce ghosting?

I have some heavy ghosting in Crysis. And Cod4 the only games I have tested so far.

My tests look exactlly like the pictures posted in the thread.

[CarlKenner]

Why is there ghosting on an iZ3D? Or for that matter, on anything besides anaglyph?

Surely you can calculate how much the glasses ghost by and subtract that much brightness from the other eye. That only works when there is enough brightness in the other eye for you to subtract, so it wouldn't work for high contrast changes, but you should be able to get no ghosting when the other eye has sufficient brightness.

[Defender]

How would one calculate this? Neil said we should leave everything to default? This should be the task of iz3d to measure and calibrate the monitor, and then release a profile for back and front panel.

When looking to my ordinary desktop monitor with the glasses it is nearly black with one eye.

On the iz3d with one eye closed I always see the back panel. No matter what eye I close. Shouldn't it be that i only see the backpanel with the left eye and the front panel with right eye, completely seperated?

Maybe I'm also posting some photos through the glasses so you understand what I mean.

[CarlKenner]

I didn't mean the user could do it, I meant people making iZ3D software and drivers could do it. And maybe they do do it.

The back panel goes to BOTH eyes. The front panel says what percentage of each pixel's (actually each coloured subpixel's) brightness goes to the left eye and what percentage goes to the right. The front panel is designed to change the polarisation of each pixel (technically subpixel) to somewhere in between the polarisation of each eye, so that each eye gets a certain fraction.

[Defender]

Thanks Carl,

this explains everything.