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 DDD Drivers Better with ATI or NVIDIA 
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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I have little confusion which card can better perform with DDD drivers

1) Nvidia Geforce GTX460
2) Nvidia Geforce GTX560

3) ATI Radeon 6850
4) ATI Radeon 6870

As I am using my friends borrowed GTS250 Twin Frozer ( He has upgraded to MSI GTX560TI-HAWK & D2342P Monitor too!) i still get 27 FPS with FULL HD resolution & all specs Highest + No AA + No AS in BATMAN AA, I have also Competed Avatar DX9 with All Settings High without AA at DX9 with 32FPS at FULL HD so things are good even with this old card

I also want to share some thing DEAD SPACE 2 is rocking cool in 3D if you are using passive 3d Monitor just turn off shadows & Glow & this game is rocking creepy a must experience i got 13 FPS with GTS250 in DS2 with all settings highest but NO AA when in 1920X1080 but when it step down to 1650X1050 with same settings i got 28FPS

Now my question:

I don know what will better Perform with DDD drivers here i compare
1) against 3)
and
2) against 4) ofcourse!

As i know amd now has HD3D with 6000 serise means they provide internal GPU interaction access tech know how to DDD & IZ3D so it will be better perfoming with DDD drivers or As it ever use to be things will be much fine with NVIDIA cards (I am tempted to thinks so as AMD now officially backs DDD & IZ3D Drivers & i noticed NVIDIA is still best with their own drivers but as i have purchased LG monitor i can't take its advantage!!)

Here i don bother PHYSICS or CUDA but what actual performance will be in terms of Highest Settings & DX11 i can sacrifice AA

I have doubts that HD3D does matter with Page Flip only and will not be much boost when comes to interlace (Zalman & LG)

I don have opportunity to test AMD cards till date as so far i have always used NVIDIA since 2002 so help is welcome who have used both products

Thanks All


Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:13 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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In general Nvidia cards have better performance than AMD, though they usually cost more. AMD HD3D is not used for interlaced, unless you use an HDMI 1.4a connection, but I'm not sure you want to do that (its probably better to feed the signal directly). I would say just get the best card you can afford. Both IZ3D and DDD drivers will work with either.

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Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:42 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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Thanks!!

So HD3D is for Pageflip3D(Sutter Glass) only?

I just gone through review by Neil for DUES EX HR and seen screen shots too.
even there HD3D images sadly looked flat (Lacking good depth) so had much
dobts about this tech.


Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:14 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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I think the hd3d results were a bug caused by my choice of output (as stated in the review). I wouldn't go by that just yet.

Neil

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Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:24 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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If you use the DDD or IZ3D drivers in HD3D mode, then it will look the same as if you used the drivers to output SBS, interleaved, anaglyph, etc. The driver/game determines how the 3D looks, not the output mode. In the case of Deus Ex it was probably shoddy programming by the developers that caused the flat look, NOT AMD HD3D. Just like Crytek made a native 3D Vision mode for Crysis 2, and it looks like crap. Not because of Nvidia, because of misinformed developers.

AMD HD3D has nothing to do with page-flipping for shutter-glasses. It is a standard by which developers can give the video driver full resolution left and right images. Then the video driver will send this to the display over a common format, namely HDMI 1.4a. It is up to the display to do what it needs to do. So any display which supports HDMI 1.4a will work with HD3D. This could be an active monitor, a passive display, a head-mounted display, etc. It doesn't matter at that point.

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Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:30 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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"AMD HD3D has nothing to do with page-flipping for shutter-glasses. It is a standard by which developers can give the video driver full resolution left and right images. Then the video driver will send this to the display over a common format, namely HDMI 1.4a. It is up to the display to do what it needs to do. So any display which supports HDMI 1.4a will work with HD3D. This could be an active monitor, a passive display, a head-mounted display, etc. It doesn't matter at that point."

@cyberality:

So is the thing i was asking for at begining of this thread, as i noticed that NVIDIA CARDS works more better in most titles beacouse of their own driver being part of their own forceware can really UNDERSTAND NV chips output cycle and mode of processing so resulting in good 3D output with most of the title and decent frame rates in most of it.

Why can't this happen in AMD as they are sharing now internal driver and chip interaction details with DDD & IZ3D so BELIEVEING IN HD3D THEORY here DDD & IZ3D must perform 30 to 50% better with AMD when compared with NVIDIA as they don share their chip's "internal Processing" information with them.

Then Why in real world it does not translet in any performance boost on the otherhand NVIDIA is above par in performance in same catagory of AMD cards when in 3D with DDD.

So HD3D is just advertise GIMIC
No real world differnance other then mere enabling better pageflip/shutter 3D on AMD Cards so that they can also ride S3D bandwagon.

Explain if you think its otherwise ;)
Again "NO OFFENCE" its just knowledge sharing & updation 8-)


Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:12 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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This benchmark wasn't done apples to apples because of the equipment I had onhand, however...

http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=77

What real world tests are you thinking of? What is the measuring stick?

Regards,
Neil

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Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:31 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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@Dilip: I think you are misunderstanding what these technologies do. While the Nvidia drivers may have some competitive advantage in terms of performance, I think the difference is negligible. Any driver you use you can lose as much as 50% of the performance once going into 3D; with Nvida, IZ3D, or DDD. But if you buy a very good video card, you should have enough room to not worry about this.

AMD HD3D is NOT a marketing gimmick. Without this IZ3D/DDD would not have the necessary access to support HDMI 1.4a 3D. Old legacy formats like side-by-side, interleaved, anaglyph, etc. are not effected by HD3D since they don't need low-level access. But again, this has nothing to do with the performance you get. It just allows you to render a 3D image on a wider variety of displays (some active, some passive, some HMDs). The 3D driver itself and the game have exactly the same amount of work to do as before, and thus you will see the same drop in performance. This is regardless of the display you use, since that aspect takes a negligible amount of power compared to rendering an entire game in 3D (not to mention game logic, AI, the OS running in the background, etc.).

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Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:47 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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In my experience, Nvidias solution is significantly better in terms of performance. However, I haven't tried DDD, just IZ3D.

With IZ3d, you take about a 50% performance hit in S3D mode. With 3D Vision, the performance hit is usually only 25-35%.

I assume it is to do with having access to the drivers at a lower level, but have no real idea. However, the difference was certainly not negligible...


Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:59 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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You are probably right. The Nvidia drivers do perform better. I just don't think its enough to base the purchase of an entire computer, or video card, display, etc. just on that. There are a lot of other factors.

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Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:28 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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I disagree with the performance statements about Nvidia being faster than AMD. I will have to do more benchmarking, but I can't confirm that Nvidia has an obvious performance advantage over their competitors. You can't break the laws o'physics!

Regards,
Neil

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:58 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Here is a benchmark I did on RE5 where Nvidia and IZ3D were about equal (though maybe Nvidia had a small advantage, like 5%):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4469&p=31818


Here is one with SF4 where Nvidia had a clear advantage:
viewtopic.php?p=31920#p31920

But if you take 2D performance into account, the advantage is maybe not as clear. On SF4 in particular Nvidia only had 49% of the 2D performance, while IZ3D had 39% of the performance. So yes, that is a difference, but maybe not as huge as you might think. And this depends on the game, as you saw with RE5 there was barely any difference.

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:48 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Actually, I don't know about AMD (which is DDD now I believe). I'm only talking about my experience with 3D Vision vs IZ3D...


Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:13 pm
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Petrif-Eyed
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My computer isn't the newest one but usually i have better performance using iz3d-drivers compared to tridef. On the other hand tridef most of the times looks better with fewer anomalies than iz3d. Because of the way it works there are most probably exceptions both ways. I'm more happy to use different softwares which gives the oppurtunity to choose the best experience so both tridef as well as iz3d has my cheers. Nvidia on the other hand... :roll:

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:37 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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DDD driver may little better with AMD, since AMD supports full resolution 1080p24 HDMI 1.4a 3D format with DDD/Ignition. Apparently, NIVIDIA supports 1080p24, but only with 3DTV Play, not Ignition. NVIDIA cards are limited to side by side, but not HDMI 1.4a 3D display, when combined with Ignition.

SBS can introduce a little aliasing within L/R image pairs (from subsampling to reduce horizontal line without prefiltering). Because of this potentially larger aliasing effect, AA is not really needed for SBS display, reducing performance requirements for SBS 3D display.

Full 1080p24 display requires more graphics processing hardware. I have not encountered a game that I cannot play for performance reasons with my 6970 and appropriate Catalyst settings (described in one of my other postings). This includes recent games like DX11 Crysis 2 and Dragon Age 2, using the highest graphics settings . However, since my overclocked 6970 can drop below 24 fps on some games, including recent DX9 games like Alice Madness Returns and Witcher 2, I would be reluctant to recommend using less than 6970-scale graphics hardware for 1080p24 gaming with DDD. See http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2011 ... ,2674.html for reasonable comparison of hardware alternatives. Unfortunately, AMD does not currently support CL working with Ignition, and NVIDIA does not support SLI with Ignition.

By the way, recent product comparisons like http://www.ddd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=891 contintue to favor DDD.


Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:59 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Aside from performance I think, in a lot of cases, the DDD gives a better experience (more 3D depth). So it may take a performance hit, but you get more bang for your buck.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:22 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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@cyberiality
Nice Avatar!
SubZero of MK??
or Ninja Gaiden??


Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:24 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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@Dilip: Its from the new Syndicate game.

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Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:43 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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cool


Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:17 am
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