iZ3D in 2020

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Feisty_Fernando
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Feisty_Fernando »

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bo3bber
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

john105 wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:13 pmI've never used iZ3D, so I thought I wouldn't be a very good tester. But seeing that nobody here really made it work, I decided to give it a try.

Installation went well. It installs 2 kernel-mode drivers and 2 services. They have the following description:

iZ3DInjectionDriver / Driver inject our D3D and OGL wrappers
iZ3D Driver\Win64\S3DInjectionDriver.sys

iZ3DShutterService
system32\Drivers\iZ3DShutterService.sys

S3DSvc64 / S3D Service (Win64) / Inject and UnInject 3D driver
iZ3D Driver\Win64\S3DCService.exe

S3DSvc32 / S3DSvc64 / Inject and UnInject 3D driver
iZ3D Driver\Win32\S3DCService.exe

I tried it with 2 old games, Half-Life 2 and Dead Space. Anaglyph mode worked fine in both games and both built-in tests. Even the "iZShutterOutput" mode kind of worked, but unfortunately it doesn't look like it's compatible with 3D Vision. I just saw a blinking double image in that mode.

I did it on Core i9-9900KS, GTX 1080 Ti, 3D Vision monitor, Win 7 and 425.31 driver.
Thank you kindly for trying out the prior version and determining the state. This is really helpful to know. If you are motivated, maybe try playing a game in anaglyph since it's working and see what you think of the 3D itself.

I've experimented with the install on Win10, and it will blue screen during installation. The installation of the kernel driver has an illegal reference bug somewhere, and since it's running in privileged mode, it will blue screen. I'm going to contact the vendor for the hook library and see if we might be able to get an open-source license, as the easiest path.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

Guig2000 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:22 am I now remember that D3D10+ IZ3D injection stopped to works on Nvidia after some GeForce driver version (maybe 230 something).

EDIT:
A method that activate 3Dvision glasses for iZ3D: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... ision-gla/
Thanks for the key info here. I've not used iZ3D except for a SystemShock2 long back, so am mostly unfamiliar.

It doesn't look like 3D Vision was ever supported directly via iz3d. But of course there is a lot of code here to check through and understand.


I've setup the GitHub starting repo for the project, so we are a 'real' thing now. https://github.com/bo3b/iZ3D

I've spent a fair bit of time reading the code and understanding the components, and I think the DX11 support is possibly better than I expected. It's written as DX10 support, but there is almost no architectural difference between the two.

To understand better, I'll need to get something that I can actually run. This will be at least a couple of months of work, probably more, unless we can get a madchook license. (Too pricey for us, but the author said he supports open-source projects on occasion.)

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by john105 »

bo3bber wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:37 am Thank you kindly for trying out the prior version and determining the state. This is really helpful to know. If you are motivated, maybe try playing a game in anaglyph since it's working and see what you think of the 3D itself.

I've experimented with the install on Win10, and it will blue screen during installation. The installation of the kernel driver has an illegal reference bug somewhere, and since it's running in privileged mode, it will blue screen. I'm going to contact the vendor for the hook library and see if we might be able to get an open-source license, as the easiest path.
I don't have any glasses for anaglyph to try, but luckily I was able to make iZ3D work with 3D Vision by following the instructions from the link that Guig2000 gave on the last page( https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... ision-gla/ ). The only thing I did differently was using 3D Vision Photo Viewer instead of photos.3dvisionlive.com that is no longer available. It works fine except for one thing, eyes are getting swapped from time to time like mentioned in the above topic.

Overall I liked iZ3D in the 2 games that I tried. But it's still not as good as fixes from our shaderhackers. Some minor things were displayed incorrectly.

What I really hated about iZ3D is it's very intrusive. It injects its dlls in most processes, even the ones that don't use Direct3D or OpenGL. It causes 2 types of problems for some programs. 1. Showing the "Can't load output DLL" message on top of the GUI. 2. Crashes the program. A good example is DDU, which is affected by both issues. Some other programs are affected by #1 but not #2. #1 can be fixed by unchecking "Enable stereo at application startup" and #2 only by "Disable Driver". It looks like only maybe 5% of programs that I have are affected, but still, it would be really annoying to constantly disable and reenable it.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by vegetableharry »

Hi,

is the code only for you available or is it open source now?
I would really like to take a look at it.

Ciao Veggie

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

john105, there is a blacklist into the config file .xml in order to avoid that.
But the driver have a performance impact if loaded, even in 2D mode, so the good idea is to disable iZ3D when not needed.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by john105 »

vegetableharry wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:29 pm Hi,

is the code only for you available or is it open source now?
I would really like to take a look at it.

Ciao Veggie
The link was posted earlier:
bo3bber wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:41 am I've setup the GitHub starting repo for the project, so we are a 'real' thing now. https://github.com/bo3b/iZ3D

Guig2000 wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:42 pm john105, there is a blacklist into the config file .xml in order to avoid that.
But the driver have a performance impact if loaded, even in 2D mode, so the good idea is to disable iZ3D when not needed.
Thanks, it's good to know. But in any case, I don't think I'll really be using it. I only installed it to test because bo3b asked. I wanted to mention these issues as something I would not like to see in the open source version. I think a black list is the worst option to deal with the problem because I would need to add all software I have to it to be safe. Some kind of a white list would be better, and the way 3D Vision "just works" without any black/white lists or disabling/enabling it every time would be perfect (but maybe not achievable).

Generally I prefer software without drivers or services because it means that it's not something always running in the background and won't interfere with the system unless started manually (like Helifax's wrapper for example) or by a game via a .dll copied to its folder (like 3Dmigoto).

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

The best way in order to avoid that may be the tridef ignition way, where only games that are launched within the ignition control panel runs in S3D.
But it avoid microsoft game store games to works. So it still require an additional general "on" swich for this games.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by mhalsan »

I'm very glad to hear IZ3D might be started back up. It was the first 3D driver I used back in 2008, under WinXP.

Is there a crowd-fund or Patreon set up for this yet?

Thanks, Mark

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Feisty_Fernando »

mhalsan wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:11 pm I'm very glad to hear IZ3D might be started back up. It was the first 3D driver I used back in 2008, under WinXP.

Is there a crowd-fund or Patreon set up for this yet?

Thanks, Mark
I'd be curious to see if the dual-projector output for passive projection could be unlocked for non-AMD video cards.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by 3DNovice »

RAGEdemon wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:56 am 4. There is a marked output for which we can modify hardware to use shutter glasses with
I'm assuming that you are referring to the blue line code inserted by iz3D in each frame for frame sequential mode, that could possibly be leveraged to make
3D Vision glasses/emitters and monitors viable. Perhaps it could be leveraged to give proper extinction on non 3D Vision 120Hz monitors that seem to suffer from in-resolvable ghosting.
As well as allowing 144Hz and above 3D experiences :)

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Wowfunhappy »

bo3bber wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:41 am To understand better, I'll need to get something that I can actually run. This will be at least a couple of months of work, probably more, unless we can get a madchook license. (Too pricey for us, but the author said he supports open-source projects on occasion.)
So, I guess you've ruled out switching it to EasyHook/Deviare/Detours?

As an onlooker, it seems to me that switching to a fully OSS option would be more "future proof" over the long term (no reliance on a single company for continued development), and could make it easier for people to contribute the overall project.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by jeroenkramer »

The forum of iz3d had a topic on the game City Car Driving, and some fixes. it had some performance updates, and fix for rotating trees. ( http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=8095 )

Is there a chance this from the forum is saved?

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by PPorquer3D »

Hello, i am glad to hear that this driver is still alive & sought after-

i hope that openGL support for it gets developed further, there is lots of Nintendo 64 games with high definition texture packs that would benefit with the addition of 3d, but these texture paks or some of the visual effects are only available with the emulator's OpenGl plugins, & so far i never got them to work in 3d.

UPdate - yesterday i was able to run "mario kart reloaded" in OpenGL mode by modifying the configuration file of iz3d - Config.xml
to activate openGL driver modify these lines:
<OGLRunAtStartup Value="1"/>

further down

<EmulateQB Value="1"/> ----- this activates quadbuffer emulation


The windows 10 issue - i hope we can get it working, some programs (mostly emulators) can only work with windows 10 by pasting certain .dll files inside the executable folder, i am wondering if this need to be done with IZ3d & some of the games that we need to run

edit: another driver that converts Opengl games to 3d is the one fetured on LG optimus phones. the only flaw it had is that some heavy games/emulators would get really slow. I wish someone could figure out how to port this driver from android to windows

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

So awesome I found this thread, I was able to reset my IZ3D 30 day license with the instructions from Rage Demon's post. Just awesome to be able to use IZ3D's driver again. There are just some games IZ3D handles better than NV and Tridef IMO such as Far Cry 2. The same could be said of each depending on the game though. Would be great to have it working in Win 10. Big thanks to those working on this.

The question was asked for how IZ3D users like to launch the game. I'm not particular but see a possible problem if you forget to disable the nVidia 3D driver both could launch. Maybe a game launcher like the fix manager and helixvision would be better?

In any case, I've searched for a way to use IZ3D since my second IZ3D monitor died last year. The trial hack enables me to use it on my Win 7 machine so I'm happy for now.

I would love to help, but my coding ability stops at visual basic and access. Thanks again and look forward to what you come up with

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Wow! For what it's worth, side by side is working brilliantly here on Win 7 box with projector and 3DTV and the reset trial. I don't recall getting to try their side by side before, I bought the license when I did to use with my Emagine Z800 HMD, precursor to modern VR. I remember using field sequential with IZ3D, the only output the Z800 could use, but was called something else.

Also for a short time IZ3D had full open gl support. There was a 30 day license period just like the other outputs. I bought the open gl license. One driver update and it was gone. Memory is faint on this since it's been around a decade, but I remember writing support and their response was there was a legal problem with their use of open gl support and could not help or refund

Not sure if it would be of any help because early IZ3D drivers were not very stable but I've been hording all of those IZ3D drivers all these years. I zipped and dropped them here https://www.dropbox.com/s/i1kckl4p6olcq ... s.zip?dl=0

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Robert256 »

Hi guys,

Regarding the hardware compatibility problem: I'm thinking of developing a simple device based on a cheap ($2) Digispark board, with a photosensor and some IR leds. The problem is that it is difficult to get a VSync signal out of your computer, which is needed to sync your glasses with the monitor. In older VGA monitors you could easily read out a pin, but that doesn't work for HDMI or displayport anymore. The pyramid and 3D controller driver are used to provide this syncing, but may give compatibility problems in the future (also, if the pyramid dies, it will be increasingly difficult to replace).
By drawing a small square in a corner of the screen (for instance white for right, black for left image), and reading it with the photosensor, we could control an IR led array to make the glasses work. That way, we could develope a cheap open source solution which can completely circumvent the pyramid and USB driver, and it would work on all 120Hz monitors, also in the future.
The Digispark board (or clones) work at 16 or 16.5 MHz, I have the feeling that should be enough to get the timings for the glasses right. They are very easy to program.

Regarding the timing of IR pulses, I saw this post, which should be very helpful in writing the Digispark code: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9790

It would be trivial to add code for drawing the small square to the iZ3D or other drivers.

Has someone already tried something like this ?

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by russellk »

Robert256 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:48 am Hi guys,

Regarding the hardware compatibility problem: I'm thinking of developing a simple device based on a cheap ($2) Digispark board, with a photosensor and some IR leds. The problem is that it is difficult to get a VSync signal out of your computer, which is needed to sync your glasses with the monitor. In older VGA monitors you could easily read out a pin, but that doesn't work for HDMI or displayport anymore. The pyramid and 3D controller driver are used to provide this syncing, but may give compatibility problems in the future (also, if the pyramid dies, it will be increasingly difficult to replace).
By drawing a small square in a corner of the screen (for instance white for right, black for left image), and reading it with the photosensor, we could control an IR led array to make the glasses work. That way, we could develope a cheap open source solution which can completely circumvent the pyramid and USB driver, and it would work on all 120Hz monitors, also in the future.
The Digispark board (or clones) work at 16 or 16.5 MHz, I have the feeling that should be enough to get the timings for the glasses right. They are very easy to program.

Regarding the timing of IR pulses, I saw this post, which should be very helpful in writing the Digispark code: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9790

It would be trivial to add code for drawing the small square to the iZ3D or other drivers.

Has someone already tried something like this ?
Hi Robert,

I'm sure Ragedaemon did something similar to this years ago.

When I was trying to get my projector working I found the same post you did, but there are also quite a few other similar topics on this board, some with other code etc. I believe. I can't find the links at the moment though.

I've been looking at something similar on and off as I have a sync issue with my projector. I've seen some other ideas on extracting vsync, for example by using a 1>2 HDMI splitter then using an HDMI decoder on one of the outputs. There are even HDMI decoder boards available for the PI, but I'm not sure if they have a high enough pixel clock etc. to support 1920x1080x120hz.

Also remember that you need more than just 120Hz support in a monitor, otherwise you'll get bad ghosting.
Win 10 1903 (Via 3dfix manager - Non DCH), 9700K, Gigabyte 2080Ti OC, BenQ XL2420T 3d surround, LG 3d OLED, 4k Projector (3dtvplay), WMR Odyssey+, WIn 19 1809 (425.31), Win 7 Pro x64

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Robert256 »

russellk wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:02 am Hi Robert,
I'm sure Ragedaemon did something similar to this years ago.
When I was trying to get my projector working I found the same post you did, but there are also quite a few other similar topics on this board, some with other code etc. I believe. I can't find the links at the moment though.
I've been looking at something similar on and off as I have a sync issue with my projector. I've seen some other ideas on extracting vsync, for example by using a 1>2 HDMI splitter then using an HDMI decoder on one of the outputs. There are even HDMI decoder boards available for the PI, but I'm not sure if they have a high enough pixel clock etc. to support 1920x1080x120hz.
Also remember that you need more than just 120Hz support in a monitor, otherwise you'll get bad ghosting.
Hi Russellk, I'm aware that other solutions have been built and proposed. But they all require expensive hardware (either PIC programmers or HDMI decoder boards) and extensive technical knowledge. Arduino boards like the Digispark are extremely cheap and can easily be programmed on any computer. A simple tutorial would be enough for everyone to build one themselves.
Unfortunately simple and cheap HDMI to VGA adapters don't giva a valid VSYNC pulse, otherwise we could use one of those to read the VGA pin and skip the photosensor part, which would make the timing part much easier. It would be great to have a very easy to make and inexpensive alternative for the pyramid.
16.5 Mhz should allow for timing adjustments to minimize the ghosting. If the code is open source, you can easily optimize the settings for your specific monitor. For CRT-monitors you could even easily tweak the timing by placing the small square / photosensor at a different height.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by 3DNovice »

Years ago, when I used to read this forum, I read a post by someone that said they used some type of light sensor.

I wish I could link the thread, but I can't find it. I do recall that it was stated that they were simply detecting the frame/display panel change

They mounted it to the front of the display and it would sense the frames changing, just as you are suggesting.

This approach makes sense to me for the least ghosting, because syncing to frames exiting the GPU does not account for any delays to the image being shown.

Such as individual display panel response, the display panel technology used (TN, VA, IPS / LED or OLED) and proprietary image processing applied to the incoming image that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.

For dx11 games, I would think that the overlay you suggest could easily be added in using 3Dmigoto, just like there is currently the in-game settings overlay accessed via F1.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Had time to play with it a bit. I have 4 3D devices that I can try it on. A 65" passive LG 3D TV, a HD DLP projector with EDID override, a ASUS 3D ready monitor and a 3D ready projector. I'm assuming trying it in Win 10 is futile? Everything tried so far has been in Win 7.

The first time I tried it on my HD projector, I didn't see shutter as an option. It came up when I tried it a second time. Shutter is working here with the shutter glasses from the projector but as someone else posted, left and right is constantly being inverted. Looks great when in correct mode. Anaglyph and side by side working flawlessly , in fact really surprised how well it runs in Win 7 compared to XP days with their OEM monitor.

Feel free to PM me if there is anything you want me to try with the gear I have.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

A few new SBS taken with IZ3D. Far Cry 2 Image Image This using my 3DTV and their SBS output. I'll take a few with their shutter output when I get a chance.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

I like this thread.
Because I have updated my screen and I have run out of 3d. The new one I can't get it to sync with the nvidia glasses. (I have tried to follow some tutorials, but I don't understand anything about how that synchro works).
I'm attentive here to see if I find any alternative to continue playing in 3d with it in some way.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Isaacvigo wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:47 am I like this thread.
Because I have updated my screen and I have run out of 3d. The new one I can't get it to sync with the nvidia glasses. (I have tried to follow some tutorials, but I don't understand anything about how that synchro works).
I'm attentive here to see if I find any alternative to continue playing in 3d with it in some way.
Greetings, you should probably start a new thread asking for help with your new monitor, if it's 3D capable, chances are someone here can help you get back in the game with an EDID override or possibly fix manager can get you sorted. Good luck

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

Grant S wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:03 pm Greetings, you should probably start a new thread asking for help with your new monitor, if it's 3D capable, chances are someone here can help you get back in the game with an EDID override or possibly fix manager can get you sorted. Good luck
I have created a thread, viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25542
but it may not be well understood, since English is not my native language, or it may also be that there is no known solution for that monitor ...
The thing is, there have been no answers.
Regards.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Isaacvigo wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:19 pm
Grant S wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:03 pm Greetings, you should probably start a new thread asking for help with your new monitor, if it's 3D capable, chances are someone here can help you get back in the game with an EDID override or possibly fix manager can get you sorted. Good luck
I have created a thread, viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25542
but it may not be well understood, since English is not my native language, or it may also be that there is no known solution for that monitor ...
The thing is, there have been no answers.
Regards.



Your English is very good actually and I think you articulated clearly what you want. As you can see, these forums aren't as popular as they once were. Sadly probably a sign that no official 3D support from anyone has had an effect. I have a feeling you will have to mod the EDID to get that to work. Here is a good thread that may get you in the right direction. https://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtop ... 25&p=22698 There are some folks here that know a great deal about it. If it's possible, I think you've come to the right place.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

Grant S wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:45 pm Your English is very good actually and I think you articulated clearly what you want. As you can see, these forums aren't as popular as they once were. Sadly probably a sign that no official 3D support from anyone has had an effect. I have a feeling you will have to mod the EDID to get that to work. Here is a good thread that may get you in the right direction. https://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtop ... 25&p=22698 There are some folks here that know a great deal about it. If it's possible, I think you've come to the right place.

You're very kind. Many thanks. I'm going to squeeze that thread, to see what I can understand :)
Greetings!

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Feisty_Fernando »

Grant S wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:57 pm

In any case, I've searched for a way to use IZ3D since my second IZ3D monitor died last year. The trial hack enables me to use it on my Win 7 machine so I'm happy for now.

My iZ3D died, it only took 3 new caps on the power board to be back up and running. Unless you have a cracked screen, it's often a <$10 fix with some soldering and a few hours of time. Mine is running like new again but I don't use Win 7 anymore.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Feisty_Fernando wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:18 am
Grant S wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:57 pm

In any case, I've searched for a way to use IZ3D since my second IZ3D monitor died last year. The trial hack enables me to use it on my Win 7 machine so I'm happy for now.

My iZ3D died, it only took 3 new caps on the power board to be back up and running. Unless you have a cracked screen, it's often a <$10 fix with some soldering and a few hours of time. Mine is running like new again but I don't use Win 7 anymore.
Thank you Sir, the first one I had was a bad screen. Fortunate for me it was under warranty so I was able to return it. This one I'm 99% certain it is the caps on that power board. I do plan to recap it sometime. I have 4 3D devices now that I no longer use, including that one. My old Emagine Z800, my HP passive 3D monitor and a ASUS 3D ready monitor. The IZ3D had an amazing picture for it's time but my eye sight is at a point now that I can no longer read text on those tiny things without glasses. With the way I have things set up now, I really don't have 2 spare DVI's or display ports. When I do fix it, it will probably just go back in storage for a rainy day like my other obsolete toys and VR HMD's

I was able to reset the IZ3D 30 day trial by following what Rage posted on the first page. I plan to be evaluating that driver with my current devices on my Win 7 machine as long as I'm able. This was the part of Rage's post that got me sorted.
What I do is to delete a folder in "c:\Program Data" that looks like a random name. Something like "Fmdfzxl" or similar. In there there is only one file with the extension ".li5"

Then you must run regedit and search for "msdaipp". You'll find a key with that name. It has a subkey named "Providers". There you'll find one or more keys that are GUID names (those long series of numbers and letters). Delete them.

From this point you should have 30 more days left of trial. You'll have to do it again every month, so don't forget the steps.
The only difference was in regedit for "msdaipp", there were two keys I had to delete, all keys under "providers", and there was another entry for "provider" Once I deleted all those, the trial reset. Thanks again

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