Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

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Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

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The S-3D Gaming Alliance was featured in the Toronto Star today talking about Call of Duty: Black Ops!  Looking at the media coverage so far, it seems gaming media have taken an about-face towards 3D with its once harshest critics suddenly becoming its biggest fans.
Read full article...

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

I'm interested in this too. If some one is already playing this one would you be kind enough to let us know what system your playing it on. I'm interested in the PS3 version. And mainly- does it stutter.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

Guys from what i understand the PS3 version is better then the 360 one right?

I have the 360 version and it uses 720P side by side mode, that 360x720 per eye yeck..
All PS3 games that do 3D do the HDMI 1.4 one, so it should be full resolution 720P?

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Benerfe »

I haven't bought black ops yet but I heard it uses alot of frames for 3d

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

Benerfe wrote:I haven't bought black ops yet but I heard it uses alot of frames for 3d
Last night i tested the 360 version, and when you enable 3D, it asks to set xbox resolution to 720P.
I tested it with 1080P upscaling and the 3D is bad, lots of ghosting.

To get a proper 3D xbox MUST be set to 720P, or else it wont work and youll get ghosting.

It uses side by side mode, so the loss of quality is noticeable.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by BlackShark »

The game FAQ says that the PS3 version provides the frame in over/under format, (not hdmi1.4 frame packing).

But you shouldn't blindly associate the output resolution with the render resolution since both consoles are known make heavy use of upscalers, even on their most known games (Halo or Gran Turismo 5 prologue are great examples)
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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

BlackShark wrote:The game FAQ says that the PS3 version provides the frame in over/under format, (not hdmi1.4 frame packing).

But you shouldn't blindly associate the output resolution with the render resolution since both consoles are known make heavy use of upscalers, even on their most known games (Halo or Gran Turismo 5 prologue are great examples)

I hope they talking about HDMI 1.4 Above Under mode, its a full frame size. Otherwise i see no reason why would the use a different 3D on PS3?

About the upscaler, as i said earlier, you have to disable it on 360, if you have your resolution anything but 720 you will get a warning message and the 3D will be distorted.

I tested on 1080P and it was unplayable

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by android78 »

Well.... I have (so long as all goes to plan) a new Samsung 58" plasma being delivered tomorrow. The problem is that I don't know if I should get this game for the PS3 or XBOX360.

Looks like it works pretty well on the XBOX if the following is to be believed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9wuYXr-QA8

I wish someone would put a comparison between PS3 and XBOX up.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

android78 wrote:Well.... I have (so long as all goes to plan) a new Samsung 58" plasma being delivered tomorrow. The problem is that I don't know if I should get this game for the PS3 or XBOX360.

Looks like it works pretty well on the XBOX if the following is to be believed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9wuYXr-QA8

I wish someone would put a comparison between PS3 and XBOX up.

Get the PS3 version, it will look better for sure. I didnt liked the 360's 3D on my 46inch and you have 58, it will look even worse
You need to play one rely good 3D game to have something to compare to, because if you dont then everything will look OK.

I played Fallout New Vegas PC on my 3D TV and its one of the better 3D games with DDD drive (25USD if you have ATI card) it looks incrdible.


Also, because xbox dont have native 3D support, each time you press the home button you have to turn off 3D or everything will be double

PS3 can show menus in 3D

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by android78 »

ViruzZ wrote:Get the PS3 version, it will look better for sure. I didnt liked the 360's 3D on my 46inch and you have 58, it will look even worse
You need to play one rely good 3D game to have something to compare to, because if you dont then everything will look OK.
Thanks for the advice.
How did you find the frame rate on the 360 with stereo enabled? Was it just the poor resolution that made it a problem when actually in the game, or were there other issues?

If anyone has the PS3 version, it would be great to know how that stacks up in terms of frame rate and image resolution.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

android78 wrote:
ViruzZ wrote:Get the PS3 version, it will look better for sure. I didnt liked the 360's 3D on my 46inch and you have 58, it will look even worse
You need to play one rely good 3D game to have something to compare to, because if you dont then everything will look OK.
Thanks for the advice.
How did you find the frame rate on the 360 with stereo enabled? Was it just the poor resolution that made it a problem when actually in the game, or were there other issues?

If anyone has the PS3 version, it would be great to know how that stacks up in terms of frame rate and image resolution.
The poor resolution, you must set xbox resolution to 720P, and the game uses side by side mode

1280x720 is the full resolution for 2D, for 3D side by side its 640x720 per eye, very low sub HD resolution and its noticeable when you play, like everything is sort of foggy and blurry because on full HD tv its stretched

PS3 technically should use HDMI 1.4 frame pack mode (above below but full resolution)

frame rate was fine i guess, and if you only have xbox then i would recommend playing in 3D

In 5m i will be testing the PC version with DDD driver, if it works fine, then i wont be buying PS3 version

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by android78 »

Guess I should just buy both from both from EB and return the one that is least impressive within 7 days?
I wonder if they do the return when they price match. hmmm

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by cybereality »

I am pretty certain the PS3 version must look better. Full resolution vs half-resolution. The only argument I could see is that maybe the xbox version runs smoother since it is rendering less. Hard to say without playing them.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

cybereality wrote:I am pretty certain the PS3 version must look better. Full resolution vs half-resolution. The only argument I could see is that maybe the xbox version runs smoother since it is rendering less. Hard to say without playing them.
Just tested the PC version on ATI card with DDD using world at war profile (they have some special shadows optimizations or they wont work)
The 3D effect is awesome, but the game is unplayable because when you press the zoom button (on consoles Left trigger) the screen gets very dark and bury as hell, you cant see anything including your crosshair and scope.
I hope they update their driver to support this game ASAP.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

Well I'm at work this morning- Kinda in rough shape. I stayed up playing Black Ops and partying way to late. My PS3 and Panasonic VT25 like this one. I'll post more back in the console forum area shortly. Frame rate is note an issue with this game on the PS3 in 3D.

cheers

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

Chiefwinston wrote:Well I'm at work this morning- Kinda in rough shape. I stayed up playing Black Ops and partying way to late. My PS3 and Panasonic VT25 like this one. I'll post more back in the console forum area shortly. Frame rate is note an issue with this game on the PS3 in 3D.

cheers
Do you have to enable 3D on your TV manually or when you boot the game it turns on automatically?
im talking specifically about this game

thanks

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

It's automatic. There isn't any stereo 3d adjustments in the PS3 version. You turn it on or you turn it off. There are not any options like in Avatar. But it does work very very well. Not perfect. But very very good 3D. I'm going to post more in the console forum later.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

Chiefwinston wrote:It's automatic. There isn't any stereo 3d adjustments in the PS3 version. You turn it on or you turn it off. There are not any options like in Avatar. But it does work very very well. Not perfect. But very very good 3D. I'm going to post more in the console forum later.

cheers
I mean if the TV detects the 3D automatically?

In xbox you have to turn the 3D in-game and then turn the 3D on your TV

If its fully automatic it means that the PS3 3D is superior to 360, its a full resolution 3D

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

The TV is activating the 3D automatically. I'm certain of that. I have no way of comparing with other PC/xBox formats at this time. I'm satisfied with what my wimpy PS3 and VT25 are delivering.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by android78 »

The following article is an interesting read:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... ps-faceoff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks like the xbox version is better in pretty much every way, including 3D.
I don't think it really makes any difference the resolution that the TV detects since all the consoles (well, xbox360 and ps3) have hardware scalers anyway. For example, Halo Reach, the TV detects it as 1080P, but up close, you can see that this isn't the true resolution.
If my TV comes today (and has glasses with it), I think I'll get the xbox version to try out.
Chiefwinston - With the PS3, can you change the screen size on the PS3 (not in the game)? If you can, have you tried setting the screen size SMALLER then the tv is and see if it makes the 3D effect more pronounced?... Just a thought.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

android78 wrote:The following article is an interesting read:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... ps-faceoff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks like the xbox version is better in pretty much every way, including 3D.
I don't think it really makes any difference the resolution that the TV detects since all the consoles (well, xbox360 and ps3) have hardware scalers anyway. For example, Halo Reach, the TV detects it as 1080P, but up close, you can see that this isn't the true resolution.
If my TV comes today (and has glasses with it), I think I'll get the xbox version to try out.
Chiefwinston - With the PS3, can you change the screen size on the PS3 (not in the game)? If you can, have you tried setting the screen size SMALLER then the tv is and see if it makes the 3D effect more pronounced?... Just a thought.
You can use the xbox scaller in 3D, i have mine always set to 1080p, when i loaded black ops and enabled 3D it asked me to change to 720P, i said screw you and started the game.
The 3D was all ghosty like and fuzzy.
So i changed to 720P and it worked fine.

The xbox 3D is only half resolution, it CANT be better then PS3, its a fact.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

android78, yeah I'll give it a try. I think it'll be the PC guys that are in for the best experience with this game. You need power more power for crisp high frame rate 3D. Hopefully, the PC version gives them seperation and convergance control.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

PS3 3D, HDMI 1.4 1280x1470 = 1280 x 720 per eye
Image

360 3D, Side by Side 1280x720 = 640x720 per eye
Image

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by android78 »

Thanks for the images.
I'm almost certain that the PS3 version is just using the scaler. If you take the left half the xbox version and double the horizontal resolution, there seems to be the same fidelity as the PS3 version.

ViruzZ - There is a difference between the rendered resolution and the transmission resolution. Even if the PS3 is sending two complete 720P frames, if it's only rendered at half that and the PS3 is upscaling the image before sending it to the television (this way it will comply with the standard HDMI 1.4 frame packing for 3D), it will be no clearer then the 360 version.
Given that the PS3 has lower frame rate then the xbox, I would be surprised if they are able to render more pixels without further issues.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

android78 wrote:Thanks for the images.
I'm almost certain that the PS3 version is just using the scaler. If you take the left half the xbox version and double the horizontal resolution, there seems to be the same fidelity as the PS3 version.

ViruzZ - There is a difference between the rendered resolution and the transmission resolution. Even if the PS3 is sending two complete 720P frames, if it's only rendered at half that and the PS3 is upscaling the image before sending it to the television (this way it will comply with the standard HDMI 1.4 frame packing for 3D), it will be no clearer then the 360 version.
Given that the PS3 has lower frame rate then the xbox, I would be surprised if they are able to render more pixels without further issues.
hmm, i dont care about MP and i already have the 360 and PC version, the PC version is not yet playable with DDD, but even when it will they performance was very low.
I just heard someone with 480 saying in Nvidia vision 3D mode he gets 30-40fps

Maybe ill enjoy the 3D on 360, finish the SP and move on
My game of the year is Fallout NV that looks awesome with DDD, i just wait for more mods and patches to come out before i play

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

Can someone with xbox version test something for me?

I managed to run this game in 1080P, but i have a feeling that the depth and overall 3D effect is very very low in this mode.

Can someone compare this game in 720P and 1080P mode on xbox 360?

Also if you fell that 720P mode is like blurry or oily, like you look through a glass covered with oil??



Thanks

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

android78, I tried to reduce the resolution and screen size. It's a no go. The stereo 3D wouldn't kick in if I messed with it. That Eurogamer article concludes with them saying the 3D isn't worth bothering with. I strongly disagree with that conclusion.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by android78 »

ViruzZ wrote:Can someone with xbox version test something for me?
I managed to run this game in 1080P, but i have a feeling that the depth and overall 3D effect is very very low in this mode.
Can someone compare this game in 720P and 1080P mode on xbox 360?
What happened? Did you take your xbox version back to the store?
Which version (Xbox, ps3 or PC) are you finding the low 3D effect?
I'm guessing that the offsets are actually done by a number of pixels, not percentage of the screen for 3D. This could explain why you would get lower 3D effect when using higher resolution. I have found this with the PC games, if you increase the resolution, you have to increase the separation to get the same effect.
I would think that with the xbox version this probably won't happen since the higher resolution will not be for rendering, but I'm yet to get the game. I didn't have time last night after setting up my new TV.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

android78 wrote:
ViruzZ wrote:Can someone with xbox version test something for me?
I managed to run this game in 1080P, but i have a feeling that the depth and overall 3D effect is very very low in this mode.
Can someone compare this game in 720P and 1080P mode on xbox 360?
What happened? Did you take your xbox version back to the store?
Which version (Xbox, ps3 or PC) are you finding the low 3D effect?
I'm guessing that the offsets are actually done by a number of pixels, not percentage of the screen for 3D. This could explain why you would get lower 3D effect when using higher resolution. I have found this with the PC games, if you increase the resolution, you have to increase the separation to get the same effect.
I would think that with the xbox version this probably won't happen since the higher resolution will not be for rendering, but I'm yet to get the game. I didn't have time last night after setting up my new TV.
Im talking about the xbox version, i want someone else to confirm that im not crazy or something.

The 360 uses upscaling so maybe this is why it looks less 3D?

I wont lie, this game is a bad example for 3D, i played in 720P and its horrible, the already low resolution blurry game is even more low resolution and its like looking through oil

I hope that Killzone 3 will be better or i wasted ton of money buying 3D TV that i wont be using for anything besides blu ray movies and some PC games

Also its almost impossible to use game guides while playing in 3D with glasses

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by PalmerTech »

ViruzZ wrote:i wasted ton of money buying 3D TV that i wont be using for anything besides blu ray movies and some PC games
Sorry you feel that way, I would be glad to take it off your hands! :D

In reality, this is why being an early adopter is not always best for the average consumer. You can play 90% of PC titles out there in 3D, you know! Quite a lot of gameplay!

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

PalmerTech wrote:
ViruzZ wrote:i wasted ton of money buying 3D TV that i wont be using for anything besides blu ray movies and some PC games
Sorry you feel that way, I would be glad to take it off your hands! :D

In reality, this is why being an early adopter is not always best for the average consumer. You can play 90% of PC titles out there in 3D, you know! Quite a lot of gameplay!
yeah you can, its just i like to play latest games so i need to wait for driver updates..
Cant play black ops on PC the 3D is broken.. until DDD updates their driver.

Maybe i just need to move to Nvidia, will make my life easier..

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by KrisRoberts »

I have been playing the single player game in 3D on the pc with the nVidia kit. Except for an occasional frame rate drop I am really happy with the game!

I am also very happy that they support 3D on the xbox and ps3. Having a release like this that has native 3D for consoles is huge.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

KrisRoberts, are you able to adjust convergence and seperation or select different formats with the PC version. I have the PS3 version. And I'm quite the happy gamer right now with this game. But I'm interested in being able to dial that little extra convergence and seperation.

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by ViruzZ »

Chiefwinston wrote:KrisRoberts, are you able to adjust convergence and seperation or select different formats with the PC version. I have the PS3 version. And I'm quite the happy gamer right now with this game. But I'm interested in being able to dial that little extra convergence and seperation.

cheers
the 3D version with DDD driver and its awesome.
You can adjust any parameter you want, you can get the driver for 7 days free trail and if you have ATI video card you can buy it for half price 25$

I also have xbox and PS3, the 3D effect and the overall quality of the console version was unplayable, i played 2 levels on the xbox version and almost puked.
And the PS3 version is even worse because it runs internally at 960x544 resolution..
here is in-depth comparison of 2 versions including 3D:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... ps-faceoff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just hope K3 will be good, because i got my 3D TV right after E3 when reviewers said that K3 looks awesome in 3D..

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Re: Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Chiefwinston »

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Call of Duty: Black Ops - What Are the Ramifications?

Post by Neil »

The following is an excerpt of a blog article.  Read Full Article

Call of Duty: Black Ops

The S-3D Gaming Alliance was featured in the Toronto Star today talking about Call of Duty: Black Ops!  Looking at the media coverage so far, it seems gaming media have taken an about-face towards 3D with its once harshest critics suddenly becoming its biggest fans.


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