MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

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Neil
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MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

Image

While MTBS' gallery has over four thousand pictures and images, it's too cumbersome to have to download pictures before viewing in 3D.  There are a few 3D galleries on the web that don't require this step, but they are usually limited to just one brand or solution.  MTBS is here for everyone, which is why we haven't had a working solution...until now.

Read full article...

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by cybereality »

Very cool.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zloth »

Exceedingly cool! I'm not real eager to download a new web browser just to use this but hopefully an IE solution will show up some day.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

You should give Firefox a try. I've been using it for years, and I find you can do things with it that aren't as readily available in IE. For example, YouTube3D needs Firefox for Nvidia 3D Vision playback (HTML5 support). I don't know if this is possible with IE yet (is it?).

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Neil

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zloth »

It isn't. Though there was a post on the 3D Vision Live NVIDIA forum saying the latest Firefox broke the YouTube videos but that the next update to FireFox should fix that.

So what's the story on space? I've got about 150 PNS images that are 5 to 10 meg each - and that's just from Skyrim. Are you planning to charge for space? Charge by bandwidth used? Maybe you've got a couple of petabytes of space and you figure you'll just let us have at it until those fill up?

What's the policy on the images themselves? Some are pretty obvious (e.g. no posting other people's copyrighted work without express permission of the owner signed in blood and/or PGP) but when it comes to nudity, gore, racist symbolism, and so on it gets.... tricky.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

Hi Zloth,

I wouldn't upload image files that big. There is no need for files that big. Are you using 0 compression in your image settings? If this isn't adjustable, I recommend using stereo photo maker to batch convert the files to something more efficient. Remember to upload images as JPG or PNG, not JPS or PNS. This won't impact the ability to view the images in the gallery in 3D, and will ensure that 2D viewers can still see the pictures.

We don't charge for space or anything like that. Max file size uploads are 1.5MB each. They used to be 7MB, but I don't think people want to upload 3D videos. Do they? I figured YouTube 3D would be more effective for this.

Screen shots and personal images are a-ok. No nudity, racism, devil worship, etc. - that has never had a place here (Geeze, what kind of stuff do you collect, Zloth?!?)

Regards,
Neil

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zloth »

<shrug> You never know what people will find what images 'over the line' on a world wide internet. An image with some nipples showing might be fine in Germany but porn in the USA. Conversely, a game image with a Nazi zombie taking a bite out of your protagonist might be fine in the USA but not go over so well in Germany. And those are two nations with pretty similar cultures! Best to get these things stated right at the start.

1920x1080 PNS files in full color really are that big. The only compression in PNG format is lossless compression. JPS use lossy compression but are about 10% of the size. The difference is hard to see most of the time but, with terabyte hard drives getting cheap and gigabit internet being built, there's been less reason to take even a small hit in quality.

Switching the files over isn't too hard, though. IrfanView can do them in batches.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by cybereality »

1.5MB is too small. If you take pictures with the Nvidia driver, they are PNS and are usually around 5-6MB.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

6 to 7 megabytes per picture is much too big and is unnecessary. Isn't there a setting in the Nvidia config to adjust the image quality and format?

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by cybereality »

I believe Nvidia defaults to PNS, and the only way to change it to JPS (and adjust the quality) is through manually editing the registry. Not a huge deal, I just don't remember the steps off the top my head.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zloth »

Actually, it's the other way around. You have to fiddle with the registry to get the PNS saves to happen. Default is JPS.

There's no such thing as a quality setting for PNG/PNS. It's lossless. Every pixel is saved exactly as is then the resulting bytes are zipped. The only way to make them smaller is to lower the resolution.

JPG/JPS files do some funky fractal things to make a close approximation of your image the compress those bytes. Those do let you change quality. Though, even at 81% quality, I came up with one image that was 1.6 megabytes.

As screen resolutions start going up, file sizes will start going up as well. I'm only running at 1920x1080.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

Sometimes Nvidia does things that make me feel like this...

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEnLlycOn4[/youtube-hd]

What would be a reasonable file size for 1080P JPS images with some compression?

Regards,
Neil

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by cybereality »

Strange. I've never messed with the settings and it saves PNS for me.

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zloth »

Hehe, I knew exactly which bit you were talking about after seeing just 2 seconds of that vid. ;)

If you want to mostly just support JPG/S at 1080p with the PNG/S images reserved for smaller images then 1.5Mb isn't too bad. The image I have that got over that big is a view of a lot of trees in the snow so bunches of whites and blacks with almost no color. It's the kind of image JPG's methods really hate and it's still only barely over at the 80% level of compression. I expect it would be fine at 75%. Still, if you could make it 2Mb, you'll never have to worry about it.

If you want to handle full PNG/S images, though, you're talking more like 11 meg per image. That should also handle huge JPG/S images coming from surround 3D or maybe even those 4K resolution screens.

The StereoImageType registry setting handles the format on NVIDIA. By default it isn't there at all. You've got to put it in and set it to 1 to get the PNS images. Maybe you popped that registry entry in years ago, Cybereality, and forgot about it?

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zerofool »

I found out about the updated gallery few days ago, congrats!

I was just wondering if my suggestion to use sView from January 2011 had any influence on your decision to go with sView (and probably work together with the author), or did you reach to this conclusion alone, after the proper support of 3D Vision and HD3D was implemented? Excuse my curiosity :).
Whatever the case, way to go ;).
Zloth wrote: There's no such thing as a quality setting for PNG/PNS. It's lossless. Every pixel is saved exactly as is then the resulting bytes are zipped. The only way to make them smaller is to lower the resolution.
Yes, but there's a compression level thingie and optional "filters", which rearrange the bits in different ways, to improve compression - still lossless, and is "playable" by all viewers. But that depends on the software you're using to compress in PNG, the simplest ones (like paint) doesn't offer such choice and use the fastest setting. There are programs made only for this purpose - to optimize PNG files size. I've found PNGOUTWin (followed by the free CLI version PNGOUT) to be the best in this regard, but it's SLOW. Nevertheless, you'll be surprised by the difference in filesizes.
Neil wrote:What would be a reasonable file size for 1080P JPS images with some compression?
With that said, I think 3MB would be fine, for both 720p PNG files, and JPGs with 1080p resolution (with high quality).
Neil wrote:They used to be 7MB, but I don't think people want to upload 3D videos. Do they? I figured YouTube 3D would be more effective for this.
I'd definitely love to be able to upload a video on a service that doesn't convert/transcode/recompress it. That's why I don't like YouTube, it degrades the quality of all the clips quite a lot. So if a person knows what they're doing, they can get really high quality video in small files.
There are some services that offer this, but they do not support 3D video, of course :).
Anyways, what I'm saying is that yes, most people will prefer using youtube, but someone like me would be happy to have such an alternative as using the sView player to play the originally uploaded files.
Zloth wrote:I'm not real eager to download a new web browser just to use this but hopefully an IE solution will show up some day.
ANY browser is better than IE - they are faster, use less memory, have much more functions (native spell-checking comes to mind), especially through plug-ins/extensions (like AdBlock and many other essential ones). I personally use Opera, Firefox and Chrome. When one of them gets overcrowded with tabs, I switch to another for regular use, and slowly read and close the tabs of the previous one... but that's just me :). I use IE only in emergencies, when all others are full with tabs, and that has happened only twice so far.
The sView plug-in supports all those non-ActiveX browsers. I tried the gallery with both Opera and Chrome, and they're fine. Now all we need is someone with Safari to confirm that it works as well ;).
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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

Hi Zerofool,

I normally jump at the chance to give credit where credit is due, but in this case, we have been eying this option a long time. We would have done it ages ago, but MTBS was in no state to install the plug-in. All our software was out of date, the server wasn't behaving as we expected, and there were more bugs than you can throw a fly swatter at! :D

Once we got this cleaned it, we were able to look at this more seriously again. More enhancements to come, by the way!

I'll work to adjust the file sizes shortly.

Regards,
Neil

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zerofool »

Neil wrote:I normally jump at the chance to give credit where credit is due, but in this case, we have been eying this option a long time. We would have done it ages ago, but MTBS was in no state to install the plug-in.
Sure, I hope I didn't sound needy or anything :D. I was just wondering if you guys even saw my post, because I didn't receive any answer from anybody from the MTBS3D team back then.
Neil wrote:More enhancements to come, by the way!

I'll work to adjust the file sizes shortly.
Great to hear that.

What do you think about my suggestions about the gallery I posted here?

Cheers!
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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

This could be interesting. Let me see what we can do. The software for the forum is completely different. I wonder if a plug-in is possible for that purpose too. We will discuss!

Yes, we can adjust the gallery template too. Sorry if I missed your post earlier, it wasn't intentional.

Regards,
Neil

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Re: MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Zerofool »

Neil wrote:This could be interesting. Let me see what we can do. The software for the forum is completely different. I wonder if a plug-in is possible for that purpose too. We will discuss!

Yes, we can adjust the gallery template too.
Awesome!
Neil wrote:Sorry if I missed your post earlier, it wasn't intentional.
No problem, the important thing is that the new gallery is up and running now!
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MTBS' New 3D Gallery!

Post by Neil »

The following is an excerpt of a blog article.  Read Full Article

[caption id="attachment_16406" align="alignnone" width="489"]MTBS' New 3D Gallery!MTBS' New 3D Gallery![/caption]While MTBS' gallery has over four thousand pictures and images, it's too cumbersome to have to download pictures before viewing in 3D.  There are a few 3D galleries on the web that don't require this step, but they are usually limited to just one brand or solution.  MTBS is here for everyone, which is why we haven't had a working solution…until now.


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