Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

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FinalFoxX
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Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by FinalFoxX »

Sorry, if this has asked before. I've found a number of issues with Windows 10, but not in this particular area. Here's the issue:

Everything works... once it installs the latest NVidia drivers, the 3D drivers, and the quick setup... it works flawlessly. But, restart and... it doesn't work on games (works on 3 pictures and testing though) and requires an other installation of the drivers and setup for it to work again.

Has anyone ran into this issue before? I've turned off Win10 update and the issue is still present. Thanks for any feedback!

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by schwing »

    What graphics driver version are you installing? If 430.39 or later, then what method did you use to get 3D Vision working (3D Fix Manager, BringBack3DV, etc.)? Or if so, have you not used one of these methods to get 3D Vision working? They're required in this scenario to get games to show up in 3D.
Last edited by schwing on Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Win 10 v1909 / 1x Nvidia 980Ti GPU (v452.22, 1080p)

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by bo3bber »

Yeah, that sounds like you are missing the famous Schwing hack to keep drivers running past 430.39. UE4 games in particular will simply crash at launch without it.


It doesn't seem like anyone is interested, but the beta_driver branch of HelixVision has pioneered a new approach for driver hacking that is plug-n-play. It still uses the Schwing hack, but only applies it on a per-game basis, so you don't have to do anything except click Play3D or PlayInVR in the UI.

PaulDusler and I have been working out the bugs, and it seems to work pretty well. He will make this the default approach for an upcoming 3DFM update as well, but also keep the global driver fix for cases where it's not possible to run a changed 3Dmigoto in a game.


@Schwing: Thanks again for the killer work on finding the workaround for the driver. We would be in dire straits by now.

After digging into the guts of it a bit- I believe that the branch instruction that you found is somehow related to the 3D on/off setting in Windows itself. The nvwgf2umx.dll is how the OS figures out the capabilities of the card itself. The driver is provided by nvidia, but the requests and design of the dll is Microsoft. It figures out what all features are available, including 3D I think.

My best guess at the moment is that Windows 1903 and above knew that Nvidia canceled 3D Vision, and use some sort of version as the decision to not show the 3D button in their UI.

Not sure of course, just passing along, and writing down some research.

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by schwing »

    For the dll, I checked Microsoft's methods of detecting what OS it is and that doesn't seem to be it from what I can tell. I could be wrong or they're using some other way, but I haven't been able to figure out if it's a 3DV flag or what. I had been looking into DX12 stereo since that doesn't work on passive screens for me.

    For Windows 10's Settings app, I tried regedit in the 3DV portion, regedit in the graphics card portion, or somehow flipping the value in Settings's memory. Nothing so far, and I'm not sure if the flag is even there anymore. I saw in Shadow of the Tomb Raider that the method for checking for 3DV displays might be a reason why, but nothing added up. It's complicated work, so I will likely focus on DX12 stereo more before I come back to DX11's. I suspect that the fix might involve the root cause for DX11 stereo being broken anyway.
Win 10 v1909 / 1x Nvidia 980Ti GPU (v452.22, 1080p)

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by bo3bber »

It is indeed complicated to reverse engineer this hunk of code, especially as it's not well documented.

I think the 3D flag in the OS still exists on 1903, because when I run driver 425.31, I still see the flag in their UI. I don't know that I looked on later versions.

The version checking in the DLL doesn't solely use the registry versions, it also calls out to ntdll.dll for RtlGetVersion. It bypasses the normal GetVersion call for this hidden one. It doesn't seem to use registry for that, but I'm not sure where it gets the number. I used APImonitor to watch all the calls in nvwgf2um and it's definitely some sort of feature/hardware checking/lookup including for DX12 support. When I get a chance, I'm going to hook the RtlGetVersion also and lie about the OS version and see what happens.

There is some driver level documentation about the OpenAdapter12 calls, but I found the older OpenAdapter10 documentation easier to find. It's documentation for someone like NVidia or Intel to make their own dll.

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by FinalFoxX »

schwing wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:43 am     For the dll, I checked Microsoft's methods of detecting what OS it is and that doesn't seem to be it from what I can tell. I could be wrong or they're using some other way, but I haven't been able to figure out if it's a 3DV flag or what. I had been looking into DX12 stereo since that doesn't work on passive screens for me.

    For Windows 10's Settings app, I tried regedit in the 3DV portion, regedit in the graphics card portion, or somehow flipping the value in Settings's memory. Nothing so far, and I'm not sure if the flag is even there anymore. I saw in Shadow of the Tomb Raider that the method for checking for 3DV displays might be a reason why, but nothing added up. It's complicated work, so I will likely focus on DX12 stereo more before I come back to DX11's. I suspect that the fix might involve the root cause for DX11 stereo being broken anyway.
Thanks for the awesome replies. Sorry for being a bit late, but yes, I use 3D Fix method. Launch the program, it asks to install 446.14+ and then the ***DHC*** drivers... and then I punch quick setup. Baddah bing... it works.

Am I stuck at a certain version?

I'm playing Bloodstained and Code Vein, both are ue4, right? They launch fine without the fresh driver install, but it's in 2d and if you press CTRL+T, the NVIDIA box flickers and the glasses do nothing, as it stays in 2d. The NVIDIA control panel locks the framerate for the monitor at 60 and stereo is indeed turned on, but natta... until I reinstall the drivers. Something's gotta be happening on restart, right?

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by helifax »

This is a bit strange...
I am on Win 10 Pro (1909) with the latest DCH drivers (both on my desktop and laptop) and I have no issues starting 3DVision using 3DFM after any reboot, nor do I need to reinstall drivers.
I know this sounds silly, but have you tried using DDU and reinstalling from scratch? (Sorry, if you posted that you already tried it).
I'm using GFE + Latest drivers + 3DFM for enabling 3D Vision and I don't have any issue... (except not being able to take 3D screenshots...grrr).

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by FinalFoxX »

helifax wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:37 pm This is a bit strange...
I am on Win 10 Pro (1909) with the latest DCH drivers (both on my desktop and laptop) and I have no issues starting 3DVision using 3DFM after any reboot, nor do I need to reinstall drivers.
I know this sounds silly, but have you tried using DDU and reinstalling from scratch? (Sorry, if you posted that you already tried it).
I'm using GFE + Latest drivers + 3DFM for enabling 3D Vision and I don't have any issue... (except not being able to take 3D screenshots...grrr).

Cheers,
Helifax
That does tell me it must either be my software or hardware or windows version. If I had to guess on software... it either have to be DWS from Majorgeeks.com, Armorcrate from ASUS, 2004 version of windows, or the bloatware removal powershell method from here. Short of a reformat. I got nothin.

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by WickedScav »

I had a similar issue with 1909 and the last official nvidia 3DV drivers whenever I started SotTR, I had to reinstall the drivers again after the next reboot. But this only happened with SotTR and I am not using 3DFM.

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by petethecato »

How is Windows Breaking my 3DTV Play?

Win 10 20H2 / Geforce 760 / 3DTV Play / Samsung 3D TV. 425.31 drivers

Enabling Stereovision(3DTV) in NV CP works right after fresh 425.31 install. Tried in multiple games.
After a reboot it stops working.
I noticed that my Windows detects when Stereovision is enabled in NV CP, and at that point forces the video card to use 3DTV resolutions ONLY!!! even in the Desktop (720p 60 and 1080 24) (This is the 3D Display Mode Setting in the Multi-monitor section of the Display Settings)
At this point, 3DTV still works in NV Test, but no longer in games.

Driver reinstall clears the issue until next reboot.
How is Windows Breaking my 3DTV Play?

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by Robert256 »

It could well be that your Win10 is updating the drivers automatically. My Win10 20H2 started doing that about two months ago. You can set a policy to prevent driver updates.

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by Chtiblue »

Best solution I found, thanks to Kaimaista, is this one check answer 34 because it only prevent graphic driver updates not all drivers updates:

https://superuser.com/questions/964475/ ... ics-driver

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by petethecato »

Chtiblue wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:21 pm Best solution I found, thanks to Kaimaista, is this one check answer 34 because it only prevent graphic driver updates not all drivers updates:

https://superuser.com/questions/964475/ ... ics-driver
Thank you both for the suggestion. I have also been fighting the automatic update and the solution looks promising. The automatic update thought happens without a reboot which makes it also very frustrating.

However, what I was trying to report originally is that even if I do a clean install with the computer offline and keep it offline, the reboot breaks the stereovision with 425 drivers. Same drivers.

Ironically, the automatic update has now pushed me in a different direction, I landed on the 452. version of the drivers leveraging the 3DFix support for it. Seems as if Windows likes 452 better than 425 and so far has not updated it. So far I had to reboot once after a crash and stereovision survived. So I am going to try the suggested method to prevent any further updates and will more carefully test if on this 452 driver the stereovision survives a reboot.

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by Guig2000 »

Hello,
I use it it worked fine: even with the 452.06, windows wanted to install a new nvidia driver, i downloaded the "wushowhide.diagcab" executed it and prevented the driver to install back. Unfortunately, Microsoft seem to have remove the utility, I wanted to check something and I got an error 404 when trying to dl it again. I hope we will not need it soon, or someone saved it on his computer. Especially that the setting that should exclude drivers from windows update don't seems to have any affect.
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by SnickerSnack1 »

So I tried to game yesterday and discovered that Windows somehow updated the driver even though I thought I had disabled that in the past. I spent an hour trying to get back to a playable condition with 452 version. Tonight I left my PC alone for a few hours and when I came back, I noticed some window positions had changed. Sure enough, Windows went and found version 456.71 and decided arbitrarily to install it without my permission. I am furious that this stupid crap keeps happening and Windows keeps trying to force updates. I get it... SAAS.. I only have a license to use their product.. but THEIR ownership stops at the software level. I should have control over the physical property that I OWN and should have a say in what happens to it. GAAAAH! :evil:

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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by Guig2000 »

As i said before, I was able to use this method just in time in order to prevent v456.71 to auto-install. And unfortunately, the link to the tool is now broken.

source: https://superuser.com/questions/964475/ ... ics-driver

+ Also the system properties method:
This PC -> right click -> properties ->advanced system prorerties\system\hardware\Device installation settings method --> tick no
As no effect anymore or whatever not on nvidia driver.
+Other method:
In Windows 10 (Version 1607 - Redstone - Anniversary Update), you can now set a group policy to not install driver updates by default.
-via gpedit (win 10 pro)
open run command (press windows+r keys) launch gpedit.msc --> computer configuration\Administrative templates\windows compounds\windows update --> enable do not include driver with windows update .
-via registry:
Windows 10 Home users can disable it by creating a 32Bit DWORD called ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate (and under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate if you use a 64Bit Windows 10) and set the value ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate
I think it don't work anymore neither, but I'm not sure.

==> this two methods attempt to block any driver update via windows update, so if it works, you will have to update your drivers manually (CPU, southbridge, sound, net, etc).


I found some other way, to be tested:
The goal is to bloc any driver update for a specific device.

One can block Windows Update from updating one particular device. The procedure below will block updates for all versions of the driver, present and future. The accepted answer will only block one particular version and has to be re-executed every time a new driver version comes out on Windows Update, which is not very practical since we will find about it too late, when the device stops working.

Step 1 : Find device hardware ID

In Device Manager, right-click on the device, choose Properties, then in the Details tab set Property to Hardware Ids and copy the displayed id.

Step 2 : Install your driver

Disconnect the computer from the Internet, go again into Device Manager, uninstall the driver installed by Windows and install your own. Reboot, and ensure that the driver stays as installed.

Step 3 : Block driver update for that device

Run gpedit.msc
Go to Local Computer Policy → Computer Configuration → Administrative Templates → System → Device Installation → Device Installation Restrictions
Double-click on Prevent installation of devices that match any of these device IDs and set it to Enabled.
Click the Show button to launch the dialog titled "Prevent installation of devices that match any of these Device IDs".
Paste into Value the copied hardware-id for the device.
Click OK until finished.

Step 4 : Finishing

Reconnect the computer to the Internet. Verify from time to time that the driver has not changed (this should not happen unless Microsoft manages to break this option).

Image

For Windows 10 Home users who do not have gpedit.msc, you might try to do this manipulation on another computer, not Home, then export and import the policy to the Home computer from the registry key

HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions

See this answer for more information.

Or you may try to use the program Policy Plus, which is a Local Group Policy Editor for all Windows editions. See this article for more information.
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by Losti »

Guig2000 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:33 pm As i said before, I was able to use this method just in time in order to prevent v456.71 to auto-install. And unfortunately, the link to the tool is now broken.

source: https://superuser.com/questions/964475/ ... ics-driver

+ Also the system properties method:
This PC -> right click -> properties ->advanced system prorerties\system\hardware\Device installation settings method --> tick no
As no effect anymore or whatever not on nvidia driver.
+Other method:
In Windows 10 (Version 1607 - Redstone - Anniversary Update), you can now set a group policy to not install driver updates by default.
-via gpedit (win 10 pro)
open run command (press windows+r keys) launch gpedit.msc --> computer configuration\Administrative templates\windows compounds\windows update --> enable do not include driver with windows update .
-via registry:
Windows 10 Home users can disable it by creating a 32Bit DWORD called ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate (and under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate if you use a 64Bit Windows 10) and set the value ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate
I think it don't work anymore neither, but I'm not sure.

==> this two methods attempt to block any driver update via windows update, so if it works, you will have to update your drivers manually (CPU, southbridge, sound, net, etc).


I found some other way, to be tested:
The goal is to bloc any driver update for a specific device.

One can block Windows Update from updating one particular device. The procedure below will block updates for all versions of the driver, present and future. The accepted answer will only block one particular version and has to be re-executed every time a new driver version comes out on Windows Update, which is not very practical since we will find about it too late, when the device stops working.

Step 1 : Find device hardware ID

In Device Manager, right-click on the device, choose Properties, then in the Details tab set Property to Hardware Ids and copy the displayed id.

Step 2 : Install your driver

Disconnect the computer from the Internet, go again into Device Manager, uninstall the driver installed by Windows and install your own. Reboot, and ensure that the driver stays as installed.

Step 3 : Block driver update for that device

Run gpedit.msc
Go to Local Computer Policy → Computer Configuration → Administrative Templates → System → Device Installation → Device Installation Restrictions
Double-click on Prevent installation of devices that match any of these device IDs and set it to Enabled.
Click the Show button to launch the dialog titled "Prevent installation of devices that match any of these Device IDs".
Paste into Value the copied hardware-id for the device.
Click OK until finished.

Step 4 : Finishing

Reconnect the computer to the Internet. Verify from time to time that the driver has not changed (this should not happen unless Microsoft manages to break this option).

For Windows 10 Home users who do not have gpedit.msc, you might try to do this manipulation on another computer, not Home, then export and import the policy to the Home computer from the registry key

HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions

See this answer for more information.

Or you may try to use the program Policy Plus, which is a Local Group Policy Editor for all Windows editions. See this article for more information.






I have used this method to prevent driver updates and i run into big issues installing ANY driver for my GPU, no matter what tool i use or if i have done it manually. THIS Method prevents ANY driver installation on the device!!!

after an odyssey of tries i have tracked this down. DO NOT USE this method, if you want to change your driver sometimes revert the changes before!

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Guig2000
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by Guig2000 »

Hello, the official Microsoft download link for "wushowhide.diagcab" (the utility that allow to hide updates like drivers) is still broken.
So I found it on the net, so I added the file attached in this message.

In order to use it
1°) install properly the nvidia driver you want to use.
2°) When done, immediately run the utility after reboot, it will detect updates that windows want to install. Choose to hide the nvidia driver update.

Operation will have to be redone each time microsoft integrate a new nvidia driver onto windows update or you upgrade windows to a newer version ( ie from windows 10 19.9 to windows 10 20.h2). Fortunately, this happens quite rarely.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by 3DNovice »

I use SledgeHammer, it will block all updates. It was recommended by someone else here.
You can easily choose and select any updates you want to install.
https://www.ghacks.net/2019/04/28/contr ... er-script/

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