Avatar - Gateway to a new world

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metalqueen
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Avatar - Gateway to a new world

Post by metalqueen »

Avatar - Gateway to a new world
James Cameron's long-awaited 3D science-fiction epic Avatar opens this month. Geoffrey Macnab recounts the Titanic director's long struggle to make it, and asks whether the film will revolutionise cinema

At the Las Vegas trade event ShoWest in 2005, the film directors James Cameron, George Lucas, Robert Zemeckis, Robert Rodriguez and Randal Kleiser all appeared on stage together in 3D specs. These titans of the US film industry were there to herald what they were confidently predicting would be the next big revolution in cinema – a revolution that might even have the transformative powers of the birth of the talkie in Hollywood in the late 1920s... namely 3D.

Nearly five years on, that revolution may at last be in sight. This month sees the release of James Cameron's Avatar, the movie that advance hype suggests is supposed to change our filmgoing experience forever. Fourteen years in the making, boasting almost 3,000 effects shots and costing (it has been claimed in some quarters) as much as $300m, the film – the publicity tells us – will take us "to a spectacular world beyond our imagination". Avatar is being billed by Fox as "a fully immersive cinematic experience of a new kind, where the revolutionary technology invented to make the film disappears into the emotion of the characters and the sweep of the story".
Read the whole story here: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 33691.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Gae43
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Re: Avatar - Gateway to a new world

Post by Gae43 »

There's an interesting comment here......
When you shoot at 24 frames a second and show fast lateral movement, the image will appear to be jumpy. With 3D, shooting with two cameras, this problem is compounded. Film-makers need to slow down the pace, shoot at a higher frame rate, or risk their audiences feeling nauseous.
I was just thinking this the other day while I was viewing the over/under 3D trailer of "Call of the Wild". The 3D depth looked great, but the cuts between scenes were so fast that my eyes had hardly any time to focus on the 3D image before the next scene came in. So I found myself constantly battling to re-focus throughout the trailer and the end result was that I felt fatigued. If we think about it, in 2D we use both eyes to focus on one flat image and so we can cope to a degree with fast editing etc but with 3D, things become much more complex. Each eye is not only having to focus on a seperate image, but our brain needs time to interprete the two seperate images, decode them and then fuse them together to perceive the 3D depth....IMO, I think more time is required for this process to occur comfortably. Add to that the fact that we want to linger longer on the 3D eye candy before a change of scene and my advice to future 3D film makers is this.......slow down the editing!! :shutter

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GordoSan
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Re: Avatar - Gateway to a new world

Post by GordoSan »

Gae43 wrote:There's an interesting comment here......
When you shoot at 24 frames a second and show fast lateral movement, the image will appear to be jumpy. With 3D, shooting with two cameras, this problem is compounded. Film-makers need to slow down the pace, shoot at a higher frame rate, or risk their audiences feeling nauseous.
I was just thinking this the other day while I was viewing the over/under 3D trailer of "Call of the Wild". The 3D depth looked great, but the cuts between scenes were so fast that my eyes had hardly any time to focus on the 3D image before the next scene came in. So I found myself constantly battling to re-focus throughout the trailer and the end result was that I felt fatigued. If we think about it, in 2D we use both eyes to focus on one flat image and so we can cope to a degree with fast editing etc but with 3D, things become much more complex. Each eye is not only having to focus on a seperate image, but our brain needs time to interprete the two seperate images, decode them and then fuse them together to perceive the 3D depth....IMO, I think more time is required for this process to occur comfortably. Add to that the fact that we want to linger longer on the 3D eye candy before a change of scene and my advice to future 3D film makers is this.......slow down the editing!! :shutter

Gae43
this is something I have also been thinking about lately. Due to the high cost of animated films and FX-driven 3D movies, I don't see 48fps or 60fps happenning any time soon. the render time is already doubled for 24fps 3D. When Cameron was asked why he didn't shoot 48fps, he stated that he was already pushing enough new frontiers, and even though he has always stated that higher framerate > higher resolution, it would have to wait (mentioned sequel half-jokingly) .

Anyway, there has been new technology in home theater displays lately called motion interpolation or frame interpolation. This is a way of tweening frames between the frames in order to reduce judder. Now this has been controversial, to say the least, but lets look at what it is about the image that has puriststs so heated. Most common complaints that movie purists seem to make is that it makes the image looks "video-y", meaning less like the film would look in a theater, and more like HD video. Some of those same purists seem to state that "sports look great with interpolation". Well, I think that I can boil this down to the fact that the 24fps "film look" is not something we need to hold on to with 3D. In fact, its proven to be the opposite, where any percieved judder takes us out of the experience, and as mentioned, makes our brains work harder to see the 3D image in motion.

I'm pretty certain that frame interpolation will be a must for future 3D displays. I'm not certain if interpolated 3D is in the current spec for any of the current 120Hz displays that do this (that are also 3D compatible) Logic tells me that it would take twice the processing power, since it is 2 different sets of 3D images getting the treatment. Doing the standard interpolation would obviously ruin the 3D image. I suppose that we will hear more about this soon, as 3D-ready HDTVs are gaining ground.

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Re: Avatar - Gateway to a new world

Post by cybereality »

Interpolation is the last thing we need for 3D films. I have seen some of this interpolation in person and it is barely noticeable. Its not some revolutionary process. But more importantly, I don't think it could work for 3D. In 3D you would be allowing a computer chip to generic the in-between frames. This might be passable in 2D but not in 3D. Since you have two frames you have to hope the algorithm will work perfectly and produce stereoscopically accurate interpolation. I think thats too much to ask when the process barely works for 2D footage. The films should be shown as the director intended.

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Re: Avatar - Gateway to a new world

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cybereality wrote:Interpolation is the last thing we need for 3D films. I have seen some of this interpolation in person and it is barely noticeable. Its not some revolutionary process. But more importantly, I don't think it could work for 3D. In 3D you would be allowing a computer chip to generic the in-between frames. This might be passable in 2D but not in 3D. Since you have two frames you have to hope the algorithm will work perfectly and produce stereoscopically accurate interpolation. I think thats too much to ask when the process barely works for 2D footage. The films should be shown as the director intended.
I hear that there are verying degrees of interpolation to get to 120Hz, and a lot of displays handle it differently. I haven't seen it myself, but it seems it looks different enough to piss a lot of film buffs off. I disagree that it can't be done for 3D. Of course, you would have to have a setting to turn the feature on just for 3D, but there is no reason that it couldn't have double the processing power and skip frames for split processing. Normally I would agree with you about what the director intended, but like I said before, I think that the 24fps look does nothing but hamper the 3D effect. I would bet that most directors would agree with that, but who knows?

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Re: Avatar - Gateway to a new world

Post by Likay »

If the basemoviefps is 24Hz and you interpolate it up to a higher frequency you need to filter the "inbetween" frames to "morph" between two baseframes. This definitely means that those screens will be blurry and therefore i agree with cybereality that trying to interpolate more fps should be avoided to any cost. The interpolation itself can also very well interfere with stereoperception and actually partly ruin the experience. If higher fps is desired, then record with higher fps, simple as that. No decent way around. And of course it's also about new standards for 3d. Those we have today are unfortunately limited but will hopefully change in a soon future.
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Re: Avatar - Gateway to a new world

Post by crim3 »

Stereo-3D at high frame rates is so solid and vivid that 3D movies will follow that path naturally with time.
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