Guide for Beginners - Tutorial!

Don't know the first thing about S-3D? Just bought your first pair of 3D glasses? Trying to figure out what to buy? Post HERE!
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LukePC1
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Guide for Beginners - Tutorial!

Post by LukePC1 »

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, Hello guests, Hello newcomers (one eyed hopefuls :-))
I want to write a guide for the basics of S-3D, its problems and the available techniques.
I wrote this guide in Germanbefore and hope I get the facts right in English, too :wink:

If you are new to S-3D and don't know, what to expect, you could look HERE!

1) What is stereoscopic view?
Stereoscopic vision could be compared to stereo Sound. Your brain combines two similar pictures, but from different angle to a 3D picture, which reaches from far bejond the Screen to a place between the screen and your eyes.

2) How can I get S-3D on my Computer or TV?
Basically you need 2 slightly different pictures. Each of them has to get to one of your Eyes. If the pictures are not separated clean, if you see the wrong picture with an eye, that's called 'ghosting' or 'crosstalk'.

3) Common methods to acquire S-3D at home:

3.1) X-Eyed
With a little training you can view side by side pictures with cross-eyed (x-eyed) view. It's cheap and no gadgets are needed - just a 'little' training. The downside is, you need a lot of space to display those pictures, so you get reduced resolution. This viewing-type feels uncomfortable when using it too long (eyestrain!).

3.2) Anaglyph
Red/Cyan or different coloured anaglyph glasses are one of the first and most well known method to separate the pictures. It is quite cheap and works for normal LCD as well. The downside is, that you get bad - or not any - colours. It's a little like black&white displays.


3.3) Shutterglasses (since about 1999)
Shutterglasses work best with high refresh rate. 100 or 120 hz should provide an acceptable refresh rate/no noticeable flickering.
They work by blanking out one of the eyes and then the other one again and so on. Because one of the eyes is always shutted, you get a darker picture. Additionally you get halved refresh rate/eye. 120hz 3D are comparable to 60hz 2D.
They work with CRTs, with some DLP projectors (85hz and more) or the new DLP TV's with 3D ready.

-->CRT's have some ghosting because the phosphors on the screen shines longer than a picture is displayed. So the wrong eye sees the picture, too.

-->DLP doesn't 'ghost', because the light is projected directly on the wall and there is no delay or ghosting. Shutterglasses need to run reversed on a DLP-projector. Optional you could wear them upside down, to swap the time, when which eye is 'closed'.

3.4) Polarized glasses
Polarizer glasses are also a nice method to separate the two rendered Pictures for S-3D. You don't need active glasses like shutterglasses, so the glasses can be light and well looking (cool 8) ).
If you use linear polarized glasses (at an angle of 45° and 135° preferable) and lean your head to the side you'll get worse ghosting. If you hold your head straight, the ghosting is mainly dependent on e.g. the Screen (passive polarized Projectors) or the glasses.

--> passive polarized Projectors are quite expensive and lack good drivers (only old NVIDIA in the moment). They need only cheap polarized glasses, so they are good for a 'big' cinema. Iz3D has anounced a driver new driver for them, so they aren't worthless afterall.

--> the IZ3D monitor works with a polarized front-Panel. They have their own drivers, which work with Vista & Post-Processing & All types of graphics cards!!!
You get full resolution of 1680x1050, but a little tinting, which shall be corrected with new glasses.

--> Zalman builds a interlaced, polarized 3D display based on the new (and old) NVIDIA drivers. Interlaced is when the even rows show picture 1 and the other ones picture 2. This method reduces resolution, but is easy to implement!

-->Compare the IZ3D to the Zalman!

-->Tardis or Planar style
Is built out of 2 similar (if possible identical) LCD panels and a half transparent mirror. It works with Polarizers and 'works' with the old NVIDIA drivers - see below. There is also some more info at 3.6)

3.5) Videoglasses or Head-Mounted-Display (HMD)
Videoglasses have a small screen for each eye and special optics directly in front of the eyes. Its supposed tho have a little 'narrow' field of view (fov), and lacks resolution, but it has ZERO crosstalk or 'ghosting'.
--> TDVisor – they will be the first to sell HD HMD’s for a decent price
--> Z800 - 800x600; OLED displays, so power saving; Lack of support
--> VR920 - only 640x480, but relatively cheap; It has a special wrapper to enable 3D

3.6) Dual Monitors or Mirror 3D

If you have 2 similar monitors (same size, similar appearence), you could use them to create a stereo 3D image. One monitor is for the left eye and one for the right eye. This works with the old NVIDIA driver for gf7 and lower or the Iz3D driver 1.8 (not mirrored) or 1.9.
Cheapest way is to look crosseyed (x-eyed) at them. This requires some skill and is realy hard on the eyes - especially with big monitors. Maybe it's ok with 15 or 17".
Second is, the mirored thing. You need a normal mirror for it. If you're interested check it out. The guide has very nice pictures. This method has a fixed head position, because the head has to be very near to the mirror.

(may I insert them here? I'm not shure, if that's legal...)

Third and best is the Planar style. It uses a half transmissive mirror, so you can see both screens from nearly any position. It's used with polarized glasses. The tricky thing is, to use the right monitors. You should take a pair of LCD's which are polarized at 45° or 135°. You could check in a shop, if you take the glasses with you and one eye is completly black when watching at the screen.
The angle is important, because it has to be mirrored and to be 90° rotated afterwards.
The wrong Screens or LCD's which are polarized at 0° or 90°, because the polarization doesn't change when mirrored!









4) Where to get the drivers?
In the MTBS3D.com download-section are usually some of the most recently released drivers ready for download.

4.1) Old NVIDIA driver e.g. 94.42 or 162.xx combos
old driver for Shutterglasses from about 2000 with little new features and little compatibility.
limitations:
- Only NVIDIA cards
- Sometimes no dual/Multicore --> BSOD; Crash
- Problems with all kind of post processing
- No series 8 support!!!, so the fastest working card is the 7900GTX!
- not for Windows Vista and 64 bit!
--> Tips: Make sure you have servicepack 2 installed; Disable Vsync in the Nvidia control panel, to get less problems with synchronisation (flashing or white 'blibs' with shutterglasses)

Old Nvidia 3D driver install guide:
http://www.3d.wep.dk/driverguide.html


4.2) New NVIDIA driver since April 2008
The new driver since 169.xx is a update of the older one. It has better compatibility for the series 8 and 9, but doesn't work very good with postprocessing for now. The bad news is, that it is Vista ONLY! And that it only supports the Zalman Trimon (in interlaced) and anaglyph mode (red/cyan) which is kind of a demo for the driver and the Zalman monitor.


4.3) IZ3D (I see 3D) Drivers

IZ3D (I - see - three - D)
First and best working Driver from 2007/2008. Specially designed for the IZ3D monitor, but since 1.07 it supports anaglyph mode as well. IZ3D (I see 3D) is adding support for other solutions as well.
It works with
- All (or nearly all) graphic cards. Mostly NVIDIA and ATI
- It supports post processing
- It supports multicore



5) Free Programs and related links:
Stereo-Photomaker
http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/stphmkr/index.html
--> combines Pictures (photos) in quite an easy way and has many supported modes - but maybe NOT IZ3D.

Stereoscopic Player
http://www.3dtv.at/Products/Player/Editions_en.aspx
--> Movie player to watch S-3D clips made by other user or S-3D DVD's. It needs quite a lot of performance.

I hope I included most necessary Information for beginners.
I don't have any time left right now, but I'll try to add missing parts with the edit function.

I hope you enjoyed reading and didn't stumble about too many mistakes.

By LukePC

Advanced Guide 'Adjustment'
- for people with a S-3D solution...

Quick/cheap 3D start:
http://www.3d.wep.dk/quick.html



Optimizing eDim shutterglasses and CRT:
http://mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1045

Optimizing red/blue glasses 3D:
set monitor color temp to 5000K
adjust the 3D to that the distant objects are separated by no more than 1-2 cm because otherwise there will be ghosting.

Red/blue 3D - crosseyed pic through glasses

Image


eDim shutter glasses 3D - crosseyed pic through glasses:


Image




important:
When You have installed the 3D driver and starts a game and turn on the 3D - YOU NEED TO ADJUST IT.
This is done by:

Nvidia 3D driver:
CTRL and T : activates 3D
CTRL and F3/F4 : separation
CTRL and F5/F6 : convergence
CTRL and F7 : save settings for 3D

iZ3D 3D driver:
(use the numpad keys)
* : activates 3D
+/- : separation
Shift and +/- : convergence

Basic adjustment:

Adjust so that distant objects in the game (like a churchtower or the clouds) are separated onscreen by 1-2 cm and close objects in the game (like the steering wheel/scope on the rifle) are not separated onscreen.

If You want more realistic 3D: increase the onscreen separating on distant objects to 6-8 cm (the distance between Your eyes basicly).
If You want more popout: adjust so the objects that are further away in the gameworld (like another soldier besides You/the car infront of Your car) is shown without onscreen separation.
I often take off my 3D glasses to adjust because the I can clearly see the onscreen separation on distant/closeup objects in the gameworld.

Sometimes You need to adjust a little more back/forth to be able to use the HUD/crosshair/gun sights etc. and sometimes the crosshair is just unusable in 3D. Basicly You need to adjust the 3D everytime You start the game. But it's easy.

Added by Freke1

Comment: You could save 3D with crtl+ F7 with NVIDIA
Last edited by LukePC1 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:28 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Post by Neil »

Keep at it.

In fact, I want to set up a proper guide section on the site. I have some ideas on this.

Regards,
Neil

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Post by LukePC1 »

Well maybe you can get inspiration from my guide *g*
Or you simply add the things, you think are missing. I think as an administrator, you should be able to do so :D
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Post by sharky »

i set it sticky until we have a proper guide

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Post by LukePC1 »

Come on guys... I need some consturctive critic, so I can add the things wich are missing...

For those one eyed hopefulls, who read the post:
was it understandable? Where do you need more Information?

PS: just updated a little and corrected some spelling errors...
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Post by Freke1 »

Maybe You can use some of this?

Quick/cheap 3D start:
http://www.3d.wep.dk/quick.html

Old Nvidia 3D driver install guide:
http://www.3d.wep.dk/driverguide.html

Optimizing eDim shutterglasses and CRT:
http://mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1045

Optimizing red/blue glasses 3D:
set monitor color temp to 5000K
adjust the 3D to that the distant objects are separated by no more than 1-2 cm because otherwise there will be ghosting.

Red/blue 3D - crosseyed pic through glasses
Image

eDim shutter glasses 3D - crosseyed pic through glasses:
Image

important:
When You have installed the 3D driver and starts a game and turn on the 3D - YOU NEED TO ADJUST IT.
This is done by:

Nvidia 3D driver:
CTRL and T : activates 3D
CTRL and F3/F4 : separation
CTRL and F5/F6 : convergence

iZ3D 3D driver:
(use the numpad keys)
* : activates 3D
+/- : separation
Shift and +/- : convergence

Basic adjustment:
Adjust so that distant objects in the game (like a churchtower or the clouds) are separated onscreen by 1-2 cm and close objects in the game (like the steering wheel/scope on the rifle) are not separated onscreen.

If You want more realistic 3D: increase the onscreen separating on distant objects to 6-8 cm (the distance between Your eyes basicly).
If You want more popout: adjust so the objects that are further away in the gameworld (like another soldier besides You/the car infront of Your car) is shown without onscreen separation.
I often take off my 3D glasses to adjust because the I can clearly see the onscreen separation on distant/closeup objects in the gameworld.

Sometimes You need to adjust a little more back/forth to be able to use the HUD/crosshair/gun sights etc. and sometimes the crosshair is just unusable in 3D. Basicly You need to adjust the 3D everytime You start the game. But it's easy.

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Post by LukePC1 »

Thanks for your input.
I copied it and added a Heading and bold writing .

I'm not 100% sure, bat can't you save 3D with crtl+F7???

Maybe if someone has Ideas regarding input or design/order please post here...

edit: it's a lot of work to add the pics... I should have quoted you :P
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Post by nubie »

Maybe add some blank lines between sections, and some numbers or list * to the types: (Edit: subheadings should be larger: Common methods to acquire S-3D at home:, and the type of display should be in bold, that way it is easy to parse for the infos you need)

Section 1:

Bla blab blah, end


Section 2:

how to hardware (or drivers/etc):

1. Anaglyph

2. Shutter Glasses

3. blah, end


One other thought, you can break in easily to the polarized dual setup by using a CRT or LCD+CRT for dual viewing with a simple hand mirror: http://www.crystalcanyons.net/pages/Tec ... ewing.shtm

This way cash outlay is minimal (works with 17" + 15" LCD, and or 17" CRT, basically anything really.) and once you see full dual res per eye you will be hooked. Then you can start thinking about dual LCD and half-mirrors and polarization.
CAVE, see what all the fuss is about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6NN5JKlIi0

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Post by Freke1 »

I was hoping You would make a complete new total 3D guide including some off the adjustment/optimizing things and how to install the drivers... I thought You had just begun... How to adjust for best 3D in 3rd person games, how to install the new Nvidia 3D driver, how to build a planar setup, the VadersApp tweak etc.. I think this should be in a main menu on the frontpage maybe. Just my opinion.

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Post by LukePC1 »

@ nubie: I think I'll add it...
@ freke: I can't do that alone... And neil pointed out, that he wants to make a 'Proper' one, so I think my time might be wasted...

I think for a normal 'Post' this tutorial is rather long already. I'm not shure, if people will read it, if it's too long.
Maybe it's best, to link to other important threads with pictures and further information.

WE could include some small pictures for better explanation...
I won't and can't make the guide completly on my own, so I need your support - which works quite well at the moment...
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ayqz1u0s
http://mtbs3d.com/naw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Post by Neil »

Keep working on it.

None of it will go to waste. Even with the "proper" one, I'm happy to give you a shared writing credit as I'll run it by you for completeness. Nothing goes to waste here.

Regards,
Neil

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Post by digitalmellon »

hi
Can anyone tell me how to set separation below 1% with Nvidia 3D driver?
Is there any other mean of setting this things up other than ctrl+F4?

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Post by BlackShark »

add presets for the iz3d driver
iz3d can remember up to 3 presets for each game, they are automatically saved independantly for each game in the user profile.
when game starts iz3d uses the 1st preset (key : kp 7)
you can switch between presets during the game using the keys : kp 7, kp 8 and kp 9


also about the new nvidia driver, you should add the important info that it's vista only.


this beginners guide seems to be a good start...

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Post by digitalmellon »

first: i have NVIDIA driver - not iz3d driver .

second:
BlackShark wrote:... you should add the important info that it's vista only.
eee...?

third:
BlackShark wrote:this beginners guide seems to be a good start...
Isn't title of this topic "Guide for Beginners"?


need help. anyone?

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Post by Neil »

I don't think it is possible to do that, but maybe there is a way to adjust the stepping or the fractions that each percentage point represents.

What driver version are you using?

Regards,
Neil

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Post by digitalmellon »

Neil wrote:maybe there is a way to adjust the stepping or the fractions that each percentage point represents.
that's my question.

My driver: NVIDIA 93.71


that's separation 1%, convergance at far distant:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/gallery/displayim ... m=26&pos=1

i want separation a little bit lower. but when i press ctrl+F3, it's 0%.

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Post by BlackShark »

digitalmellon wrote:first: i have NVIDIA driver - not iz3d driver .

second:
-quote
eee...?

third:
-quote
need help. anyone?
Sorry to confuse you, it was to add at the end of the guide
and about vista i read a bit too fast i didn't see it was already written.

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Post by cybereality »

digitalmellon wrote:
Neil wrote:maybe there is a way to adjust the stepping or the fractions that each percentage point represents.
that's my question.

that's separation 1%, convergance at far distant:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/gallery/displayim ... m=26&pos=1

i want separation a little bit lower. but when i press ctrl+F3, it's 0%.
I would be very much interested if someone finds a solution for this. The stepping for the separation on the nvidia driver could be a lot better.

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Post by Dyssident »

The separation settings are saved in the registry but they seem to only accept a decimal value from 0 to 100 (0% to 100%).
So unless there's something else I don't know about, the stepping is only 1% at a time and the minimum would be 1% :cry:

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Post by LukePC1 »

BlackShark wrote:
digitalmellon wrote:first: i have NVIDIA driver - not iz3d driver .

second:
-quote
eee...?

third:
-quote
need help. anyone?
Sorry to confuse you, it was to add at the end of the guide
and about vista i read a bit too fast i didn't see it was already written.
It was not written, I added it, after reading your post and forgot to say it here :D

Good to hear, that you like the update ;-)

@ low seperation:
I think the screen size has some impact (try to change it in Nv driver.
If you have a small screen 100% are a higher seperation to get eye-distance (which might be the 100%).

If you say the driver you own this XXL projector rig the 100% for eye distance is only some pixels, so the 1% should be less, too :-)
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Re: Guide for Beginners - Tutorial!

Post by mlarcelet »

Hi all,

Are there any updates about nVidia drivers ? What are the newest ones (174.x, 175.x, 180) capable of ? do they still include stereo 3D ? are they finally compliant for stereo 3D with GeForce 8 series ?

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Re: Guide for Beginners - Tutorial!

Post by anotherFrench »

Adjust so that distant objects in the game (like a churchtower or the clouds) are separated onscreen by 1-2 cm and close objects in the game (like the steering wheel/scope on the rifle) are not separated onscreen.

If You want more realistic 3D: increase the onscreen separating on distant objects to 6-8 cm (the distance between Your eyes basicly).
If You want more popout: adjust so the objects that are further away in the gameworld (like another soldier besides You/the car infront of Your car) is shown without onscreen separation.


I made some test with this video,
http://www.ray3d.com/video/SP/DivX/zip/ ... 02Mbps.zip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it toke me some time to set it up rigt in stereoscopic player but the result is really impressive, the screwdriver litterally pop out the screen and when I showed this to some friends, I saw them reaching and try to grab it LOL
anyway, what I see without glasses is that the separation between left and right increase when the object is close and decrease when it's far.

I think 3d in videos must be working the same way as in games so are you sure about those statements above?
I mean if there is no separation in close object, maybe they will pop_up from the background but I do not think they will ever pop_up from the screen :?:
http://tls3d.fr le site de Toute La Stéréo 3D

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Re: Guide for Beginners - Tutorial!

Post by Freke1 »

Hi
I'm the one being quoted. You aligned Your thumb in the video (which is equivalent to aligning the steeringwheel or the scope - distancewise) so the screwdriver pops out while the carpet (and any virtual churchtowers in the background) will pop in/looks like they are inside the monitor.

Closeup 3D photos and video are different as You probably know from all the good stuff on Your website :D

The statements were made to give some depth and popout while hopefully not destroying the aiming or making odd shadows appear in games.

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Re: Guide for Beginners - Tutorial!

Post by anotherFrench »

wow, NONONO..sorry if I wasn't clear about this, it's not my website and it's not my video, when I said I made some test I meant I tryed to read it with differents settings (sorry, my bad english again so please, if the real owner of the site read this, don't shoot at me, it's a misanderstanding LOL)

anyway, what I don't understand is this, in the video, if I set the thumb at screen depth (no separation, the screwdrivers comes at a distance between the thumb and my eyes, poping out the screen...
but in fps games, nothing is supposed to get between the distance of the scope/weapon and my eyes so how can anything pop out of the screen?
same thing in race games, if I set the stering wheel a screen depht, nothing should cross the limit between the wheel and my eyes so no pop-ups should be possible exept maybe if I choose an external view and set the screen depth little further in the game?

I don't know if I'm clear, it's not easy for me to explain what I think in english but don't get me wrong, those are only questions, as I don't fully understand how to set it right to get great pop-up effects in games
http://tls3d.fr le site de Toute La Stéréo 3D

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Freke1
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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Other
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Re: Guide for Beginners - Tutorial!

Post by Freke1 »

yes You're right, not many things will popout normally. I have grass and bushes popout in first person shooters because I sometimes crawl through it. In racing games dust and smoke will popout (very cool in rFactor I think :D ) but normally most things are "inside my monitor" instead. If You play 3rd person games like WoW then You can probably adjust it so that there are more popout and still comfortable to watch.

If You have a projector or a big TV 3meters away You will get a lot more popout also because there is a bigger distance between You and the screen (like with 3D theaters/cinemas).

There's no facit about it, only personal preferences. It's just fun and games 8) .

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