Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Trevorm7
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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Trevorm7 »

cybereality wrote: Yes, I read that same article. You know, there may be some truth there. I've been to some planetarium shows where they have a movie playing that completely fills my field of view, and that can be pretty immersive. It still doesn't look real, as in real-life, because there is no stereoscopy. But I felt immersed in a convincing 2D world. But for true virtual reality we obviously need both.

I saw something in 3D at the IMAX Dome Theatre at Kennedy Space Center in '07. So far nothing I have seen has come anywhere close as good. It was like there was no screen and the content merged with the room.

Avatar in 3D was a disappointment because when it said IMAX 3D I was thinking it would be something like that. But I had a seat that was way too close to the screen and I felt like I had to cross my eyes or something to keep the 3d effect.

If fresnel lens can make 3D look anything like the Dome Theatre in 3D, I would definitely want to check it out.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Okta »

Trevorm7 wrote:
If fresnel lens can make 3D look anything like the Dome Theatre in 3D, I would definitely want to check it out.
Go grab yourself a $2 page magnifier, turn off the light and hold it up to your monitor with the light off and play around with spacing and bending the lens. Awesomeness.
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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Synexious »

Wow! Every time I think I'm about to pull the trigger I find something else to consider! Hahahahaha! Seriously, this has been going on for two years now lol! HMDs, projectors, Eyefinity, 3DVS, various 3D formats, TVs, monitors, fresnels, massive format confusions like HDMI 1.4a... ZOMG! What I've gathered from this thread is that even a huge wraparound S3D projection screen isn't as good as a fresnel setup. So, apparently, a triple stereo fresnel setup would be the absolute best possible setup, which would allow a seamless panoramic view with proper spacing. Cyber's confirmed this works with polarization. Does it work with active Nvidia 3D? Anything it doesn't work with? Are there fresnels for 27" monitors? My only experience with a fresnel was when I was a kid and bought one of those "X in 1" accessory packs for my GBA SP. There was a magnifier that clipped on about two inches over the screen and magnified the image, but there were distracting circular grooves that caused me to stop using it. Was that a fresnel? I assume monitor fresnels are of higher quality.

EDIT: I just found this thread. It's a 2D triple fresnel setup, but the video is highly detailed.

ZOMG, a 54" fresnel lens! And a 28" one. I don't know what that site is, though, and I don't see any information about how to order. Maybe they are past auctions. I wonder if these are monitor quality. The description says there's no distortion. Can heat objects to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit!

Someone said fresnels degrade 3D Vision. What's your experience?

HEY! Try this: watch a video without focusing on the screen. Instead, look through the screen. Imagining what lies beyond the screen (my monitor is front of a window, so I imagine the garage roof and trees behind it) may help. This will produce a doubling effect similar to that seen when 3D glasses are removed, but it will also create a pseudo-3D effect. I watched the new Halo trailers. Now I understand what the researchers experienced when they forgot to enable stereo 3D while using fresnels. I definitely want a triple fresnel setup now.

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cybereality
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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by cybereality »

There is some blurring of the image with fresnel, but what you get in return far out-weighs the loss of picture quality, in my opinion.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Synexious »

cybereality wrote:There is some blurring of the image with fresnel, but what you get in return far out-weighs the loss of picture quality, in my opinion.
So would you get a 1080p fresnelized 3DVS monitor setup instead of a 720p 3DVS curved projection screen setup?

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by cybereality »

Aphradonis wrote: So would you get a 1080p fresnelized 3DVS monitor setup instead of a 720p 3DVS curved projection screen setup?
Both of those setups sound pretty crazy. Not sure which would be better. I'd be pretty happy with just one big screen actually.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Synexious »

Someone said the distant focus effect from fresnels doesn't happen with projectors, so I'd think I'd rather have a fresnel setup. And how is desktop performance with fresnels? Do people have to remove the lenses for desktop computing, or is the magnification effect useful? I know there's some edge distortion, but other than that, it might be interesting.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Okta »

Aphradonis wrote:Someone said the distant focus effect from fresnels doesn't happen with projectors, so I'd think I'd rather have a fresnel setup. And how is desktop performance with fresnels? Do people have to remove the lenses for desktop computing, or is the magnification effect useful? I know there's some edge distortion, but other than that, it might be interesting.
I ran my 19 inch lcd many months with a fresnel. It all depends on if it is big enough to display the whole image without crouching forwards (which gives the best immersion) which will depend on the focal length of the lens and how it is spaced from the screen and your viewing distance.
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cybereality
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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by cybereality »

Fresnel does seem to create a different type of immersion. Even compared to huge movie theater screens, were it is still obvious you are looking at a screen. Fresnel can really suck you into the game. However the experience can be intense at times, and may give some people a headache after a while. I would recommend getting a single page-sized fresnel and try it out on one of the monitors you have (you can use anaglyph if you only have a 2D monitor to test). Then you might have a better idea if this is something you want to invest in. Also, it might be a bit extreme to try to browse the web or do work with a fresnel. That'd be too much for me, at least.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Synexious »

OK, I've just purchased an Acer HN274H 27" 3D LCD, the first of an eventual three. I'm looking for a fresnel for this monitor. Something I've been wondering about is why the Kantek lenses (which only go up to 19") are so much more expensive than the MaxiAids "TV magnifiers." Do these larger fresnels have more noticeable grooves? One Amazon reviewer said the Kanteks are just overpriced, and another said the MaxiAids worked well for her - in fact, Cyber, contrary to your experience, she said viewing the desktop at work became less tiring than before the fresnel; interesting. Someone used a 40" fresnel for a flight simulator, so I suppose even these large ones are acceptable, at least for gaming. Slipstream, where'd you get your lenses? What's the diagonal length? Who here regularly uses a fresnel?

I may get this. This one is apparently specifically for 28" screens, very close to my monitor size, but I suspect it's actually the same as the former.

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cybereality
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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by cybereality »

Well try it out, see if it works for you. I just know personally I can start feeling sick after a while playing with fresnel. Maybe thats just me.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Synexious »

cybereality wrote:Well try it out, see if it works for you. I just know personally I can start feeling sick after a while playing with fresnel. Maybe thats just me.
What size fresnel did you play with? Was it one marketed for monitors or TVs?

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by tritosine5G »

I used to get sick playing at 2D 60hz , lot more nervous and stuff. I think this can be researched, lol.
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!

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cybereality
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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by cybereality »

Aphradonis wrote: What size fresnel did you play with? Was it one marketed for monitors or TVs?
It was sized for a 22" monitor, so it may have been around that size. I got it from slipstream (on this forum) I don't know what company its from. I mean, it worked great, but that combined with the 3D glasses kinda took it over the edge. Maybe if I played with it more that feeling with go away. I also get a little sick were using HMDs with headtracking and stuff like that. Not throwing up sick, but I will have to take breaks every 45 minutes or so.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by slipstream »

Well, it's been well over a year now since the last post and I am still hooked with my F550 fresnel and upgraded 27 Acer 3D monitor. 27 inch is the max size for this lens and unfortunately they cannot supply me with a larger size. Still 27 inch gives me a complete wraparound FOV, in stereo 3D. This is possible due to the reduced distance from eye to screen plus the magnification from the lens.

Has anyone else, apart from Cyber, tried out this setup? :?:

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by WiredEarp »

@ slipstream: do you have 3 fresnels? Or are you using only one of your 3 3D monitors when using the fresnel? It seems unusual to run fresnel AND 3D, what are the benefits of running both simultaneously?

Also, what are those Acer screens like? Are they passive or active? I think I saw in machines sig that he has 3 as well...

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by cybereality »

Fresnel + 3D is a really amazing experience. It totally makes you feel like you are in the game. Way more immersive than either technology by itself.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by slipstream »

WiredEarp wrote:@ slipstream: do you have 3 fresnels? Or are you using only one of your 3 3D monitors when using the fresnel? It seems unusual to run fresnel AND 3D, what are the benefits of running both simultaneously?

Also, what are those Acer screens like? Are they passive or active? I think I saw in machines sig that he has 3 as well...
The Acer I own is active, and yes I did have 3 but as per my first post on this thread there was no requirement for the flanking monitors because of utilising the lens I am able to achieve almost full FOV with just the centre monitor. (I will update my sig)

I have experimented with 3 x 27 inch monitors in portrait as opposed to landscape with lenses and the result is incredible, total immersion, and a complete seamless image. However, the drawback of course, no 3D apart from anaglyph.

I will post a piccy later of my old 3 lens setup.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by slipstream »

Here is my old triple non 3D setup. Complete surround view with seamless image. You can't see but the monitors are separated from each other by approx 8inches.

Image

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by WiredEarp »

Interesting. How come you dont want to do the fresnel + 3D bit with all 3 of your monitors?
Even without 3D, the 3 monitor fresnel setup looks awesome for simulators!

What sort of collective/stick/foot pedal setup do you have there? I'm building a collective atm, that one looks like something you bought? I can't figure out the stick from the pic, if its just a joystick with an extension or something more complex...?

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by slipstream »

Yes it was purchased. The Cyclic is a normal joystick but with an extension which emulates more or less perfectly a normal cyclic, with no spring ie no centering.

The problem, well not so much a problem, more a waste, is the fact that the lenses magnify the image by such a factor that I cannot view the outside monitors unless I make large movements with my head. Not a problem you say, but it is when using track ir. off course by sitting further back the more I can see left and right but I then lose the immersion factor from above and below. However, I have fixed that by positioning the monitors and lenses in portrait mode. In portrait mode you can position yourself so that you are totally immersed in the whole of the image both in pitch and yaw. The only issue with portrait is no 3D, except anaglyph which I'm more than happy with. I am building a custom cabinet as we speak to house the monitors and lenses correctly.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Croccy22 »

OK, so you guys have sold me on the whole Fresnel lens thing. So where the hell can I get one for a 24 inch monitor in the UK? And how much are they?

Thanks, Matt.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by Robborboy »

This actually sounds just about perfect for me. Recently purchased a 24" Sony 3D Display. A fresnel to provide the illusion of high FoV + the active shutter 3D, I imagine, would be amazing.

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Re: Fresnel lens wow factor with 3DS

Post by RobFromSaturn »

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