Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

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TanookiPhoenix
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Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by TanookiPhoenix »

Or are we pretty much doomed to stay on the 20 series cards for 3D Vision?

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Losti »

TanookiPhoenix wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:14 pm Or are we pretty much doomed to stay on the 20 series cards for 3D Vision?
==> Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers? ==> NOPE. Because its not a "simple hacking" possible here.

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by P.C.Zen »

Is it at least possible?

People are still working on it though...right?

Is it something that might eventually be solved?

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Losti »

P.C.Zen wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:05 am Is it at least possible?

People are still working on it though...right?

Is it something that might eventually be solved?
If you ask me? Nope :shock:

If i am wrong, just let me know.

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by P.C.Zen »

Losti wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:46 am
P.C.Zen wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:05 am Is it at least possible?

People are still working on it though...right?

Is it something that might eventually be solved?
If you ask me? Nope :shock:

If i am wrong, just let me know.
Thanks :0)

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Feisty_Fernando
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Feisty_Fernando »

Maybe something can be done with the iZ3D driver by the time 3000 cards are plentiful or anyone truly needs a 3000 card.

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by TanookiPhoenix »

Feisty_Fernando wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:16 pm Maybe something can be done with the iZ3D driver by the time 3000 cards are plentiful or anyone truly needs a 3000 card.
Here's hoping🥺

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Guig2000 »

Yes but usually, when you play in 3D, you prefer have the full pixel number per eye, no? When using a mainstream 3D display, it is currently achievable only with frame sequential or frame packed. And to output properly such 3D signals, a quad stereoscopic buffer integrated into the display driver is required.

On windows, it requires to replace nvidia GPU by AMD or intel as they still have quad buffer, or to still have a custom highly hacked nvidia driver.
On linux, we have open source drivers so we can do everything we want. But it requires hard work. NB: quite all games without kernel-level anti-cheat software works on linux, sometimes faster than on windows.

So who will do that?
We need full time dev that we pay, we need to organize ourself if we don't want S3D to die right now!
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by 3DNovice »

AFAIK, only OpenGL 120Hz Frame sequential requires Quad Buffer.

I'm pretty sure that Linux is out of the question for any sizeable library of games in 3D. Even though Valve loves Linux and Steam Play enables some games on the platform,
it's still messy.

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Guig2000 »

In fact gaming on linux have changed a lot the last few years and months:
1°) tons of (steam) games are linux native.
2°) wine became super effective especially proton (so much that a lot of games run faster than on windows), which is the steam fork of wine.
3°) The main issue is with multiplayer and mmo games: some will detect wine as cheat, on other games wine can give issues to anti-cheat software or make them crash, or make the game super slow. Whatever, we all know that we cannot really play in 3d to this kind of games as the 3D fixes can be detected as cheat and also they will need 3D fix to be redone multiple times a year.

Last year, my brother needed an low cost gaming machine, I built one on kubuntu (By the way I also "upgraded" my nephew and mother's machines just by replacing windows by lubuntu).
I tested it and I was able to run any windows offline games on linux using proton, but for some games I had to search on forums and type some commands.
I did not tried it but apparently it's even easier with lutris.

Currently, on my windows, I'm using Microsoft directX quad buffer or 3Dvision. I was also using it with my vega 64 (or AMD HD3D), combined with tridef ignition.
I don't know any other method than quad buffer, even for directX, that can make a graphic outputing frame sequential 3D on games. In fact quad buffer has been designed exactly for that. Software page-fliping will works for displaying videos or pictures, but usually not correctly for gaming.
Without that nvidia S3d gamers will probably be stuck with SBS and top/bottom.
EDIT: I mean, we're speaking about after 3Dvision. When you use 3Dvision, it still probably use quad buffer internally.
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by 3DNovice »

I'm pretty sure that AMD did not offer Quadbuffer until they initiated HD3D, which only worked via a HDMI connection.
AFAIK, Nvidia hacks into the rendering pipeline of an existing game to render the stereoview and is not using traditional Quadbuffer for DirectX.
Nvidia 3D Vision uses Back buffers and Swap Chains for DirectX, I think.

I wonder if Single Pass Stereo made for VR, would be the best option to hack into.
https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/gr ... passstereo
Less overhead and supported going forward via the need in VR applications

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by RAGEdemon »

Bo3b has been working on the iZ3D driver on Github, and has managed to get it to a milestone - details on the repo discussion:

https://github.com/bo3b/iZ3D/issues/1

Not much since December as he is likely concentrating on HelixVision...
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by 3DNovice »

That is great news

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by skyrimer »

I'm surprised that bo3b is centered on HelixVision instead of iz3d since no matter how you look at it, it's a dead end at some point without full Nvidia driver support and new cards lack of compatibility. He was the most active regarding iz3d, but for some reason he appears to have slowed down on that side, I suppose he has his reasons, but i don't understand it at all.

Right now I believe VR is about to explode in 2022, since we're going to see several factors entering the scene:

1) PSVR 2, with possibly quite a few amazing exclusives and hopefully big developer working on VR games now that it has proved profitable, with PSVR1 and Quest selling millions of headsets and games.
2) Quest 2 getting mass market and getting sale prices maybe for $250-$299, counting for millions of headsets of a very affordable and high quality VR headset.
3) Apple releasing their first heavily rumoured VR headset, that would surely explode the VR market for good.
4) First VR headsets with true monitor quality like Vive Pro 2 (120hz refresh rate / 120º FOV / 5k resolution).

If Bo3b managed to get iz3d working for Helixvision, and somehow managed to create a dx12 wrapper (too big ifs), he'd have an incredible market opportunity with Helixvision, now without hardware or driver limitations and full 3d gaming working, since not even Vorpx has managed to get true geometry 3D on DX12 games, and depends only on fake 3D for DX12, so i'm really surprised he's not laser focused on getting iz3d working, but he'll probably do that for a reason.
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by 3DNovice »

skyrimer wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:47 am I'm surprised that bo3b is centered on HelixVision
He could very well be centered on using his "skills to pay the bills"
As in real life work to earn income

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Lysander »

RAGEdemon wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:28 am Bo3b has been working on the iZ3D driver on Github, and has managed to get it to a milestone - details on the repo discussion:

https://github.com/bo3b/iZ3D/issues/1

Not much since December as he is likely concentrating on HelixVision...
Oh, that's a cool thread, it's nice to see him make such progress in terms of collecting pieces and seem enthusiastic, since he hasn't been active on the forums lately. Fingers crossed, thank you bo3b.
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Guig2000 »

3DNovice wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:43 am I'm pretty sure that AMD did not offer Quadbuffer until they initiated HD3D, which only worked via a HDMI connection.
AFAIK, Nvidia hacks into the rendering pipeline of an existing game to render the stereoview and is not using traditional Quadbuffer for DirectX.
Nvidia 3D Vision uses Back buffers and Swap Chains for DirectX, I think.

I wonder if Single Pass Stereo made for VR, would be the best option to hack into.
https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/gr ... passstereo
Less overhead and supported going forward via the need in VR applications
Yes AMD HD3D on mainstream card is a quad buffer.
OpenGL quad buffer worked until the one of the last 2019 catalyst drivers (I tested by myself).
DirectX quad buffer still works in 2020, I did not test in 2021.
There is also a proprietary HD3D quadbuffer protocol.

3Dvision include a quad buffer,
it has been at time openGL compatible
and with last capable drivers it i only DirectX quad buffer or 3Dvision quad buffer (two different protocols).

AFAIK intel also implement a directX quad buffer with some HD3D compatibility at least for some of their drivers.


They can be use by third party software like stereoscopic player or tridef ignition.

So quad buffer is a first step that we need, so it's the issue we are facing with it on nvidia side as they stopped everything into 3Dvision.

I'm not competent to answear you about the "Single Pass Stereo" but it sounds like a good idea.
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Boblenon »

there isn't a company on Earth ready to take over 3d vision technology in 2021?

already you can not unite to be paid like bob helixvision on steam or vorpX(40 dollars)?

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Lysander »

Without the hardware support, it's a kinda dead market, right? Probably not worth it to invest in an actual business.
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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by Boblenon »

a private company cannot do hardware support ?
ok, it is no longer interesting for nvidia but no one company for world-wide market

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Re: Has there been any further progress with driver hacking dx11 support in 30 series drivers?

Post by RAGEdemon »

Tridef was a private company which went bust due to a lack of sales due to 3D Vision being 'better' due to closed proprietary way nvidia did 3D on their cards.

nVidia pulled the plug on 3DVision shortly thereafter.

If nVidia had pulled the plug before tridef went bust, we would all be using tridef products and tridef would have enough funding to be still alive...

I think nvidia did this intentionally.
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