RifTUP! FullHD Oculus DK1 upgrade kit

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Inscothen
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

What? All I said was:
Inscothen wrote:I've been trying to get a HiRes Rift mod/DIY started since June and others have been trying for longer... ...With this panel probably being LVDS you may have a solution soon enough,... ...I'll try to help if I can...
:lol:

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Flim »

I like the idea of a smaller screen as well... a 5.5 inch will be mucho better. I have a 3d printer and if we can find the screen, then I will cad up the new housing like the one Oculus has. I guess we will need to print the controller box as well... Give me a shout if I can help.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by MSat »

I'd be stoked if the nexus7 panels were LVDS. Even if we couldn't use the original control box, there are plenty of DVI/HDMI->LVDS interface boards out there. :D

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

MSat wrote:I'd be stoked if the nexus7 panels were LVDS. Even if we couldn't use the original control box, there are plenty of DVI/HDMI->LVDS interface boards out there. :D
It is LVDS... I think. :D

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »


Nice find!!

Soooo LVDS right?

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

I don't know. I'm just trying to help find more info and really all I've found is a more detailed picture of the FPC cable. There's still the chance it's MIPI because both Qualcomm(the Snapdragon chipmaker) and JDI(the displaymaker) are MIPI alliance members but that doesn't mean it's a MIPI display. The snapdragon used in the Nexus 7-2 has both MIPI and LVDS and it's up to the maker/designer(ASUS) to decide. There's been a real strong push for MIPI on mobile devicess and eDP on notebook/all-in-one displays, but LVDS is still around for many displays.

OzOnE2k10 said in the DIY thread that rozsnyo is getting the 7" panel to test, so maybe Oz or rozsnyo can tell you more about the display.
.....Daniel has ordered a few for testing (as well as the 5" Sharp and 7" thingybob).
Unless someone wants to contact ASUS, Google, or JDI, we must keep searching or wait and see.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by MSat »

Looks like the Nexus7 has one of those snap connectors to me
nexus7..jpg
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

the larger photos at ifixit (teardown) seem to be showing that it is a 40 pin combined dual LVDS cable.

Just watched the video, to get a secondary confirmation.,and looking into the connector as he pulls the cable off..at 1080p res...we see.... It again looks like a 40 pin mini connector, so it is probably dual channel LVDS. Very high odds. Very low odds of MIPI.

Brown Dog might have the converter for connectivity. the are other connector converter companies as well.

~~~~~~~~
Oh oh. Still looking at the video....Looking at the cable..does not seem like enough traces for LVDS.....more like MIPI...

But, too many traces for MIPI, so it could be a double sided cable, one channel on either side of the cable. after all, the connector has two rows.

The above photo, in the post directly above mine confirms the approx 40 pin cable connector, which again, says dual channel LVDS.

Looks like meat's on the menu, boys.
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

How many traces for MIPI? The LG 5.5" has 30 pin connector with no dummy pins. I don't know if a larger panel would require more for backlight LED's or not.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

MIPI, IIRC, and I could be wrong, is supposed to be a 4 wire connection. basically serial data and then breakout at the other end. In this case, they might also be sending the speaker connection and the backlight connection on the same cable. Then a ground trace to separate the different sections to drop the interference. plus power, two different power lines. One for the backlight, one for the electronics that are integrated with the breakout/drive circuitry.

Which means it would be about right for MIPI, if it was single sided. The guy who said 'meat on the menu' never did get to eat the hobbitses, anyway.
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

Here's the LG with it's connector. LG 5.5" MIPI 1080p

Everything the panel needs is on the 30 pin. 1 for ID. 8 for 4 lane MIPI. 2 for MIPI clock. 1 Vsync. 1 Reset. 10 grounds. 4 for LED. 1 iovcc. 1 vsp and 1 vsn.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

Oh well, pipe dreams dashed against the rocks. Crustacean food. No meat on the menu.
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by 3dvison »

So is there something good to report on the 5.5 or 7 inch screens ?
I am not good with this teck, so something good may have just been posted above me and I did not even know it..LOL

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

KBK wrote:Oh well, pipe dreams dashed against the rocks. Crustacean food. No meat on the menu.
Could you elaborate and stop speaking in metaphors -.- :|

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Lilwolf »

Has anyone actually contacted Oculus yet? They are a small enough company that they might help.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by zacherynuk »

http://www.design-reuse.com/news/32408/ ... ystem.html They exist for general purchase... need to get them streamlined somewhat...

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

Raptor5150 wrote:
KBK wrote:Oh well, pipe dreams dashed against the rocks. Crustacean food. No meat on the menu.
Could you elaborate and stop speaking in metaphors -.- :|

It's probably a MIPI panel. Which, of course, is why you would have oculus making their own MIPI board.

It is not all that hard these days, to make such things, if you know software like eaglecad.

Or rather, making the wiring connections in the software is fairly easy. Doing it right, is the hard part.

Essentially, if one has a month of bits of spare time to learn how to use eaglecad, they can get to that level. Heck, a lot sooner, for the fast learners. it is just that signal path routing, and pathway widths and types, etc, and the knowing of the why of all those things..that is the critical part.

We're talking peak pixel rates in the 140mhz range, so it's basically an issue of handling digital as RF as a printed circuit, so it takes some thinking and tinkering. There's a whole host of issues and some are even capable of being unknown and unrecognized by people and companies who build successful working boards.

Almost anyone can build a board that 'works'. Or they can echo (copy) another person's design, or they can use the layout sent along with the chip implementation data...which is where 99% of your modern board designs end up being.

Essentially, you have to be a fully blown expert in base electrical function, analog signal routing, test gear development, RF engineering, and more..in order to build a 'best' board. And yes, there is a difference in the two results.
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

The 7" could still be LVDS for all we know.

Oculus made their MIPI circuit because of the LG. Are you saying a possible Devkit2 would use a 7" 1920x1200 MIPI panel? That would actually make sense keeping DevKit formfactor. Maybe they were waiting on the nexus screen? Switching to smaller display in consumer model would give higher pixel density giving devs a reason to upgrade to the consumer version even if it's the same resolution.

It'd actually be kinda funny. They show off a smaller display prototype for the kickstarter and release 7" DevKit. They show off a 5.5" prototype and release a 7" devkit 2.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

Just got off the phone with google play support (high level tech support tier) and they confirmed from internal information that the new Nexus 7 uses the LVDS interface..

Looks like the hunts back on boys! :mrgreen:

I will be getting an email from them tomorrow to ultra confirm this just in case.

Edit: Oh and KBK everything you say frightens me. :P

So lets start brain storming ideas on how to get this panel into the dev kit. :D
Last edited by Raptor5150 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Popopinsel »

Can't we just put the whole 2nd Gen N7 into the Rift with modifications to the plastic case and then stream to the device or use its myDP/SlimPort functionality to use it as a display?

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

Popopinsel wrote:Can't we just put the whole 2nd Gen N7 into the Rift with modifications to the plastic case and then stream to the device or use its myDP/SlimPort functionality to use it as a display?

Why that would be dumb... Swap the LCD to keep the rift form factor.. Its a drop in replacement not hack and saw to all hell to fit an entire tablet replacement.


But yes since it uses LVDS whats our plan of attack?

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

Are they able to tell you any info on the panel. Like pinout.

So we need new cable from controlbox to the head at the very least. Does the connector in the controlbox have enough pins for a 2 channel 8-bit 1920x1200@60 signal? On the teardown the LVDS connector looks to be 20pins for the display. The cable should also include wires for USB.The DevKit cable is glued into the HMD housing. If 20pin connector on the PCB doesn't support 1920x1200 then we'd need to solder a new connector(nope :? ) or use a different LCD driver board.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

I was wanking my way into getting myself to believe that it is LVDS. I was talking a good talk...But it may not be true.

Looking again, it might still be MIPI. Unless someone has a real positive on it's connectivity, we're still in the air on this one.
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

Raptor5150 said google said it was LVDS. Unless support was just reading the snapdragon spec sheet.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

Typing this a from a Google nexus 7 2 pad at a staples store. Glad to know it is lvds.
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

Inscothen wrote:Raptor5150 said google said it was LVDS. Unless support was just reading the snapdragon spec sheet.

Im pretty sure it is but it sucks because the device is so new.. No one wants to pull it apart to tinker with it..

Once we get someone willing who has a rift :P maybe Inscothen wants to buy one and rip it apart?

Then you can start to look for controller boards and such and start working on getting it all together and possibly a write up!

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Flim »

I checked it out today ay bestbuy... Looks good and only has a very light screen door, but nothing like the current screen. I wish it were a 5.5 inch though, we still need a smaller screen or you won't use all the pixels.

Image

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

5.5" is too small. repeat, too small.

It's perfect if you have a IPD of 55mm or so. Which is the bottom size. Nice pixel density but it is useless unless you have a very tiny IPD.


for 65mm, which is the bell curve average estimate of IPd, you need about 132mm wide, which translates to....about 6.1" on a 16:10 screen.

I'm at 68mm or so,and thus..i require a minimum diagonal 16:10 screen of.....6.4"-6.45"

At 7 inches diagonal, the screen is a ~hair~ big, but nothing can be done about that until Oculus can command a panel at about 16:9 1080p@ 6.3-6.4" diagonal.

The Sony xperia has that exact panel -----coincidentally enough. ;) ;) ;)
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

Oculus is using the 5.5" in the 1080p prototype. If you want to replicate the 1080p prototype, that's the panel to use unless you get a larger panel with the same PPI. It's only too small if you get too close to the lenses or are using different lenses(like the 50mm 5x). It's almost just right unless your IPD is larger than 64mm I think.

If you wanna test it out on your Rift and your IPD is 64mm, I made a screenshot with rebuilt world demo using the specs from the 1080prototype(taken from the SDK) and centered for on the 7". Fullsize the pic on you Rift(no window, 1:1 pixel matching), and see if you agree. It may be off a few pixels but for me it's almost perfect. I wear my Rift like Valve recommends. Even pulling the housing in to have the lenses touch my eye lashes it's still good for me. If you get too close to the lenses or headstrap too tight, you will see all the edges. With the 5.5" you get as close to 960x1080 per eye(whilst having great FOV) as you can with the Rift's design.

5.5" simulate pic for DevKit The white would be no screen so it wouldn't be as noticeable in your peripheral.

Let's just focus on the 7" in this thread though from now on.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

Inscothen wrote: Let's just focus on the 7" in this thread though from now on.

Yes please... But it seems we are the only ones looking into this at the moment.

So if we start it and show people what we have been accomplishing we can make this a more standalone type mod with its own proper thread and everything.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Inscothen »

I just read that AUO might also be supplying the 7" 1920x1200 panel for the Nexus 7. So if we can find the model number for that panel, we may speed up this solution. I would think both panels(the JDI and AUO) would have the same pinouts/specs so maybe another tablet will also use this panel(next Kindle Fire HD 7"?). Maybe you guys can even get just a panel instead of having to buy a tablet to mod your Rifts.
Last edited by Inscothen on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by 3dvison »

The thing about the dev kit Rift, was that it went to a bigger 7inch screen, over the old 5.6 being used in Diy Rifts and the Rift prototype, but it also went to smaller diameter lenses.
I always felt the best combo of screen and lens, would be a 7inch screen but with 50mm or bigger lens . Even the 50mm felt too small for me.
I made my Diy Rift (5.6screen) with big 3inch lenses, a total of four, two lenses for each eye and it really helped to take away the feeling of looking through tubes. The 3 inch lenses would be perfect with the 7inch, because with the 5.6 inch you could still see a bit beyond the screens horizontal edge, so with the 7 inch screen it should be just right.

http://www.amazon.com/UltraOptix-Round- ... B0019NA0S4

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

3dvison wrote:The thing about the dev kit Rift, was that it went to a bigger 7inch screen, over the old 5.6 being used in Diy Rifts and the Rift prototype, but it also went to smaller diameter lenses.
I always felt the best combo of screen and lens, would be a 7inch screen but with 50mm or bigger lens . Even the 50mm felt too small for me.
I made my Diy Rift (5.6screen) with big 3inch lenses, a total of four, two lenses for each eye and it really helped to take away the feeling of looking through tubes. The 3 inch lenses would be perfect with the 7inch, because with the 5.6 inch you could still see a bit beyond the screens horizontal edge, so with the 7 inch screen it should be just right.

http://www.amazon.com/UltraOptix-Round- ... B0019NA0S4

We're not here to talk about lenses just yet we still need to get the screen up and running, once we do that then we can iron out the other kinks but for now we focus on getting that screen out of that nexus and into the rift.

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

LVDS confirm?

LVDS confirm?

Echo?

Echo?
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Flim »

How can you really tell? Is there something on the plug?

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Raptor5150 »

KBK wrote:LVDS confirm?

LVDS confirm?

Echo?

Echo?
Nothing on my extra be sure email yet maybe tomorrow but I got one today saying they are looking into it.

It has to be LVDS lets just get the work done first believing that its LVDS :P

So what kind of controller board will we need?

Who wants to open up the nexus 7 can anyone sacrifice thiers for the sake of a pre consumer version HD Dev Rift?

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by wileythecoyote »

Keep it up! The anticipation is killing me :)

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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by KBK »

I've had a nexus 7/2 in my hands and the funds in my pocket vibrating and screaming at me..twice, in the past 36 hours.

I really don't need one of the dang things unless I'm taking the panel out of it. And, I've got too much on my plate right now to pursue (or be involved inthe hunt for) the design of a mipi board, if it turns out to be mipi.

The other thing is that I don't think that Oculus is going to not release a 1080p unit, in the near future.

The telling point is the rapid delivery of the last of the pre-orders, it's a dead giveaway, IMO and IME.

Their decision on whether to release or not release a 1080p dev or consumer 'pre-release' for testing, that decision will not be fully finalized until they are shipping dev kit 1.0 from stock, with no pre-order situation existing anymore. And that moment of decision making is rapidly nearing.

In the next two weeks, is my guess. Too many appropriate panels are showing up now for this decision to be delayed.

I don't mind tinkering, I've done a lifetime of it. But I now tend to use my tinker energies only in the direction of finished products and prototyping, not just funtime. I've had to conserve energies and combine the two.

And..if this comes down to a 6-8 week difference,and I save myself a whole lotta grief by buying their slicker'n'snot finished unit over that of my geek-hack'n'duct tape unit, I'll wait for theirs. If indeed it is 8-10-12 weeks of difference.

And knowing if that is a real point, that will happen in the next two to four weeks, is my guess.

For example, they seem to have recently had a jump in sales rates, from some of these youtube videos and the like. which can wreak havoc with any plans/projections to build stock numbers (beyond presale) and then move to an HD model of any kind, be it consumer or dev. Timing that 'flip' correctly... can be tricky. (rift tracker says ~4k units sold in three weeks, which is an increase, not a slow down)

This thing is apparently (duh!) a constant spiral upward, which makes predictions and projections take a real beating. Any form of elasticity in sales over time can really screw you up.

One thing is true, though. One thing can be discerned. High levels of current dev kit 1.0 sales will probably end up pushing the HD version, be it devII or pre-consumer or actual consumer.....further away in time.
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Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Post by Flim »

I think we have a while before the next version is here... I highly doubt they will make DK2. I wouldn't mind buying the Nexus 7, but once I get it apart and it is lvds, is the cable from the rift the same plug?

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