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RifTUP! FullHD Oculus DK1 upgrade kit
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Author:  Grix [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Flim wrote:
I think we have a while before the next version is here... I highly doubt they will make DK2. I wouldn't mind buying the Nexus 7, but once I get it apart and it is lvds, is the cable from the rift the same plug?


They have to make a DK2. How else will developers be able to test features like positional tracking?

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Grix wrote:
Flim wrote:
I think we have a while before the next version is here... I highly doubt they will make DK2. I wouldn't mind buying the Nexus 7, but once I get it apart and it is lvds, is the cable from the rift the same plug?


They have to make a DK2. How else will developers be able to test features like positional tracking?



Weve been speculating on the Oculus subreddit that they will release a devkit 2 for upper level gaming companies to test with so its less of a gamble getting everyone and their mother a chance to get one.. It seems like the most likely choice so I wouldnt abandon this thread just yet KBK.

Who here is going to buy a nexus 7 and go through the ifixit tear down?

Film? Will you be our guinea pig? All you really have to do is follow the DIY kings advice (whoever that may be) and mini write up (make sure to post pictures or even videos) and you should be fine.

What do you say?

Author:  Flim [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

I'm thinking about it..... :D

I agree on DK2, only the big boys will get one!

Author:  zacherynuk [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

I'm trying to get one from ebay to destroy... not here in UK to buy for ages

Author:  KBK [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Flim wrote:
I'm thinking about it..... :D

I agree on DK2, only the big boys will get one!


I disagree.

It would be a good way to make 20,000+ core level enemies.

Right now these people are all friends and big supporters.

No need to make them very disgruntled enemies.

Author:  Flim [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

I guess we will see, but rumor is some of the big boys already have the 1080p version. I doubt they will be built on mass scale like Dk1. My guess (we are all guessing) the next version will be consumer.

But, I'm hoping this Nexus 7 works and we will have one very soon!

Author:  KBK [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

There is no doubt that some of them have at least the 1080p 5.5" 1080p 400ppi panel version that they showed as a prototype. No doubt at all.

I would expect that, at the minimum.

I would expect them to be sent along to AAA developers, under the usual NDA agreements...as these 1080p units were being introduced as prototypes to the larger world.

If I was in Oculus as a voice in the company, I would insist on it, quite shrilly (slaps on the forehead and everything)... until I was listened to (If required to do so, ie, if no one had any common sense-which has shown itself to not be a problem, they seem wise enough).

Author:  Inscothen [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Valve and Epic might have the current 1080p prototype already.

I think they should only release a devkit2 with most or all of the features of the consumer version I think. Maybe as a limited quantity test run for the consumer version and limit to Dev's who actually have games/projects and not just demos.

I mean how many people would be mad if they get a 1080p Rift whether 7" screen or like the 1080p prototype, without positional tracking or any features said to be in the consumer version, then 6 months later a Rift is announced/released with a better screen(resolution, pixels per degree/inch, blacklevels, response time, etc...), better tracking, cameras, better optics and wider FOV, lower latency, lighter weight, more comfortable, etc.. for the same cost or lower.

Sure there would be the enthusiasts like us who would be happy buying both but how many owners of the devkit2 owners wouldn't upgrade.

There's also the problem of shipping. If they announce the 1080p devkit2 in a couple months, when would anyone actually get it? They still have to tool, test, make, ship, distribute. If they just focus on the consumer version they can at least announce, build up a small stockpile(10,000-20,000), then release. When everyone sees the difference between the current devkit and the consumer version, I think it would be a more profound jump over a devkit2 to consumer.

Author:  KBK [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

It gets back to the point I made about knowing how it is going to go, in about two-three weeks, when they get very close to shipping from local stock.

That would be the best time for them to make that decision.

They would be expected to begin the process of making 1080p devkits without ever telling you, if they were going to introduce one. As a manufacturer, I can tell you, that is how it works.

We don't tell you poop, as it is bad for business.

Oculus is past the kickstarter obligations point, so they can do what they want and all bets are off. You don't have to be told anything.

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Guys :( if you want to talk about that kinda S#it then start your own thread...

Im typing this atm with deskope its awesome I actually like this!! We need 1080P

And thats what were here for.. Not discussing when a 1080p dev kit will come out ect ect..

We have the tools to get this done now! So lets get this started in a proper way.. We need to build a team if your willing to join the starting of this project then let me know in this thread and ill start up a list.

No more derails please :)

Thanks!

Author:  Flim [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

You can convince yourself all day long, but if it were me... I would not release a public DK2 at this point. I would get the consumer out asap!


Hey, I could be wrong... I don't work for Oculus, so anything could happen.

btw, I picked up a 16g Asus nexus 7 ! :mrgreen:

Author:  stevetb [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Raptor5150 wrote:
Guys :( if you want to talk about that kinda S#it then start your own thread...

Im typing this atm with deskope its awesome I actually like this!! We need 1080P

And thats what were here for.. Not discussing when a 1080p dev kit will come out ect ect..

We have the tools to get this done now! So lets get this started in a proper way.. We need to build a team if your willing to join the starting of this project then let me know in this thread and ill start up a list.

No more derails please :)

Thanks!


Raptor,

Why are you not buying a Nexus 7 2nd Gen. and pushing the project along? For someone so passionate about the project I would have thought you would be the first one to go out and find one and drive the RND for it. Just a thought.

-Steve

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

stevetb wrote:
Raptor5150 wrote:
Guys :( if you want to talk about that kinda S#it then start your own thread...

Im typing this atm with deskope its awesome I actually like this!! We need 1080P

And thats what were here for.. Not discussing when a 1080p dev kit will come out ect ect..

We have the tools to get this done now! So lets get this started in a proper way.. We need to build a team if your willing to join the starting of this project then let me know in this thread and ill start up a list.

No more derails please :)

Thanks!


Raptor,

Why are you not buying a Nexus 7 2nd Gen. and pushing the project along? For someone so passionate about the project I would have thought you would be the first one to go out and find one and drive the RND for it. Just a thought.

-Steve


I dont have 200$ to get one?? All my money goes to bills I got a rift for my birthday and im fresh out of college still looking for a career type job so.. I cant. Im out for getting one so someone who does have a well paying job should have no problem getting one but anyone who has one atm doesnt want to rip it open because its so new.

I just want this thread to stay on task so we can get SOMETHING moving along.. No one has tried this stuff before on the dev kit and if we are the first it would be such an amazing feat. Once we get a write up and something working I would have no problem saving for a couple months to get a nexus 7 or even an LCD

That reminds me we dont have an option to grab a replacement LCD from a 2nd gen because again its way too new. (if the new display is 40$ or something you bet your butt i will be buying one.) So buying the whole package is all we can right now and if someone is willing to drop the $200 (which isnt alot for most people) then we can get it moving along and I dont have the technical know how to rip something like the nexus 7 apart and cable splicing ect ect to get the LVDS all hooked up. Which is why we have a guinea pig start to whip something up to make it all easier for us to buy all the parts and whip our own 1080p dev kit up.

Author:  Flim [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

So what do I need to look for when tearing this thing apart..? something specific on the cable or the controller board?

Author:  Inscothen [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

You could start with looking at chips on the back of the display near the connector and the tablet's motherboard. You might not see anything since the display seems to be bonded with the touchscreen and anything that might identify components may be hidden. If it's LVDS I'd imagine there would be more components visible. Use a magnifier to read any text on circuit board or ic's.

On the MIPI panels I've seen the driver board components are just a driver ic and some capacitors. On the LVDS panels I've seen, there's quite a few more components.

Author:  KBK [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

take a few high rez close ups of the video cable and open connector. Both sides of the cable, at the termination point.

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Flim wrote:
So what do I need to look for when tearing this thing apart..? something specific on the cable or the controller board?



Yay our guinea pig!! :D

Thanks Film!!!

Refer to this http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nexus+7+2nd+Generation+Teardown/16072/1

Its pretty easy it seems.. nothing legitimately hard at all GOOD LUCK! We're all counting on you.

Author:  MSat [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

I've seen timing controllers that can be configured to accept either LVDS or MIPI, so we might not know anyway. At any rate, what we really need is the panel's datasheet.

Author:  DannyO [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Changing out the display has been one of the main things I have wanted to do with the Rift all along, so I'm very much interested in this process. I'll try to help where I can, but I can't be much of a guinea pig in this. Once we know the details and components I'm in.

Author:  Flim [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

I hate to rip this thing apart without a little more info, because if it could be both based on programming... then we are screwed!

The screen is nice though with the a-cups ... man , big difference! I think this is very use-able until 4k screens come out.

Author:  3dvison [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Flim wrote:
I hate to rip this thing apart without a little more info, because if it could be both based on programming... then we are screwed!

The screen is nice though with the a-cups ... man , big difference! I think this is very use-able until 4k screens come out.


So there is no app. that allows you to use the Nex7-2 as a 2nd display for a PC running windows ?
I thought I had read somewhere, that there was such an app. ???

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

3dvison wrote:
Flim wrote:
I hate to rip this thing apart without a little more info, because if it could be both based on programming... then we are screwed!

The screen is nice though with the a-cups ... man , big difference! I think this is very use-able until 4k screens come out.


So there is no app. that allows you to use the Nex7-2 as a 2nd display for a PC running windows ?
I thought I had read somewhere, that there was such an app. ???



Why would you want that...? Latency man latency!

Film if you take it apart u can retrace your steps and put it together no sweat.. Just take your time and do it step by step in the Ifix it guide.. It hasent failed me yet for my devices..

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nexus+7+ ... wn/16072/1

First step identify the cable and take pics so we can indeed get the LVDS MIPI debockle over with
even better get an extra LVDS cable and see if it plugs into the Nexus 7 controller board. There debockle over and done with.

Then the fun begins we get to looking for a controller that will hook up to the rift or bypass the control box more savy people will know what to do when that part is achieved.

Just take your time and go step by step you can do this! :) Please help us make that A-cup vision a reality.

Author:  3dvison [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Raptor5150 wrote:
3dvison wrote:
Flim wrote:
I hate to rip this thing apart without a little more info, because if it could be both based on programming... then we are screwed!

The screen is nice though with the a-cups ... man , big difference! I think this is very use-able until 4k screens come out.


So there is no app. that allows you to use the Nex7-2 as a 2nd display for a PC running windows ?
I thought I had read somewhere, that there was such an app. ???



Why would you want that...? Latency man latency!

Film if you take it apart u can retrace your steps and put it together no sweat.. Just take your time and do it step by step in the Ifix it guide.. It hasent failed me yet for my devices..

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nexus+7+ ... wn/16072/1


I was thinking more as a look-see at the 1080p screen with the Rift lenses, but I guess he could just check out a Rift video on the Nex7-2 to see how it looks.

Author:  Inscothen [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

http://www.asusparts.eu/en/partfinder/Google/Pad/Nexus/Nexus%207%20(2013)

This place has parts listed for sale but remote stock. You can find the LCD FPC cable, but there's no info. There's also a ASSEM LCD FPC(assembly?).

But the cable type doesn't matter in regards to whether it's MIPI or LVDS unless the cable length exceeds 30cm(the limit for MIPI). I've seen MIPI and LVDS cables of all kinds. For all we know the panel is plugged into a board that has another connector for the FPC cable for use as an extension. Unless the cable says "hey I'm LVDS, yeah, me, I'm a LVDS cable for the Nexus 7 2013. Yeah LVDS, seriously" then we need more info.

With what MSat said about tcon with inputs for LVDS and MIPI, we really need concrete info. Datasheet, or ASUS or JDI contact. Plus pinout and timing, pixel clocks, etc...

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Just emailed Asus themselves about the display cable type hopefully ill get a solid answer this time as its going right to the repair techs.

Ill keep you guys posted!


Film keep practicing!

Author:  MSat [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Looking at the iFixit photos, you can see 12 traces on one side of the panel's ribbon cable, and two more on the other side with the remainder being a ground plane.

Not sure what the max resolution typically is over single channel LVDS, but assuming 1200p needs 2 - that requires at least 8 pairs (10 for 24bpp). That automatically excludes the Nexus7 2.0 from being LVDS if there are indeed only 14 + ground traces on the cable.

Author:  Falan [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

I thought Geekmaster would be all over this, isn't he normally knee-deep in custom parts etc

Author:  geekmaster [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Falan wrote:
I thought Geekmaster would be all over this, isn't he normally knee-deep in custom parts etc
Busy. Following less threads, and less often lately. Sorry... ;)

But I am interested in this and I am following this thread. I will probably do this when it is good to go, but rather than hacking my Rift I would build a DIY HMD around it using different lenses.

P.S. Not knee deep. Way over my head in parts. To make the stuff I want, I cannot clone myself, so I need an apprentice or three... ;)

Author:  LaserEdge [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

If you guys want this project to work your going to need the data sheet of the LCD panel. You MUST know the pin-outs of the connector be it MIPI or LVDS. Also you need to know the make and model of the FPC connectors being used with panel as well. The position of the pads on the end of the FPC cable varies even when the pad pitch remains the same. They have to match very closely or connections cable to pad will not be made or in the worst case you short some pads possibly killing the panel.

Looking at the Ifixit pictures the panel has E50T322A stamped on the back of it. To me that looks like model numbering scheme that AUO uses on their panels. Isn't the first gen Nexus 7 an AUO panel as well? If it is it give more leaning towards it being an AUO panel. Less engineering design cost to use a new model AUO panel. They likely worked directly with AUO to have them make a new panel specific to their requirements. Once you have the model number you can work on getting the data sheet.

I would guess it is MIPI-DSI. Increasing battery time is a huge design priority. Currently MIPI-DSI is the way go if you want to minimize power spent on interfacing to the LCD panel.

Author:  Inscothen [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Everything I've seen says JDI lt070me5000 for the panel. I saw rumors saying AUO too so maybe JDI designed the panel and AUO is manufacturing it. Maybe both are manufacturing those panels to make sure they have enough panels if JDI can't produce a large enough supply.

Author:  LaserEdge [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Inscothen wrote:
Everything I've seen says JDI lt070me5000 for the panel. I saw rumors saying AUO too so maybe JDI designed the panel and AUO is manufacturing it. Maybe both are manufacturing those panels to make sure they have enough panels if JDI can't produce a large enough supply.


Could be both are manufacturing it. It is common supply chain practice to have at least two sources for major parts such as the LCD panel. Don't see any markings in the picture that would indicate a JDI manufactured panel. Either way getting the data sheet is a MUST.

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

How would we get said data sheet though? Especially from a Japanese display company? I already contacted Asus about the panel connection type. Still gotta hear back from them

Author:  LaserEdge [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Raptor5150 wrote:
How would we get said data sheet though? Especially from a Japanese display company? I already contacted Asus about the panel connection type. Still gotta hear back from them


Once you know the model number you contact sales. Datasheets are given with a RFQ usually. They want to know how many you plan on buying and what company you are with. If they see you are not really planning to buy anything they are not likely to waste their time with you. Once a panel gets into distribution you can try the distributor as well. Same deal with them, but they tend to be easier to get datasheets from.

Author:  zacherynuk [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

I should have my N7.2 on Monday....

Rest assured it'll be in pieces by Monday night and photos on here... I have a fair collection of things here to try and plug the panel into - but I expect a bang and fizzle.

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

WOOOHOO ZACH you should so do a live stream! :D

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

"Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
My name is Emma and it is my pleasure to help you with your problem.

The materials for Nexus 7 2013 haven't been released to our official ASUS website so I need to pass it to the department in TW for the answer.
I will inform you later.
It may take some time.
Sorry for waiting and thanks for your kindly understanding"

Yay more waiting...

Author:  Inscothen [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

What did you ask them?

Author:  geekmaster [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

Raptor5150 wrote:
"Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
My name is Emma and it is my pleasure to help you with your problem. ...
I contacted ASUS tech support about getting a replacement display for my 1280x800 Nexus 7. They wanted MORE for a replacement display than I could buy a NEW Nexus 7 for from Google. They would not sell me a display unless I sent them my N7 and they installed it.

My display still works but the glued-on digitizer panel is cracked and non-functional, so I use it (rarely) with an external USB keyboard/mouse. Repair costs more than just buying a new unit, in which case I would have two units and save money.

I would expect a similar problem with the new display if you go through ASUS.

Where the glass is cracked off the corner, there is a layer of rubbery glue, like hot-melt adhesive. Perhaps the cover digitizer glass may be removed from the LCD with heat. What else can remove a film of hot-melt glue (EVA) from the display surface after removing the digitizer glass?

Or you can buy LCD only from eBay for the N7. Perhaps the new LCD will show up there too...

Author:  KBK [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

It's going to be a good 2 to nearly 3 months before these panels show up in the wild.

Author:  Raptor5150 [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nexus 7 2nd Gen 1920x1200. Possible drop-in replacement?

KBK wrote:
It's going to be a good 2 to nearly 3 months before these panels show up in the wild.


This is correct. So as long as we know something works with the dev kit if someone wants to buy a new N7 just for this they can.

If they want to wait for replacement displays on ebay they can do that too.


Also I just asked them to confirm if it has MIPI or LVDS its something atleast.

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