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 MTBS3D community questions for Palmer? 
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Cross Eyed!

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rmcclelland wrote:
I can image all the long hours are hard on relationships. In my opinion, to be wildly successful, you have to be talented, charming, AND put in crazy hours (plus a bit of luck... and good looks :D). There is no other way. I hope everything works out for you on that front.

It's a problem that afflicts every creative and dedicated person. People like company. Something I've found works is to install another PC at the back of the living room (with the minimum software it boots in seconds and becomes the 'go to' device). That way you don't unnecessarily 'hide yourself away' at work or in the study. It really makes a difference.

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Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:36 am
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I have a question! :)

How do you feel the experience is when you have a "driver" Rift and a "passenger" Rift? My wife and I often play games together, where only one of us is playing and the other is watching, and both viewing the same screen. It's obviously not possible for two people to view the same Rift, and having the spectator instead watch the warped/split picture on a monitor (as in the press demos) won't exactly be very fun. How have you found the experience to be when you have 2x Rifts, with the spectator just seeing a duplicate image of what's being displayed on the 'primary' Rift? Does it work well? Is it disorientating, or uncomfortable, to have your vision "steered" by someone else?

(edited post for clarity)

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Last edited by TheHolyChicken on Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:05 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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That's a cool idea. One could implement an observer idea by making the observer turn on "ghost mode" and become instantly invisible from the perspective of the player while the spectator would maintain complete independence to move around inside the same virtual environment, seeing all that's happening.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:18 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I have already asked these questions in the Rift threat... but after seeing this thread I guess I would really like to hear the answers Palmer Luckey might have to them... oh, and I´ve added a new, personal one for him:

1. As I understand it and see it in the videos, the screen is basically divided in two halfs showing basically the same thing - doesn`t that mean, that we have an about half as wide field of view than we would have on a monitor? And basically a larger vertical field of view than a horizontal? To me that seems kinda odd...

2. I am not a programmer by any means - but I can code a bit and enjoy level editors, so I would be intrigues to try some things. How easy would it be to get UDK or Unity creations into the rift? Is it basically just checking a box ("add support for Rift") - or do I have to really code it in there somehow?

3. For people that have already tried it - how immersive is it? Do you really get the feeling that for example this knight is physically standing right in front of you - or is it like great 3D really close to the screen?

3. Positional tracking seems to be the biggest thing missing from the developer kit - is that something that could be added later with a software update, or is the necessary hardware missing from the devkit?

4. How easy will it be to get and load user created content? I can only imagine what you guys will produce - and I can`t wait to wander on famous movie sets, see historical events, walk the moon or dive the great barrier reef - but like I said, I am not a programmer, so would it be easy to get and use those?

5. Any idea when the consumer version comes out? I know there is no release date yet, but is there a timetable of some sort? Like this year, early next year, christmas next year... something like that. I am really tempted to get the devkit. But it wouldn`t be here till May probably or even later - and if the consumer version comes out only a few months later I guess I´d rather wait.

6. I only recently learned that you are only 20 years old - how did you get this thing started? Is there anywhere to read about your story? I know you`ve built stuff in your garage and are an enthusiast, but I imagine it is very hard to meet the right people, persuade them and get the funding, material and also knowledge to get a thing like this running - and seemingly make all the big studios look stupid... maybe in 50 years we will say your name in the same sentence as Steve Jobs...


Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:07 am
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6. I only recently learned that you are only 20 years old - how did you get this thing started? Is there anywhere to read about your story? I know you`ve built stuff in your garage and are an enthusiast, but I imagine it is very hard to meet the right people, persuade them and get the funding, material and also knowledge to get a thing like this running - and seemingly make all the big studios look stupid... maybe in 50 years we will say your name in the same sentence as Steve Jobs...



In regards to Oculus, go read the first page on the Kickstarter thread to see how it began.
viewtopic.php?f=140&t=14777

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Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:37 am
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@LikeMike, I'll try to answer some of these questions for you.

1.
The game engine renders the scene at the correct FOV of the Rift's optics for each half, which as I understand it is about 90 degrees horizontal, and 110 vertical. It has nothing to do with the display being split into halves.

2.
UDK and Unity will probably just be a matter of "checking the box", though I imagine there will be some customizable options that you will explicitly specify.

3.
I haven't tried it, but in theory, if you design your game objects/worlds with proper scale, objects can appear just as they do in real life. A knight will be just as 3D in the game as if a real one was standing in front of you.

4.
It should be identical to creating any content in a 3D engine.

5.
It's likely that not even Oculus currently knows when the consumer version will be released. There's still much to learn about creating content suitable for VR - and that's one of the main goals of the dev-kit.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:48 am
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I wish this forum had Thanks buttons for people who post helpful posts, for example like they do on XDA. Any chance of that happening? I find myself reaching for a Thanks button that isn't there every time there is a post like Namielus' or MSat's:P


Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:10 pm
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This is not Palmers forum, you are better off asking Neil.

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Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:12 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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When seeing the response at CES I'm curious:
In a few long months all 10.000 of us will have a rift to show to our friends, family, coworkers and every stranger on the bus that we'll explain to how great the Rift is. Given the response a single prototype has evoked, I'm expecting demand - even for the dev kit - to skyrocket in March/April. I'm wondering what the strategy of Oculus will be?

I'm guessing they've got investors knocking on their door to bridge the time until the consumer version arrives while limiting the number of dev kits. Or will they keep out investors to keep independant (and keep 100% of the company) while selling dev kits to fund development of the consumer version?
I'm not really expecting an answer, and I'm sure it's a tough decision.
At least I think they did the right thing so far starting with a dev kit. The future will depend on the software support. And I'm sure one of the brilliant minds on this forum will develop an unexpected and creative killer app that will make the consumer version huge.

PS. I just realized February is only 28 days, suddenly the wait seems a bit shorter, I'm filled with joy :D


Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:39 pm
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If they keep on managing to sell dev kits, then their profit margins should increase. The kickstarter campaign allowed them to pay for the tooling and production line setup without having to go to typical investors. So now with the tooling already paid for, any additional units that they sell should turn a reasonably good profit. If they can get their hands on a higher resolution 7" panel, they could possibly make an interim consumer version at no additional cost to production aside from the likely increased price of the LCD panel itself. Since they're using steel molds that should last for a million shots or more, they might have a legitimate incentive to keep the form factor going for a little while and build up some revenue to pay for the R&D of the final consumer version. If Oculus ever goes public, I'm buying stock 8-)


Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:31 pm
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MSat wrote:
If Oculus ever goes public, I'm buying stock 8-)


For sure.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:01 pm
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FingerFlinger wrote:
MSat wrote:
If Oculus ever goes public, I'm buying stock 8-)


For sure.




That would depend on when they went public. If its long after they ship the consumer edition and saturate the market with Rifts. Then probably not. This is a great product, but a one product company can be risky. It does'nt become easier after the rift reach's market acceptance it becomes harder. Competition will not stand idly by while Oculus takes all their market share. That said. Palmer and the Oculus team have my best wish's. And i'd love nothing more than to see Sony and Microsoft groveling at their feet. However unlikely that might be.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:20 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Metathias wrote:
FingerFlinger wrote:
MSat wrote:
If Oculus ever goes public, I'm buying stock 8-)


For sure.




That would depend on when they went public. If its long after they ship the consumer edition and saturate the market with Rifts. Then probably not. This is a great product, but a one product company can be risky. It does'nt become easier after the rift reach's market acceptance it becomes harder. Competition will not stand idly by while Oculus takes all their market share. That said. Palmer and the Oculus team have my best wish's. And i'd love nothing more than to see Sony and Microsoft groveling at their feet. However unlikely that might be.




The thing is, Oculus doesn't have to be strictly a hardware company. They could create technology related to VR and license it not unlike what Dolby Labs does for audio, Sony does for BlueRay, etc. It's about innovating in the VR sphere, which isn't just simply HMDs. There's a lot of work to be done in VR, and potentially a lot of money to be made.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:51 pm
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I'm not Palmer, but I know some answers:
LikeMike wrote:
1. As I understand it and see it in the videos, the screen is basically divided in two halfs showing basically the same thing - doesn`t that mean, that we have an about half as wide field of view than we would have on a monitor? And basically a larger vertical field of view than a horizontal? To me that seems kinda odd...

1. Only if your monitor is really really really huge or you are sitting really really really close. Your head needs to be exactly a quarter the width of the screen away from your monitor for the monitor to be (almost) twice as wide as a Rift. Yes, it's a larger vertical field of view than horizontal. Yes it's a bit odd, but that's not a bad thing. The Rift is really huge horizontally, and really really huge vertically. And I for one, am perfectly happy with that.

If you are talking about the game camera's field of view, rather than your real eye's field of view, then the Rift still has a slightly wider horizontal field of view than most (if not all) games normally use.

Quote:
3. For people that have already tried it - how immersive is it? Do you really get the feeling that for example this knight is physically standing right in front of you - or is it like great 3D really close to the screen?

I haven't tried it, but I've watched videos of people who have. Very immersive. Yes. Some people verbally apologised to him for bumping into him, others jumped when they saw him. It's better than great 3D really close to the screen, because normally in 3D the screen edges look like they're overlapping things that should be popping out in front of them, which destroys some of the 3D effect, but the Rift has a much bigger FOV so that doesn't happen, it feels like there's no screen. Also the scales are all wrong in normal 3D, but on the Rift everything is exactly life size and the right dimensions.

Quote:
6. ... I know you`ve built stuff in your garage and are an enthusiast, but I imagine it is very hard to meet the right people, persuade them and get the funding, material and also knowledge to get a thing like this running - and seemingly make all the big studios look stupid...

He met the right people right here in this forum.


Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:59 am
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Is Oculus looking to hire in about 4½ years? Because by then I'll hopefully have finished my EE master(s). :D

No really, I just came here to say i really hope VR takes off this time, and I can't wait to be able to work in the field!

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Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:38 am
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@Oculus, any talks with Crytek on possible integration with CryENGINE 3 SDK?


Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:56 pm
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@Oculus, any talks with Crytek on possible integration with CryENGINE 3 SDK?


Confirmed for Star Citizen, uses CryEngine 3.


Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:23 pm
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Direlight wrote:
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@Oculus, any talks with Crytek on possible integration with CryENGINE 3 SDK?


Confirmed for Star Citizen, uses CryEngine 3.


Star Citizen is slated to enter alpha in Q4 2013. While they will be using a modified CryENGINE 3, there's no way to say this is an indication of official support in the CryENGINE 3 SDK.


Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:59 pm
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Daloots wrote:
When seeing the response at CES I'm curious:
In a few long months all 10.000 of us will have a rift to show to our friends, family, coworkers and every stranger on the bus that we'll explain to how great the Rift is. Given the response a single prototype has evoked, I'm expecting demand - even for the dev kit - to skyrocket in March/April. I'm wondering what the strategy of Oculus will be?

I'm guessing they've got investors knocking on their door to bridge the time until the consumer version arrives while limiting the number of dev kits. Or will they keep out investors to keep independant (and keep 100% of the company) while selling dev kits to fund development of the consumer version?

He says he doesn't make a penny on the dev kit.

"I won't make a penny of profit off this project, the goal is to pay for the costs of parts, manufacturing, shipping, and credit card/Kickstarter fees with about $10 left over for a celebratory pizza and beer."

My guess is that they manufacture enough dev kits to fill all the orders, save a few in case a special developer turns up and then start focusing fully on the consumer product. For they have to strike while the iron is hot. If it takes too long for the consumer product to arrive, they will lose out on all the buzz and interest they've created. For if you hype something for too long, it always becomes overhyped, which too many people have been let down by and don't want to experience again. So it is best if they focus fully on the consumer product as soon as possible.


Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:26 am
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He probably have at least one investor already since its impossible that he can fund the whole company from just the kickstarter money.


Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:11 am
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virror wrote:
He probably have at least one investor already since its impossible that he can fund the whole company from just the kickstarter money.

They might. People take paycuts for startups to make money later.


Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:34 am
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If the rift revives my boredom in seeing the same old thing in games for years, Ill fund them with the shirt on my back. For once in a long time, I would like to play a game for more than a few hours without tiring of it. :)

This of course isn't to say the last decade of graphics hardware/software enhancements weren't entirely worth it. If it weren't for those we wouldn't be here.

With the impressions well known, I would be surprised if they weren't being asked to accept funding.


Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:17 am
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I fear my earlier question got lost in the din, but I would love a response from anyone at Oculus :)

TheHolyChicken wrote:
I have a question! :)

How do you feel the experience is when you have a "driver" Rift and a "passenger" Rift? My wife and I often play games together, where only one of us is playing and the other is watching, and both viewing the same screen. It's obviously not possible for two people to view the same Rift, and having the spectator instead watch the warped/split picture on a monitor (as in the press demos) won't exactly be very fun. How have you found the experience to be when you have 2x Rifts, with the spectator just seeing a duplicate image of what's being displayed on the 'primary' Rift? Does it work well? Is it disorientating, or uncomfortable, to have your vision "steered" by someone else?

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Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:29 pm
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TheHolyChicken wrote:
I fear my earlier question got lost in the din, but I would love a response from anyone at Oculus :)

TheHolyChicken wrote:
I have a question! :)

How do you feel the experience is when you have a "driver" Rift and a "passenger" Rift? My wife and I often play games together, where only one of us is playing and the other is watching, and both viewing the same screen. It's obviously not possible for two people to view the same Rift, and having the spectator instead watch the warped/split picture on a monitor (as in the press demos) won't exactly be very fun. How have you found the experience to be when you have 2x Rifts, with the spectator just seeing a duplicate image of what's being displayed on the 'primary' Rift? Does it work well? Is it disorientating, or uncomfortable, to have your vision "steered" by someone else?


I bet the spectator would be more prone to motion sickness. I wonder if there is anyway they could send an unwarped, 2D image of what the user is seeing to a secondary screen.


Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:46 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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It will definitely make you sick.


Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:54 pm
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virror wrote:
He probably have at least one investor already since its impossible that he can fund the whole company from just the kickstarter money.


I think their initial funding came from Palmer's family and friends, etc. Then when the Gaikai/Scaleform folks joined the team, they brought a bunch of funding with them. Gaikai was bought by Sony and Scaleform was bought by Autodesk.


Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:59 pm
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We still adding to this thread or should we make a new thread for the next volley?

My question: Will Oculus be hosting smaller projects and freeware? Currently there's no main "Clearinghouse" for Oculus software. We are already seeing Oculus-ready projects popping up. My guess would be that in six months or so there will be thousands. It would be great if we had somewhere to showcase our more interesting projects and experiments.


Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:24 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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TheHolyChicken wrote:
I have a question! :)

How do you feel the experience is when you have a "driver" Rift and a "passenger" Rift? My wife and I often play games together, where only one of us is playing and the other is watching, and both viewing the same screen. It's obviously not possible for two people to view the same Rift, and having the spectator instead watch the warped/split picture on a monitor (as in the press demos) won't exactly be very fun. How have you found the experience to be when you have 2x Rifts, with the spectator just seeing a duplicate image of what's being displayed on the 'primary' Rift? Does it work well? Is it disorientating, or uncomfortable, to have your vision "steered" by someone else?


How about -actual- driver and passenger? That would certainly be interesting.. the second could for example navigate in off-road racing games. :P


Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:46 pm
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Yeah, co-op would be the coolest experience, instead of 1 playing and 1 watching, waaay more fun!


Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:18 am
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Are eyelashes being rubbed against lenses (how much space is between the surface of the eye and surface of the lens)?

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Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:37 am
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Palmer, have you been able to find a company willing to produce or modify a display that can run at speeds greater than 60hz?


Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:22 am
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3trip wrote:
Palmer, have you been able to find a company willing to produce or modify a display that can run at speeds greater than 60hz?



regarding a HMD, vs that of a portable panel and driver, the problem is one of the circuitry and overall electronics being oriented toward low power consumption. To continually drive power consumption down.

This inherently means sacrifices in design regarding speed, and associated areas.

The hardware is available for high framing rates, but it is not sized nor is it designed to be implemented with the the low power designs.

That it can be done, yes, but existing hardware availability and compatibility...means there is currently a schism.

An existing board design would have to be ferreted out...paired with the display unit, tested, then if found to be efficacious, then re-executed for the HMD use. (with licensing, of course).

Such a course might actually be easier and faster, and less expensive than any finished panel/board producers could be, than lets say turning to Sharp, Panasonic, and so on. With the big companies...design cycles, up-front commitments and expenses can get messy.

10 bit depth is preferable than that of native 8 bit. There are reasons for this.

edit:

OTOH, if a big company sees a market, they will generally step up to the plate, with little prompting. That the experimental builds will be done quickly, and, most importantly... on their tab. Depends.

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Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:52 am
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Has Oculus Rift a gaming peripheral in mind? Since your Sensor is working
with 1000 HZ and measures Rotation wouldnt it be possible to make a
Rifle Controller. Would it be precise enough?


Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:03 pm
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I got a question
I'm thinking about the fact that we need the game to be displayed twice in 60FPS, is there a specific graphic card that occulus would recommend more than the others? Same question for the rest of the hardware: could oculus recommend us all the significant pieces that would help us building a PC that's gonna display double 60FPS while still able to play the game in high or ultra quality?
I already know for sure my old card isn't gonna render the game twice at double 60FPS
thanks in advance

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Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:10 am
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shiva wrote:
I got a question
I'm thinking about the fact that we need the game to be displayed twice in 60FPS, is there a specific graphic card that occulus would recommend more than the others? Same question for the rest of the hardware: could oculus recommend us all the significant pieces that would help us building a PC that's gonna display double 60FPS while still able to play the game in high or ultra quality?
I already know for sure my old card isn't gonna render the game twice at double 60FPS
thanks in advance


The general consensus is if you can currently run games with a 1080p resolution at 60 FPS, you should be fine. The dev kit resolution is 1200 x 800 so that offsets some of the cost of the stereo 3D.


Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:12 am
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Yeah, if it helps you work it out 1200x800 comes out at a similar pixel count to 720p (960,000 vs 921,600).

But you will be rendering from two points of view which will cut the framerate...

I am assuming that Oculus are unlikely to recommend a graphics card unless they are affiliated with the company that makes it or have some kind of deal.

I am usually an ati/AMD guy for graphics cards, but I am swaying towards paying the extra £50 or so and getting an nVidia for the rift, for a few reasons.


Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:23 am
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Diorama wrote:
...so and getting an nVidia for the rift, for a few reasons.


I dont get how the GPU brand really matters at all when it comes to OR. Since the 3D gonna be native to the game
or handled with a 3rd party like Vireo or similar. Its all about how much pixels the gpu can push and maybe some AA
protocol that makes any diffference whatsoever, right?


Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:49 am
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Callezetter wrote:
Diorama wrote:
...so and getting an nVidia for the rift, for a few reasons.


I dont get how the GPU brand really matters at all when it comes to OR. Since the 3D gonna be native to the game
or handled with a 3rd party like Vireo or similar. Its all about how much pixels the gpu can push and maybe some AA
protocol that makes any diffference whatsoever, right?


Not entirely. There is also the issue of drivers to consider. The general consensus is that the NVidia drivers are slightly less of a headache than the Catalyst stuff.


Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:53 am
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Sure when it comes to general stereo3d and gamesupport, Nvidia might have the upper hand.

But in OR case, the Stereo3D is done natively or with a 3rd party.

I dont get how brand matters then :)


Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:59 am
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People may also find this article to be of interest: http://techreport.com/review/21516/inside-the-second-a-new-look-at-game-benchmarking
It's pretty long and in-depth, but a very good read. It explores alternative ways of measuring the game experience instead of using FPS, and may give you pause for thought before you jump into a big purchase.

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