HMD help, and introduction.

Talk about Head Mounted Displays (HMDs), augmented reality, wearable computing, controller hardware, haptic feedback, motion tracking, and related topics here!
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cybereality
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by cybereality »

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:Guys, check this out:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/vuzix- ... _news_stmp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Interesting but I doubt it means much for the consumer market. Plus, only 37 degrees FOV. Weak.

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

Anyway interesting that Vuzix actually makes something new. We can only hope that they will incorporate this technology in customer products any time soon.
100% Agree that 37 degree FOV is small, however considering this device as see-through AR, 37 degree could be enough for they're application needs.

About FOV - recently I purchased Liquid Image MRG2.2, old monoscopic (but binocular) low-res (720 x 240) high-FOV (120 degree diagonal) HMD.

Image

Image

Image

Of course it's old and bulky, but FOV wise it's amazing, it have 120 degree diagonal FOV.
And after using MRG 2.2 for experiments my VR920 imagery looks very tiny lol ;) .

I clearly see now, when it goes to immersion - FOV have big privilege over stereo and resolution.
And yes - when peripheral vision engaged you start to feel that your vestibular apparatus tricked as well, and this is most amazing about it.
Still need to run a few planned tests of it on my own demos, and afterwards I think to make retrospective review for this HMD.
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by crim3 »

wow! it's massive! :shock:
Are you going to try anaglyph with it?
Looking forward to your review.
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by cybereality »

Damn! Thats a beast. Looks very cool, 120 degrees is sick. Too bad its not 3D.

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by PalmerTech »

Like I have said elsewhere, I am currently playing with my own MRG2.2, upgraded the LCD to 1280x800. My shell is white and green, your silver one looks nice!

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

PalmerTech wrote:Like I have said elsewhere, I am currently playing with my own MRG2.2, upgraded the LCD to 1280x800. My shell is white and green, your silver one looks nice!
Hello PalmerTech! I saw your posts on Stereo3D :)
Wow man, please can you share how you upgrade it? What panel did you use, etc.
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Okta »

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:
PalmerTech wrote:Like I have said elsewhere, I am currently playing with my own MRG2.2, upgraded the LCD to 1280x800. My shell is white and green, your silver one looks nice!
Hello PalmerTech! I saw your posts on Stereo3D :)
Wow man, please can you share how you upgrade it? What panel did you use, etc.
Any good to you? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/5-6inch-TFT-LCD- ... 439f375886" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

Yeah wonderfull! Okta, Thanks!
I need to buy one of those definitely...
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Okta »

Check the rest of that guys store, im still not sure which ones i want to get, need to do more testing.
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by PalmerTech »

I would love to update/elaborate, but the only internet access I have currently is via my Zune HD, keyboard sucks. I will be back from this trip next Thursday, expect some cool info. :)

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

Mnemonic, sup bud.. Does that have a fresnel lens of some sort to give that big fov? Compare this to our very beloved Vuzix if you can, you know I molded some vuzix's into a helmet so I closed out the outside light but give me some pro's and con's. Forget about the 3d as the MRG2 can't do it. How do the games look still through s-video etc. Now im woundering about that 1280x800 vga, what about that power box that connects to the hmd, did palmer make a new one or bypass?

Ku

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Okta »

MRG2.2 dissasembly

http://www.vrtifacts.com/hmds/liquid-im ... -upgrades/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

I hate projects, the wife is gonna kill me if I try this one. LMAO I wish I got to try one back in the day when we were playing DOOM.

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Likay »

Cool. Interesting that one single lense seems enough. I wonder if the image from those suffers from peripheral distortion?
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

Likay wrote:Cool. Interesting that one single lense seems enough. I wonder if the image from those suffers from peripheral distortion?
With low-res image seem's somehow blury all over the screen, but I don't see any distortions on the peripheral.
By the way, so far one of the best looking stuff for MRG2.2, and I suppose for other high-fov solutions is Fisheye Quake: http://strlen.com/gfxengine/fisheyequake/, looks much more natural than conventional linear-perspective rendering.

Image
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by SinSilla »

Hey!

As some of you may know i´m also doing a mod quite similar to that HighRes MRG2.2, only difference: I´m using the VFX-1 as a shell.

Just wanted to share my latest update! (though i still refer to it as Frankenstein).

Image

Image

I kinda like what i have put there together with my very limited craftman-skill! :mrgreen:

Works as it should in it´s current state, but still have a lot of work to do.


Greetings,

Sin

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

Will you incorporate head-tracker inside SinSilla?

This could be the one, in case you decide to use out-of-the-shelf solution:
http://www.pnicorp.com/products/all/spacepoint-fusion
Looks like it can be fitted in the VFX shell.
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by SinSilla »

Thanks for that link! Didn't knew that one, looks interesting!

I was going to get a Gyration Mouse for the beginning since my preferred games usually don´t support proper head tracking.

And yes, i wanted to place the tracker in the back of the unit, enough room left and makes for a good counterweight.

I´m still waiting for the Razer Sixense as this one will be the tracker that i´ll upgrade too.

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

Sin,

You gonna be using anything like a magnifier or Frensel lens to make it bigger? What size lcd you working with?

Not bad man keep it going, glad to see the VFX1 shell being used, I love that shell! :)

Ku

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

LOL, This is what happens when you do something and sell it to the wrong guy... :(

Such a nice job I did on the paint, I think he upgraded them to the dual Z800, but still, that was al me...

Ku

http://www.cwonline.com/store/view_prod ... oduct=1375" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

VRgamesterz wrote:LOL, This is what happens when you do something and sell it to the wrong guy... :(

Such a nice job I did on the paint, I think he upgraded them to the dual Z800, but still, that was al me...

Ku

http://www.cwonline.com/store/view_prod ... oduct=1375" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Holy... what a price-tag...
Anyway great work on helm VRgamesterz!

I suppose I will not cut my HMD's anytime soon, I like them in pure, "historical" condition :)
But I do want to build something-like Flogiston chair, during this summer.
I guess this would be a good addition to home VR system.

Image

Image

http://flogistondesign.com/chair.htm
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by SinSilla »

If there only would be a way to fit that all inside the shell...but options are limited when using such a large display.
It´s the 5,6" Hydis wxga panel.

Here some shots "in action"

Image

Image

Lens is an Eschenbach Aspheric II.

And that was indeed a nice paintjob Ku! :)

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by cybereality »

Very nice setup! I still wish I could build an HMD.

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by crim3 »

Johnny-Mnemonic wrote:Will you incorporate head-tracker inside SinSilla?

This could be the one, in case you decide to use out-of-the-shelf solution:
http://www.pnicorp.com/products/all/spacepoint-fusion
Looks like it can be fitted in the VFX shell.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o For 99$!! How is that possible?
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

Phillip , does the vga board have to be that close to the lcd screen? No way of extending those cables, woundered if that could be put in it's own box of some type.

Johnny M,

What else have you done with this in it's orginal state? I know you were doing some testing, do anything FUN!

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by SinSilla »

Hey,

unfortunately, in my case, i am very limited due to the rather short connection between controller and display.
The cable (loose wires) is secured with hot-glue on the controller side, so for me there was no way to extend it.

But since Jianbo of Vitrolight is quite communicative you could always ask him to make it longer if you decide to order from him.

I don´t know if i understood you right, but before i went the 5,6" way i was fiddling with other display sizes and lenses (including dual 3,5") but found none of those combinations convenient enough (i was aiming at a wide FoV).

Since friday i´ve got the sound working as well, and assembled the unit as good as possible and did some early cable-management. Now i can use the unit quite easily and almost comfortable. Watching movies has been amazing so far, tried some Oblivion and Dirt 2 as well, which was also a nice experience.

But i guess i won´t be using the unit for longer periods of time since eyestrain will definetely become a problem.
I might try to get more space between the display and the lens (right now it´s ~ 2") to achieve the best magnification and probably reducing some of the eyestrain.

Still, i´m very happy with my results so far and i´m definetely in love with my new gadget!

€: Btw, i failed hard at keeping enough room for installing a tracker inside the unit. :D

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

Hahahaah! I like the avatar, pretty cool.

Nice work, very nice to see more mods with the VFX shell. So 2 inches is what's between the magnifier and the screen, I wounder if that was the same for the MRG2.2, the video from Tony seemed like it was close. I wounder if that Magnifier you got is close to the one in the MRG, what was the mag 2x, 3x?

Sin, do have any good :anaglyph glasses to try out some 3D and really cause some strain on your eyes!!! :woot

Ku

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by SinSilla »

Hehe, thank you!

I indeed tried anaglyph 3d with my setup: The negative effects get enhanced (color shift and ghosting seems even worse than before) while the only positive effect (depth) is weakened somehow. So this is definitely not an option.

But as i have mentioned somewhere else, depth perception is very nice with the lens alone.

The lenses should almost be identical (well, mine should be of better quality 8-) ).
Both have the exact same size, both are aspheric and should therefore have almost equal magnification values (my lens is 7,6 dpt / 3x)

But i´ll have to do some more fine-tuning to get the best ratio of sharpness/magnification/fov possible.
I´ll have to move the lens about 0,3"-0,4" closer to the eyes and the distance between display and lens has to be extended by another 0,7".


Greetings,

Sin

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by PalmerTech »

Actually, I am pretty sure the MRG2.2 lens is 6x magnification. It is very, very curved.

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by SinSilla »

Hm, where'd you get that from?

I don´t know how that should work out, i´ve watched the teardown video of the MRG2.2 a couple of times and the distance between the lens and the display seems to be almost the same as in my setup. With an magnification factor of 6 on that distance you would barely see 50% of the image. Unless i´m having an error in reasoning of course. ^^

I´m not that deep into optics, but i doubt that two lenses with the same size and characteristics (just watched it again, curvature also seems to be pretty much the same) can have a difference in diopters of more than 12? Don´t know, if so that would be very interesting. At least i couldn´t find any lens that would come close to such specs.

Does anyone have a spare lens of an MRG2.2 left and would sell it? I would really love to compare it to other lenses.

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by mayaman »

I just bought an MRG2.2 from v-artifacts in what he says is mint operational condition. My question is this.

1. Would this work?

http://www.agilentpixel.com/product.php?id_product=127" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


2. How or where could I get a much longer ribbon cable so I could put the controller on the desk and not sticking out of the helmet.

With just this I should have an unbelievable hmd. :D



Thanks guys :)

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

mayaman wrote:I just bought an MRG2.2 from v-artifacts in what he says is mint operational condition. My question is this.

1. Would this work?

http://www.agilentpixel.com/product.php?id_product=127" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


2. How or where could I get a much longer ribbon cable so I could put the controller on the desk and not sticking out of the helmet.

With just this I should have an unbelievable hmd. :D



Thanks guys :)
I think if you would like to rip off MRG - just ask Tony, maybe he already have not working units on lesser price, why buy full working historically accurate HMD to rip off it's internals?

P.S. LCD panel looks pretty cool, however it's 5.6", I believe MRG have 5.4" native panel
P.S.2. Sorry guys we have very hot summer now, so I dropped my test with HMDs for a few weeks.
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by mayaman »

Well I wanted a clean working example of the hmd. Usually non working models have been abused and several components my be missing or in poor condition. So better to start off with a good example.

Does anybody know how I can expand the ribbon cable on this. http://www.agilentpixel.com/product.php?id_product=127" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's the perfect LCD for this project. The mrg LCD is 5.7 and so is this panel. And it has hdmi for my ps3 and xbox. If anybody has a link to something better, or an idea of how to make a longer controller cable please let us know.

:)

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by mayaman »

Got my mrg, man this thing is sweet. I can't wait to start my project but none of these LCD companies return my emails. :(

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

Welt this is what I've come up with, may not be on the button, but close. The mag lens is 4 1/4 x 2 1/4, this was edge to edge . They made some cuts for it to fit in the welders visor on the top and bottom, the cut out for the nose is cool but I didn't really feel the need to have my face that tight. The sharp lcd screen is about 1 inch thick, im sure the new lcd's are half that if that . I measured the distance from the lcd to where it might reach the lens and that was at the center about 1 1/2 to 1 1/4 , the edges it seemed like 2.
The mag lens seems to be 7/8 of an inch thick. I did find on ebay the lens that seems to be like this one, around $35. Im not sure if it has the same xx factor. I think the one on ebay was 3x, but the size was the same.

So taking into account these figures, I don't see a prob having the 5.6 lcd , there is alot of the screen that you don't see without the magnifier, the top and bottom.

So this should be fun seeing we have a few trying this fit. Oh also the vga board I think will fit nice in the front cover behind the lcd screen, just need alittle hole for the vga cable and power to exit.

Ku

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by Johnny-Mnemonic »

mayaman wrote:Got my mrg, man this thing is sweet. I can't wait to start my project but none of these LCD companies return my emails. :(
Hope you will succeed!
Keep my fingers crossed.
I'm like MRG 2.2 alot myself.
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by PalmerTech »

Well, since this thread seems to have turned into the de-facto "DIY monoscopic HMD" thread... :lol:

I found something very interesting! As I am sure many of you know, the MRG 2.2 uses very simple optics, a 4"x2", roughly, magnifying lens. Of course, this is very, very near the limit of fitting a 5.6" panel, and has some edge distortion... Check this out:

http://www.amazon.com/Bausch-Lomb-Magni ... B000JHRJQM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only 2x, but the viewing area is much larger! 4"x5"! And according to the reviews, it is excellent quality (As one would expect from Bausch & Lomb!

This should remove the problems of the, frankly, poor quality MRG2.2 lens... And also open up the possibility of using 7" panels, which are far more common, albeit in slightly lower resolutions than the 5.6" Hydis panel. Either way, having a viewing lens aperture that large has many advantages! I will also need to trim on the bottom for my nose, but that is easy, only acrylic after all. :)

I am buying one tomorrow, if nobody has any reasons to not do so! I may be on hiatus from much gaming or building, but I can get ready in the meanwhile. :)

mayaman
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by mayaman »

These guys for the LCD panels don't return emails, WTF!!!!

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VRgamesterz
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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by VRgamesterz »

Palmer, sad to hear your not working on to much of late!!! Funny you found that mag, just the other day I went to walmart with the wife to check on new glasses for her and was looking at some magnifiers and that was one that I took out of the box, it fits over the neck and has rubber feet to lean up against the chest. for it being 2x, it was clearer that you could be farther away and still have a big picture and not be blurry, I only tested it on the price tags but like you said, it's a good size.

Hey have you figured out what that mold that they used to cover the lcd with was? Seems they did alot of dremel work so it wasn't made for that purpose. Still intersting to see how a company put all these things together.

PM me and let me know about that other thing we were discussing..

KU

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Re: HMD help, and introduction.

Post by PalmerTech »

What was the focal distance like on it? Do you think the viewing area would be suitable for a 7" widescreen?

All the plastic parts on the MRG2.2 are custom vacuum formed plastic. It is basically making a mold, then putting it on a vac form table, which is a table with holes in it and a air pump sucking air through the holes. You heat up a sheet of plastic, and while it is still hot and flexible, lay it over the mold. The air will suck down the edges flat, and then you have a piece of plastic that is a replica of the mold. You still have to dremel out any areas you need to, though, which is why the plasticwork is so rough.

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