Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

P.C.Zen
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 am

Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by P.C.Zen »

Due to conflicts with the patched Geforce Game Ready drivers and Windows 10 build 1903, it's suggested/recommended not to update Windows 10 to version 1903.

Unfortunately, not updating can cause security issues, so acquiring a second SSD for a "dual-boot"/"multi-boot" system is recommended. A discussion of that (the hardware side of things) is here: Multi/Dual-Booting, to maintain a 3D-Vision-Friendly Windows

Losti (who's done a lot of excellent work for the 3D Vision community) wrote on a forum elsewhere that he used RUFUS to install this Win10 1809 ISO via a bootable USB:

https://goo.gl/szssDX

Although it is a German ISO and does have options to switch to various languages, using this ISO I wasn't able to find an option to set the region as U.K. ...I don't know if it's actually missing (as every other region seems to be there) or if the U.K. is referred to using a term I'm not familiar with, but either way I wasn't able to set the region as U.K. using this ISO.

At time of writing you can still get a download of the Windows 10 1809 build direct from Microsoft by following the steps detailed here: https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-1809-iso-download/

I'm not sure if there's an easier way of downloading the Windows 10 1809 ISO...if so, maybe someone can post with a link?

Also, thanks to Losti for sending me these links detailing how to slow/stop/postpone the 1903 upgrade:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop ... windows-10
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-dela ... 019-update

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

Appreciative of you setting aside the time to do this. Although I'm staying off Win10 for now, it's good knowing that there's a quick reference guide for later on, assuming that there are increasingly more titles that become Win10 exclusives in the future. Thread bookmarked.

As you say, maybe there are alternative downloading options available, but at least it's a start and a useful one at that.
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

P.C.Zen
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by P.C.Zen »

ToThePoint wrote:Appreciative of you setting aside the time to do this. Although I'm staying off Win10 for now, it's good knowing that there's a quick reference guide for later on, assuming that there are increasingly more titles that become Win10 exclusives in the future. Thread bookmarked.

As you say, maybe there are alternative downloading options available, but at least it's a start and a useful one at that.
Thanks so much :)

I'm doing my best to contribute, because I'm not in a position to donate financially at the moment (although I do hope to in the future). I thought spending some time trying to facilitate the community's migration could be one way I could contribute. There's more to be done but it's taking time because I worked through the installation step by step on my gaming rig to write up the process for Losti's Way It's Meant to Be Played thread. I was hoping to get an outline of the manual patching process written up too but I need some info from Losti before I can finish it.

Also, yeah, Windows 10 exclusivity could be a bit of a spanner in the works for 3D Vision. Not sure what kind of rabbits some of the guys with the coding skills could pull out of the collective hat, but I guess we can only really wait and see.

I'm in the unusual position of buying into 3D Vision just as it's being discontinued. I literally got my first 3D monitor on the day Nvidia dumped the 3D Vision forums into off-topic. But I'm a retro-gamer and generally never buy any game on release, and most of the 3D titles I've not yet played (I've only just got far enough along the hardware upgrade curve to run them). Just hoping I can hold off the 1903 update long enough to play through them all. :)

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

Hey, thanks in turn for bringing your energy and ethusiasm into the fray. Any and all contributions are valuable, and it'll be nice to see what you're in a position to present here once both Losti and yourself have had further opportunities to confer, baring in mind his own time contraints of course. Losti's method is quite understandably geared a little more towards solving any Win10 3D Vision compatibility issues. For me, having both Win7 and Win8.1 installed, kind of skirts around a lot of potential problems thankfully, given both zig11727's and harisukro's prior experiences in getting the newest drivers to function with 3DV on all of the various operating systems.

Hopefully, the Win10 exclusivity issue is still a little way down the track yet, but ya know as online communities go, well...we tend to go for quality over quantity, and somehow there's always someone who manages to come up with a solution. There are some clever hombres around here, so in terms of longevity of 3D Vision enjoyment, I think your chances are still pretty good. Though it certainly helps to not desparately need to play the very latest releases straight away, as many such titles get fixed at some later stage anyway, so I reckon you're in good shape especially when comes to the retro stuff.

If zig11727 gets a chance to read this thread, I believe that he has a method of deferring 1903 indefinitely, if I'm not mistaken, which he may be able to confirm with you as whether that's actually the case or not.
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

P.C.Zen
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by P.C.Zen »

ToThePoint wrote:Hey, thanks in turn for bringing your energy and ethusiasm into the fray. Any and all contributions are valuable, and it'll be nice to see what you're in a position to present here once both Losti and yourself have had further opportunities to confer, baring in mind his own time contraints of course. Losti's method is quite understandably geared a little more towards solving any Win10 3D Vision compatibility issues. For me, having both Win7 and Win8.1 installed, kind of skirts around a lot of potential problems thankfully, given both zig11727's and harisukro's prior experiences in getting the newest drivers to function with 3DV on all of the various operating systems.

Hopefully, the Win10 exclusivity issue is still a little way down the track yet, but ya know as online communities go, well...we tend to go for quality over quantity, and somehow there's always someone who manages to come up with a solution. There are some clever hombres around here, so in terms of longevity of 3D Vision enjoyment, I think your chances are still pretty good. Though it certainly helps to not desparately need to play the very latest releases straight away, as many such titles get fixed at some later stage anyway, so I reckon you're in good shape especially when comes to the retro stuff.

If zig11727 gets a chance to read this thread, I believe that he has a method of deferring 1903 indefinitely, if I'm not mistaken, which he may be able to confirm with you as whether that's actually the case or not.
:)

For the moment I'm just waiting on losti for the advice on the manual patch. Might sound like a stupid question but i don't know where to get the number sequence / value to edit the .dll file with FVIE. I guess I can search the driver files for the number but I thought it'd be easier just to message Losti but he's not got back to me as yet. I'll probably try and track down that info. today.

And yeah, I'm hoping people are going to be able solve the compatibility issues moving forward. I feel like I should be okay for the existing games.

Also, was seriously thinking about getting a Windows 7 (and possibly 8) multi-boot set up. Is it easy enough to do? You mentioned zig11727 and harisukro getting it working...is it hard to get it set up on 7 & 8?

Also, hope Zig11727 can post with the info re. avoiding the update.

zig11727
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:28 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by zig11727 »

@P.C.Zen

I can postpone feature updates for 15 months max on the pro version. What I have been doing is a caddy system for SSD with different builds of Windows 10.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IK0HV8/?c ... _lig_dp_it

On Windows 1809 with the latest update you can postpone feature update in the settings, Update & Security go to advanced settings it will let you postpone the feature update for up to 1 year.

Also if running 1903 you must enforce group policy to not include drivers with Windows update.

Drivers on Windows 10 build 1903 and above must have NVidia driver version 425.XX and will work with 3D Vision. I think the mixed reality portal is cause of the problem for drivers above 425.XX later I will reimage a computer with 1903 and remove the mixed reality portal and try to install Nvidia drivers 43X.XX and see if 3D Vision works. I will post the results

Regarding Windows 7 Pro it will work fine but with newer hardware is a bit** hunting down drivers is very time consuming 7 to 8 Hours on I7-9900K and 370x motherboard.
Last edited by zig11727 on Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:05 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

@ P.C.Zen I think Losti might still be on holiday, so there's no rush. I don't think any of us are going anywhere any time soon. ;)

I'd certainly recommend a neat bit of software called EasyBCD, linked below. If you do ever consider setting up a dual or multi-boot system, either have a crack at doing it yourself using that or take your rig to a local vendor and insist they use that software to set everything up for you. Check it out and see what you think. An older rig that I still use, has a dual 7 Pro/8.1 setup using that particular software. Each OS is installed on separate drives. No partitioning.

https://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS ... yBCD.shtml

I think zig and harisukro were testing 3DV on each OS independently, rather than on dual boot setups specifically, although harisukro might actually have a Win7/Win8.1 dual boot setup himself. I'm not really sure.

@ zig11727 Awesome. Thanks man.
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

P.C.Zen
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by P.C.Zen »

ToThePoint wrote:@ P.C.Zen I think Losti might still be on holiday, so there's no rush. I don't think any of us are going anywhere any time soon. ;)

I'd certainly recommend a neat bit of software called EasyBCD, linked below. If you do ever consider setting up a dual or multi-boot system, either have a crack at doing it yourself using that or take your rig to a local vendor and insist they use that software to set everything up for you. Check it out and see what you think. An older rig that I still use, has a dual 7 Pro/8.1 setup using that particular software. Each OS is installed on separate drives. No partitioning.

https://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS ... yBCD.shtml

I think zig and harisukro were testing 3DV on each OS independently, rather than on dual boot setups specifically, although harisukro might actually have a Win7/Win8.1 dual boot setup himself. I'm not really sure.

@ zig11727 Awesome. Thanks man.
Brilliant, thanks, I'll take a look at that. I've been switching between drives via the BIOS, which isn't ideal. I'm not even seeing the boot manager. I'll have to look at that. I've got an M.2 and a regular SSD. I want to try and avoid using partitions completely if possible.

As for Windows 7 & 8.1, is it a lot of work to get them working with 3D Vision?

Also, yeah, I got the feeling Losti was missing lol Not heard back from him re. the threads. Going to work on a Q & A type faq for that thread in the meantime, plus other stuff to do.
zig11727 wrote:@P.C.Zen

I can postpone feature updates for 15 months max on the pro version. What I have been doing is caddy system for SSD with different builds of Windows 10.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IK0HV8/?c ... _lig_dp_it

Drivers on Windows 10 build 1903 and above must have NVidia driver version 425.XX and will work with 3D Vision. I think the mixed reality portal is cause of the problem for drivers above 425.XX later I will reimage a computer with 1903 and remove the mixed reality portal and try to install Nvidia drivers 43X.XX and see if 3D Vision works. I will post the results
Brilliant thanks, that'd be excellent :)

I've got two drives I was planning on rotating to reset the countdown to the 1903 install each time it's forced on me. They're in my gaming rig, so the security issues that not updating might cause are minimal.

Not sure how long it'll be until having the latest driver installed is an absolute necessity to running a game properly, but things are probably definitely going to get there eventually.

zig11727
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:28 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by zig11727 »

I did some research and I found out with a feature update if you connect wireless to the internet you can set don't download updates over a metered connection this will extend the 1 year period to indefinite. I will also test this feature later on and report back.

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

P.C.Zen wrote:Brilliant, thanks, I'll take a look at that. I've been switching between drives via the BIOS, which isn't ideal. I'm not even seeing the boot manager. I'll have to look at that. I've got an M.2 and a regular SSD. I want to try and avoid using partitions completely if possible.

As for Windows 7 & 8.1, is it a lot of work to get them working with 3D Vision?

Also, yeah, I got the feeling Losti was missing lol Not heard back from him re. the threads. Going to work on a Q & A type faq for that thread in the meantime, plus other stuff to do..
Given my own experience, and probably that of one or two others on here, getting 3DV to work on both Win7 and 8.1 is really quite straightforward. Windows 8/8.1 was basically a souped up version of Win7 anyway, so it's not that surprising that both 3DV installation and overall compatibility are equally good experiences for each respective OS. Having used 8.1 happily enough for years, all I did was select the option for the retro Win7 style UI, and pretented that it was Win7. Perfomance wise, it's marginally slower than 7 Pro, but on the plus side it'll still receive extended security updates until 2023. In my view if you're prepared to use Win7 and/or Win8.1 for gaming and only gaming, then you really can't go wrong. If you're looking to try to keep multi-functionality, then Win10 is the better option.

Win7 and 8.1 lend themselves more to using 3D Fix Manager in this instance, in so far as Losti's compatibility method is incorporated and is actually implimented automatically when the option is selected, so there's less hassle, which is the entire purpose of 3DFM.

I've been keeping tabs on what Duerf (hat tip) has been saying over on the Geforce forums regarding specific versions of 3DFM. Summarizing which versions of 3DFM enable 3DV correctly on which respective OS:-

3D Fix Manager v1.72 ---> Works correctly on Win7 (preumably on 8.1 as well)

3D Fix manager v1.73 ---> Works correctly on Win10, but not on Win7 or presumably on Win8.1 either.

So you might want to bear that in mind, if you do opt to use 3DFM as an easier alternative.

Legit copies of Win7 are quite tough to source now, with Win8.1 being a little bit easier. There are cheap OEM copies of Win7 around the £10 mark that are still floating about, albeit with dubious installation codes. They work, but there may be Licence expiry issues, but for a tenner sometimes it's worth a punt.

It's probably worth waiting a bit before you decide to buy anything though, at least until we can get bo3b to offer his own opinion on any potential security concerns regarding Win7. I'll PM him if he doesn't notice this thread within the next couple of days.
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

zig11727 wrote:I did some research and I found out with a feature update if you connect wireless to the internet you can set don't download updates over a metered connection this will extend the 1 year period to indefinite. I will also test this feature later on and report back.
Wow!, that is interesting.
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

Shift-E
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:26 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Shift-E »

I set my connection to metered (even though I have no data cap), and its been holding off 1903 so far. It even blocked a 1809 update, I am hesitant to even take that as I feel windows will sneak 1903 in lol. I will make another image backup before I accept anything. I do not have Pro version of Win10, so the metered trick was my only option.

I set all of my connections to metered even though they are not being used, just in case windows cheats and tries to connect wirelessly etc.

User avatar
oneofthe8devilz
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:27 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by oneofthe8devilz »

Due to remotely related S3D/VR compatibility reasons, I settled for installing "Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019" (which is based on Win10 version 1809) as my OS on my new 3DS/VR gaming machine to eliminate those constant windows 10 update patching & breaking issues for the next couple of years while still receiving all important security patches... With an "extended support end date" till "January 9, 2029" I am glad to have been able to put an end to this madness...

So in case you can get your hands on that OS build... you might want to choose that path as well guys.
I got six little friends and they all run faster than you ;)

Image
Check out our mods at
moddb or the SPS Homepage

SnickerSnack1
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by SnickerSnack1 »

P.C.Zen wrote:
At time of writing you can still get a download of the Windows 10 1809 build direct from Microsoft by following the steps detailed here: https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-1809-iso-download/

I'm not sure if there's an easier way of downloading the Windows 10 1809 ISO...if so, maybe someone can post with a link?
Thank you for this link. I've been too busy to give this whole 1903 business much thought, but I realize that the clock's ticking.

I can confirm that this method I quoted above works by using the Microsoft Edge hack. I was unable to get it working with Mozilla Firefox.

SnickerSnack1
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by SnickerSnack1 »

Shift-E wrote:I set my connection to metered (even though I have no data cap), and its been holding off 1903 so far. It even blocked a 1809 update, I am hesitant to even take that as I feel windows will sneak 1903 in lol. I will make another image backup before I accept anything. I do not have Pro version of Win10, so the metered trick was my only option.

I set all of my connections to metered even though they are not being used, just in case windows cheats and tries to connect wirelessly etc.
I have Pro, and I've postponed updates to the maximum, but I'm curious, would this trick work for an Ethernet connection? Because I certainly can change my connection to be "Metered" even though it's plugged into the wall.

Shift-E
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:26 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Shift-E »

SnickerSnack1 wrote: I have Pro, and I've postponed updates to the maximum, but I'm curious, would this trick work for an Ethernet connection? Because I certainly can change my connection to be "Metered" even though it's plugged into the wall.
Yes, I actually have my PC hardwired. My new motherboard had 3 Ethernet ports and wireless, I set them all to metered even though I am only using just one of them. I have wireless set to off, and there is also a setting that it has to be manually changed by me in order to enable it. Just figured I would cover all my bases, as I do not want to update to 1903. I would still recommend created an image backup just in case something unexpected happens, but so far so good.

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

zig11727 wrote:On Windows 1809 with the latest update you can postpone feature update in the settings, Update & Security go to advanced settings it will let you postpone the feature update for up to 1 year.
Apologies if I've missed this from your prior posts, but does Windows 10 build 1809 also require 425.XX in order to work with 3D Vision?
zig11727 wrote:Also if running 1903 you must enforce group policy to not include drivers with Windows update.

Drivers on Windows 10 build 1903 and above must have NVidia driver version 425.XX and will work with 3D Vision. I think the mixed reality portal is cause of the problem for drivers above 425.XX later I will reimage a computer with 1903 and remove the mixed reality portal and try to install Nvidia drivers 43X.XX and see if 3D Vision works. I will post the results
Thanks very much for the testing and updates so far. That's great work.
zig11727 wrote:Regarding Windows 7 Pro it will work fine but with newer hardware is a bit** hunting down drivers is very time consuming 7 to 8 Hours on I7-9900K and 370x motherboard.
Yep, using Win7 Pro/8.1 does have its drawbacks too, hence why I'm limited to Intel 6th Gen. Presumably your 9th Gen cpu isn't eligible for either Windows or Microsoft updates if using Win7 Pro. Is that the case for you?
Last edited by ToThePoint on Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

oneofthe8devilz wrote:Due to remotely related S3D/VR compatibility reasons, I settled for installing "Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019" (which is based on Win10 version 1809) as my OS on my new 3DS/VR gaming machine to eliminate those constant windows 10 update patching & breaking issues for the next couple of years while still receiving all important security patches... With an "extended support end date" till "January 9, 2029" I am glad to have been able to put an end to this madness...

So in case you can get your hands on that OS build... you might want to choose that path as well guys.
I'm prepared to sacrifice some cpu power so as to avoid the madness altogether. Thanks for the alternate suggestion, should Win10 usage ever become completely unavoidable. Btw, I'm still looking for that secret mighty Bow and Arrow easter egg upgrade in Doom (2016). I'm convinced there's also a set of those hidden in there somewhere...
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

zig11727
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:28 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by zig11727 »

Posting a follow up

I tested the following Windows RS5 build # 1809 with a wireless and Ethernet connection made the connection metered and it don't update to 1903. Once I turn off the metered connection the wireless and wired connection Windows updated to 1903.

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-set- ... windows-10

So this is good news

@ToThePoint

I have a clean device manager on Windows 7 Pro with I9-9900K it just a lot of work I don't use it but I also tried to get Windows 7 pro working on AMD R9-3900, X570 motherboard and after two hours I packed it in.

One note if the enterprise version of Windows doesn't have the Windows Store I'm assuming WMR is not supported.

User avatar
ToThePoint
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ToThePoint »

zig11727 wrote:Posting a follow up

I tested the following Windows RS5 build # 1809 with a wireless and Ethernet connection made the connection metered and it don't update to 1903. Once I turn off the metered connection the wireless and wired connection Windows updated to 1903.

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-set- ... windows-10

So this is good news
That is good news! Very cool indeed. Now all we have to do is keep this a secret from Microsoft. ;)
zig11727 wrote:@ToThePoint

I have a clean device manager on Windows 7 Pro with I9-9900K it just a lot of work I don't use it but I also tried to get Windows 7 pro working on AMD R9-3900, X570 motherboard and after two hours I packed it in.

One note if the enterprise version of Windows doesn't have the Windows Store I'm assuming WMR is not supported.
I'll simply assume build 1809 does actually need 425.XX, rather than getting by on later drivers. Looks like you've done very well to get such new architechture to be compatible with such an old OS at all. If going the AMD route stumped even you, things must be getting bad. I should re-phrase in that the presence of a post-6th Gen cpu in essense, prevents a non Win10 OS from getting any further updates. Duly noted regarding the Windows store and WMR functionality. Many thanks.
Intel Core i7 6850k @ 3.6 Ghz (Liquid Cooled: Corsair Hydro H115i), 2x GTX 1080 Ti, HB SLI @ x16x16 (Air Cooled), GTX 1060 Dedicated PhysX, 32Gb RAM Kingston Predator
Asus X-99 Deluxe II Motherboard, Corsair Obsidian 1000D Super Tower, Win7 Pro (442.19), Win8.1 (441.66), Ubuntu, Rog Swift PG27VQ 3D (1440p), HTC Vive

User avatar
Necropants
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:05 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Necropants »

Thanks for this discussion now have a saftely stored version of 1809 stowed away )

bo3bber
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by bo3bber »

P.C.Zen wrote:Due to conflicts with the patched Geforce Game Ready drivers and Windows 10 build 1903, it's suggested/recommended not to update Windows 10 to version 1903.

Unfortunately, not updating can cause security issues, so acquiring a second SSD for a dual boot
Dual boot is worth doing for simplicity and reliability. You don't have to worry about updates and debugging silly problems introduced by Microsoft and Nvidia.

To clarify though- there is no security risk with any version of Win10. All are presently up to date with security and even 1803 is still under full support, so any security problems will be updated there.

Even Win7, nearing end of life is still currently receiving security patches.


So wherever you found the info posted that 1903 is necessary for security is lying and trying to install FUD about older versions. It's absolutely false.

zig11727
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:28 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by zig11727 »

I forgot to mention once you get Windows 10 RS5 1809 working you should do a system image so you also have a backup below is a link to free version of software.

This software is excellent backup software.

https://www.ubackup.com/download.html

Here is another way to disable feature updates


1. Type regedit in RUN or Start search box and press Enter. It'll open Registry Editor.

2. Now go to following key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows

3. Create a new key under Windows key and set its name as WindowsUpdate. If the key is already present, skip to next step.

4. Now in right-side pane, create a new DWORD DisableOSUpgrade and set its value to 1

5. Again go to following key in Registry Editor:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate

6. Create a new key under WindowsUpdate key and set its name as OSUpgrade

7. Now in right-side pane, create a new DWORD AllowOSUpgrade and set its value to 0

User avatar
schwing
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:51 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D HDTV

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by schwing »

In driver 430.39's change notes, it mentions adding 1903 support. So you only need to have 425.31 if you update to at least 1903.
Win 10 v1909 / 1x Nvidia 980Ti GPU (v442.19, 1080p)

bo3bber
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by bo3bber »

Another possibility for long term use is to keep using Win7, even after expiration next January.

After Jan 2020, there will be no more security updates for Win7 even on supported processors. Unless of course, Microsoft reverses course again, as there is still some 20% of all gaming systems still running Win7.


Depends upon how much you worry about security updates as to whether this would work for you.

For me, their security has always been a leaky boat, so I can't see that fully supported is much different than not supported. Even 1903 has had massive security holes, so the best approach is to maintain full backups of known good state, and don't surf sketchy websites, and it's pretty unlikely you'll ever get snagged. This is what I'm going to do on my Win7 gaming boot

ChrisIW
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:57 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by ChrisIW »

Hi everyone, I've just signed up with this forum because of the nVidia 3D Vision issues and read about not upgrading to Windows 10 build 1903.

I went to change my settings to prevent or delay any Windows updates but I noticed that my build is ALREADY updated to version 1903. The strange thing is I watched a 3D blu ray yesterday and had no issues. Does this mean I'm safe from issues relating to Windows updates or could I still have problems later on???

P.C.Zen
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by P.C.Zen »

ChrisIW wrote:Hi everyone, I've just signed up with this forum because of the nVidia 3D Vision issues and read about not upgrading to Windows 10 build 1903.

I went to change my settings to prevent or delay any Windows updates but I noticed that my build is ALREADY updated to version 1903. The strange thing is I watched a 3D blu ray yesterday and had no issues. Does this mean I'm safe from issues relating to Windows updates or could I still have problems later on???
I've had some games work with the patched driver under bulid 1903 but it varies.

Rule of thumb is to stick with driver 425.31 if you have Win10 build 1903 because a lot of the games just won't work with the patched driver under Win10 1903.

zig11727
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:28 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by zig11727 »

The testing I had done on Windows 1903 and above it seems DX9 work with drivers above 425.XX I hadn't launch a 3Dmitogo fixed game on Windows 1903 and above with any driver above 425.XX.

As stated above 425.XX works fine.

User avatar
Necropants
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:05 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Necropants »

Just cause it's been mentioned a bit windows 8.1 is a really bad idea to use for 3dvision. Theres a bunch of issues with it from memory with various games and the "evil" KB update" being part of the OS from memory.

My recommendation is stay with windows 7 pro dual booted with Windows 10 pro 1803. 1809 is probably okay but I won't risk updating in case It forces something newer on me.

User avatar
Lizzard
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:45 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Lizzard »

Found these 2 alternative sites while looking for more ways to get through the hoops:

https://winaero.com/blog/download-windo ... -directly/

It appears you could have the same bypass with home by tweaking the registry:

https://winaero.com/blog/delay-windows- ... 2018-1809/

My Asrock motherboard was hit by Thor's lightning back in 2013 and had to install an additional PCI-E USB 3 card to restore USB 3 functionality. If this would suffice with the HMDs i might finally have my first VR setup tomorrow. Also hope this metered Ethernet trick you guys are talking about would work. Thanks for the pointers.
Necropants wrote:Just cause it's been mentioned a bit windows 8.1 is a really bad idea to use for 3dvision. There's a bunch of issues with it from memory with various games and the "evil" KB update" being part of the OS from memory.
My experience with w8.1 has been a bliss. Been on this OS for about 5 years now and never really had any 3d vision issues that were windows related. But after all the reports I've seen it does sound that w7 has a bit more leverage when it comes to stability. Personally w8.1 has kept me happy all this time and its been my most stable gaming rig, lasting me almost 7 years now. (only upgraded storage and 2 gpu's in this time) The i7 3920 has been a beast up till now. Problems with w8.1 and 3dV are most probably linked to hardware and drivers. Not really sure where the negative reports about this combination originated?

User avatar
Necropants
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:05 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Necropants »

Yeah maybe these issues were eventually resolved with drivers I don't know. Frostbite games like dragon age inquisition from memory were very problematic.

User avatar
Lizzard
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:45 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Lizzard »

How do you prevent steam from updating each time you switch between the operating systems? Is it normal to re-allocate the STEAM LIBRARY FOLDERS every time you switch between the operating systems? Every time this happens it requires steam to eat from my data. It would be really nice if this could be avoided. Ive installed steam on both operating systems. But at first I tried to just run it from its original place. After a 50mb update I just had to re-allocate the folders and it worked. But its as if I'm playing ping pong. Installing steam on both C drives didn't solve this issue. Google isn't giving me a life line here...

Vaeltaja
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:54 am

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Vaeltaja »

Yesterday Windows 10 finally gave me update status icon to taskbar reminding that my Windows is not up to date. That icon is little bit annoying and of course it doesn't have the option to turn it off. But there is a solution:

1. Type regedit to Run (winkey+r)

2. Go to: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings

3. In right-side pane create new DWORD and name it TrayIconVisibility and set it's value to 0

4. Restart computer and that status icon should be history.

Porlonus
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:17 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: LCD shutter glasses

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Porlonus »

Lizzard wrote:It appears you could have the same bypass with home by tweaking the registry:
True. And what above method did not show is the option to disable feature updates via group policy. I believe this link covers ALL the available options:

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/09/27/how-t ... indows-10/

User avatar
Necropants
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:05 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Necropants »

Lizzard wrote:How do you prevent steam from updating each time you switch between the operating systems? Is it normal to re-allocate the STEAM LIBRARY FOLDERS every time you switch between the operating systems? Every time this happens it requires steam to eat from my data. It would be really nice if this could be avoided. Ive installed steam on both operating systems. But at first I tried to just run it from its original place. After a 50mb update I just had to re-allocate the folders and it worked. But its as if I'm playing ping pong. Installing steam on both C drives didn't solve this issue. Google isn't giving me a life line here...
This definitely is not normal. I do not have this problem. just make sure your library folder in steam is the same letter on both Installs. I have a large SSD just for games. I do not use the default steam library locations at all.

User avatar
Lizzard
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:45 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Lizzard »

I think the problem is that windows 8.1 and 10 have different drive letters assigned to the hard drives. (easy to fix if I wanted to test but believe its time to move on) It was a big mistake to run steam from the same location on different OS's. It would probably require some registry wizardry to fix this now. Dont know really.

Since my migration to w10 I hardly go back to w8.1. I have little reason to go back there currently. Apex legends and VR takes up most of my gaming time. I got Zelda BOTW to work over there and cant get it to work on w10. (cant get 3d to kick in) Even moving Zelda to a different drive on w8.1 doesnt want to work. It was the most difficult and worthy game to get to work and the thought that I might never get it to work in 3d again, as good as it currently does, is a bit daunting. Next to TR2013 this is my most favorite game of all time. (Still have to look into the VR solutions that some use)

Apart from this its my expired CAD software that forces me to avoid formatting that ssd and move on and also Potplayer that doesnt want to function normally on w10. But as w7 has a special place in some people's hearts, w8.1 has one in mine. There is a bit of drag between the 2 operating systems when starting up my system. But I mostly put my system to sleep when I leave.

Windows 10 so far has been a nightmare compared to w8.1. Never had my pc crash so much before! But I guess that could, under circumstances, be because nVidia forces us to stick to 1809.

As long as HelixVision works im content for now. Started playing Mass Effect Andromeda here. The performance fluctuates a bit. The second time I tried it after fiddling with the settings, to match my hardware's capabilities, it ran poorly. Not sure what caused the spanner in the works. (regardless, also glad I saved this one for a special time. My first run through will be in VR!!! Also Metro: Last light Redux and my second run through of Remember Me. Very excited =) I know after my 4th playthrough of TR2013 in a 300" dark theater "room", with HelixVision, absolutely was the most immersive experience I've had with any 3d vision game so far! Got sucked into this one like it was my first time! I hate gamers who calls themselves gamers but never experienced this or the 3d vision way. They've designed it with a 3d audience in mind. Its far superior to the few 360VR experiences I've had so far. But I have to retract my bad remarks on Fallout 4 now. In VR this one is a master piece and takes up 50% of gaming my time! I search for all the side missions, that arent monotonous, because I dont want to run out of game tape. They've made some tweaks that really ramped this one up. (Saved Skyrim VR for a another special time though, but not so sure which one would turn out better). Mr. Orange made a good Youtube review about Fallout 4VR about a year ago and I fully agree with his conclusions. There just one draw back. The latest release doesnt work with 1809. So you have to use an older "exe" which you could get through Steam Console. Decals doesnt lign up in VR. Which causes blue lines on the edges inside the HMD from time to time.

In the end, even while playing 3d vision games in a 300" completely dark theater room, I'm inclined to think that the quality isnt there yet. Between this and my 720p projector its hard to decide which is better. (But the supreme blacks of the SamsungO+ is something to experience. Its something you'll only understand when you see it. It truly compliments FO4VR in such an awesome way). Only now can I understand why 4k development in the hmd's has become paramount. Which of course sucks on a lot of pixel processing juice. TBH, and i dont want to pee on other guys hope, because of this severe hardware taxing and the price tag that comes with it, we are going to have to be patient for a couple more years for VR to get out of its infancy. 4k has to become the norm before VR can fully spread its wings. Thankfully VR is picking up pace now. I just want to pull my hair out of my head that nVidia has made it so hard for the remnant of 3d Vision enthusiasts. Which also makes me appreciate the guys 10 fold more that still develops solutions for this tech. Man, I dont want to pull my hair out. I want to pull my scalp of and shoot my eyeballs at nVidia as if it were mini nukes.

Porlonus
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:17 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: LCD shutter glasses

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Porlonus »

I did yet not run steam for multiple systems, but i've got some ideas. I couldn't find out how steam determines the partition. If it's rly just the drive letter, it should have been actually quite easy, as you can reassign drives (even C: but that ... not so easy and A/B also reserved). So are you sure you've installed the library AND steam on the same drive and assigned the same drive letter? Steam on same drive is important as some older games will not make use of the steam library.

Even on different systems I believe the same partition should have the same partition/type ID. So that should not make a difference. For sure steam will recognize the change and at least will check for itself according to that verify the files there, but not reallocate!? What are the exact steps you have to do currently?

Another option might be to work with network shares. Simply point the Library to \\PCNAME\Sharedfolder\ (even if it's on the same PC). Would have a similar effect as for Linux. Last option might be working with vhd(x) images instead of installed systems. But I have no experience with that, you'd have to read into that.

Edit: As well as "network" shares, you can also (scroll down to/search for): Mounting Volumes as Drive Letters or Folders.

User avatar
Lizzard
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:45 pm

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Lizzard »

Thanks for the info and suggestions Porlonus. The drive letter thing is something Ive run into in the past.

My two SSD's with the OS's installed (C drives) are called RedFire (for W10) and WhiteFire (W8.1). On W10 WhiteFire is labeled (L:). This is where steam was installed before I started using W10. So in W10 I just went to L: and ran steam from there. I thought "Why should I install it twice when I could safe some space?" Big mistake! So every time steam updates things like steamworks and steamVR it went searching on L: Even after I told it that my default steam install directory should be on RedFire (c:\Games\...). When I went back to 8.1 (Where WhiteFire is labeled as C: and RedFire as something else) it started downloading stuff that it thought went missing. So it seems W8.1 doesn't know about W10 and resets all the registry keys associated with steam. So W10 is trying to be the big boss and does the same when I run steam there. This causes things to download every time I run steam on a different OS. Steam goes and detect your "common" folders from scratch. In the end I stopped steam from starting up with the OS in "msconfig". That put the problem on hold and haven't touched steam in 8.1 since.

But as mentioned, right now I would rather move away from 8.1. Since w7 will become obsolete in a few months I believe everyone would be better off to move to w10. If everyone used the same operating system it would make things a lot easier. But I guess this wont entirely eliminate all the variables since there are different versions of w10 that we use too. When W7 stops receiving security updates it would leave it vulnerable. I'm not a techy guy in this regard but that's what I get from those who are. Hackers will have a new play ground when this happens.

I would advice the next person not to make the same mistake as me and just install steam on the additional OS from scratch. That way the two operating systems shouldn't interfere with each other. (believe that's what the others have done who didn't see this problem?) Unless someone else can report that they got this method working between W8.1 and W10, without any problems. Even for 10gb I don't really think its worth the trouble though. Also that just deleting steam from 8.1 with a fresh install might work in my case. Will try that first when I really cant get a 3d Vision game to work on w10. For now I just wana enjoy some games through HelixVision and VR. One of the main reasons why this thread exists. So it wont be for a while.

Porlonus
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:17 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: LCD shutter glasses

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by Porlonus »

OKAY. Imo the mistake is that you installed steam to your system drives. At best make something like: C:\ (40GB) D:\ (GamelibraryD; ??GB) E:\ (GamelibraryE) X:\ (40GB).

C and X are the 2 windows installations - by default when booting Win10/RedFire it will be C and WhiteFire will be X and when booting Win 8 vice versa.
But D: and E: will always be the same drives on the same partitions etc. (if you do reassign the drives as linked before - it prob. wont be the way by default). Steam needs also to be installed on D or E. You may also make either D or E to a program drive. Or you create a raid and just use an additional D partition (and whatever other drive you choose for seconds OS). ..... there are many possibilities. The main idea: install steam and it's library on the same partition you are going to use on both systems (with same drive letter).

whyme466
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:16 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D HDTV

Re: Keeping Windows 10 v.1809 & Postponing 1903

Post by whyme466 »

Anyone else having stability issues with their dual/multi-boot setups?

Over the past two weeks, I have had problems with both of my dual boot Windows 10 versions. My "frozen" 1809 version seems to have recently installed an update (I believe a .NET related installation) that made this OS unable to boot. Normal OS repair tools like sfc did not work (they could not repair errors they found). I was able to make a 99% recovery, but ONLY by using DISM commands linked offline to my USB Windows 10 (1809 version) backup.

The boot drive with my latest Windows 10 update (1909 - for VR gaming) somehow became so corrupted after a recent update that I could not recover it (even with DISM), and I had to completely reinstall its OS to its factory original settings (wiping all files on disk). It took hours to perform all the OS updates, third party applications installs and updates, and game downloads. I engaged the support people from my PC manufacturer, but they could not point to a reason why this happened (or recover my corrupted OS, either). They claimed the dual boot setup might be an issue, potentially confusing the Microsoft update installers (they pointed out each OS at least indexes the other OS). They also questioned the role of my Norton Security software in the potential corruption.

Post Reply

Return to “NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision Driver Forums”