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 3dvision interleaved 3d on active and passives :) 
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 78
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jmslovatt wrote:
Hey guys,

I have the lg 42lw550t passive screen. This fix is so nearly perfect it's painful! I get no audio over hdmi, i've tried merging the extension bloc in from before using moninfo, but it didn't help. I can live with this though, instead just using a line from my soundcard, my main problem is I can't seem to shift the screen by 1 pixel to get the eyes swapped.

Has anybody got experience of doing this on an LG TV? I've searched high and low but found nothing yet!

Cheers for the great work!

Dno about the audio as i use a soundcard and optical so have never had todo teh audio fix, maybe somebody else can help.

I no longer have a lg as i swapped to a perfect interleaved toshiba 42" 3dtv so cant piont you in the correct direction through the tv's menu.
There was only image shifting using vga on both my old lg 3dtv's, are you using a vga cable and not hdmi?
Using vga the setting for screen shift will be where your contrast motion plus ect is if yours has it.

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Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:25 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:32 am
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butmunch wrote:
Dno about the audio as i use a soundcard and optical so have never had todo teh audio fix, maybe somebody else can help.

I no longer have a lg as i swapped to a perfect interleaved toshiba 42" 3dtv so cant piont you in the correct direction through the tv's menu.
There was only image shifting using vga on both my old lg 3dtv's, are you using a vga cable and not hdmi?
Using vga the setting for screen shift will be where your contrast motion plus ect is if yours has it.

Thanks for the reply bud, unfortunately i'm using hdmi so I reckon this may be why I can't adjust it. I could switch to vga (although that would mean unplugging my humble dreamcast).

I have managed to find an interim solution, getting 3d working on at least the most current LG TV's (and maybe older ones) at 1080p and equivalent of 30hz, by using rollermod, but then foregoing checkerboard (nasty colorbug on LG) for page flip, which the new passive screens can interpret. Looks great and way better than framepacked 24hz! I'm new here, so I'm sure someone else has already done this, but if it's of interest to anyone I'll post how I went about it in a new thread


Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:22 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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Accidently meant to post in another thread, but I'm fixing to give this a shot and I hope the eys aren't reversed.


Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:38 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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I'm in business now. I can do 1080p @ 24 hz or 720p @ 60 hz just fine, and I merged the extension block from my TV's EDID with the Zalman and HDMI audio works like a charm too.

I couldn't really figure out how to get the merge to work at first, I opened the original containing the extension block I wanted and then went to the merge with inf sub menu, but I couldn't see any indication of anything happening and it would seem nothing ever did. I found the actual extension block, took read-only off and just typed in 01 on the Zalman EDID and I'm going :woot

I'm still learning, and have obviously learned that games are a no go at 1080p @ 24hz because of input lag and chop-sueyness of it, even with Game Mode on my TV. It's either 720p @ 60 hz at 42 inches, or 1080p @ 60hz at 25 inches for around the same price is what I find. I'm usually a resolution freak but I'll take the bigger screenI believe. =D

Thanks.


Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:11 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:19 am
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I was able to almost get it to work. The problem was, that the eyes are mixed up. in other words, if I turn my glasses upside down it works.

My TV doesn't seem to have that +1 adjustment that the OP mentioned. Nothing I do can fix it. I have an LG LW5300.

I also wanted sound via HDMI, so I tried using Moninfo.exe to do as the OP said, but I probably did it wrong, and the inf file basically has my original edid info in it, but is still called a Zalman in the control panel.

So I think I have to give up. So close though! If anyone has suggestions, I'd be happy to try them.

As a side note, just got my 3DTV and am really disappointed with this whole 1080/24hz thing.


Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:18 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:19 am
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donnykarabotsos wrote:
I was able to almost get it to work. The problem was, that the eyes are mixed up. in other words, if I turn my glasses upside down it works.

My TV doesn't seem to have that +1 adjustment that the OP mentioned. Nothing I do can fix it. I have an LG LW5300.

I also wanted sound via HDMI, so I tried using Moninfo.exe to do as the OP said, but I probably did it wrong, and the inf file basically has my original edid info in it, but is still called a Zalman in the control panel.

So I think I have to give up. So close though! If anyone has suggestions, I'd be happy to try them.

As a side note, just got my 3DTV and am really disappointed with this whole 1080/24hz thing.


Hi,
This is how i play.

Glasses have the lenses removed and are stuck with superglue onto the opposite eyes ;), this is no issue and is 100% better than having upside down glasses, its allso easier than trying to cut the lenses down to fit.

The image shifting is most likely only active when using a vga cable, this is how it was on my lg 42lw450 and 47ld950 passives so if your using hdmi then that will be your issue most likely.
I just use hdmi and superglued glasses.

Shame that you need sound, i'm sure you can find somebody in the avsforums edid thread to make you a working edid with sound.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091403

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Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:28 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:31 am
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First off, want to thank the OP so much. I tried out IZ3D and felt it was a sloppy solution at best, and especially because i had everything capable of 3D out of the box from nvidia, but they block it for bullcrap reasons. Here is my setup:

Vizio E3D320VX
8800 GTS 512 Nvidia (driver 290)

Works great! As soon as i went to the control panel for Nvidia, this time when i clicked enabled Stereoscopic 3D, it came up with a new menu that just wants you to put on your glasses to test if the 3D is working right or not. Of course, it worked perfectly. After i clicked finished, it loaded up some 3D images, and all of them looked perfect in 3D. I then tried out Left 4 Dead 2 in 3D and it looked awful! Then i tried out Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition, and it looks AMAZING in 3D. I will need to try out more capcom games in 3D it seems.

Now, is there anywhere i can go and test to make sure the 3D is performing properly, like test images or what not? I see a lot of people who say they have to swap lenses and such, but i did not have to do anything like that, worked as is. Thanks for any tips you guys can suggest, and again, AMAZING work by the OP, you are awesome.

p.s. - My system locks to 1080p @ 60hz automatically, didnt have to tweak a thing like the op mentioned MIGHT happen. Just a FYI.


Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:27 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:19 am
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quepaso wrote:
First off, want to thank the OP so much. I tried out IZ3D and felt it was a sloppy solution at best, and especially because i had everything capable of 3D out of the box from nvidia, but they block it for bullcrap reasons. Here is my setup:

Vizio E3D320VX
8800 GTS 512 Nvidia (driver 290)

Works great! As soon as i went to the control panel for Nvidia, this time when i clicked enabled Stereoscopic 3D, it came up with a new menu that just wants you to put on your glasses to test if the 3D is working right or not. Of course, it worked perfectly. After i clicked finished, it loaded up some 3D images, and all of them looked perfect in 3D. I then tried out Left 4 Dead 2 in 3D and it looked awful! Then i tried out Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition, and it looks AMAZING in 3D. I will need to try out more capcom games in 3D it seems.

Now, is there anywhere i can go and test to make sure the 3D is performing properly, like test images or what not? I see a lot of people who say they have to swap lenses and such, but i did not have to do anything like that, worked as is. Thanks for any tips you guys can suggest, and again, AMAZING work by the OP, you are awesome.

p.s. - My system locks to 1080p @ 60hz automatically, didnt have to tweak a thing like the op mentioned MIGHT happen. Just a FYI.


Glad your happy and had no issues, have now updated OP for displays that need eye correction ect ;)

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Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:01 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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Butmunch I have to thank you for the EDID. It works like a charm with my Samsung plasma 50C7700.

Thx again! :woot


Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:51 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:56 pm
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I am new to this, but have just tried to get the sound working through HDMI with my Vizio...and I can't get it working. Has anyone been able to use HDMI audio with this? Thanks!


Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:09 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:44 pm
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thank you for this file but i have little problem any help will be appreciated
i have LG 42 LW4500 3dtv when i load zalman inf as a monitor, there is a ghosting problem both videos and games. My comp is connected by hdmi. Is it a problem or what? i tried every modes on powerdvd (checkerboard, 3dvision etc.) ghosting problem always there pls help me guys


Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:26 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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ozekes wrote:
thank you for this file but i have little problem any help will be appreciated
i have LG 42 LW4500 3dtv when i load zalman inf as a monitor, there is a ghosting problem both videos and games. My comp is connected by hdmi. Is it a problem or what? i tried every modes on powerdvd (checkerboard, 3dvision etc.) ghosting problem always there pls help me guys


Hi,
The ghosting your seeing is clear ghosting correct or is it colours ghosting ?, check the links at bottom for reference pictures. I think there are ways around the colourbug/clear ghosting by using isf expert and sharpness setings but this creats major lag!
I suspect you have a clear ghosting that is fixed via what i wrote above.
I had to sell my lg to fund a toshiba passive to get this mod working correctly.
Sadly lg are terrible and have a few 3d bugs that ruin checkerboard and interleaved.

You see ghosting in powerdvd because
1. 3dvision is set to interleaved so you have clear ghosting or colourbug
2. micro polerized is interleaved so has clear ghosting or colourbug.
3. checkerboard has colourbug either way.

There's too much to explain so you will have to read the following links for more info.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1344018

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-forum ... sting.html

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Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:59 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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hmm it seems i cannot use that checkerboard or interleaved mode man this sucks!
anyway i have to choose 720 p gaming (3dtvplay seems no problem so far) instead of 1080p ghosting thanks anyway butmunch


Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:45 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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ozekes wrote:
hmm it seems i cannot use that checkerboard or interleaved mode man this sucks!
anyway i have to choose 720 p gaming (3dtvplay seems no problem so far) instead of 1080p ghosting thanks anyway butmunch



Hi,
I feel you bro, it does suck hard!
These 3dvision mods are the only reason i sold my lg, it was the best thing i ever done as the lesser known toshiba's are better than lg in more ways than 1.

I really do feel for you guys with lg's though :(

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Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:29 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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ah finally i solved ghostng problemthanks to the links you gave thank you very much. My only problem is eye swapping now. Can i do that by inf file without touching the glass (i mean superglue method :D). I tried phoenix and moninfo but its kinda complicated for me. Thanks again at least i can see 1080p no ghosting now this is something


Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:14 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Have updated Op for lg interleaved with a pc label and next to no ghosting, it's 100% playable with lesser lag pc label :)

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:58 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Ty for the work Butmunch. lol... you have a name that makes it confusing to say ty too...lol :woot

I have a US version of the LG 65LW6500 and if I am understanding you right the sharpness settings are carried over to the PC label? I never could clear my LG up with sharpness settings, though I could make it a bit worse. I actually get 0% ghosting in interleaved if I stand up and put myself at a different angle. I wonder if the US and UK versions problems are different?

Will look at this solution in interest as more try this and I get to see the results. I gave up on playing games on my LG and bought an Acer passive for my games but it would still be nice to make the TV work better.


Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:14 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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As promised here is the video of the fix for pc label and interleaved ;)
lg 3dtv clear interleaved 3d fix for pc label - YouTube

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:16 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hmmm,i have the lg d2542p and no matter i use my original inf or your zalman inf,i always have ghosting (purple).Some movies have more,some less. I tried tridef,iz3d and with your inf nvidia vision.
Would love to get rid of that purple ghosting.

My system : Win7 x64 and a gtx570 @latest whql driver.


Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:30 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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puttypong wrote:
Hmmm,i have the lg d2542p and no matter i use my original inf or your zalman inf,i always have ghosting (purple).Some movies have more,some less. I tried tridef,iz3d and with your inf nvidia vision.
Would love to get rid of that purple ghosting.

My system : Win7 x64 and a gtx570 @latest whql driver.


Hi ,
Please read the following link for possible fix related to that monitor ;)
http://www.ddd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1518
Quote:
I just bought an LG D2342P 3d monitor, but I am having an issue with it. Or more specific, with the included 3d glasses. I think the included glasses do not have the correct polarization for the monitor.

I tried some 3d data for the monitor, but when looking straight at the monitor I have quite some crosstalk that seems to be very purple. This distracts A LOT and takes away from the 3d effect. I found out that tilting my head 45 degrees to the left makes the purple go away and reduces crosstalk quite a lot.



Possibly you have the wrong glasses included with the monitor like the guys in that thread?

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:42 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Thank you Butmunch for reply and help.
It looks like indeed that i got the wrong glasses. I got the 200f glasses,but they show "cinema" printed on it. So they must be the tv glasses and not the monitor ones.
I will test later (the 45 degree thingy) and see what happens. I tried almost a week to get rid of that purple ghosting,changed cables,drivers,infs,etc.It was driving me numnuts.
Never thought about wrong glasses.
Again...big thanks for your help.

EDIT: Hoorray,its gone. I tried the 45 degrees,NO more purple ghosting. :D Now i have to see where and how i get the right glasses.


Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Glad you sorted it puttypong :)

Have now updated OP with a PHILIPS 32PFL7606 passive 3dtv.

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Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:55 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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[retracted]


Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:19 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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LOl, better late than never :)
http://3dvision-blog.com/7163-make-your ... 3d-vision/

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Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:16 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Bloody also posted the Acer HR274H EDID which shows the "Optimized for Nvidia Geforce" icon and includes working hdmi audio.


Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:24 pm
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I really hope this doesn't make Nvidia drop support for Zalman (like they have with CRT support for similar reasons).

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Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:44 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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cybereality wrote:
I really hope this doesn't make Nvidia drop support for Zalman (like they have with CRT support for similar reasons).


Yeah its a bummer when they drop support, by the looks of it there will allways be a bone for us :)
I can think of ways they can kill us dead but lets hope they do'nt!

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Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:21 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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You know i got the lg 2542p-pn,so if i use your edid or the Acer HR274H EDID,it CAN NOT damage my monitor ,right? Maybe a noob question but i,m rather sure ,you know?
Btw...congrats to your News.

EDIT: Can not install the Acer HR274H EDID....."Windows encounters a problem ,...contact the manufacturer ,etc" . Whats the problem?

Edit 2 : Both infs posted from Bloody dont work with my LG 2542p-pn. Both times it give me the same error. When i try your unlock edid,Butmunch,it work perfect.

???


Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:07 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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puttypong wrote:
You know i got the lg 2542p-pn,so if i use your edid or the Acer HR274H EDID,it CAN NOT damage my monitor ,right? Maybe a noob question but i,m rather sure ,you know?
Btw...congrats to your News.

EDIT: Can not install the Acer HR274H EDID....."Windows encounters a problem ,...contact the manufacturer ,etc" . Whats the problem?

Edit 2 : Both infs posted from Bloody dont work with my LG 2542p-pn. Both times it give me the same error. When i try your unlock edid,Butmunch,it work perfect.

???



Hi,
No they can't damage your monitor, at worst i belive all you'll get is a " No signal" type error.

Strange your problem is, i have'nt tried the zalman edid included on the 3dvisionblog, i did try the acer edid as it came and it installed fine.
If you can, can you supply a snip/picture of the error, i have'nt a clue but pictures may help.


Maybe run the edids through moninfo and create a new edid overide an then install the new edid you just created ;)??

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Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:33 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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butmunch wrote:
Hi,
No they can't damage your monitor, at worst i belive all you'll get is a " No signal" type error.

Strange your problem is, i have'nt tried the zalman edid included on the 3dvisionblog, i did try the acer edid as it came and it installed fine.
If you can, can you supply a snip/picture of the error, i have'nt a clue but pictures may help.


Maybe run the edids through moninfo and create a new edid overide an then install the new edid you just created ;)??


Ah good,thought i ask about the damage thing ,since the monitor is new,thank you.
I will upload a picture later,about the moninfo thing,i really dont know how to do that.

EDIT: Here is the pic : Image


Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:29 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Thanks for pic, i have'nt a clue sadly, i tried to recreate your pic by way of using random edids but could'nt.

Are you connected via vga by any chance?

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Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:58 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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a couple things i can think of:
it is possible that you do not have permissions to install unsigned drivers.
when you "update driver", you need to do a manual install of the inf.

you can google the methods to solve the above issues. if you need more detailed instructions, let us know.


Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:18 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Just another wild idea :)

Is that lg monitor driver thats showing a stock edid or did it come from a disc/lg website?

What happens if you de-install the lg from device manager aswell as the driver for it and then scan for hardware, if the lg shows up as generic reboot and try the acer edid.
Just thinking of things i'd do to problem solve.

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Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:37 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:55 am
Posts: 7
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Thank you both for help.
I,m connected via a dvi cable. The Lg d2542pp digital inf came on the cd included with the monitor. The acer inf who failed to install i did with the "have disk" method (manual update).
I use the same method on Butmunchs unlocked inf and that works without issues.
Really dont know why the 2 infs from the vision blog have that same error.


Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:26 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 78
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id uninstal your lg from device manger and delete the inf aswell, then try with the acer inf after a reboot?
Get that lg to show as generic in device manager and go from there, dno if it will work but its what i'd do.

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Samsung ps51e6500, Acer h5360bd + 80" fixed screen
Sli Gigabyte gtx670 Windforce x3
Intel 3770k Oc'd + Noctua Nh-D14
Asus Sabertooth Z77
8gb 2133mhz Crucial Smart Tracers Oc'd
Ocz Vertex 4 128gb
1tb Samsung F3
Coolermaster HafX
Demciflex full Magnetic Filter Set

Home 5.1 Surround Sound
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Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:38 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:55 am
Posts: 7
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Reinstalling that nvidia-driver did it for me. Right after that i installed the acer inf again with that "have disk" method. Didnt even gave me "that driver is not digitally signed " message.
Curious anaway,i could install-reinstall your unlocked inf all the time,for that acer i needed to reinstall that nvidia-driver.
Anyway,its working now,thanks again for help. :)

EDIT: Btw,is it possible to "activate" nvidia passive 3d mode in my Lg d2542p inf?


Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:00 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:07 am
Posts: 204
Location: Hungary
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ozekes wrote:
ah finally i solved ghostng problemthanks to the links you gave thank you very much. My only problem is eye swapping now. Can i do that by inf file without touching the glass (i mean superglue method :D). I tried phoenix and moninfo but its kinda complicated for me. Thanks again at least i can see 1080p no ghosting now this is something


Hi, can somebody else confirm that the trick will work with LG 42 LW4500,
and i get zero ghosting? (just the glasses upside down, but this is not
a big problem for me)

thx!


Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:57 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 78
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Just alittle update.

When i first found this mod i had sold my lg 47ld950 a week before which gutted me.
After around 6-7 month of tv upgrading i finally went back to the ld950's sister tv the 47ld920 which does'nt support framepacking, lol as if we need it!

As i have allways said, the ld950 was the best 3dtv i ever had and i can now say that the 920 matches the 950, both tv's are better for 3d films and 3d gaming than any other 2011 passive 3dtv i've owned.
The ld920 allso has a colourbug, this was reported to not have a bug but it was only reported by one person, i can confirm it does have the bug indeed but its fixed with teh zalman edid.

Note

The acer edid has an extension bloc so it gives a colourbug with a nvidia card for interleaved 3d, the zalman edid has no extension bloc so this fixes the colour ghosting and produces 3dvision interleaved with no colour bug! :)

With the ld920 i have now it means i can no longer use the acer edid which i'd swapped to with teh philips, i have a lg so have to use the zalman edid ;)

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Samsung ps51e6500, Acer h5360bd + 80" fixed screen
Sli Gigabyte gtx670 Windforce x3
Intel 3770k Oc'd + Noctua Nh-D14
Asus Sabertooth Z77
8gb 2133mhz Crucial Smart Tracers Oc'd
Ocz Vertex 4 128gb
1tb Samsung F3
Coolermaster HafX
Demciflex full Magnetic Filter Set

Home 5.1 Surround Sound
Coolermaster Sirus 5.1 Headset


Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:31 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:37 am
Posts: 4
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@Butmunch
Oh Thanks Man!
Its really awesome Man.... I'm using Zalman override mod INF with my 32LW4500, set HDMI label to "none", set my Vertical Sharp to 56

And all ghosting + color bugs gone! You was right about extension bloc, its made Zalman Mod fixes ghosting and color bugs.

The only one problem, if I'm using "free NVIDIA 3DVISION" because of this mod is i don't know how to swap L/R to R/L like I can easy set it in iZ3D :(
I hope there will another workarounds for this :)

For while, I've just flip my LG glasses, yeah it looks so weird in my face, but it solve my problem for a while... LOL!

Cheers!


Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:18 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 78
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ujangjampang wrote:
@Butmunch
Oh Thanks Man!
Its really awesome Man.... I'm using Zalman override mod INF with my 32LW4500, set HDMI label to "none", set my Vertical Sharp to 56

And all ghosting + color bugs gone! You was right about extension bloc, its made Zalman Mod fixes ghosting and color bugs.

The only one problem, if I'm using "free NVIDIA 3DVISION" because of this mod is i don't know how to swap L/R to R/L like I can easy set it in iZ3D :(
I hope there will another workarounds for this :)

For while, I've just flip my LG glasses, yeah it looks so weird in my face, but it solve my problem for a while... LOL!

Cheers!


Good for you dude, as you have a 32" i bet 1080p interleaved looks extremely nice, i know it did on my 32pfl7606 and comparing that side by side with a 47 showed the larger pixel size to look abit blurry on the 47, 32" does look very nice indeed.

_________________
Samsung ps51e6500, Acer h5360bd + 80" fixed screen
Sli Gigabyte gtx670 Windforce x3
Intel 3770k Oc'd + Noctua Nh-D14
Asus Sabertooth Z77
8gb 2133mhz Crucial Smart Tracers Oc'd
Ocz Vertex 4 128gb
1tb Samsung F3
Coolermaster HafX
Demciflex full Magnetic Filter Set

Home 5.1 Surround Sound
Coolermaster Sirus 5.1 Headset


Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:56 am
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