1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

russellk
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by russellk »

Gatorkea wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:02 pm I was getting RGB full so I used that, btw I decided to return the x1300i , although the brightness was nice to have, I just could not jive with the poor black levels. I did back to back testing with the Optoma and I just preferred the image on it a bit more. I may just wait until hdmi 2.1 projectors come out to try upgrading again.
Was the x1300i not better in any way? I thought all DLPs have poor black levels. My TK800 is a couple of years old now and because the bulb has done a few thousand hours, the black levels are better but the colour brightness is worse.
I'm looking at an upgrade and I'm currenly thinking Optoma UHD35(+) or a BenQ, there is still a mixture of lamp v Led v laser etc. etc.

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about HDMI 2.1 for projectors at all. I think contrast and colour are much more important. I don't think DLPs can suport VRR and 4k 120hz is a bit of a dream. I'd rather have a high contrast laser or LED device with good black levels and motion resolution. Plus 3d, obviously :-)
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Gatorkea
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by Gatorkea »

The X1300i was certainly better brightness, but I think the optoma just looks better to my eyes. It's all subjective I guess, I am no expert either. In dark games the Benq seemed worse image, the optoma looks better in dark scenes but worse brightness. I may just keep trying projectors until I find the one I want to keep lol. I also tried the HZ39hdr , it was very bright but somehow the colors / image did not look good to me and the input lag felt like it was higher than it should have been, I only kept it for a few days and prematurely returned it, wish I had kept it longer though. It has potential for sure.

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by aofelix »

would jvc N series projector 4k/120hz do this ?

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RAGEdemon
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by RAGEdemon »

Quick browse - doubt it is 120Hz input. Link to 120hz spec?
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by Metal-o-Holic »

That latest entry model Nz7
Laser engine is hdmi2.1 model
With 4k120 capability so Atleast it should hold the bandwith.
Bye bye 7k€
… another 12% Price increase coming what i read from somewhere.
Nx5 Was cheap compare to these prices.
Jvc seems to be trying to get out to play with the big boys only

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by 3DNovice »

Probably still using some type of pixel shift technology and is not capable of any type of 4K 3D.

russellk
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by russellk »

I bought a new BenQ X3000i last week and have been playing with it all this week.

I've managed to get it working for 3d vision (1920x1080x120Hz) with the Nvidia glasses and the DLP link glasses. I just used the UHD40 edid that Paul shared as a starting point.

Had a lot of wierd quirks with CRU and the Nvidia control panel, but it's a few years since I messed around with this so I'd forgotten quite a lot.

Anyway, the X3000i is simply a fantastic projector. I'm coming from a TK800 and it improves on it in every conceivable way. 4k is fanstasic, it's ultra low lag, the colours and brightness are superb. Black levels could be better, but that's the only negative and the positives are many. I'm so glad I bought one, especially as I changed my main monitor to a non-3d compatible screen some time ago.
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by Gatorkea »

russellk wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:09 am I bought a new BenQ X3000i last week and have been playing with it all this week.

I've managed to get it working for 3d vision (1920x1080x120Hz) with the Nvidia glasses and the DLP link glasses. I just used the UHD40 edid that Paul shared as a starting point.

Had a lot of wierd quirks with CRU and the Nvidia control panel, but it's a few years since I messed around with this so I'd forgotten quite a lot.

Anyway, the X3000i is simply a fantastic projector. I'm coming from a TK800 and it improves on it in every conceivable way. 4k is fanstasic, it's ultra low lag, the colours and brightness are superb. Black levels could be better, but that's the only negative and the positives are many. I'm so glad I bought one, especially as I changed my main monitor to a non-3d compatible screen some time ago.

I am jealous , cannot wait to pick one up myself

russellk
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by russellk »

Gatorkea wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:00 am
russellk wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:09 am I bought a new BenQ X3000i last week and have been playing with it all this week.

I've managed to get it working for 3d vision (1920x1080x120Hz) with the Nvidia glasses and the DLP link glasses. I just used the UHD40 edid that Paul shared as a starting point.

Had a lot of wierd quirks with CRU and the Nvidia control panel, but it's a few years since I messed around with this so I'd forgotten quite a lot.

Anyway, the X3000i is simply a fantastic projector. I'm coming from a TK800 and it improves on it in every conceivable way. 4k is fanstasic, it's ultra low lag, the colours and brightness are superb. Black levels could be better, but that's the only negative and the positives are many. I'm so glad I bought one, especially as I changed my main monitor to a non-3d compatible screen some time ago.

I am jealous , cannot wait to pick one up myself
I don't know how it compares to the X1300i though, I know you weren't completely impressed by one of those? I think given the other plus points, like the colour brightness and 4k sharpness, this is a great device. It's 100% a keeper for me.
I got it working at 240Hz via my AV receiver too (Denon X4300h), which is a big bonus.
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by ZeGURU69 »

russellk wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:09 am I bought a new BenQ X3000i last week and have been playing with it all this week.

I've managed to get it working for 3d vision (1920x1080x120Hz) with the Nvidia glasses and the DLP link glasses. I just used the UHD40 edid that Paul shared as a starting point.

Had a lot of wierd quirks with CRU and the Nvidia control panel, but it's a few years since I messed around with this so I'd forgotten quite a lot.

Anyway, the X3000i is simply a fantastic projector. I'm coming from a TK800 and it improves on it in every conceivable way. 4k is fanstasic, it's ultra low lag, the colours and brightness are superb. Black levels could be better, but that's the only negative and the positives are many. I'm so glad I bought one, especially as I changed my main monitor to a non-3d compatible screen some time ago.
Hi Russell,

This video projector looks pretty good! I am currently using an Optoma UHD42 and there is an ultra detail option (adjustable from 0 to 3) which works wonders in 3D games.

I looked at the documentation for the X3000i and there is also a similar option called detail adjustment (in the image menu). Have you tried it? Does it make a big difference in the detail of the image?

On the Optoma, the difference is very important, you can't play in 3D without activating this option.

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by albert90 »

Wanted to ask if this was a reasonable price or can I get a better deal elsewhere?

russellk
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by russellk »

ZeGURU69 wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:32 pm
russellk wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:09 am I bought a new BenQ X3000i last week and have been playing with it all this week.

I've managed to get it working for 3d vision (1920x1080x120Hz) with the Nvidia glasses and the DLP link glasses. I just used the UHD40 edid that Paul shared as a starting point.

Had a lot of wierd quirks with CRU and the Nvidia control panel, but it's a few years since I messed around with this so I'd forgotten quite a lot.

Anyway, the X3000i is simply a fantastic projector. I'm coming from a TK800 and it improves on it in every conceivable way. 4k is fanstasic, it's ultra low lag, the colours and brightness are superb. Black levels could be better, but that's the only negative and the positives are many. I'm so glad I bought one, especially as I changed my main monitor to a non-3d compatible screen some time ago.
Hi Russell,

This video projector looks pretty good! I am currently using an Optoma UHD42 and there is an ultra detail option (adjustable from 0 to 3) which works wonders in 3D games.

I looked at the documentation for the X3000i and there is also a similar option called detail adjustment (in the image menu). Have you tried it? Does it make a big difference in the detail of the image?

On the Optoma, the difference is very important, you can't play in 3D without activating this option.
Hi, the projector is extremely good for what I want. It's bright, the colours are great and 3d is good too.
I haven't tried adjusting the image much yet, I'll check it out and let you know. One thing is that this has a new .65 DMD and the 4k is extremely sharp, I've spent a lot of time just enjoying 2d stuff.
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by ZeGURU69 »

So you were able to test the detail adjustment option ?

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by Gatorkea »

I just got the x3000i , but I am having trouble getting 3d vision to work. I installed the UDH40 edid, and deleted all resolutions above 1920x1080 in CRU, also set the refresh to 120hz. When trying to use photo viewer I get the double images and the emitter goes green, but glasses do not go dark and get 3d image.

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by Gatorkea »

disregard, I resolved the issue. The x3000i is quite good so far for 3d, minus the red ghosting i get sometimes but it is very subtle and kinda rare to even see it.

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by RAGEdemon »

Gents, I have been out of the projector purchasing scene for a while. What's currently the best projector for 3D? X3000i?

Sad about the HDMI 2.0 limitation, limiting 4k to 60Hz... Can it at least be hacked to do 1080p 240Hz in 3D? It seems to support this in 2D :)

Got to say chaps, I am not impressed by how slow projector tech is moving:
-- Back in 2010 we had 720p/800p @120Hz projectors. 12 years later, we only have 1080p@120Hz for 3D... in a £2000 3D projector at the same lumen output as those back 11 years ago. Not much of an improvement at all... I'm sure the colours might be nice though :)

@ZeGURU69, nVidia have a good solution to detail adjustment - check out their sharpening feature - it works very well in 3D. And I know exactly what you mean - sharpening is very important to me too... maybe I'm just going blind in my old age :D

--------------

TanookiPhoenix suggested that the GT1090HDR laser projector at 4200lumens.
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by 3DNovice »

RAGEdemon wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:37 am Sad about the HDMI 2.0 limitation, limiting 4k to 60Hz... Can it at least be hacked to do 1080p 240Hz in 3D? It seems to support this in 2D :)
It's the DMD that is limiting it, since it' needs to be flashed 4 times to address all of the 8,294,400 pixels.
4K@120Hz would require that it flash the mirror array 480 times a second.
If you look on youtube, you'll find DMD failures still occur, so I think they are at the limit of their capability on this 0.65 DMD.

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by RAGEdemon »

That's interesting; thanks for the info D-Man; I'll check out DMD limitations...

Is there a 1440p/1600p @ 120Hz 3D projector at least?
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by 3DNovice »

You would think so, since they have DMDs with 2x pixel shifting to achieve 4K.
HDMI 2.0 has enough bandwidth for it as well.
AFAIK, there are not any that officially support it currently. Unofficially?
Of course unofficially would likely mean no DLP Link support.
A 2x 4K DMD could technically support 4K 3D via Checkerboard, just like the Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP 3D HDTVs did.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The 0.65 used in the BenQ x3000i is an updated version of the 0.47 that has fixed an issue with light bleed at the edges.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This was a 2016 chip that I had downloaded the PDF for, by now, I imagine that they have a better one. I haven't followed recent developments,
so I'm unaware of what is out there. I'd surely be happy to see a Display Port connection, so that longer runs are not so iffy.
BTW, HDMI 2.1a supplies electricity over active HDMI cables directly.
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/hdmi- ... ectly.html
But Fu&$ HDMI and their draconian DRM, as well as those cheap worthless Chinese cables that are all over Amazon

The DLP660TE digital micromirror device (DMD) is based on a breakthrough micromirror technology,
called TRP. With a smaller pixel pitch of 5.4 μm and increased tilt angle of 17 degrees, TRP chipsets
enable high resolution in a smaller form factor, and enhanced image processing features, while
maintaining high optical efficiency

0.66-Inch diagonal micromirror array
– 2716 × 1528 array of aluminum micromirrors

Combining the DMD board and Formatter board
with an appropriate optical engine and illumination
source enables displays up to 5000 lumens

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by 3DNovice »

There are Sony and JVC projectors that support 4K@120, but 3D is only supported at 1080P and I'm not certain that they support Frame Sequential at all

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by RAGEdemon »

It's always an education talking with you D-Man - thank you for your unique insights... it seems that I ought to try and hold out my 12-year-old pjd6531w a few more years for both DMD tech and bandwidth limitations to advance to something more justifiable... :?
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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by 3DNovice »

Well my limited knowledge comes from reading posted articles around the web, Projector Central is always a place to start when looking for some of the new models.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/4k-pro ... efined.htm

Audio Visual Science forums is the best place for user experiences.
https://www.avsforum.com/forums/

DLP Projectors are still the winners in latency, but we had users on the old forums that used JVC, Sony, Epson and Christie projectors to game with.
BlackShark used/uses Epson LCD projectors for his 2 projector passive silverscreen set up.
Oddly, I can't recall anyone mentioned using a CRT projector for 3D Gaming


There's proprietary tech that can come into play when choosing. TVs are easy, you can walk into something like a Best Buy Magnolia store and compare the wall of TVs side by side.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Digita ... lained.htm

If you are not familiar with JVC projector tech
https://procision.jvc.com/technology.jsp
http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2007/ehexpo/dila_wpaper.pdf

Epson Tech
https://global.epson.com/technology/projector/
https://global.epson.com/technology/pro ... ource.html
https://global.epson.com/technology/pro ... splay.html

Sony Tech
https://pro.sony/ue_US/technology/sxrd

For anyone considering an Ultra Short Throw, just keep in mind that the screen must be perfectly flat or the imperfections such as a crease or warp will highlighted.

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Re: 1080P@120Hz LED Projectors

Post by 3DNovice »

Back in the day, a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon of saying that Checkerboard was a poop format without even having tried it, since it was interlaced

My brother had a Mitsubishi DLP 3D HDTV and it looked fantastic, and input response time was great as well. I would have got one, except that he developed really bad image burn in on his. Though, I think it was mostly due to his passing out drunk during his gaming sessions.

I've never seen a clear explanation of the technology used for 4K pixel shifting with Texas Instruments DMD mirror arrays. I would imagine that wobulation and the smooth picture algorithm are still used, just renamed to the fancier sounding pixel shifting

https://www.popsci.com/00html/article/2 ... obulation/
https://www.eetimes.com/the-smoothpictu ... -overview/

I really hope that Checkerboard could be achieved on 4K DLP Projectors using this, to me it would seem very plausible on the chips using 2x shifting.
4x? Dunno, perhaps it could also be possible??

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