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 Borderlands 3 
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:13 pm
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Guess I'll make my debut here by sharing the WIP for my Borderlands 3 fix that I just posted at the old place.

Here's the download link: https://www.mediafire.com/file/7f15ar40 ... x_WIP1.zip

Extract the fix to the .\Borderlands3\OakGame\Binaries\Win64 folder. Also make sure to select Fullscreen in the visuals options for the fix to work. If the game ever loads and stereo doesn't kick in, going into visuals and switching from fullscreen to borderless, apply, and then back from borderless to fullscreen gets 3D to initialize. Also recommended to use FXAA instead of TAA, as I think TAA has a subtle affect on the depth of objects in motion. All other options are to your preference.

The following keys are setup:

/ : Toggles between cell shading black outlines on/off (default on)
. : Adjusts static HUD depth
, : Toggles between the minimap and fullscreen map between being pushed into depth further, or less (and being aligned with the outer border of the minimap). The game itself defaults to it being pushed further in

I selected these keys because the game's default bindings already map several of my preferred keys.

Known/Remaininig issues:
-Some shadows that are underneath NPC's that are fixed have some blocky clipping (aka tile lighting). Although I now know how to fix this type of issue in other games, it's kinda hard to do without shader headers (thanks UE4). Have a lead on which shader might need to fix for these, but hasn't worked out quite yet. These shadows are so minor, though, I'm almost considering disabling them altogether.

-Volumetric lighting fix is a slight approximation and can be inaccurate at far distances. Additionally, volumetric fog is handled by the same shader, and when volumetric fog exists in the absence of volumetric lighting, the fix makes the fog inaccurate (which is otherwise accurate without the fix). This is a tough call, but I find that overall it's better with the fix on because broken lighting is MUCH more noticeable than the cases I've found with fog on it's own. Will take a closer look at this, or at the very least provide a toggle on/off before release.

-Some particles (sparks and rocks flung from explosions) only render in one eye. Still looking to find a solution for this (open to suggestions from other shaderhackers on this).

-Screenspace reflections are fixed, but due to how both SSRs are calculated and how 3DVision works, SSR's on the left/right edges of the screen sometimes do not render correctly in both eyes. Only been noticeable in a few odd places.


Alright, that's it. Get out and shoot some badasses with some badass guns.


Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:38 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:06 am
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U are the best ! :D Big thanks


Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:44 am
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One Eyed Hopeful
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thanks :geek:


Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:52 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:47 am
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thanks.. love your fixes!


Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:57 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:26 am
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I am not a Borderlands fan (I know, whats wrong with me?), but congrats on christening the new forums with its first 3D game fix!!! you guys are the lifeblood of this community!


Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:43 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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Fantastic news, thanks a lot for the fix!

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Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:47 pm
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Nice to see you here man, and much appreciated. Personally I will be waiting for the steam release and for it to go on sale, but always appreciate your work.

WE ARE ALIVE!


Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:14 am
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One Eyed Hopeful
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Same. :) It's not everyday that you get disc jockey rock stars in attendance, who just happen to do some shaderhacking as a sideline.

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Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:18 am
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:13 pm
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Necropants wrote:
Nice to see you here man, and much appreciated. Personally I will be waiting for the steam release and for it to go on sale, but always appreciate your work.

WE ARE ALIVE!


That's a shame because I think the game is quite stellar and they did a great job with the gameplay improvements, so I'm personally glad I didn't wait, but I can definitely understand the sentiment. I certainly was on the fence about getting it from the Epic store right up to the day of release, and it just so happened that I was out of work that week (and still am, which is starting to get worrisome :/) so I figured it would be a great way to keep me preoccupied and be the best chance of me actually being able to stay motivated enough to work on a fix for it, so I said screw it and pulled the trigger. Sooooo worth it.



ToThePoint wrote:
Same. :) It's not everyday that you get disc jockey rock stars in attendance, who just happen to do some shaderhacking as a sideline.


Actually, quite far from it now. I haven't even touched my DJ setup in nearly 2 years (for my radio show or fun/hobby purposes), let alone played out in any bars or clubs in like 7 or 8 years now. No, the username is just a relic from the past. Tbh, I thought about changing my handle as I came over here to the handle I use on other forums/sites/Steam/etc now, but I just decided to keep things consistent... for now.


Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:24 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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Yeah honestly the Epic store is a bit of a sticking point for me and I do not want to support them. To be honest I never even finished borderlands 2 or the pre-sequel either. so I can wait.
Actually the main issue I had is when they started offering exclusivity deals but then refusing to even have the title on their storefront when the developer turned it down.. Just a dick move and goes against everything they have been saying.

Sad to hear you are having issues still and have dropped the music career. I know this feel, I was semi "famous" here in my band but haven't taken the stage in 5 years now due to life getting in the way.

Hope things get better soon.


Last edited by Necropants on Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:12 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Necropants wrote:
Sad to hear you are having issues still and have dropped the music career. I know this feel, I was semi "famous" here in my band but haven't taken the stage in 5 years now due to life getting in the way.

Hope things get better soon.


Thanks man, I appreciate the empathy and cool to hear that was something you were into as well. Although I was never quite famous, I certainly did enjoy my few moments in the spotlight, and I do feel like a big part is missing from my life since I just suddenly dropped it altogether. A big part of me still yearns to try to get back involved in the scene, but then there's a side of me that is like, "You're (almost) 39 years old, that door is closed now and you're too old to reopen it" and then there's also a darker side of things that whole lifestyle led me to a life of addiction (which was hell to get out of), so it's almost certainly best left in the past... but I'll be damned if there aren't times I'm listening to one of my old mixes in my car and flooded with memories/emotions and a sense that there's a void that's missing in my life, and the thoughts and dreams of getting back into it all are truly the only thing that gets me that excited anymore... ok, that was depressing, lol.

But, ummm, hey, BL3 is great so it's all ok, right? ... right? *sadpanda* lol


Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:26 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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Yeah I totally get that, I actually had a significant relationship end when I stopped performing cause it seems like I just wasn't the same person anymore. Was a kinda like a part of me died and I lost it a bit. It's a really hard thing to quantify to others.

Oh well, up and up...


Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:41 am
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One Eyed Hopeful
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DJ-RK wrote:
Actually, quite far from it now. I haven't even touched my DJ setup in nearly 2 years (for my radio show or fun/hobby purposes), let alone played out in any bars or clubs in like 7 or 8 years now. No, the username is just a relic from the past. Tbh, I thought about changing my handle as I came over here to the handle I use on other forums/sites/Steam/etc now, but I just decided to keep things consistent... for now.


Likewise with my handle, as somewhat ironically, I hardly ever get to the point. Hey, I didn't necessarily expect you to still be clubbing ya know, but I'm not gonna lie, I'd be disappointed to hear that you don't at least wear a pair of Ray Ban Wayfearers indoors simply for the sake of coolness, at least when you're not wearing 3D glasses that is. Seriously though, I hope that things pick up for you. You're a smart dude, and where there's a will, there's always a way.

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Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:58 am
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One Eyed Hopeful
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Hi, DJ-RK. I don't have the game, but I think having a dynamic crosshair is important. If you want to make a dynamic crosshair, you can look at my Observer fix.

The key can be this part of the "crosshair.hlsl" I use:

Code:
return (far*near/((z)*near) + (far*z));


In some games I use that formula. In the majority I use:

Code:
return (far*near/((1-z)*near) + (far*z));


Second important part: convergence scaling. It varies per game. In Observer, the multiplier was 0.1:

Code:
w = (separation * convergence*0.1) / (separation - offset);


But in other games it can be 1, 5, 10...

If you use the crosshair code directly in the shader, you can make changes in real time, but if you use an external hlsl file, I think you need to restart the game to see the changes (I may be wrong about this).


Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:03 am
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Cross Eyed!

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masterotaku wrote:
Hi, DJ-RK. I don't have the game, but I think having a dynamic crosshair is important. If you want to make a dynamic crosshair, you can look at my Observer fix.


Y'know, normally I'm all about dynamic crosshairs, especially when there are waypoint markers and other ingame icons (which there aren't a lot of here), but to be perfectly honest I set the usual static crosshair at 95% depth in the beginning and haven't once found myself wishing I had bothered setting up a dynamic one as of yet. I'll probably still give it a shot to add it for the final release though (options are always nice) and I'll try your suggestions, thanks.

masterotaku wrote:
If you use the crosshair code directly in the shader, you can make changes in real time, but if you use an external hlsl file, I think you need to restart the game to see the changes (I may be wrong about this).


Actually I figured out a workaround to this pretty early on. The trick is anytime you make changes to the hlsl file and save it, you also have to make some minor change to the shader that includes it (I usually just add/delete some whitespace somewhere) and save that as well for it to reload the changes in the hlsl file.


Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:01 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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On a related topic, it appears Steam is releasing VR version of Borderlands 2 (including all DLC) on October 22. Devs still have not commented about VR plans for Borderlands 3.


Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:03 am
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Certif-Eyable!
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Hey
I would like to say thank you for making this fix. You're awesome.
I just bought the game, tested the wip fix you posted above and it appears to be working mostly all right.
I have only tried the first few scenes and first gunfight so far.

The UI and map distance buttons are a welcome feature. I've found the 2nd notch in depth to be quite comfortable.

So far my main difficulty with 3D is gun sight aiming.
You did a nice trick with the RMB turning the game into 2D, It does allow gun sights to work but I find the sudden 2D-3D switches to be uncomfortable.
The last time I played a FPS was Borderlands 2, and that was using Tridef and it's one-eye aiming system (which Nvidia 3D Vision does not have), It solves the gun sights issue in a very clean way and no artificial laser pointers jumping across the depth of the scene.

Is there any way to implement such a system using 3DMigoto ?

Other than that, I noticed a few minor things : the intro cinematic only displays in one eye (right eye).
If subtitles are on, they do display in both eyes, but since the left eye isn't refreshed, the subtitles stack on top on one another. (in the left eye where the video isn't displayed)

The story uses a video element : the siren, which is projected at a depth quite close to the camera, and as a result when pushing convergence, the video element is very crosseyed.
Can you target these videos and override their depth to the same depth as the UI ?
This may be difficult as these video elements are only displayed for a couple of seconds and then aren't to be seen until the next story moment.

Other than that, the game looks great, but performance doesn't match the visuals. The game feels much heavier than what's on the screen. And I have a lot of slowdowns whenever elements are loaded, characters first appear, first shots etc... I do not know it's only specific to my old computer, to 3D vision, or the fact that I have installed the game on an disk drive (my SSDs aren't big enough to house that game and all the other stuff I have installed at the same time).

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Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:34 am
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:13 pm
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BlackShark wrote:
Hey
I would like to say thank you for making this fix. You're awesome.


Cheers! Much appreciated!

BlackShark wrote:
So far my main difficulty with 3D is gun sight aiming.
You did a nice trick with the RMB turning the game into 2D, It does allow gun sights to work but I find the sudden 2D-3D switches to be uncomfortable.
The last time I played a FPS was Borderlands 2, and that was using Tridef and it's one-eye aiming system (which Nvidia 3D Vision does not have), It solves the gun sights issue in a very clean way and no artificial laser pointers jumping across the depth of the scene.

Is there any way to implement such a system using 3DMigoto ?


Only way I could think of be for me to try to edit the shaders for the weapons/sights/etc and physically move them, which would most likely be a headache beyond imagine (especially if ever gun has it's own shader), so unfortunately I doubt I can grant that wish. I'd bet there's probably a smarter, less tedious method (like a custom shader that somehow adjusts whatever is before a certain distance) that a genius like DSS could conjure up, but that's well beyond my ken. What might help, though, would be to add a transition between the 3D to 2D effect. I'll do some testing to see if I can find something that is comfortable.

BlackShark wrote:
Other than that, I noticed a few minor things : the intro cinematic only displays in one eye (right eye).


Thanks for reporting that. I had absolutely terrible performance with 3D enabled for the intro cinematics so I just turned 3D off in the beginning, and I've since deleted the intro videos. I doubt I'll be able to fix those, but can at least make a mention of it in the blog post

BlackShark wrote:
If subtitles are on, they do display in both eyes, but since the left eye isn't refreshed, the subtitles stack on top on one another. (in the left eye where the video isn't displayed)


And yeah, as you can imagine I don't play with subtitles so didn't know about that one either. Not sure how to go about fixing that, tbh.

BlackShark wrote:
The story uses a video element : the siren, which is projected at a depth quite close to the camera, and as a result when pushing convergence, the video element is very crosseyed.
Can you target these videos and override their depth to the same depth as the UI ?
This may be difficult as these video elements are only displayed for a couple of seconds and then aren't to be seen until the next story moment.


Wow, you must REALLY crank up the convergence ;). I play at 100 convergence and it's not an issue for me, however I have (since the last WIP) added a preset for while driving in vehicles that jacks up the convergence to 750, and I've noticed the issue there. And yeah, it's hard for me to catch these things during my playthrough (like I mentioned before about the broken lighting during a cutscene (which I'm pretty sure got fixed elsewhere, thank goodness)), but fortunately the first time Lilith speaks telepathically with you is near the beginning, so that's easy enough for me to fix since I can restart a new game as needed. Minor spoiler: Tannis also speaks to you telepathically later in the game, and if that uses a different shader (that I can't easily regex) then that might be harder to catch. Will need to look up if there's a way to back up my save locally and reload it, which would help with these.

BlackShark wrote:
Other than that, the game looks great, but performance doesn't match the visuals. The game feels much heavier than what's on the screen. And I have a lot of slowdowns whenever elements are loaded, characters first appear, first shots etc... I do not know it's only specific to my old computer, to 3D vision, or the fact that I have installed the game on an disk drive (my SSDs aren't big enough to house that game and all the other stuff I have installed at the same time).


Yeah, sadly that is the case, the performance is way heavier than you would expect from a game that doesn't look THAT much better than it's predecessor of 7 years ago. Be sure to look up a guide to find which settings are the heaviest. I run mostly high settings, with a few down to medium and some off. I do have it installed on a SSD, and don't really have stalls and hitching badly (unless I'm running 3DMigoto in devmode) like you've described, so perhaps you might want to look at moving some stuff around to make some room on a SSD while you are currently playing this.


Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:44 pm
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DJ-RK wrote:
BlackShark wrote:
So far my main difficulty with 3D is gun sight aiming.
You did a nice trick with the RMB turning the game into 2D, It does allow gun sights to work but I find the sudden 2D-3D switches to be uncomfortable.
The last time I played a FPS was Borderlands 2, and that was using Tridef and it's one-eye aiming system (which Nvidia 3D Vision does not have), It solves the gun sights issue in a very clean way and no artificial laser pointers jumping across the depth of the scene.

Is there any way to implement such a system using 3DMigoto ?


Only way I could think of be for me to try to edit the shaders for the weapons/sights/etc and physically move them, which would most likely be a headache beyond imagine (especially if ever gun has it's own shader), so unfortunately I doubt I can grant that wish. I'd bet there's probably a smarter, less tedious method (like a custom shader that somehow adjusts whatever is before a certain distance) that a genius like DSS could conjure up, but that's well beyond my ken. What might help, though, would be to add a transition between the 3D to 2D effect. I'll do some testing to see if I can find something that is comfortable.

This sounds complicated.
The tridef way was camera based. Instead of shifting the camera 1/2 the interpupilary distance left and right to create the stereo pair of images, it would keep the original camera's position for one eye, and only shift the camera for the other eye by the entire interpupilary distance. This way, at least one of the eyes would always line up with the original developer's intentions.

I do not know if such a feature exists in 3D Migoto, or if such a feature could be added to 3D Migoto, or if only Nvidia could add it in their original 3D Vision automatic driver (which nobody is working on anymore).
I tried launching Borderlands with Tridef for old times sake but the game is completely broken.

DJ-RK wrote:
Wow, you must REALLY crank up the convergence ;).

It depends on the game.
I usually try to push converngence to the average center of attention. And with an FPS like Borderlands, it's usually quite far in the distance. (almost like 75% of the entire scene is in pop-out).
But then I lower the 3D strength by a significant amount in order to keep the gun in the hand to go too far crosseyed.
It also helps (usually) with crosshairs since they are often drawn in 2D at the screen depth (not in borderlands 3... or is it because your patch which moved them at infinity ?)

This is a non-realistic setting, but it usually yields very good results : the 3D effect is usually milder, but a lot more comfortable to watch because my eyes spend most of the time focusing very close to the convergence distance : right on the screen.
In some cases , you can end up with the entire scene almost up to the horizon in negative parallax. But going that extreme mostly only works because I'm using a projector. It doesn't work on a desktop monitor.
It's a very similar technique than what films use. (center of attention = screen depth, then lower separation to keep the negative parallax in a comfortable range).

DJ-RK wrote:
BlackShark wrote:
Other than that, the game looks great, but performance doesn't match the visuals. The game feels much heavier than what's on the screen. And I have a lot of slowdowns whenever elements are loaded, characters first appear, first shots etc... I do not know it's only specific to my old computer, to 3D vision, or the fact that I have installed the game on an disk drive (my SSDs aren't big enough to house that game and all the other stuff I have installed at the same time).


Yeah, sadly that is the case, the performance is way heavier than you would expect from a game that doesn't look THAT much better than it's predecessor of 7 years ago. Be sure to look up a guide to find which settings are the heaviest. I run mostly high settings, with a few down to medium and some off. I do have it installed on a SSD, and don't really have stalls and hitching badly (unless I'm running 3DMigoto in devmode) like you've described, so perhaps you might want to look at moving some stuff around to make some room on a SSD while you are currently playing this.

The graphics are nicer than Borderlands 2, it's just that artsy Cell shaded games last longer than photorealistic ones.
I believe I figured out why my framerate was so low... (30fps in stereo in heavy scenes, no matter the settings, even with minimum graphics settings and 50% scaled resolution it doesn't go up)

My CPU is the minimum spec of the game. I guess it's high time for my trusty Core i5 3570 to retire. I've never had a CPU last that long.

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2x Epson EH-TW3500 (2D 1080p)
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Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:06 pm
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Cross Eyed!

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:13 pm
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BlackShark wrote:
I usually try to push converngence to the average center of attention. And with an FPS like Borderlands, it's usually quite far in the distance. (almost like 75% of the entire scene is in pop-out).
But then I lower the 3D strength by a significant amount in order to keep the gun in the hand to go too far crosseyed.
It also helps (usually) with crosshairs since they are often drawn in 2D at the screen depth (not in borderlands 3... or is it because your patch which moved them at infinity ?)


Yeah, that would explain it. I know people use the ol' "low separation, high convergence" trick for playing games that don't have proper fixes, but I've never heard of someone actually using that as their preferred method of playing. Different strokes, I guess :P.

BlackShark wrote:
I believe I figured out why my framerate was so low... (30fps in stereo in heavy scenes, no matter the settings, even with minimum graphics settings and 50% scaled resolution it doesn't go up)

My CPU is the minimum spec of the game. I guess it's high time for my trusty Core i5 3570 to retire. I've never had a CPU last that long.


Yep, you've definitely described a CPU bottleneck situation there. At least you can upgrade your CPU infrastructure with confidence. When I upgraded from my good ol' 2500k to a 6600k (and later a 7700k) I didn't feel or notice any difference, and made me wonder if I put my $800 CAD to good use (especially since I was able to hit 4.6 Ghz on the old chip). I guess I can now take solace in knowing that if I didn't then this is one game (probably amongst many, now) that I would have suffered for if I hadn't have upgraded at the time.


Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:34 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Full release: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2019/10/borderlands-3.html


Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:48 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Totally awesome! Thanks for this fix, a much desired game. Even if you had to go rogue to do it. :->

I'm for sure going to pick this up now, once it's out of jail.


Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:05 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Thank you for your talent and dedication in crafting this fix, DJ-RK! You help keep this community vibrant. We users need to donate to DJ-RK and Losti (and the other talented shaderhackers) whenever possible...


Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:33 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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bo3bber wrote:
Totally awesome! Thanks for this fix, a much desired game. Even if you had to go rogue to do it. :->

I'm for sure going to pick this up now, once it's out of jail.


Couldn't be happier knowing that you will eventually be enjoying this, we all owe so much to you for all you've done over the years and knowing all your hard work comes full circle with you being able to just sit back and have fun with one of my fixes gives me warm and fuzzy feelings inside. lol, not really, but thanks all the same :->.

But yeah, I'm not quite as hard opposed to the Epic storefront as a lot of other people, so I don't quite consider myself a sellout. I was somewhat on the fence, and this is the game that pushed me over (Borderlands 1 is one of my all time favourite games). Makes me a little sad knowing that a lot of people will be waiting a year to enjoy this, though. Such a shame, but I'm glad I didn't wait, that's for sure.

whyme466 wrote:
Thank you for your talent and dedication in crafting this fix, DJ-RK! You help keep this community vibrant. We users need to donate to DJ-RK and Losti (and the other talented shaderhackers) whenever possible...


Cheers man, and thanks for the donation you sent when I first posted my WIP, those are always appreciated (but never expected). Also thanks for you doing your part in helping people (including myself) migrate and other helpful reminders you've sent me from time to time. ;) It's nice that we're all just looking out for one another in our own ways.


Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:11 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Just pushed an update to the blog. The main inclusion is a 3D crosshair (with static depth options, of course) and in-game waypoints, which I've had working for a while now but wanted to try to tackle a few of the remaining issues before posting an update. Unfortunately still haven't been able to improve on the specular highlights and volumetric fog issues, but I did fix a few newly introduced broken effects from the Bloody Harvest event that's still going on for another month, so figured now's a good time to make the update live.


Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:24 pm
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