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 A New Breed of Virtual Reality Platform: Project Nimbus 
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One Eyed Hopeful
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No barriers.
No containing ring.
No sliding.
No special footwear.

Complete freedom, to actually move, run and jump in any direction, at any speed, without boundaries.
Ground shaking effects for massive immersion in the biggest battles.

Wind blowing effects for the real feel of running.
Other possible effects in consideration.

Playable with todays games.
Ready for tomorrows.

This is the Nimbus.

I am currently working on the design of a prototype build that I will be putting on Kickstarter to build once ready. After which if the prototype functions properly I will proceed to full funding.

I will be starting a project blog in my forum at http://www.TheMakerBoards.com to post pictures, updates and announcements as I move forward!
If you'd like to check it out and keep up to date with the Nimbus, feel free to check it out, become a member and subscribe to the blog here:

Click here to check out the new Kobratek Nimbus Project Blog


It’s up to us to bring the virtual, Into reality.

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Last edited by KSharx on Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:56 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Sounds great, but I'm skeptical. Good luck in any case.

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Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:26 pm
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Thank you cyber, I appreciate the support! I'm hoping to have some initial design images up by the end of the week for you guys to check out. After a lot of thought about my original idea and the best way to translate motion through the platform I think I've finally figured it out, so one of the hardest parts is now out of the way. :)

Thanks again for your support!

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Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:30 am
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I share Cyber's sentiment.

Very curious for those design images (or even a description of the apparatus's mode of operation).


Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:15 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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I've decided to apply for a provisional patent before I reveal anything. I didn't realize how many loopholes and such there are in the patent world. Once I feel my idea is safe to reveal I will share it, however, I'll still keep you all updated on my build and patenting progress, just not specifics at the moment!

Any advice you guys could give me on the legal aspects of protecting my idea would be great too, thank you!

Patents gahhhh :roll:

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Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:27 am
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!
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KSharx wrote:
I've decided to apply for a provisional patent before I reveal anything. I didn't realize how many loopholes and such there are in the patent world. Once I feel my idea is safe to reveal I will share it, however, I'll still keep you all updated on my build and patenting progress, just not specifics at the moment!

Any advice you guys could give me on the legal aspects of protecting my idea would be great too, thank you!

Patents gahhhh :roll:


One simple and cheap way of establishing 'prior art' (for what it's worth) is to mail your idea description along with any drawings etc to yourself in a securely sealed envelope/packet that will be returned to you with a postmark so establishing an 'official' date of the idea.

Obviously do not open the package on it's delivery back to you.


Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:25 am
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Petrif-Eyed
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KSharx wrote:
I've decided to apply for a provisional patent before I reveal anything. I didn't realize how many loopholes and such there are in the patent world. Once I feel my idea is safe to reveal I will share it, however, I'll still keep you all updated on my build and patenting progress, just not specifics at the moment!

Any advice you guys could give me on the legal aspects of protecting my idea would be great too, thank you!

Patents gahhhh :roll:



I half considered patenting some of my projects a long time ago but came to the conclusion that it just wasn't worth it. This guys sums up my thinking on the subject pretty well.



Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:16 pm
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I've heard about the poor man's patent before, but a lot of the articles I've read about it say it won't hold up in court, but, I still plan to do it anyways!

And brantle that video makes a lot of sense, I can see why I wouldn't really need patent protection right now, however, I just worry that, say I release my idea and it gets as much support as Oculus or the omni did, I don't think I would be able to protect my idea in the future because of public disclosure beforehand, and theoretically, anybody, or large company could copy my design exactly and freely use it as their own...

It's all so confusing and costly!

Also just an update, I was up till 3:30 last night working on the Nimbus ;)

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Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:29 am
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Perhaps you can release the images under a license such that by clicking through to and viewing the images you are obligated to keep them confidential and to not steal them.

There are hundreds of licenses like this floating around for you to use.


Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:07 pm
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zalo wrote:
Perhaps you can release the images under a license such that by clicking through to and viewing the images you are obligated to keep them confidential and to not steal them.

There are hundreds of licenses like this floating around for you to use.


Once something is revealed it's out there...... like NDA's mostly not worth the paper they're written on. Even fully registered patents can be 'worked around' as suggested by the OP, traction in the market is the best way forward.


Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:40 pm
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KSharx wrote:
I just worry that, say I release my idea and it gets as much support as Oculus or the omni did, I don't think I would be able to protect my idea in the future because of public disclosure beforehand


An interesting example because Oculus didn't file a provisional before their Kickstarter. I think Virtuix did but I haven't seen any reason why they should have since their competitors have mostly taken different approaches and nobody is really blatently copying them. The one guy I do know that went through the entire patent process in this field was a guy right here on these forums that did the Wizdish. He developed his prototype over many years and got a patent on it but was eclipsed by Virtuix when they went to Kickstarter. His Kickstarter failed to catch fire soon after, and there was valid controversy that Virtuix infringed on his work.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=16294&p=97264#p97264

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=17861&start=80#p134230

So you see - there is a very real example in this exact field of a patent not really protecting anything.


Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:30 pm
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Oh wow, now that's interesting, I had no idea Oculus started without a provisional...were they able to file after disclosing their idea and how it worked to the public?

Traction may very well be the best way forward. I just worry because of the coming virtual reality revolution that big companies will be able to ride off the grassroot developers ideas once it fully hits. Just yesterday I saw a Google article on Facebook called Google cardboard that folded into a rift shaped headset, which makes me think Google is entering the arena, which is why I would feel more comfortable with some form of legal protection on my design.

My plan so far is to continue development, and either try to raise funds to build a basic prototype without the electrical components programmed and developed or to try for full funding and put together a team to help finish the programming and electrical work, and at the same time apply for a provisional either way for some form of protection later on if it catches.

Any thoughts?

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Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:42 am
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Petrif-Eyed
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Things have changed a bit in the two years since VR was an incredibly small niche of garage enthusiasts, but I still think that the market for motion systems is still pretty small. Like the guy in the video says, I think establishing credibility with the enthusiasts is basically a form of marketing. That is the entire target audience. Going about it in secret has some advantages, but pre-establishing your market is also very important. Just look at the example of Oculus versus True-Player-Gear or AntVR. Palmer developed in a quasi-open-source fashion and became the established expert and darling of the VR community while the other companies were greeted with skepticism when they announced.

Full-disclosure: I work for Oculus. I don't have any agenda other than I like to watch cool projects develop in real-time, and I am just stating my personal opinions based on the years I have witnessed in these forums.


Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:28 pm
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Brantley, you have a point. It would be a much funnier process to develop it with the communitys support and input, rather than in secret. I suppose a patent really isn't the deciding factor in a niche field right now, rather, which product people actually get excited about and run with.

Thank you for your insight....time to think... :idea:

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Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:53 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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Bringing up the Wizdish is an excellent example of how being secretive can be a bad thing. When the inventor disclosed it and tried to get funding, he was already heavily set on his product. Once the public looked at it, people began critiquing it. They pointed out very valid concerns such as the lack of a safety harness, and the inventor refused to acknowledge any of that criticism as valid. At that point, he had a lot of time invested in the product along with his patent, and I think that prevented him from listening to feedback and making adjustments. Of course, he also wasn't very good at marketing.


Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:57 pm
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There is a middle ground as well. Krenzo has one of those projects where the implementation details are kept fairly guarded but the results are shown every once in a while to drum up excitement.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15623

And honestly that's what people mostly want to see - just the progress. Not as much the nitty-gritty stuff. A lot of projects around here are like that. I also had a similar project on this forum where the trade secrets were held closely but the results were displayed and honestly it kept me motivated being able to share it every so often.


Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:57 pm
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That's not to say that some of us don't want the nitty gritty details :lol:


Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:06 am
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brantlew wrote:
There is a middle ground as well. Krenzo has one of those projects where the implementation details are kept fairly guarded but the results are shown every once in a while to drum up excitement.


You should see how my conversation with potential investors go. "You need to delete everything immediately! Take down your youtube video! It's all just sitting there ready to be copied! Get a patent right now!"


Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:53 am
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Krenzo wrote:
brantlew wrote:
There is a middle ground as well. Krenzo has one of those projects where the implementation details are kept fairly guarded but the results are shown every once in a while to drum up excitement.


You should see how my conversation with potential investors go. "You need to delete everything immediately! Take down your youtube video! It's all just sitting there ready to be copied! Get a patent right now!"



Funny, because it's not like RF tracking hasn't permeated through the VR community. Every week or so you'll see some arm-chair VR quarterback say something on a forum like "all they gotta do is triangulate some radio signals" or the even more popular inside-out optical tracking assumption. "just stick a camera on it and 'poof' - magic tracking" It's not really the ideas that are so novel that they need protection. We're not making paper clips here! It's the implementation that is so difficult and precious.

I had similar thinking with Red Rovr. I thought the GPS/phone thing was so easy to copy that I couldn't let that into the public. I had everyone signing NDA's and stuff. :lol: After I released the info I thought surely someone would copy it. But nope. People don't want to copy unproven ideas. And they certainly don't want to spend an ounce of time and money researching and developing an implementation of an idea. People only want to copy an idea once it's proven to be a money maker.


Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:04 pm
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Luckily for garage engineers, VR is still very much a niche market with all the copycats all focused on HMDs. Make huge inroads into the market while you still can. The arguments for not wasting time and money on patents is a valid one, at least for a company with very few employees. The costs and difficulty associated with defending your patents in court are orders of magnitude larger than they were at the dawn of patent law. Now the system primarily works in favor of large corporations who have dedicated legal departments to duke it out in court.

As for worrying about being copied, I understand wanting to be rewarded for your work, but it's unfortunate that so many people feel "their" idea should provide them a comfortable living for a 100 lifetimes. I'm not saying it's okay to blatantly copy a product, but I can't help but wonder why do we have such elevated expectations for the value of our work, or worry too much over any potentially "lost" revenue in the future?


Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:58 pm
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Hey guys just a quick update. I've been camping all weekend so I haven't had access to the internet or my computer. I put in a ton of hours designing the Nimbus last night. I've still yet to decide if I'm going to go at it without a patent or not, but I'm leaning towards developing it with the community and just not revealing the exact mechanism that makes it able to function.

Also, I've decided, for the prototype at least, to leave out the ability to crawl, as the size/value ratio is far too out of wack.

What are some things you guys would like to see in a vr movement platform?

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Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:28 am
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One Eyed Hopeful
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Hey guys just to let you know what I'm up to. I've been diving into electronic circuits and programming microcontrollers for a few days now. My plan right now is to finish the last 25% of my cad design and then start developing a simple prototype of the piece I will use to transfer motion through the platform using an arduino. I'm going to be moving into my own place by the 27th so I should have much more free time to develop the Nimbus and share videos/pictures and such with the community as I develop it. But I'm hoping to have at least some initial design images up in a week or so. Sorry for the wait!

Also, Palmer if you're reading this, thanks for the support on Facebook dude! And anybody else who liked Kobratek as well! Thank you!

Back to work guys! b( °_°)d

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Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:20 am
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Hey guys, sorry I've been so busy. Still really preparing to move into my new apartment on the 27th. I haven't really had any time to work on my design between work, my girlfriend, and playing with the rift :D However! Ive got a lot of other important things that needed to get done, done!

1. I've managed to greatly reduce the cost to build my platform, which is pretty awesome!
2. I've decided on the motors that I'll need to build a prototype.
3.I've also started designing my motion driving device. (which I'm still trying to decide weather to release publicly yet or not) :roll:

I'm trying to keep the cost of the materials and production as low as possible, while still delivering a high quality device at a price range similar to the omnis.

Later guys!

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Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:53 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Can't wait to see what you have. Wondering how different it would be from your competitors, e.g. the Infinadeck or the Omni?


Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:03 pm
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Hey emsman!
Thanks for the support. I've seen the omni and infinideck, and they're both great products, especially for VR in general. What I can tell you so far is that it's a completely different approach to a VR movement platform that nobody, that I know of at least, has thought of yet! :D

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Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:11 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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File a provisional... it's cheap, and you have a year file a non-provisional and/or a PCT application. Most if not all serious investors won't so much as say "hello" to you unless you have some basic protection in place. I speak from experience.


Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:48 pm
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Before you file a PPA you could conduct your own patent search here: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/law/disclo ... cument.jsp
If you find something similar check all its cited patents and then search again using the results. You can also look through likely classifications.
You used to be able to file a document disclosure but that's been discontinued http://www.uspto.gov/patents/law/disclo ... cument.jsp

One of the main reasons to patent is to prevent others stopping you making your own invention. Be aware that its very expensive. I had thought Kickstarter backers wouldn't like their money being used on patents to prevent them from competing, but maybe I'm wrong.

Far from being put off we have done a vast amount of R&D on WizDish in the past year. We put it forward as a science project but I take the point about marketing. Our approach is to get it right before making any claims but maybe I'm wrong there too :) We get a very encouraging response every time we demo it in public and I will share our latest version with you soon.
Please don't think we didn't listen to criticism. We really did! That's why we've been so quiet while we work on the points raised.

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Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:22 am
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Good to hear from you again Flassan. Looking forward to seeing your innovations with the Wizdish. So much activity in motion platforms and limb tracking these days. It's very exciting.


Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:54 am
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Cheers Brant. It's also great to see the Virtualizer doing well on KS.
I think many of us believe that locomotion is an essential component of VR and someone said competition validates the market.

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Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:07 am
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I have to admit, I was extremely skeptical of the Virtualizer when the first videos started showing up, but the latest prototypes have piqued my interest. From the looks of it, it appears to have a more natural motion and easier learning curve than Jan's device. Of course we've really only seen one person using it. I will be interested to see other people using it. Additionally, they are still being a bit secretive about the integrated tracking. We'll see whether they have something there or whether it's smoke and mirrors.


Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:58 pm
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IanBruce wrote:
File a provisional... it's cheap, and you have a year file a non-provisional and/or a PCT application. Most if not all serious investors won't so much as say "hello" to you unless you have some basic protection in place. I speak from experience.
Flassan wrote:
Before you file a PPA you could conduct your own patent search here: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/law/disclo ... cument.jsp
If you find something similar check all its cited patents and then search again using the results. You can also look through likely classifications.
You used to be able to file a document disclosure but that's been discontinued http://www.uspto.gov/patents/law/disclo ... cument.jsp

One of the main reasons to patent is to prevent others stopping you making your own invention. Be aware that its very expensive. I had thought Kickstarter backers wouldn't like their money being used on patents to prevent them from competing, but maybe I'm wrong.


Thank you both for the advice! I'm still not sure what I'm going to do patent wise...I really haven't had any time to focus on my design since my move out/in day is this Tuesday. My plan right now is to continue development after I'm all moved in and slowly release images and videos of my build process, while not actually showing how the device works or how to build it to enable me to get a patent later on, if I needed to...

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Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:19 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Interesting this thread, but it should be named "Secret vs. Opened development" or something like that, since it doesn't disclose anything about project Nimbus. :roll:


Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:34 pm
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Hey guys, sorry for the long and much overdo update regarding project nimbus. I've had a lot going on these past few months with moving and trying to catch up on bills, but I'm going to have some big changes these next few months.

In January I'll be quitting my job and moving out toward Boston with my girlfriend. Instead of getting another 9-5 I'm going to take a risk and put my metal machining skills to work trying to support myself with my own small business. My plan is to make rings. Not normal rings, but unique rings for the more techy people like me who wish there were such a thing. I can post some previews of designs I have so far so you can see what I mean.

What does this mean for project nimbus?
My hope is that I'll get enough support from my geek brethren to pay my rent and eat ramen each month. I'll be selling most of my favorite things... my jeep, my subwoofer, and most likely, selling my Oculus dk1 for the time being.

I'll be working in a shop called "Artisans Asylum" which is basically a giant warehouse full of people like us who want to push the limits and create things that haven't even been thought of yet. And yes, giant robots as well.

I'll have access to prototrak milling machines, lathes, plasma cutters, 3d printers and hundreds of minds much smarter than my own. My hope is that being in an environment like this will push the development of the nimbus forward, and being able devote 100% of my working hours toward my own personal ideas (Project Nimbus, Rustek Rings) will greatly increase the chances of having a physical prototype designed, made and funded.

This is a big risk, and a drastic change towards trying to create a better, more exciting life, and I hope you guys are on board for the ride as I make the move.

This Sunday I'll be taking more about project Nimbus on a podcast my friend and I run, FreakNOdd Pod. You can listen to us on Stitcher, iTunes, Facebook and anywhere else with the rss link http://www.freaknoddpod.com/rss

Be sure to tune in! (http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/3241780)
If you want to support my company Kobratek & Project Nimbus or my yet to be started ring business (Rustek Rings), you can find them both on Facebook. Any likes or shares are greatly appreciated and motivate me beyond belief.

Talk more later, just thought I'd pop in and give you guys an update on where I'm at!

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Last edited by KSharx on Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:17 pm
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Image

;)

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Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:03 pm
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Cool.

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Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:20 pm
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Hey guys! Long time no update.

If anybody is still interested in following along with this project, I've finally made it to Boston and have the time and resources to start devoting a serious effort in actually building a Nimbus platform.

I will be starting a project blog in my forum at http://www.TheMakerBoards.com to post pictures, updates and announcements as I move forward!
If you'd like to check it out and keep up to date with the Nimbus, feel free to check it out, become a member and subscribe to the blog here:

Click here to check out the new Kobratek Nimbus Project Blog

I'm excited to start working on this project again and can't wait to build this thing with you guys! :D

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Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:31 pm
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I am curious if this treadmill concept will work.
Meanwhile i had a great unique idea how to control a virtual avatar without actually moving and without nasty nerve Interfaces. Ha!
I am curious if somebody someday will also come up with this idea.
There is a way to at least try Full Dive completely non invasive.
ALL a question of force.
No i am not talking about a crazy lawnmower guy suspended in a ring like a marionette in an exoskeleton suit.
There is actually one other way how you can do Full dive.
I am pretty sure it would work. Question would be more how good it would work.
One Cookie i throw onto the other side. One essential part of the System is called proprioceptive illusion induced by vibration and was discovered in the 70s.
It is all about mecanoreceptors which are still left to get manipulated.
They are also in the inner ear. So basically you can trigger rotation and acceleration with ultrasound.



Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:20 am
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