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 s23a700 and 3d vision on gtx 600 and above(no powerstrip) 

Did it work?
Swap period improved to 1hr or better on first try. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Swap period improved to 1hr or better on multiple tries. 100%  100%  [ 1 ]
Swap period improved to 30min or better on multiple tries. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Swap period improved to 15min or better on multiple tries. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Did not work satisfactorily. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Had no effect. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 1

 s23a700 and 3d vision on gtx 600 and above(no powerstrip) 
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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Hello,
Some time ago, I discovered a method to reduce the eye swapping with 3DVision on Samsung s23a700 displays when used by DVI by using the powerstrip software. Unfortunately powerstrip does not run properly on gtx600 series of graphics cards. Hence I have discovered another method for the series.

I have built 5 tiny tools using c programming, openGL and NVAPI to try to resolve the problem. Presently I have only been able to improve the swap pereod to 15 minutes as I did not have much time with my pc.
The tools are:
1. A high precision pixel clock finding tool.
2. A high precision GPU's refresh rate finding tool.
3. A high precision Display's refresh rate finding tool.
4. A NVIDIA Timing setting tool with pixel clock control.
5. A simple pixel clock, refresh rate, total pixels combination finding tool.

The results, however, are based on the system clock and may not be in perfect sync with actual time.

The Timing setting and Pixel clock finding tools will work only on NVIDIA GPUs as they use NVAPI. Also the Display's refresh rate finding tool will work only on the displays with the option to manually enable frame sequential 3D mode due to its method.

The results in the tools are obtained by averaging the readings, and hence take time. The Pixel Clock finding tool takes a lot of time (10-12 hrs or depending on input) and it is recommended to run it at night or any time when you won't need to use your computer. You may switch off your display while running the pixel clock and GPU refresh rate finding tools. You may run them along with light weight tasks like downloading in the background. However you won't need to run it a second time once you get the results, just keep the readings saved. If you decide to format the pc, next time just install the edid override, enable 3d vision and use the 4th tool to apply the settings again.

The instruction are given in the attached file.

Do report if it worked for you.

If it did please post the results here so that if all gpus matching your's has the same readings, others will not have to calculate the readings, though it's probability is rare. You may also decide to distribute the task of finding the pixel clocks.

Do ask if there are problems and suggestions are welcome too...


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Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:27 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm
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Interesting find.

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Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:47 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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Thanks!
This time I was able to improve my swap period to about 62 minutes with my gtx760. I used 2054 x 1140 @ 28100 pClk.

NOTE: THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME PROBLEM WITH THE AVERAGE CALCULATIONS. TRY THE OTHER TIMING(RESOLUTION, PIXEL CLOCK) RESULTS FROM THE COMBINATIONS.EXE OUTPUT IN STEP 33 BEFORE PROCEEDING TO CONFIRM THAT THE RESULTS ARE PROPER.
It is possible that a pixel clock was miscalculated and it's result will be unexpected. Try a few more combinations for the same refresh rate to make sure the swap period is nearly same for the refresh rate.

Also in the HiAccuRefRateDisp app set the no. of swaps for calculation to lower values like 2 or 3 as the swap period increases, you don't want to sit for hours clicking...

I was checking out unigine's valley benchmark in 3d, setting it to max depth reminded me why I bought a 3d monitor! Also when rendering 3d in sbs or tab mode there is no drop in performance as there is no change in resolution and nothing extra is rendered. I wonder why other engines/games do not use these methods properly.


Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:51 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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abddbz wrote:
Also when rendering 3d in sbs or tab mode there is no drop in performance as there is no change in resolution and nothing extra is rendered. I wonder why other engines/games do not use these methods properly.

Although the pixel fill rate is the same, you are still rendering from 2 different perspectives. This means you will be doing double the transforms and double the draw calls. It still takes a hit.

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Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:18 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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Right! I forgot about it. The Unigene engine must have separate optimizations though.


Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:11 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:10 am
Posts: 6
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Hey man !!! :shock:
Started first step now ... Will reply here as soon as possible !
Thanks a lot, you didn't give up unlike me ... :cry:


Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:50 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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Good luck! Just ask if you need help.


Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:54 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:10 am
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Hi, i'm stuck at step34
Quote:
...if the eye swapping frequency has increased, if so exit without saving and repeat from step 20 to 27 except this time subtract in step 23...

Please, what do you mean by "...subtract in step 23..." ? Effectively the eye swapping frequency has increased (from 44 sec to 17 sec approx...)
Thanks for your help !


Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:08 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:10 am
Posts: 6
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Do you mean "rr=refresh rate of GPU(step 13) - refresh rate difference(step 18) ?"
testing...
edit: ok now eye swapping time 22 :(
By the way i've got this in step 8 :

28000 280.010157
28050 280.510890
28100 281.011164
28150 281.511317
28200 282.011467
28250 282.510841
28300 283.010923
28350 283.511112
28400 283.982045
28450 284.511117
28500 285.010444
28550 285.511232
28600 286.010836
28650 286.510970
28700 287.011560
28750 287.511677
NvAPI_DISP_TryCustomDisplay error!
28800 -1.000000
NvAPI_DISP_TryCustomDisplay error!
28850 -1.000000
NvAPI_DISP_TryCustomDisplay error!
28900 -1.000000
NvAPI_DISP_TryCustomDisplay error!
28950 -1.000000
NvAPI_DISP_TryCustomDisplay error!
29000 -1.000000

I thik i'm gonna do it again and come back...
thanks again !


Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:15 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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Yes! In step 23 just subtract the refresh rate difference of step 18 from the refresh rate of the GPU in step 13 and enter it in the command prompt.

The concept is that if there is a difference in the obtained refresh rate from actual refresh rate, the difference is either positive or negative. If positive, adding the difference will increase the total difference causing increase in the frequency of swapping and subtracting the difference should decrease the swapping.

Unfortunately, the method I have used (vsync in openGL) to obtain the refresh rates is giving variable refresh rates for many readings(as in your case). This is causing inaccurate differences and hence the swapping frequency is increasing in both the cases(addition and subtraction). For this reason multiple tries are required to obtain the desired swapping frequency instead of one!

I would recommend that you do step 2 to 9 twice or thrice with the exact same entries(inputs). This will allow you to compare the results and select the pixel clocks that remain constant or vary minimum and hence are accurate. Unfortunately it will require even more time. :(

The apps work by finding the averages. Hence the longer you give time for calculation the more accurate it will be(step 4). Try 2400 seconds instead of 1200. Increase the increment of pixel clocks to 100 to reduce time.

AND ALSO DO NOT FORGET TO CHECK IF YOUR MONITOR'S REFRESH RATE AND RESOLUTION ARE RESET TO DEFAULT AFTER EACH RUN OF STEP 2 TO 9. Go to monitor's menu>information. It should be 1920x1080 @ 110 Hz(after the edid override). If not, see the note after step 9.

Also try out the other refresh rates obtained in step 26 in step 33. If the swapping period increases above 44 seconds, you are on the right path. Inform me and I'll tell you how to continue.

Also the errors should not come up but you probably knew that! :D I couldn't exactly pinpoint the cause but it seems that for some reason the pixel clocks 28800 and above have failed to apply and hence could not be tested! See if it comes up again.

Good luck again! You will need it! :mrgreen: Keep me updated with the progress and ask if you have the slightest amount of problem.


Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:57 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:10 am
Posts: 6
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Hi,
I've just used your settings (2054 x 1140 @ 28100 pClk) with NvTimingTool and it seems to work... need a few tries to confirm that it really works for at least an hour like you mentioned.
I will do the hole process again and try to perform those results. Thanks again, you're the one !!! :D


Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:56 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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Nice!

But you don't have to sit for an hour to confirm it. Create a jpg file in paint with resolution of 1920x2160. Fill the left half(0 to 1920)with red and right half(1920 to 2160)with green. Save and rename the file to .jps extension. Open it with the 3d vision image viewer and set the monitor to frame sequential 3d. This should give each eye a different color. Sit for 5 minutes to see if a swap occurs in that time. If a swap occurs wait for another to occur in the next five minutes(the first swap may occur at anytime). If no swap occurs or only one occurs, get a camera/phone, position it so that it can see the monitor and you don't have to hold it. Place one lens of the 3d glasses in front of the camera lens and set the camera to take sequence photos every 5 minutes for 1 hour. Remember to set the flash to off. You can then check for how many photos the color remains constant.

OR

You could just watch a movie or play a game in 3d until 2 swaps occur! :D


Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:39 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:56 am
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Hello abddbz, can you make for 720P at 110 & @120 hz ? please, thank you.


Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:04 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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Hello fiocco,

If you want to do 720p 3d @ 60hz you might want to use the hdmi port. If you just want to watch movies in 3d, you can use the hdmi directly (some software with bluray 3d support over hdmi may be needed).

As for games, the procedure is not exactly very *ahem* "honest" *ahem* :D but 3d monitor gaming support has been greatly reduced by both nvidia & amd in current times (VR is the new game...) and you might also want to consider tridef3d.

There are 2 methods for gaming in 3d:

1) You can overwrite the edid on the monitor's hdmi port. WARNING: If done carelessly it can damage your monitor. By the warning you can make it out that I am talking about hardware overwriting and not the edid driver method(edid driver 3d doesn't work for hdmi). The s23a700's edid can be overwritten using "i2ctool" and Ubuntu OS. The original EDID's monitor model bytes needs to be changed and the checksum needs to be corrected. If you want to go this way and need me to make the edid, just say it, I'll make it and post it. :mrgreen:

2) The second method is the method discussed in the original post. EDIT:See next post.
-First run your monitor at 720p 120hz 2d.
-In Step 2 set the range of pixel clocks as 12500 to 13500 with increment value of 50.
-For Step 6, set res wdth=1280, res hight=720, col depth=32, ref rate=120.
-In step 25, try 1360 728 to 2500 1500
-In step 33, use:
ColorDepth=32
Res Width= 1280
Res Height=720
Interlaced= 0
Hor Border=0
Hor FrontPorch=48
Hor SyncWidth=32
Hor TotPixels=As obtained in step 26.
Hor VisiblePix=1280
Hor SyncPol=0
Ver Border=0
Ver FrontPorch=3
Ver SyncWidth=5
Ver TotPixels=As obtained in step 26.
Ver VisiblePix=720
Ver SyncPol=1
Pixel Clock=As obtained in step 26(The 5 digit no. with no decimal point).
Prsntd RefRate=118
...

The first method is risky but better for 720p 3d because:
-It responds to 3d signals and protocols flawlessly,
-there are no edid driver interference/fps drop problems,
-and most importantly, I am very good at creating a hodge-podge instead of instructions.


Last edited by abddbz on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:08 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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The 2nd method can be done by letting the GPU output 720p and let the monitor handle the conversion to 1080p like I have given in the post above OR by letting the GPU do the conversion from 720p to 1080p and send the output as 1080p.

If you want to let the GPU do the conversion (better if you have already figured out the refresh rate setting for minimum swaps at 1080p), Just use the NvTimingTool, enter color depth=32, ResWdth=1280, ResHeight=720, Interlaced=0 and hit enter. Keep the rest of the entry same as in 1080p 3D setting, [example for 2054x1140 @ 28100pClk :Hor(Bor=0,FrntPrch=48,SyncWdth=32,TotPix=2054, VzblPxl=1920,SyncPol=0), Ver(Bor=0,FrntPrch=3,SyncWdth=5,TotPix=1140, VzblPxl=1080,SyncPol=1), PxlClk=28100, PrsntdRefRate=118].


Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:20 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 23
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fiocco wrote:
Hello abddbz, can you make for 720P at 110 & @120 hz ? please, thank you.


If you are just talking about 720p 2d, You can do it by using NVIDIA ControlPanel's Custom resolution tool...(Nvidia ContPanl> Change resolution> Customize> Create Custom Resolution> Set horPxl=1280, VerLines=720, Refresh rate=110 or 120 as needed, col depth=32 and Standard=automatic.


Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:27 am
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