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 Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really? 
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:38 am
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I just stumbled upon this page: http://www.vrealities.com/z800.html which clearly says: "Now Stereo 3D Compatible with Windows Vista and any ATI or NVIDIA Video Card!!!".
I've been out of the scene for a while, so I really need to know: how did they obtain that kind of compatibility? Did they use iz3D drivers?


Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:15 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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How much ?? i think i will just wait for these babys http://www.vuzix.com/UKSITE/iwear/produ ... 920av.html

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Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:57 am
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OllyLuck wrote:
How much ?? i think i will just wait for these babys http://www.vuzix.com/UKSITE/iwear/produ ... 920av.html

Those are just video glasses. They're not used for gaming.

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Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:04 am
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Cross Eyed!

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I hope and wish that it is true.

The eMagin webpage says this but I dont know how old this notice is



Quote:
Important Notice:
The Z800 3DVisor is designed to provide an immersive big screen experience with any 2D game or application. To view in 3D you must have a computer running Windows XP, with an NVIDIA series 6 or 7 graphics card.

The Z800 3DVisor does not currently support 3D Stereovision on Windows Vista Systems or NVIDIA series 8 or 9 graphics cards.


Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:17 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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oh, and pathetically, that one week only sale on your linked webpage is there every week so no need to rush.


Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:21 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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I got the answer. eMagin is selling a firmware chip update which makes the Z800 compatible with multiple video cards:
https://e-store.emagin.com/miva/merchan ... gory_Code=
Besides that, my hypothesis was correct: it uses the iz3D driver. This is the answer I received from VRealities:
Quote:
You may have the latest firmware chip:

If so, you will need to download Labtool and Activate 3D. Then download the new iZ3D 1.10B Beta driver.

http://3dvisor.com/support.php

http://iz3d.com/t-dcdriver.aspx

Start the iZ3D driver and under DirextX set the settings to S3D Shutter and Marked, Enable Stereo.

Then click on Help and then click the Dynamic Test. Use the Num Pad + - to adjust the stereo settings.

Any game should now be in 3D.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
OllyLuck wrote:
How much ?? i think i will just wait for these babys http://www.vuzix.com/UKSITE/iwear/produ ... 920av.html

A 30 degree field of view? They're going backwards!


Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:18 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I'm confused as to whether I need this new chip. I don't intend to use anything but Nvidea video card. I'm currently using the IZ3d demo driver with no success ( I can only get 30 fps and I apparently need 60fps to stop L/R frame reversal every 5 seconds). In reading the blurb for this Eprom, all it seems is that it adds other brands of Video cards to the capability "if they are supported by the software via the Emagin SDK kit "

Mark


Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:15 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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here is my understanding of this situation. the old z800 firmware only accepted a proprietary nvidia format called "nvidia stereo" which is similar to standard page flipping. the new firmware that you can order will allow the z800 to use any page flipping( or alternating frame as they say) source such as an ati card. to be honest i dont think nvidia supports "nvidia stereo" mode any more now that they have 3d vision. if i am mistaken chime in.

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Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:56 pm
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Certif-Eyed!

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If it's true what they say that it uses the Marked shutter mode, then that takes care of the sync issue.

Our normal shutter just goes left/right depending on game FPS, and gives no syncing signal. BUT, our Marked driver has a color bar that would tell their firmware which is left and right. So if they have added support in their firmware to read our color bar, then it should eliminate the sync issue.


Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:31 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hi,

I have got a z800 helmet and i have vista 64 bits with a nvidia graphic card (gtx 260).
Do you think that i have to buy the firmware upgrade kit? Because I installed the iz3d driver and labtool, but i can't push the 3D button (it is masked). My current firmware version is the 6.35.

Did someone have already to upgrade it? Is that simple?


Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:05 am
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fokx wrote:
Hi,

I have got a z800 helmet and i have vista 64 bits with a nvidia graphic card (gtx 260).
Do you think that i have to buy the firmware upgrade kit? Because I installed the iz3d driver and labtool, but i can't push the 3D button (it is masked). My current firmware version is the 6.35.

Did someone have already to upgrade it? Is that simple?



From their website:
Quote:
Some, but not all, Z800 3DVisors have already shipped with the latest firmware installed. Upgraded units show part numbers with a "-03" suffix on the label on the bottom of the Z800 3DVisor Controller. If your Z800 3DVisor does not show this mark we encourage you to install the new firmware.


So, if yours matches above, then you already have the new firmware apparently.


Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:28 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Welder, you are awesome for actually addressing us. I can’t remember the last time someone took the Z800 seriously even though it is the highest quality gamer HMD.

So thank you.


Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:04 pm
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Certif-Eyed!

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genetic wrote:
Welder, you are awesome for actually addressing us. I can’t remember the last time someone took the Z800 seriously even though it is the highest quality gamer HMD.

So thank you.



No problem :) I like to stay very close to the community.

I can tell you what I ate for dinner if you would like as well ;)


So, do you have the latest firmware? Have you had any luck?


Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:14 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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First, thanks for your help!

So, I have the "-03" marked bottom my z800, and the number of my firmware is 6.35.
Do you think that I have to upgrade to the 6.38 for using labtool on vista with Iz3d driver?

Also, I can't install the z800 on vista 64 bits! Does any driver exist for Vista 64 bits?
Should I go back to Vista 32 bits?

THanks again!


Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:56 am
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Certif-Eyed!

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Well they say the -03 has the latest, but if you say yours isn't, I would shoot them an email regarding that. Just let them know that you have the -03 mark, but still have a lower version then they have on their website. From a previous post it seems that they have knowledge about our driver, so if you ask about it they may be able to help you out with that.

And our driver works for 64-Bit. What issue are you having installing it?


Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:07 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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In fact, my z800 Helmet is unknown in Vista 64 bits. Even after installing IZ3d driver or z800 driver (version for xp only, but which works on vista 32 bits), I still have "EMAX" with a yellow icon in my Device Manager!
I had contact with emagin, and they talked me about a driver for nvidia (the 91.xx, a very old one...) . Here are the mail:

If your firmware is indeed 6.35 you will need the 6.38 upgrade to run the support applications on the 3DVisor site, but there will be no difference in product compatibility with Vista and NVIDIA Drivers. We have not yet tested the compatibility of the Iz3D driver with either firmware, but would not expect there to be any difference. Again, the change was made only to support the eMagin SDK.


On 2/18/09 1:37 PM, "Free" <vailldam@free.fr> wrote:
I read this there viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2129 <http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=30&amp;t=2129> :

Firmware requirements for stereovision
Stereovision, as described in this section, requires the 3DVisor headset to be turned to 3D mode programmatically. This functionality is not always available, as shown in the table below.

Product Firmware version Status
Z800 6.38 and above Available.
Z800 6.36 and 6.37 Not released.
Z800 6.35 and below Not available.
X800 All Not available

Are you sure that the 6.35 firmware (mine firmware) is really enough for playing with vista and Iz3D driver ?

Again, thanks a lot !


De : Bruce Ridley [mailto:bridley@emagincorp.com]
Envoyé : mercredi 18 février 2009 22:33
À : Free
Cc : Carol Miller
Objet : Re: About Z800 Firmware upgrade

We are recommending that you do not purchase the upgrade since the firmware in your Z800 3DVisor is probably the same as, or newer than the upgrade and not make any difference in the performance or compatibility of your Z800.


R. Bruce Ridley
Vice President
Business Dev. & Special Projects
eMagin Corporation
10500 NE 8th Street, 14th Floor
Bellevue, WA 98004
425-749-3641

On 2/18/09 1:17 PM, "Free" <vailldam@free.fr> wrote:
Thanks again,

I try to buy the kit to upgrade the firmware but i have 2 problems :
First, the redeem coupon « EMA-300042 » does not work : The coupon code you entered is invalid.
Second :
Unable to authorize payment: The transaction resulted in an AVS mismatch. The address provided does not match billing address of cardholder.

Can you help me ??

Thanks a lot.

Damien

De : Bruce Ridley [mailto:bridley@emagincorp.com]
Envoyé : mercredi 18 février 2009 21:21
À : Free; 'Techsupport'
Objet : Re: About Z800 Firmware upgrade

Dear Damien,

The software upgrade you refer to was first mad available on March 31, 2006. If your Z800 was made before that date the update will allow it to work with programs created with the eMagin SDK, otherwise compatibility is the same. There is no stererovision compatibility for Windows Vista and no headtracking compatibility for Vista 64. He programs on our website are all designed for Windows XP.

The last frame sequential 3D stereovision driver from NVIDIA was 91.31. Attached is the list of the graphic cards compatible with this driver.

Best Regards,


R. Bruce Ridley
Vice President
Business Dev. & Special Projects
eMagin Corporation
10500 NE 8th Street, 14th Floor
Bellevue, WA 98004
425-749-3641

On 2/18/09 11:54 AM, "Free" <vailldam@free.fr> wrote:
Thanks for your answer.
I have some others questions :

With Vista 32 bits and Nvidia Geforce gtx 260, which softwares I have to use ? Labtool and Iz3d driver ? What is the procedure ?
Which firmware must I have ? I’ve the 6.35, is that enough ?

And with Vista 64 bits, does any driver exist ?

Thanks again for your time

Damien


What do you think about that??


Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:11 am
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Certif-Eyed!

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Well, if the Z800 requires its own display driver besides 3D, and they don't have one for 64bit, then that is hard to fix I think.

As far as the other stuff, most of my posting was because of this:
viewtopic.php?p=19958#p19958



So, if you have the -03 and yet the wrong firmware, than I suppose that may be conflicting with their site that I quoted before. But from the table, it may seem that the upgrade me be required. Hard to say =/

That quote I made is from this page: https://e-store.emagin.com/miva/merchan ... gory_Code=

Which says -03 has new firmware, so you may want to ask him about that.


Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:03 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Yes, you will need the 6.38 upgrade for it to work and yes, it does work great! :)


Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:57 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Oh, also. Make sure you do not have the emagin drivers installed. If so uninstall them and only install Labtool. Once you do this run Labtool and choose the Miscellaneous tab and click Force 3D Mode 2D to 3D, then run the iZ3d driver, and choose S3D, Marked and check out the test screen. All should be good. Then any game will be 3D! :P


Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:35 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Wow, eMagin wants $70 to ship the firmware to my resident country. Was the firmware really so heavy? Also, was it scary to install? I read somewhere once that Z800 control box was a cumbersome mess on the inside.

Hell, I guess I will get a new faceplate thing too. The original one is cracked and has that old cell phone look. I never liked the silver anyway. Oh how I wish there were other HMD options out there with 40 FOV or higher.


Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:24 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
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Have you contacted them about that shipping charge? Its rediculous and if they dont smarten up i would be very pissed off.

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Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:10 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Well, I love eMagin to death for making the Z800 but they just don’t strike me as a very reasonable / flexible/ sane group.

Its ok, if this new firmware really is the magic key I have been waiting for (which I believe it to be) then I don’t mind paying too much.

Wow, I haven’t posted here very much since someone confirmed that the Z800 will now work with modern GPUs. Ironically, Now that I CAN upgrade my computer, it wont be convenient for me to make a new build until after summer for various reasons. But just knowing that I can upgrade has really helped me to enjoy the games that I do have. Besides, I need to finish PREY before I move onto the IZ3D drivers anyway.

I will look on the bright side and say that this whole mess saved me from spending $800 on an 8800 ultra GPU as I had intended before I found out that it wouldn’t work. GPUs sure were expensive back then.


Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:18 am
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At that resolution wouldnt the best course be to just use a 7900gtx and xp untill the z800 is worn out?

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Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:24 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Well, if my Z800 dies tomorrow I will buy a new one on the day after tomorrow.

Sad that there still isn’t anything better out there.

As for why to upgrade? I must admit that your comment took me by surprise. I understand that most of the gains in high end GPUs can be found at higher resolutions but most modern games can only be played at medium or lower settings with my 7800 GTX. Can you honestly not see an advantage in upgrading to a 285 GTX or whatever to play Fallout3 for example with the Z800 even at 800x600?

Add to that the fact that older games like Bioshock don’t work with legacy Nvidia drivers and I have about 4 games left to play in my collection that can perform well or better with my current computer.

Those 4 games should last me until summer so that works out great with my wait until summer to upgrade plan.


Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:17 am
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I recently bought a 7950gx2 for $90AU second hand and have had almost zero driver related issues. I plan to use this rig with my active projector at 1024x768 and expect few problems.
The XP driver is so far ahead of iz3d in compatibility its not funny. From my perspective its the way to go.

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Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:24 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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genetic wrote:
Wow, eMagin wants $70 to ship the firmware to my resident country. Was the firmware really so heavy? Also, was it scary to install? I read somewhere once that Z800 control box was a cumbersome mess on the inside.

Hell, I guess I will get a new faceplate thing too. The original one is cracked and has that old cell phone look. I never liked the silver anyway. Oh how I wish there were other HMD options out there with 40 FOV or higher.


I've been waiting for this moment for a long time and almost gave up hope...
And once in a while I check eMAGIN/nVIDIA/Google for any progress in 3DVISOR world..., with no luck....., until last friday!!
I couldn't believe my eyes!

Just ordered one from VRLogic in Germany (only company I could find in Europe that had it in stock).
I payed € 24,95 for the firmware + € 16,- to get it to Holland.
Much better than the $ 55,- + customs to get it from the US.

Installing the firmware is very easy, 4 screws in the bottom of the connection box and the chip was easy to access.
Tried it out right away on an older computer at work, and is does work!! The force 3D option became available under Labtool/miscellaneous and I was able to test it a bit with CoD2. It was very flickery, but since it was an older computer my guess is I need to try it at home on my c2d E8500/9800gtx/Vista box.

I haven’t had the time yet to test it at home, since it was Queensday in Holland (and some idiot ran over and killed 5 people with his car by driving through the crowd and almost hitting the royal family!!! http://www.zie.nl/videos/Ernstig-ongeluk-Koninginnedag-2009/m1ezou2fa09f)
But I will test it this weekend I hope. And I’ll let you know how it works out.


Fri May 01, 2009 2:13 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Finally got the time to test the new firmware (6.40) in my Z800 VISOR and it works much better then on the old computer at work!!
From the start it had a good and solid 3D picture.
Only problem is the switching of left and right screens when the frame rate drops beneath 60fps.
Crysis didn’t work for me (nVidia graphics card) as mentioned at the compatible gaming list. I’ve tested it with Call of Duty 4 and I must say, It looks great. I’ve forgotten how cool 3D can be. Will try out some more games this week I hope.

Here’s my setup:
- Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
- MSI P43 Neo F mainboard
- MSI N9800GTX Plus 2D512-OC
- 4Gb DDRII 800MHz (2x 2Gb)
- Windows Vista Ultimate 32bit

Installation:
o Got my monitor connected on 1st DVI connector
o Connected 3D VISOR on 2nd DVI connector with a converter
o Installed eMAGIN Labtool and checked device manager to see if the 3DVISOR was installed correctly. (I did not install any other software from eMAGIN!!)
o Installed 1Z3D Full install (to make shutter and S3DShutter available)
o Opened Labtool and forced the 3DVISOR in 3D mode (miscellaneous tab)
o Also Reset onboard EEPROM (After this Vista detected it as a second screen)
o Opened iZ3D and under DirectX enabled stereo and set the output to S3DShutter, Marked
o Minimized both Labtool and iZ3D and went to the Display properties to enable my second screen (my VISOR) at the property tab and made it the default screen just to make sure the games would start on my VISOR screen.
o And that’s it!! :woot

I hope this is helpful for some of you guys.
I would really like to thank iZ3D for the great software and the forum members of mtbs3d.com for the support. I shouldn't forget eMAGIN for the're great hardware an firmware upgrade, without them, I’d still be gaming in “primitive mode” :shock:.


Tue May 05, 2009 3:07 am
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But.... you still need to keep the frame rate very high which you cant do because pc games stutter now and then and your stereo flips. Better off with xp and a 7900 i think.

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Tue May 05, 2009 10:42 am
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Does Z800's updated firmware recognize iZ3D's marked shutter glasses option? This might overcome that synchronization limitation - not sure.

Regards,
Neil


Wed May 06, 2009 6:32 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I agree It’s annoying. It’s definitely something for iZ3D to work at… (I realy hope there's a solution)

But try playing Crysis or other modern games with these "older" graphics cards :cry:
I used a NX7950x2 card for quite a while, but Crysis for example was unplayable, and I didn’t even use the glasses. With a N9800GTX it works great and I can use the worst operating system known to mankind (Vista) :D and use DX10.
I've seen a shortcut somewere for flipping the shutters back.

So for now I'm a happy person.

For Neil:
I used the S3Dshutter marked option, should I try the iZ3D option instead?
I'll try it this evening. Thanks for the suggestion!


Wed May 06, 2009 6:52 am
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Looks like you are using the correct version already. :(

Regards,
Neil


Wed May 06, 2009 6:55 am
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Just did some experiementation. Playing crysis at 800x600 with xp driver on 7950gx2. Quality settings on mediam except shadow/shaders? that had to be on high to avoid messed up textures.

Although a bit stuttery is is playable and could use some further tweaking.

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Wed May 06, 2009 8:20 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Tested H.A.W.X. yesterday...
Not realy a big fan of these type of games, but wanted to test the headtracking function.

It was awsome! Headtracking works great! You need to keep pressing the c button to activate it, but I was lots of fun.
I could look arround from inside the cockpit and was a real ad-on for the game play.


Sat May 09, 2009 6:31 am
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Swannik wrote:
Tested H.A.W.X. yesterday...
Not realy a big fan of these type of games, but wanted to test the headtracking function.

It was awsome! Headtracking works great! You need to keep pressing the c button to activate it, but I was lots of fun.
I could look arround from inside the cockpit and was a real ad-on for the game play.
If that game supports trackir, you could try trackir emulation with Glovepie and forget about keeping a key pressed. It works with scripts. I can help you writing one and posting it here if you decide to try.
Yes, headtracking is a delight.

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Tue May 12, 2009 6:20 am
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stereomania wrote:
Yes, you will need the 6.38 upgrade for it to work and yes, it does work great! :)



Swannik wrote:
Finally got the time to test the new firmware (6.40) in my Z800 VISOR and it works much better then on the old computer at work!!
From the start it had a good and solid 3D picture.
Only problem is the switching of left and right screens when the frame rate drops beneath 60fps.



Um, Something is wrong here.

I thought The new firmware was to fix our 60fps problem. If not there is no need for it.

Also, any word on 64bit OS. Did anyone get Vist 64 to work with it?


Thu May 14, 2009 2:56 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Hello everybody

Maybe i'll be a Z800 owner soon, so im already following threads like these. :P As it seems, the "drop below 60fps" Problem is still existent... sadly...
But i saw something on the z800 website:

Quote:
Can I use two inputs into the Z800 3DVisor to create stereoscopic 3D images? eMagin Corporation's value added reseller (Virtual Realities) now offers a dual input version of the Z800.

I guess with these, there would be no more problems with sync :?: But i couldnt find any info regarding this on virtualrealities.com. Also it seems that its really a different model and not just an update as i understand it... :cry:
Does somebody know more?

One last thought: To be forced to 60fps isn't only bad thing, it also has the advantage of smooth gameplay. :lol: Only problem is the expensive hardware to achieve it (or lower graohics). :oops:


Fri May 29, 2009 6:37 am
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soundstorm wrote:
One last thought: To be forced to 60fps isn't only bad thing, it also has the advantage of smooth gameplay. :lol: Only problem is the expensive hardware to achieve it (or lower graohics). :oops:

Plus, remember it's only 800x600 and it's only one eye per frame :shutter

I have a Z800 mode in my demo game, and it forced me to be constantly mindful of the game's performance in order to keep it in 3D at default settings. So I agree, no bad thing indeed!

Actually, I did cheat a little bit: in order to get up to 60fps in the first place I had to buy a new PC to go with my Z800 :P


Fri May 29, 2009 9:57 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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Hi Phil!

You're right, I do forget this always: 800x600 will give Performance Boost over our BIG Monitors Resolution right now... 8)

I just recieved an answer to a mail from virtualrealites.com and the Dual Z800: It really exists:
http://www.vrealities.com/z800dualpro.html
But for $2195.00... :cry: But as it takes Dual Input, i guess no more problems with De-Sync.

Quote:
it's only one eye per frame

What do you mean by that?

Yea a new cpu and gpu would be necessary also for me (dualcore@3.2, 8800gts@640MB) :mrgreen:


Fri May 29, 2009 10:11 am
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Cross Eyed!
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:23 pm
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Location: Montréal, Canada
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soundstorm wrote:
Quote:
it's only one eye per frame

What do you mean by that?

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I mean that the game only has to render one view of the scene each 60th of a second. So performance should be very similar to rendering monoscopically. When you send each view to the Z800, it remains on the eye's screen until a new image for that eye is sent to replace it.


Fri May 29, 2009 12:07 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:38 am
Posts: 57
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Quote:
performance should be very similar to rendering monoscopically

That sounds cool... 8)

I just lost the auction at Ebay for a Z800. Its sold for 550GBP... :cry:
Will have to buy new, or wait for VR1440... or future HMDs.. :|


Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:56 am
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