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 s23a700d 3d vision 
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:00 am
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Edit:Post 4 has solution, tested with driver version 310.90

I have a samsung s23a700d and nvidia gtx275. The monitor gives problem with edid hacks- the eyes keep swapping pereodically. Does this happen for all s23a700d?

I found out that for default 120hz refresh rate the time between two eye swapping is always nearly 27 seconds. But changing the refresh rate or resolution of 3d vision by adding custom resolutions/refresh rates, this time changes and is always is periodic. Eye swapping varies from several times per second to once in several seconds,(about few minutes for 720p), depending on the setting. Also when frame sequential 3d is not switched on in the monitor, there is movement in the 3d image on the screen(the left and right eye image alternatively becomes bright and dim few times per second pereodically).

I had tried to edit the pixel clock in EDID Detailed Timing Descriptor by minor values but it seems that nvidia
(or windows?) does not allow such minor changes to the refresh rates and only accepts minimum 1hz refresh rate steps.(please correct me if i am wrong).

Two things I noticed:

1) The pixel clock rate in EDID states 285.50Mhz but in nvidia custom resolution it states 285.5424 for 120hz 1080p default ( I tried changing it to 285.54 in the EDID but I don't think it worked) .Also setting refresh rate to 199.999hz in Nvidia's custom resolutions displayed the pixel clock at 285.5000Mhz, but it seems it reverted to 120hz on saving. (This should probably not be the problem as EDID setting is 285.5Mhz for the rest of the displays too.)

2)When viewing the desktop at 120hz 1080p(in 2d mode) the horizontal frequency shown on the monitor's info menu is 137.3Khz, but when 3d vision is switched on(3d mode), the horizontal frequency is shown as 137.9Khz for 1080p. There is always a difference in these values depending on the resolution and refresh rate.

Thanks for reading the above problems, please provide suggestions on what might be done to fix the eye swapping problem. Also if anyone knows how to set detailed timing for 3d vision please mention.


Last edited by abddbz on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:10 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I tried using iz3d 120 hz and shutter modes. They cause eye swapping with time pereod of 22 seconds for 1080p 120hz. I have tried them with nvidia drivers, default edid and windows default nvidia drivers and default edid.


Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:22 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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If I'm not mistaken, that monitor should work with a recent AMD GPU (5000 series and up). I do recall some people hacking it to work with Nvidia, but maybe Nvidia updated their driver and it doesn't work anymore. Not really sure. But you can probably get a used AMD GPU for cheap, might be your best option.

You can also try download the DDD TriDef drivers and see if they work any better. They have a Direct3D 120Hz mode (or max refresh).

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:13 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Edit:Updated Timings.txt file with a sorted version (26/01/2013)
Edit:Updated (25/01/2013)

Thanks for your suggestion cybereality. However, I have managed to get it to work partially. With my monitor even older drivers like 285.x would not work, giving the same problem.

I did some maths and somehow managed to pinpoint my displays refresh rate to about 119.998hz.(remember the 27 seconds pereod? I realized that a software I had downloaded previously for another purpose but never used was the solution to my problem - Powerstrip - really powerful. With it I managed to enforce refresh rates and hence got more readings to apply to the maths). I also use Powerstrip to set the refresh rate for my monitor for better 3d sync(though not yet perfect).


Note: If the sa700 display runs without any problem with 285.x CRT mode or with IZ3D 120 Hz mode, reffer to the bottom of this post.

The partial SOLUTION:

Note: Step 2 has already been done in the attached inf.

Step 1: Get a built in emitter 3d vision monitor edid override inf. Inf File with S23A700 edid and Acer GN245HQ 3D Monitor'd ID is attached to this post.

Step 2:[not needed for attached inf] Change the pixel clock for 120hz 1080p in the edid dtd to some other compatible value that does not result in 120hz(eg: change it from 86,6F to 9C,6E which results in 119hz) This is necessary because if the 3d vision driver detects a 120hz mode it overrides the output to its default setting causing further incompatibilities with powerstrip.

Step 3: Install edid override inf to monitor.

Step 4: Install powerstrip (from Entech Taiwan). No need to install the non linear ramp something to the registry.
Note:Be careful with this software and don't touch anything you are not sure about. Use this software at your own risk!

Step 5: Restart (required for both the edid inf installation and powerstrip).

Step 6: Open nvidia control panel resolution setting> customize> add resolution.
Set Horizontal pixels to 1920, vertical lines to 1080, refresh rate to 120hz, color depth to 32 bpp. Click on timing's dropdown menu(automatic selected) and select "cvt reduced blank". It should set the active pixels, front porch, sync width, total pixels, polatity to 1920,48,32,2080,+ for horizontal column and 1080,3,5,1144,- for vertical column respectively. Click on test, click yes, ok. Select the 1920x1080, 120hz in the custom group in resolution box and click apply, yes.

Step 7: Goto Set up stereoscopic 3D menu, Run setup wizard. Click next,next,next. Select triangle for right eye and hexagon for left eye, click next. Select yes, select use ingame refresh rate, click test with this refresh rate, click next.(switch on the monitor if it switches off). Tick "I have read..." and select the image with a square in it, click next. Set the check boxes as desired, click finish and switch on the monitor(it will switch off after finish).

Step 8: Open nvidia control panel resolution setting> customize> add resolution. Set Horizontal pixels,Vertical lines to 1920,1080 respectively. Set the refresh rate to 118hz(something compatible with the display but different from the modified edid refresh rate). Click on the drop down list in the timing menu and set to manual. Set Active pixels, Front porch, sync width, total pixels, polarity to 1920,48,32,2076,+ respectively for "horizontal" column and 1080,3,5,1132,- respectively for "vertical column". Don't touch the refresh rate box at the bottom. Click on test and confirm add. Click OK. Use the resolution menu to set it to the new 1920x1080 118hz resolution.

Goto customize, delete the 120hz 1920x1080 custom resolution. click ok.

Note: If you see the mouse pointer on the display after a resolution change but the rest of the screen is black, press the left key on the keyboard once and press enter(this confirms the resolution). This is needed when the monitor is blank for long enough for the resolution to reset.

Step 9: Run powerstrip, click OK, Set "auto load with windows" setting as desired. click ok. Close the tips box. Click on the powerstrip icon in the notification area of taskbar, goto display profiles>configure.

Click on the advanced timing options button, set the pixel clock to 282.000 Mhz. Click on apply(If you dont, pixel clock is going to reset).
Click OK.
Make sure the lock icon above the Advanced timing options button is in the locked state.
Click on save as. Name the profile anything you like eg:"1080p 120 3D". Click OK. Click on the grey key on the left of save as, scroll through the "Functions and profile" menu and click on the profile you just created. Chose a global modifier eg: "Ctrl+Alt", Click on the hot key selection box and press a preffered key for a shortcut to this profile eg: "Num 3". Click close, ok. Now you can set the display to the created profile anytime by using the key combination eg:"ctrl+Alt+Num 3".

Step 10: Run 3d applications/games at 118hz(The refresh rate set in custom resolution).

Note:Remember to run powerstrip and set the display to the saved profile by using the shortcut key combination or through the display profile configuration window before running a 3d application.


Problems:

1.The monitor is still not in perfect sync and there is an image swap at a time pereod of about 60 minutes. Remember to realize when the swap occurs so that your eyes do not get strained.(I have attached a Timings.txt file which contains the output of a program I wrote to get combinations of the settings to get 119.99 Hz refresh rate. The order of the columns are Horizontal pixels, Vertical lines, Pixel clock and the resulting refresh rate divided by 100. Powerstrip accepts only even number of total horizontal pixels and some specific pixel clocks, hence these combinations.Try the refresh rates closer to 119.998. Also remember front porch+sync width+back porch+active pixels=total pixels. Therefore front porch+sync width+active pixels<total pixels. Also active pixels = 1920x1080)

2.Performance slows down while changing to 3d mode. It seems to be a case with the 3d vision picture viewer only.

3.Monitor shuts off after disabling 3d.


The 3d vision image viewer and 3d test worked fine. I played batman arkham city in 3d vision, it worked perfectly except for some crosstalk (probably caused because of the neon lights over a dark background).

Note:Remember to unlock the lock icon above the Advanced timing options button in powerstrip to try other resolutions and/or refresh rates. Just lock it when running 3d vision apps/games after setting a pixel clock using powerstrip.


For Monitors working properly with 285.x crt mode and IZ3D 120hz:

The readings from powerstrip for default display setting(no edid override or custom resolution) are:

Pixel Clock:285.429Mhz
_______________Horizontal____Vertical
active pixels:____1920_________1080
front porch:_____48___________3
sync width:_____32___________5
back porch:_____80___________56
total pixels:_____2080_________1144

Use these readings to calculate the refresh rate using the formula:
refresh rate=(Pixel clock in Mhz* 1000000)/(Horizontal total pixels* vertical total pixels)
Use the timings.txt file attached to this post to find a setting with a refresh rate that matches closest to the above obtained refresh rate(119.95234hz).
Now in step 8 use the currently obtained setting instead. Set the total pixels for horizontal and vertical and set the refresh rate to 118hz. Set the rest of the boxes to same values given in step 8(just make sure total pixels is greater than active pixels+sync width+front porch, If not reduce horizontal front porch to an acceptable EVEN number(try not to set too low) and the vertical front porch to any acceptable number. I'd suggest you to go with a setting that does not need you to modify the porch and sync width) . In step 9 set the pixel clock to the pixel clock you have selected in the timings.txt file instead of 282.000Mhz. Rest is the same.

Hope that helps others with the same problem. Also hope nvidia shows some mercy to this method.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Last edited by abddbz on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.



Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:13 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Cool. Thanks for posting this guide.

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:57 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Good work figuring that all out abddbz!


Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:26 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Thanks! I have updated the post as after going through some forums I found out that some people were able to run 3d vision properly with this monitor with 285.x driver's crt mode. I had also written before that, the 3d vision shortcuts did not work. After a complete reinstall of windows I found out that they did (It was probably caused because of the unmanaged tweakings). Also I noticed that the 3d wizard runs only at 120hz, I have updated the post to include this. I learned about the shortcuts in powerstrip, I have updated the post to include it as well.

I came across in a forum that someone was trying to get a 3d vision monitor run on a ati card but was greeted with a lot of crosstalk. In hope to help ati users with 3d vision monitor I have posted below the display output reading from powerstrip for default 3D vision mode(1080p 120hz) i.e. when nothing except a normal 3d vision edid override is done:

Pixel Clock:286.875Mhz
_______________Horizontal____Vertical
active pixels:____1920_________1080
front porch:_____48___________3
sync width:_____32___________5
back porch:_____80___________61
total pixels:_____2080_________1149


I also need some help from ati users to know the refresh rate at which s23a700d runs problem free 120hz 3d. So if any one would be willing to give me the powerstrip reading for 120hz 3d mode on an ati card with this monitor, i'll be very happy.

Enjoy this Ice Age creature in 3d:


Also incase you were wondering how interlaced 3d looks:


It's original version(no interlacing):


Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:55 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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It seems like a few games like modern warfare 3 start at 60hz on first run even if the desktop is set at 118hz. This causes an out of sync issue with the monitor when powerstrip is running. To fix this start the game without running powerstrip, change the ingame refresh rate to 118hz via menu, exit game, run powerstrip and enable custom refresh rate profile, restart game. Use ctrl+t(enable nvidia stereo) if game is not in 3D.

Edit: I tried black ops 2, it seems that it has a tendency to override powerstrip and return to default refresh rate. Changing the ingame resolution to something other than 1080p (eg:1680x1050) and then changing back to 1920x1080 fixes the problem. But the problem reappears after restarting the game and hence the procedure must be repeated. Anyhow, I found the gunsight implementation to be very distracting making the game almost unplayable.


Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:53 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Great !
Abddbz I was waiting a man like you for two years !! :mrgreen:

I'll try your workaround asap, but I still wonder why it doesn't work with the default parameters ??
It's the screen ? I have an Acer GN245HQ
Or the graphic card ? GT620M ?

What a pity to have to modify the conf files to make it work... Whatever, thanks for the work !


Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:45 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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docmorphe sorry for the late reply!(no one posted so i stopped looking for updates to this post...) Please let me know if the solution worked for you. If not please still inform me, i'll try to do something about it.


Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:51 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hello abddbz,

I followed your steps to the "T", When I got to the "advanced timing options button" it was greyed out and I could not set the pixel clock to 282.000. Is there any other tool out there that can modify and keep the settings with Nvidia cards? I heard the "Custom Resolution Utility" could do it with Toasty's Pixel Clock Patcher. Does anyone know if that will work (I'm currently at work and can't try it)?

Specs:

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
SA23700D Monitor
Razor Mamba 2012
Razor Tiamat 7.1
Asus Rampage iv extreme
Intel i7 3960x Extreme (OC 4.7Ghz)
Dominator GT 16 GB DDR3 Quad Channel 2133MHz
4 180GB SSD Corsair Force GS (0 RAID)
2 Nvidia GTX 690's Quad SLI
Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus 7.1
Water cooled (GPU's, CPU, RAM, and Motherboard)


Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:45 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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hello iraaltizer, Toasty's Pixel Clock Patcher for nvidia seems to be made to allow higher pixel clocks and is not meant for setting pixel clocks. Perhaps your card is not yet supported by powerstrip or maybe sli is the culprit. Maybe someone at http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/ will be able to help you with your problem.


Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:29 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Howdy fellas. I too have a GTX card (Nvidia Geforce GTX 670) and the "advanced timing options button" is greyed out for me as well :( was an exciting prospect to have this 1,000$+ worth of hardware actually work lol... :/


Sat May 04, 2013 6:16 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Turns out NVIDIA imposed an artificial clock limit on all new driver series (310 and up I think?) :| that's why we can't change it... alot of people are upset about it


Sat May 04, 2013 6:21 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Well I rolled way way back and still no luck, guess it's the hardware. Even though I've spent 1 1/2 months wages on this crap I guess I have to go shell out another 500 for a new monitor (again) thanks NVIDIA!


Sat May 04, 2013 8:08 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I AM NOT SURE but maybe on the hardware side something like the:

"Bizlink Display Port to Dual Link DVI-D Converter"
http://store.nvidia.com/DRHM/store?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=nvidia&Locale=en_US&Env=BASE&productID=227587600

or

"Club 3D DisplayPort to Active DVI Dual Link 330MHz Stereo 3D Gaming cable"
http://www.club-3d.com/index.php/products/reader.en/product/displayport-to-active-dvi-dual-link-330mhz-stereo-3d-gaming-cable.html

may solve the sync problem without having to buy a new monitor. These accept displayport as input and have dvi dual link as output. The club 3d version says it supports both amd hd3d as well as nvidia 3d vision which makes me wonder if it can accept 3d input from nvidia and provide output to the samsung in hd3d format. The displayport's method of 3d synchronization is different from that of dvi which gives me the idea that there is some form of sync signal conversion. The s23a750d which has 3dvision through displayport seems to show no sync problems. If I am lucky these devices will not only solve the sync problem but also the 3d vision certification on hardware side(3d vision compatible converter). If I am little less lucky the sync problem may be solved still needing edid override for the drivers to hack 3d vision compatibility. But I may also be totally unlucky in this case...

Hence incase someone has access to test or try these converters without buying or if someone already has it, I would like him/her to try 3d vision with s23a700d through this converter.

Thanks.


Thu May 09, 2013 11:47 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I smell NVIDIA 'incompatibility':

"Not recommended for Blu-ray 3D applications or other 3D applications requiring HDCP (High Definition Content Protection) support."


Sat May 11, 2013 11:51 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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But nVidia itself recommends the adapters for 3d vision surround. http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/how-to-correctly-configure-geforce-gtx-680-surround#1. The question is will the output be AMD 3D Monitor compatible when input is 3d Vision...


Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:17 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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hi,
i'm sorry to revive an old topic but i've been searching a solution to this for so long now ...
i've exactly the same samsung screen with nvidia 660ti, running windows7 64.
unfortunatly powerstrip doesn't seem to work on nvidia so i've tried other way changing the pixel clock with this:
http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-NVIDIA-Pixel-Clock-Patcher
http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU
and (maybe) this:
http://3dvision-blog.com/8753-more-about-display-overclocking-with-nvidias-gtx-titan-gpu/
it seems that EVGA's tool will work on other nvidia cards, i've tried 282 Mhz pixel clock (step 9) but without succes...
my nvidia drivers are 320.49.
if someone could help please ... i'm still testing
thanks


Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:54 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hello redapoil! Welcome to this post of unending trouble...
I have checked out the EVGA's tool. Unfortunately it seems to allow only unit refresh rate steps. This method of synchronizing the display is very sensitive and I'd prefer at least 0.001hz refresh rate steps. Until powerstrip or any other software allows this it seems that my method won't work for gtx600 or newer series.... As for the proper refresh rate with minimum eye switching, initially I assumed that it is same for all s23a700d monitors, which may or may not be the case. For the latter I'd recommend doing some maths to figure out the proper refresh rate for your monitor. First find out the time period at which an eye swap occurs(remember to count between two swaps as the first swap may occur at any time, my monitor swaps at ~27 seconds at default) and calculate the approx refresh rate difference between the monitor and gpu. Apply that to the settings(to get a bigger time period of swapping) and repeat the procedure to get better approximations until the period becomes about an hour or until you are satisfied....

The above method is buggy because of hourly eye swapping and incompatibilities with certain games, which is why I am looking for a cheap hardware solution... something like in my previous post. If it works it will work perfectly and will also work with gtx600 series as they have inbuilt displayports. Just waiting for someone to try it(though it might take forever :shock: considering the probabilities of a person having the s23a700d, a nvidia GPU, and an active 3d displayport to dvd dual adapter together and the probability of him visiting this post... :D


Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:35 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Hi, thanks for the answer...
Do you think upgrading to winfows 8 would help the "eye swapping" issue?


Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:24 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Nope... I am currently using 8 and if anything you'll have to go through additional procedures to install the edid override. I guess you'll have to satisfy yourself with tridef for the while...


Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:27 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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.
New Method: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18812
.
.


Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:09 pm
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