iZ3d vs Zalman

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zoomin
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iZ3d vs Zalman

Post by zoomin »

Hi,

I am currently deciding whether to go with the iZ3d, Zalman 22" monitors or a Samsung 226BW but I cant come to a decision.
I'm fairly new to stereo 3D although I did have a pair of E-Dimensional shutter glasses a while back but of course was shunned with the release of vista and the 8xxx series.
What I know so far is that as of now both the iZ3d and nvidia drivers will support my 32bit vista and 8800gtx although Im sceptical about the continued support for nvidia's. iZ3d seems to be trying much harder to provide excellent support but I hear that the monitors 3d picture quality is not quite as good(a bit of ghosting and tinting). It also doesnt help that i havent actually been able to find a review of the zalman monitor anywhere to compare it to the iz3d one. The monitor I am currently using is an A7217A 24" CRT which has been fairly clear in picture quality and colours but im willing to sacrifice most of that.

Over all im concerned about
  • Future Driver support (Im hoping now that nvidia is getting money from zalman they wont ditch us quite as fast)
    Game support (Is it true that crysis wont be supported just yet with my card and the iZ3d?)
    Overall 3d quality
    Overall 2d quality (I know the other two wont compare to the samsung but as long as they're not drastically worse i dont mind)
    Price (Not so much the samsung as the the other two.. its just that i can get a Zalman locally for AU$780 but havent found the iZ3d and i hear shipping is really expensive to western australia)
    Also if I do decide to get the samsung is their any chance of a future solution they will go back to the shutter glasses (say.. would the paid driver from iZ3D work with LCD screens?)
    Oh and just a matter of interest.. will the much more stylish iZ3d glasses work with zalmans monitor if i decide to order a pair :D (they use similar polarization techniques right?)
Sorry if im too specific i just havent really been able to get a clear comparison of these two monitors[/list]

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Post by sharky »

hi!

welcome to the board.. :)

i try to answer you rquestions.. keep in mind that his is my personal opinion.. :)

------------------------------
Future Driver support (Im hoping now that nvidia is getting money from zalman they wont ditch us quite as fast)

nvidia: unknown.. no idea, iz3d guaranteed

------------------------------------------
Game support (Is it true that crysis wont be supported just yet with my card and the iZ3d?)

yes and no. crysis uses a special new shadow system so yu have to turn shadows off. but maybe with the upcoming driver vrsion it will work.. :) actually teh game works but with low FPS...

-------------------------------------------
Overall 3d quality

didnt try a zalman so i speak for iz3d. the 3D effect itself is really great, thats because of teh amazing drivers. thinting and crosstalk is a problem. but as announced by iz3d there are new glasses in the works which should solve a big part of this issues. at the moment tilting the monitor back cuts down the ghosting/crosstalk by the half. i ahve seen som epictures taken with polarizers of a zalman. the ghosting is more or less 5/10 % less. but you have teh horizontal lines from the interlacing method. zalman has a halfed vertical resolution.


--------------------------------------------
Overall 2d quality (I know the other two wont compare to the samsung but as long as they're not drastically worse i dont mind)

i did not see teh zalman, so no idea, but the iz3d is like a common 22" desktop lcd.

--------------------------------------------
Price (Not so much the samsung as the the other two.. its just that i can get a Zalman locally for AU$780 but havent found the iZ3d and i hear shipping is really expensive to western australia)

i have no idea on how much AU$ is, but the cost of iz3d has dropped recently. you could try to contact tehm and ask if they support also otehr shipment methods maybe less expensive. no idea.. just ask.. :)

--------------------------------------------
Also if I do decide to get the samsung is their any chance of a future solution they will go back to the shutter glasses (say.. would the paid driver from iZ3D work with LCD screens?)

no idea.. you can ask this to vadim asadov in the "special questions" section.

--------------------------------------------
Oh and just a matter of interest.. will the much more stylish iZ3d glasses work with zalmans monitor if i decide to order a pair (they use similar polarization techniques right?)

i have no idea so i guess on this: if you take themepark glasses and use them with iz3d, you have a bad result. it works the other way around the same.. iz3d glasses in themepark is bad. since zalman uses a polarizing foil, i THINK that the glasses tehy use are miore similar to those of theme parks.




bye

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Post by zoomin »

Thanks Igor

I heard from one source that the iZ3d monitor looked grainy in 2d mode so thankyou for clearing that up.
Supportwise im confident about iz3d now after reading some of their forum aswell.

Although im still wondering if anyone else that has a zalman could compare there experience to Igor's?

*Quick edit... I just finished getting to the shipping charges in iZ3ds checkout. It comes to about half the price of the monitor itself. so does anyone know alternatives to buying direct from them or should i just try to find a place to ship to in the US to have it shipped cheaply to australia.

Thanks for your help

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Post by chrisdfw »

zoomin wrote:Thanks Igor

I heard from one source that the iZ3d monitor looked grainy in 2d mode so thankyou for clearing that up.
Supportwise im confident about iz3d now after reading some of their forum aswell.

Although im still wondering if anyone else that has a zalman could compare there experience to Igor's?

*Quick edit... I just finished getting to the shipping charges in iZ3ds checkout. It comes to about half the price of the monitor itself. so does anyone know alternatives to buying direct from them or should i just try to find a place to ship to in the US to have it shipped cheaply to australia.

Thanks for your help
It looks like there is one on Ebay that ships International for $212 US:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-iZ3D-H220Z1-Bla ... dZViewItem

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Post by Welder »

To clarify whether or not the iZ3D Glasses will work with Zalman:
No, they will not. We use Linear Polarization, and Zalman uses Circular, so the lenses are completely different.

And keep note:
The ones on Ebay is $800 + $200 shipping, so a total of about $1,000. Which is a lot more than our retail price of $699, so keep note of that.

Also, I would suggest asking for a serial number as well before making such a purchase, just in-case it may be a scam of some kind, considering it is advertised as BRAND NEW. If you do get a serial, let us know and we can tell you if it is legitimate.

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Post by zoomin »

Thanks chris and welder for those. I might just use the official website if the price comes out that close anyway though. Also thanks for clearing up the glasses thing.

If it is interesting to anyone I sent this message to nvidia:
Hi,
I was just wondering, given the somewhat dissapointing support of your last stereo 3d driver solution, how long can I expect the new zalman 3d monitors to be supported with drivers for?
At the moment I have an 8800gtx with Windows Vista 32bit and I see good support for current and possibly future games, but if I decide to upgrade after the 9xxx series. In the future does the Nvidia driver team have plans to extend their driver support? what about future versions of directx or windows also?
and got the following reply:
Hi Matt,

Thank you for the update.

Yes, we will release new drivers for GeForce 9 series of graphics card. Currently we have the driver version 174.53 and 174.74.
Yes, we will continue to support the zalman monitor in the future also.
Please get in touch with us, if you need further assistance.

Best regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care
A bit vague and I take it with a grain of salt but anyway... after reading some posts by oruq (who has both monitors apparently) He says the tinting issues and ghosting really start to get in the way eventually with his iZ3d(but I suppose he had the zalman to compare it to and i wont) but the zalmans problems were its interlacing which made 2d stuff look crappy in 3d. Im thinking of leaning towards the zalman for ease of purchase and cost but would someone mind pointing me in the direction of these screenshots taken through the glasses so i can see the effects of tinting or interlacing maybe?

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Post by Freke1 »

http://mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t ... c&start=15

Nobody with a Zalman has posted though. Only CRT+shutter, iZ3D and polarized dual projector setup.

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Post by wuhlei »

I would pick IZ3D because it supports more video cards you could take it to a friends house and watch movies right?
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Post by sharky »

as far as i know oruq has only the zalman monitor.. but i cant bet on that..

regarding the shipment costs, have oyu tried to contact iz3d? IF you have no hurry in getting it maybe tehy can ship it with ups but a 2 weeks delivery.. that costs much less. but again i cant guarantee anythign you better contact hem and ask.personally i have never tested iz3d, so my concerns are not about the hardware, but the software is at least sas important as teh hardware and there seem to be many slowdowns on that. so personall yi would go for the iz3d solution.

see you

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Post by apogrif »

hi,
i coming a bit latter the other members but i have a zalman zm-m220w.
i buy it @ 590€ and i also buy a new GC a 8800GTS512 to be able run games with a high def 1680*1050.
to make it work i also buy a new hard Drive to make dual boot wioth vista without upgrade my XP conf.
i choose Zalman for three main reasons:
- the one first is that i can found zalman siolution in my country and price in euros not in pounds

- the seconds one is that i had waited two beta driver release before i decide to buy it. a lot of people expeted new driver and when it came out i have read good opinions on it.

- the third one is that i have read everywhere that samsung (who sold s3D tv) was in contact woth nvidia to have good driver to support their solution.

in fact the bad thing are:

- Nvidia card only
- 8xxx Vista ONLY
- 6/7xxxx only XP with old drivers
- not really sure about the maintain of the driver (but i have great hopes), nvidia never talk to the community.
- around 37 % lost of perf in S3D mode compared to normal mode.
- No SLI/Crossfire (i never love this solution)
- i believe at this time there is no X2 card supported buy the driver please someone could confirm that point (but once again a think that is not necessary a good solution for gamers)

the good thing :

- work well with a lot of game
- easy to set up
- work in openGL (quake series)
- easy to found
- the price
- zalman and nvidia are big names

i can't talk about future but i really hope that nvidia and zalman will con tinue to support their solution.
in fact ZAlman had alerady announce a 32 inch screen that make me think their will be a support in futur.

there is no perfect solution and it s really to choose the "good" one.
but one thing is sure S3D in going to enter into our house soon.

Apogrif

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Post by zoomin »

Ok well thanks again guys... I seem to be leaning towards the zalman because in the thread Freke1 was nice enough to start it seems that the ghosting issues may be a bit of a problem. (although i realize much less than is visible through a camera, but still looks worse than crt + shutterglasses which will probably be what I plan to fall back to if the iz3d driver supports it) In the end I'll see if I can get a demo at my local store if they get some in but im taking a risk which I suppose it what new technology (or recently unabandoned) is all about.

Also forunately enough all my friends are running 8xxx serias cards aswell and vista so that shouldnt be a problem but thanks for that suggestion.

So just one more question.. if the iz3d drivers become pay to use and they release an interlaced 3d option is there a chance that they could support zalmans screen with their own drivers. just as a fail safe I guess..

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Post by LukePC1 »

I found some pics of a Zalman and a IZ3D a long time ago. I'm not completly shure if the effect is allwas as bad as on my pics - after a little adjusting I mean ;-)

They were from stereoforum.de, which is currently down :-(

I had to resize them, because the were too big. This made some trouble with the interlacing pic from the zalman - the bad image Quality vanished first, but with half the width it's ok, because the program calculates the wrong and the right rows together...

IZ3d
Image

Iz3d with old nvidia driver (neurok optics with gf 7 and lower)
Image

Zalman - unfortunatly so bad quality, that the 'wrong' lines are interpolated and not visible anymore ;-(
Image

Her can you see the stripes of interlacing... puh finally
Don't ask me, why the pic is upside down. I have no clue :-(
Image

edit for X-th time:
Can someone confirm or deny the effects shown on the Images? What's the effect when gaming or after adjusting?

The creator of the pics (wbloos) liked the Zalman better, because he worked with photos.
In the moment the iZ3D driver supports postprocessing and if you buy the zalman and iz3d makes a driver for it, it won't be cheap I expeckt...
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Post by sharky »

i dont think that iz3d is going to make a driver for zalman.. thats like hanging themselves.

luke regarding the interlacing problem, you cant see it on these pics.. what you can do is upload teh fullsize pic in the gallery, and post here the link to the fullsize image without actually posting the whole image. that should do...
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Post by LukePC1 »

argh... maybe you are right, but I'm able to see the 'rows' on the 'white' area, of the last picture...

here is the full link to the
Zalman Picture

PS: The quality/size of the picture is important, so make shure, you see the big one in full resolution. Mozilla shows it in the size of the screen first, but it's actually much bigger :wink:
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Post by MrHugoHugo »

I stumble over those pictures myself a few month back when I was looking for info abut iz3d vs. zalmann and I made two side-by-side stereos to be able to compare them better to each other. I uploaded them to my webspace 'cause I still did not figure out how to use the gallery (and I am not sure about the url-tags either ;)):

http://www.dalezios.de/pics/car_iz3d.jpg and
http://www.dalezios.de/pics/car_zalman.jpg (they are pretty large but if some wants (and knows how) he could put them to the others in the gallery)

I own neither the iz3d or zalman model since I am using a front surface mirror s3d rig (a bit like planar mirror setups) and I am so going to get the new iz3d driver thats for sure. Just wanted to say this because on this pictures it looks like zalman has the edge (at least as long as you are not zooming in and save them to your harddrive to be dislpayed by windows picture viewer or similar because in firefox both really look horrific).

Cheers Ant

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Post by LukePC1 »

That's why I ask people who own at least one solution to compare their results to the pics. I've heard, that the tinting of the IZ3D can be reduced, but the Zalman has only half resolution, which can't be changed!

Additionally I think it might be an old (17") iC3D (IZ3d)...

I'm not shure, wich image is better... I think a screen with checkerboard pattern would be best... and a decent resolution.

Common guys comment on the pics! Does the zalman realy ghost that much?
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Post by Likay »

It's way smarter to have a checkerboard pattern in the polarizing layer rather than lines. Then the eyes wont see the lines and the image get's way better. Even though you can't escape the fact that the real resolution is cut in half.

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Post by sharky »

in case you are interested in this information:

i contacted iz3d, and they said that they support various shimpent options which are also cheaper and arrive in 10/15 days instead of 2. i think 2 weeks are worth the monitor.. the choice is up to you.. :)

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Post by zoomin »

Wow hugo.. firefox completely destroys those pictures... anyway thanks for posting those... I still really dislike the tinting on the iz3d but the zalman interlacing is worse than I thought.
Also thanks sharky for asking iz3d about longer shipping because Im reallly releived it wont cost so much...

I will definately test the zalman monitor in person before I consider buy it now, just to check how distracting those interlacing lines really are... otherwise I may end up going Iz3d

Im guessing theres not any colour correction options in the Iz3d drivers already for the individual screens or people would be using them.. would such a feature be able to balance out the tinting?.. and the ghosting differences between those latest pictures is almost negligible... so sharky or anyone else with the Iz3d.. when you say crosstalk is a problem do you actually find it distracting you from the 3d at all?

Thanks again guys for all your help

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iZ3D, supporting the 13 little people....

Post by Mong »

What resolutions can be accessed with the Zalman Monitor to play S-3D? 1680x.....

Don't forget iZ3D Drivers are more intune with alot of videocards and other hardware...plus future improvements with the new 3D glasses (less ghosting) the coming release with the 1.08 Drivers; ummm I think I might go CrossfireX in Direct X10 (later on 08).


30/40 Matchpoint iZ3D! :wink:

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Re: iZ3D, supporting the 13 little people....

Post by LukePC1 »

Mong wrote:What resolutions can be accessed with the Zalman Monitor to play S-3D? 1680x.....
Usually it's the same resolution. But interlace halfs the resolution.
So 1680X1050 gets 1680x525... thats realy WIDE screen *g*
however I'm running an old CRT, which has about 1152x864 right now. I think the resolutions could be nearly the same...

I hope you can find one of the monitors in a store - afaik they don't have such devices in stores in Europe :-(
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Post by stee1hed »

I have an iZ3D 22" monitor. I probably used it for a total of 3 hours about 2 months ago, most of the time adjusting this and that. The ghosting issue may be acceptable for some, but it is not for me. I eagerly await the release of the new glasses. Also, being that I have an ATI card, iZ3D is my only choice for this type of tech.

Half resolution or not, it's the experience that really counts. Look at the Wii blowing away the xbox 360 and ps 3 in sales even though it pales in comparison technically. It's a little cheaper than an xbox 360 and it's fun to play. I don't have one but I've heard and read this from many.

What I've read about the Zalman is there is no ghosting or ghosting that is hardly visible. The other benefit is that it takes one video input and not two, meaning that performance is not hindered as much. Both giving the user a better overall experience in my opinion. On a still picture of the monitor the lines are visible but through normal use I have read they are not visible. The only significant negative in my opinion is you are currently locked into nVidia with a Zalman.

This is my current opinion and hopefully it changes to the iZ3D side with the release of the better glasses. I really want it to since I have one!

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my 2 cents

Post by darkerx »

I also have a 22" iz3d monitor (xp+e6850+8800gtx): and living in europe means 1500usd (cost+freight+taxes)

-the drivers are great, plenty of recent games are working well, you don't have to waste your time tweaking. Most usual issues have been adressed by the devs.: crosshairs, displaying text in games (WoW), and some games are just a new era for personal computing (gtr2/gtlegends/race07/TDU with iz3d+trackir+g25 are just...real...). I play on it at: UT3, WoW, MoHA, cod2, cod4(punkbuster is a pain in the ass in multiplayer for this one...), Bioshock, Flatout2, fear, Oblivion,

-the ghosting is sometimes anoying, in some games, which is a pity, but it is getting better with every update of the drivers... evem if I think that it will allways be the drawback of this monitor... so it's sometimes very very frustrating to feel almost the perfection, and see some ghosts that are bringing you back "out" of the game...

Anyway, I promise that, at 599usd, if you need a new monitor and you are a gamer, you have to buy an iz3d... there is no other reliable (and with a real support) solution for s3d gaming so far. At this kind of price, the ghosting is the minor (and only) issue of this device (and strangely barely visible in CoD4...). Nvidia offered almost no support for s3d for too long (I have a 8800...) to remain reliable in my eyes... so I won't buy a device which will rely on their mood...

(PS: I have had a cybermaxx helmet... there was no ghosting at all... but no game will run on it nowadays...)

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Post by Znith »

I really enjoy my iZ3D monitor. Going from shutters to this monitor is like night and day. The picture quality is so much better, even with the ghosting. When I fired up Stalker, Assassin's Creed, COD2 and Oblivion I knew I made the right decision. I didn't spend a lot of time tweaking. Once I figured out some settings and got a lil help from Neil I finally found the sweet spot and use that as a starting base for all my games now.

The iZ3D team support is quite superb, they are always around answering questions. I don't see Nvidia on this forum or even their own forums helping people with their drivers or monitors. Seeing Nvidia ignore their customers just didn't sit well with me, even though I own several of their video cards.

I find it very difficult to not play in S3D :) With the price drop I can't see why anyone who really enjoys S3D wouldn't give it a shot.

Edit: BTW making a decision to buy this monitor was not easy. I tossed it around for a good six months before I took the plunge. What slowed the process was not being able to actually see the monitor in action. I think iZ3D should allow certain electronics retailers to demo the monitor for the public.
IZ3D~ My answer to S3D!

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Post by cybereality »

So does no one have the Zalman or what? I'm looking to get one of these and I'm rather curious which is better (leaning toward Zalman).

I'll probably get the Zalman so I can try the new Nvidia drivers, cause I just got a new rig with Vista 32-bit.

Maybe you can just order both and return one of them before 30 days!

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Post by Okta »

Does the nvidia driver support post processing yet? If not then the choice is easy given there track record. Iz3d.

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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Post by cybereality »

Okta wrote:Does the nvidia driver support post processing yet? If not then the choice is easy given there track record. Iz3d.
I haven't tried the new nvidia drivers yet, but the Vuzix stereo driver (for the VR920) does work with post-processing. Its pretty hard to believe that a company like nvidia (that made the driver) can't get it to work when some random company like Vuzix managed to do it (albeit only around 30-40 games are supported ATM).

bartlomiej
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Re: iZ3d vs Zalman

Post by bartlomiej »

Hi,

(sorry for posting in an old thread)

I bought a Zalman Trimon 22'' Display and I've got very different feelings about it. The 3d effect is great but the lines from the intelacing method annoy me a lot. As far as I understood other posts the IZ3D doesn't have this problems. So I could have nearly the same great 3d effect and picture quality without this annoying lines? The Zalman is imho a great 2D Monitor, how about the IZ3D?

Thanks for answers

Arturo
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Re: iZ3d vs Zalman

Post by Arturo »

iZ3d sucks... I have it and it has A LOOOOOOT of ghosting. I'ts been a waste of money... I don't recommend it to anybody.

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yuriythebest
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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor
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Re: iZ3d vs Zalman

Post by yuriythebest »

Arturo wrote:iZ3d sucks... I have it and it has A LOOOOOOT of ghosting. I'ts been a waste of money... I don't recommend it to anybody.
it all depends on the settings. if you set it to low separation+high convergence the ghosting will be reduced.
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crim3
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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D Projector Setup
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Re: iZ3d vs Zalman

Post by crim3 »

yuriythebest wrote:it all depends on the settings. if you set it to low separation+high convergence the ghosting will be reduced.
As it does the stereo.
Zalman Trimon ZM-M220W / Acer H5360 with Another Eye2000 shutters / nVIDIA GTX760

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Likay
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Re: iZ3d vs Zalman

Post by Likay »

The iz3d does ghosts a bit and compared to some other solutions it ghosts pretty much. However the ghosting is of a different kind than standard "high contrasts"-ghosting and gives more ghosting in general with the skybox and brighter areas. Not really a rule either though. Have you tried tilting the monitor slightly backwards since this seems to be the most efficient way to reduce ghosting for me. Having brightness at 40% also works good and since the iz3d is pretty bright it's actually as bright as a standard lcd on this level.
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OuHiroshi
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Re: iZ3d vs Zalman

Post by OuHiroshi »

I think IZ3D is still a good budget monitor consider how it's half the price of a 21.5" Zalman ($250 vs $450). Zalman's good but is it worth the extra $200 for it?

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