Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

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kriss332
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Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by kriss332 »

Hi 2 all,
I hav a good gaming setup, supports SLI/CROSSFIRE. Gpu- GTX 460. I thought of lowering the 3D cost, so need help in finding a conclusion. Source - http://www.pymol.sourceforge.net/stereo3d.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . I hav found a HP- P1130 (CRT),refresh rate- 120 Hz. 21" monitor in a store. Sorry for the noob qstns. My qstn is, what r the methods for getting 3D gaming on this monitor, is costly Nvidia only option? U guys mite b using Nvidia kit & some wud hav researched alot. Just get me a helping hand. Thanks

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cybereality
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by cybereality »

I thought Nvidia was supporting CRT monitors (well they were) but CRT support is suspiciously absent from their compatibility page, and I have seen reports on their forums that the new drivers do not recognize CRT monitors (likely blocked by Nvidia because people were using this option to run "unsupported" devices like 120Hz DLP projectors). So I don't want to give you the wrong impression, but it is not clear if it will work or if it won't (or if there is an older driver or some work-around to get it to work). The old Nvidia XP drivers will work for sure, but then you would need a series 7 GeForce card, which ain't gonna do much for you with modern games. A better option would be to look at the iz3D or DDD TriDef drivers. They should be able to run in page-flipped mode if you have the right glasses/dongle. Your best bet is the e-dimensional glasses, so you can use the e-d activator to keep sync. I haven't used a CRT in a while, but I believe they still work. Worst case scenario, you will have to use the interlaced driver mode and use the "line-blanking" feature on the 3D dongle (I know the another-eye 2000 had this and I believe also on the e-d package). This will result in a loss of resolution and brightness, but you will have a perfect sync. Also, that link you posted states the settings required for optimum stereo image quality. I know I ran shutter glasses on a 85Hz CRT for years and it looked great. Of course 120Hz is better, but it will still work at lower refresh rates.

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Fredz
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by Fredz »

The best solution would be to buy the 3D Vision kit, you should find it for $115-$130 on several web sites.

You can also try the iZ3D or TriDef drivers ($40-$50) with a pair of shutter glasses like the eDimensional or Elsa Revelaor but the total price will be similar to the 3D Vision kit and the quality will not be as good. These drivers won't handle page flipping correctly if the FPS is not at least half the refresh rate (60FPS for 120Hz) and the NVIDIA glasses are better than these older models (bigger viewing angle, better transparency and color fidelity).

The HP 1130 should work with all these solutions, but you'll have to create custom resolutions and you'll probably need to remove the #12 pin of the VGA cable to be able to set these resolutions in Windows Vista or 7. See here for more information about how to do that : http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=154175" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You should be able to play games in 1280x1024@119Hz or 1600x1200@100Hz with this monitor. Even if the screen size (21") is lower than the more recent 3D 120Hz LCD display (23"-24") you'll have a better experience with the CRT monitort (less ghosting, not input lag).

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Fredz
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by Fredz »

cybereality wrote:I thought Nvidia was supporting CRT monitors (well they were) but CRT support is suspiciously absent from their compatibility page
Yes, it's quite unfortunate that they don't mention the compatibility with CRT monitors on their 3D Vision page, but apart from a driver bug preventing this in their CD driver v1.16 through v1.18, CRT monitors have always been compatible with 3D Vision.

See this : http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=156751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

5. The last two driver releases (1.16 CD beta and 1.17 CD) contain a bug which prevents users with generic CRTs, generic DLP TVs (like Samsungs), and at least some DLP projectors from successfully completing the 3D Vision Setup Wizard. Our displays aren't recognized as 3D Ready (despite the fact that they worked fine with all drivers up to 1.15 CD) and so we're only able to select 3D Vision Discover mode (i.e. anaglyph).

This problem should be fixed with our latest CD v1.19 on NVIDIA.com. If users are still having problems, please let me know.
cybereality wrote:and I have seen reports on their forums that the new drivers do not recognize CRT monitors (likely blocked by Nvidia because people were using this option to run "unsupported" devices like 120Hz DLP projectors).
That was only related to the bug I mentionned, it was not blocked at all by NVIDIA, it was just an error on their part in their display detection code that also affected some DLP projectors.

See this : http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_3D ... _1.19.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GEFORCE 3D VISION CD V1.19

New Features

Fixed a bug that prevented CRT users from using 3D Vision. The Setup Wizard should now properly detect CRTs if it properly reports its timing to the operating system


You can find numerous place with recent reports of compatibility with CRT monitors :
- http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?show ... try1155640" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?show ... try1148336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- http://www.arcsoft.com/forum/forum_post ... rt-monitor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopi ... 671&p=2462" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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tritosine5G
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by tritosine5G »

-getting a huge CRT too. In theory , a sync box would be useful to set custom timing, maybe you can cut down some of the phosphor afterglow (ghosting). I'll ask Petrus if I see him on MSN whether he played with CRT.
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!

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cybereality
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by cybereality »

Fredz wrote:Yes, it's quite unfortunate that they don't mention the compatibility with CRT monitors on their 3D Vision page, but apart from a driver bug preventing this in their CD driver v1.16 through v1.18, CRT monitors have always been compatible with 3D Vision.
Well that must have been what I had read about. I did a quick search for "crt" on Nvidia's forum and there was a mix of good and bad (mostly bad) so I assumed it had not been fixed. Not so sure this was just a "bug", knowing Nvidia's tactics. Like on the most recent 3d drivers the Nvidia Photo Viewer no longer works with the Zalman (all I get is a SBS image). The TriDef drivers have an issue now too after installing the latest Nvidia drivers. When I launch a game with TriDef, somehow the Nvidia drivers re-enable themselves. This results in a double-injection, so I get a horrible mess on screen. I suppose this is another one of Nvidia's hidden "features".. err... I mean... bugs. Not sure if Nvidia is going out of their way to screw "legacy" customers, but they certainly aren't bending over backwards to meet our needs. They just try to make things as frustrating as possible so you just finally give up and buy the Nvidia 3D Vision package deal.

kriss332
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by kriss332 »

Thank u so much 2 all of u guys, bng so much informative. U know, this is the way world shud run, & alot of things get disturbed & go to mess when some of the stronger elements try to eliminate the existence of others that r not so dominant. Take intel for example- i read in a discussion, intel payed fine of some billions to Amd for trying out monopoly in the market. Ya, Nvidia 3d is a good choice but again trying 2 kill others to follow DARWIN's theory. World knows that people r out theh who still use nice CRT's for gaming. But drop Nvidia coz of the hidden cost, which adds up in the form of getting forced 2 purchase 3D ready monitor. Had she kept the CRT corner supported, Nvidia cud hav sold out multiple more lots. Well thanks alot 2 u pple. 1st i'll try 2 search that 120$ costing Nvidia kits & let u guys know d result. Thank u

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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by tritosine5G »

im pretty sure a large part (if not the larger part ) of professionals , universities still use CRT-s to these days. Don't forget a better CRT beats LCD monitors in image quality very very bad and it has better blacks than plasma. :P
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!

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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by tritosine5G »

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=188126" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 831#p53831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

going to post here & there from now on, about CRT stuff....!
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!

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cybereality
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by cybereality »

Yeah, CRTs might be slightly better quality than LCD but who wants a big honkin' CRT on their desk these days?

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tritosine5G
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by tritosine5G »

I got a 24" 16:10 CRT for free. I'll also use it as reference to calibrate my DLP .

and its not "slightly" better ! :D
CRT is the king of displays.
http://www.displaymate.com/ShootOut_Comparison.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; <~ ignore the lcos blahblah, that tech is still spoiled
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!

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cybereality
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by cybereality »

Whatever man. All I know is that my old CRT used to give me a serious headache every day just looking at it (not even in 3D). The visible refresh on CRT monitors is killer unless you are able to run like 120Hz+ (and even then its not perfect). LCD at least is comfortable on the eyes for long periods of time. I think the quality is adequate. If you look at modern plasmas, like the Panasonic VT25, its very difficult to say CRT is visible better to the human eye (not some canned test).

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tritosine5G
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by tritosine5G »

CRT has 1.5 ms hold time thats why it got C in peak brightness. Its a pulse display, not a hold display , like LCD.

BTW, 1.5ms, is the same hold time you get, when you use active shutter with LCD's like 2233rz.
Saying you get headache because CRT , is saying that you get headache because active sutter LCD monitor ;)

http://scien.stanford.edu/pages/labsite ... legers.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Plus at the resolutions I want to use it, it will be much :D much :D faster than 120hz.
Image
Image

look how ugly that 2233rz hold time is. You think I can't draw nicer envelope with sony shutter and CRT???
Image
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!

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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by Zerofool »

I still use CRT monitor for everyday use (and gaming). It's possible to use iZ3D's 120Hz mode with AMD card (5th or 6th series), by fooling the Catalyst driver that you have a compatible projector (see more here and here).

I currently use the half-resolution (videocard independent) method described here (in 1600x600@150Hz mode, i.e. 1600x1200@75Hz set in the game/desktop). Size is important though (besides picture quality), so I'll upgrade to a plasma 3DTV, eventually :).

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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by tritosine5G »

Damnnn. I need either 100hz for my projector, or 200hz for my CRT.

Hell is this 120hz fixation....
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!

kriss332
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by kriss332 »

hey tritosine, just plz reply to this.
i need to know yor amd rig. in another thread of mine u mentioned bout yor rig & able to play most of the games. just let me know also. i was planning for ps3 for 3d. but u advised me to get a budget AMD PC. wud u plz suggest a rig. i saw one suggested by cyberiality, good in my budget.- Phenom II 925 cpu & asus M$A785TD-M EVO mobo. any comments or any better suggestion?

kriss332
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by kriss332 »

tritosine wrote:Damnnn. I need either 100hz for my projector, or 200hz for my CRT.

Hell is this 120hz fixation....
Hi tritosine, i had asked for yor gaming rig in another thred where u had suggested me an Amd pc in place of ps3.
Well Cyberreality advised me a rig- http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBund" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... =u00000687
Whats yor opinion. Or any more inputs For good playability? I think i can get some used GPU also. Plz suggest as u use AMD.

kriss332
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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by kriss332 »

tritosine wrote:Damnnn. I need either 100hz for my projector, or 200hz for my CRT.

Hell is this 120hz fixation....
Hi tritosine, i had asked for yor gaming rig in another thred where u had suggested me an Amd pc in place of ps3.
Well Cyberreality advised me a rig- http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBund" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... =u00000687
Whats yor opinion. Or any more inputs For good playability? I think i can get some used GPU also. Plz suggest as u use AMD.

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Re: Help for CRT 3D, possible ?

Post by snarfbot »

i have one of those old 24" crt's and its great except for the ghosting, its subtle but once you notice it, you cant un-notice it.

but in the end its fairly good and they're dirt cheap, if you don't mind shopping around, it could take a while these days to find one in good condition.

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