It is currently Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:23 am



Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
 Samsung C7000 series 3D HDTV manual available 
Author Message
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:11 am
Posts: 320
Reply with quote
The Samsung C7000 series 3D HDTVs' manual is now available for download from Samsung website. I took a quick look, and it does seem like the TV will support both "automatic HDMI 1.4 3D modes", plus the old "manual 3D modes" (checkerboard, row-interleave, column-interleave etc.) that is suitable for computer input. I am relieved that at least Samsung supports both.

It is not too clear to me if they support "full 1080p 3D at 120Hz (60 per eye)" for computer input ... one of the 3D mode is "Frequency -- Displays the images for the left and right eye alternately in frames" and it is "60Hz only", but not clear to me if that is 60Hz total or 60Hz per eye.

P.S. Samsung has prior experience supporting "computer 3D formats", but not Sony/Panasonic etc. So we cannot assume other companies will also support both kinds of 3D signals until we see the actual evidence. Hopefully they will.


Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:48 am
Profile
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 776
Location: Moscow, Russia
Reply with quote
The link: LED C7000 series support - downloads

A few points to make:

1. Just as it was expected, the set does not support any of the optional HDMI 3D stereo modes besides the mandatory frame packing modes at 720p50, 720p60, and 1024p24, so 120 Hz input is only possible in 720p using HDMI 1.4 formats, despite this being a native 1080p display. HDMI 1.4a is not supported either.
3. The half-resolution formats for PC connection include side-by-side, top-bottom, line interleaved, column interleaved, and checkerboard; supported modes include 720p60, 1080i60, and 1080p24/p30/p60. It is not clear if the set supports Sensio and RealD formats (side-by-side with checkerboard).
3. The shutter glasses emitter is incorporated into TV set and there is no VESA Stereo port.
4. The TV supports 2D to 3d upconversion (Sensio?).

I was thinking about getting a new C7000-series Samsung 3D plasma set in anticipation that it would offer better feature set than TVs from Sony and Panasonic and would make a nice big stereo gaming monitor, but no support for full-resolution 1080p60 stereo, no DisplayPort and no VESA Stereo port just spoil the deal. I'm not going to replace a $2000 TV set in just a couple of years when HDMI 1.5 and 8th generation gaming consoles make 1080p60 stereo gaming a requirement, and I don't really need a HDTV right now.


Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:29 am
Profile
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 11394
Reply with quote
No VESA stereo port, that blows. Otherwise it sounds decent.

_________________
check my blog - cybereality.com


Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:19 pm
Profile
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 776
Location: Moscow, Russia
Reply with quote
cybereality wrote:
it sounds decent
... except that gaming stereo is only possible either in non-native resolution, or in half-resolution formats.


Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:07 pm
Profile
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 11394
Reply with quote
DmitryKo wrote:
cybereality wrote:
it sounds decent
... except that gaming stereo is only possible either in non-native resolution, or in half-resolution formats.

That may be the case, but its at least supported. I am not sure if that will be the case with other "next-gen" 3D HDTVs.

_________________
check my blog - cybereality.com


Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:12 pm
Profile
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 776
Location: Moscow, Russia
Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure Panasonic would do anything to support Avatar on the PC, otherwise their tie-in campaign with Cameron and Avatar would look pretty stupid.


Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:49 pm
Profile
Cross Eyed!

Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 108
Reply with quote
I looked into the manual and I understand that the TV supports 1080p PC input at 60Hz for shutter format, doubling internally to 120Hz, so each eye will get 60Hz.
What's great that the device still supports checkerboard format (works both with 3D vision driver and iZ3D driver perfectly). Am I correct that this will only work if the PC signal comes in at the native panel resolution, thus 1920x1080?


Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:43 am
Profile
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:11 am
Posts: 320
Reply with quote
Page 20 of the manual says: "The resolution for HDMI PC mode is optimized to 1920 x 1080 input. An input resolution other than 1920 x 1080 may not be displayed properly in 3D display or full screen mode."


Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:30 pm
Profile
Cross Eyed!

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 142
Reply with quote
For those that don't know, this is the same way Sammy and Mits DLPs are. You have to send it a 1080p 3D signal at 60Hz. It's then internally doubled, yielding 60Hz to each eye.


Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:33 am
Profile
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 776
Location: Moscow, Russia
Reply with quote
Quote:
An input resolution other than 1920 x 1080 may not be displayed properly in 3D display or full screen mode
Really? Then why the hell 720p 3D mode is a mandatory mode even for 1080p displays?

BTW C7000 series support 3D in non-native PC VESA modes as well; I don't think image quality will be great since 1) these are half-resolution modes already, where each L/R is sampled at half the usual sampling interval, and 2) in addition to this subsampling, they have to be upscaled to native 1080p.


Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:31 pm
Profile
Cross Eyed!

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 142
Reply with quote
DmitryKo wrote:
Quote:
An input resolution other than 1920 x 1080 may not be displayed properly in 3D display or full screen mode
Really? Then why the hell 720p 3D mode is a mandatory mode even for 1080p displays?

BTW C7000 series support 3D in non-native PC VESA modes as well; I don't think image quality will be great since 1) these are half-resolution modes already, where each L/R is sampled at half the usual sampling interval, and 2) in addition to this subsampling, they have to be upscaled to native 1080p.


The only thing I can think of is that the PC Mode isn't intended for console gaming. If you think about it, I bet if you connect a PC to it, and play with the resolution and timings, you could get 720p 3D to work (while not in PC mode).

This is kind of like the VGA (DB15) input on some 1080p displays. The highest resolution that some will take is 1024x768, even though it's a 1080p display. I guess it's the PnP factor. Though we all know you can just use a HDMI input and get the higher resolutions.


Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:21 am
Profile
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 776
Location: Moscow, Russia
Reply with quote
I answered in HDMI 1.4 thread.


Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:34 am
Profile
Cross Eyed!

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 142
Reply with quote
DmitryKo wrote:
I answered in HDMI 1.4 thread.


Then I would blame that on the console manufacturers, since their consoles don't have the muscle to handle 1080p60.

What this really means is to expect yet another HDMI update after the next-gen consoles come out, to support 1080p60.


Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:27 am
Profile
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 776
Location: Moscow, Russia
Reply with quote
I blame this on TV manufacturers because they were ignorant of PC gaming needs. They should have implemented native 1080p60 frame-packing stereo mode, even though it's not curently a mandatory mode in HDMI spec.

There is no need for new version of HDMI to do that - all the necessary specifications are already there in HDMI 1.4a, and the 3D portion of the standard is even allowed for implementation in v1.3 devices, if the manufacturer wishes to.


Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:51 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 14 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by STSoftware.