Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

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ss248
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Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/03/25/ ... -facebook/
Read it, i think it may shed some light on the background of this deal.
Some quotes:
WSJ: How did all this happen?

Brendan Irebe: If you know the history, I got introduced to (founder) Palmer Luckey. And we got together, and Palmer had plans to launch a Kickstarter all by himself. He had made a little video of himself talking about it.
When we saw that, and we said “Hey, Palmer, if you work with us, and we got in there, we could actually help you launch this faster, bigger and better. And we could make it more accessible to people by making it a real developer kit and not a do-it-yourself kit and there were all these things we brought to the table.”
"The only thing you need to do is to make me CEO of Oculus." - Iribe said. Maybe back then Luckey thought it was good deal.
WSJ: How did the deal come together?

Irebe: About a week and a half ago, Mark and I were talking and Mark said, “I think we can get behind this and help you guys, and at the same time completely leave you independent and doing it your own way.” That resonated with us and we talked down to discuss it some more. And he said if we’re going to do this, we’d like to just do this really quickly.
we’d like to just do this really quickly.
They wanted to ram through a deal without giving Palmer time to think and talk it over.

Let's look closer at Brendan Iribe workplaces. Most noteworthy is Scaleform (sold to Autodesk in 2011), Gaikai (sold to Sony in 2012), and now Oculus (sold to Facebook in 2014).
Strange coincidence, don't you think?

I think it was Iribe plan all along. He was planning to sell Oculus from the beginning.
So don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by Libertine »

Just hoping the money is shared by all the contributors, including the janitor.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by JonR »

Libertine wrote:Just hoping the money is shared by all the contributors, including the janitor.
The only reason the janitor would deserve any of the money is if he owns a part of the company.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by android78 »

I don't think that Palmer is a victim at all. This will accelerate his goal of getting decent, affordable VR for the masses (and himself).
I imagine that eventually facebook will have their own platform on there (maybe based on android) with their own advertising, etc. That would seem likely after they release the Consumer version 1 though.

On also, don't forget that Palmer will be set for life by this deal, even if everything was to go south with VR and the rift came out and only sold the same number as virtual boy sold, he'll still be very well off. Good on him for making something of himself, especially through something he is passionate about.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by Libertine »

JonR wrote:
Libertine wrote:Just hoping the money is shared by all the contributors, including the janitor.
The only reason the janitor would deserve any of the money is if he owns a part of the company.
Deserve? I don't care much about ownership in a lot of cases, a figment of our imaginations, I care about effort and contribution. Don't get me wrong, im not saying a huge cut or even significant, maybe 20k out of 2bil, assuming he worked diligently. Just a little bonus if he contributed to the process, making life easier and cleaner for the team, even if it was in a non-technical way. Try not to think like a waste of skin corporatist who exploits people by taking advantage of a surplus of labor where people will work for pennies because there are 100 people in line behind him who will do the job for even less because they simply must support their families. The TRUE VALUE of labor can be seen if you imagine a law suddenly passed prohibiting businesses from replacing workers for all current positions, then you will see what companies pay to keep their workers happy...

(happiness being one of the Constitution's primary goals...oh that little detail...)

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

android78 wrote: This will accelerate his goal of getting decent, affordable VR for the masses (and himself).
Maybe. But at what cost?
On also, don't forget that Palmer will be set for life by this deal, even if everything was to go south with VR and the rift came out and only sold the same number as virtual boy sold, he'll still be very well off. Good on him for making something of himself, especially through something he is passionate about.
Maybe he made some good money, if he is lucky, but he lost much more.
Actually, I don't want to talk about it.

Also, I don't think John is happy right now.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by JonR »

Libertine wrote:
Deserve? I don't care much about ownership in a lot of cases, a figment of our imaginations, I care about effort and contribution. Don't get me wrong, im not saying a huge cut or even significant, maybe 20k out of 2bil, assuming he worked diligently. Just a little bonus if he contributed to the process, making life easier and cleaner for the team, even if it was in a non-technical way. Try not to think like a waste of skin corporatist who exploits people by taking advantage of a surplus of labor where people will work for pennies because there are 100 people in line behind him who will do the job for even less because they simply must support their families. The TRUE VALUE of labor can be seen if you imagine a law suddenly passed prohibiting businesses from replacing workers for all current positions, then you will see what companies pay to keep their workers happy...

(happiness being one of the Constitution's primary goals...oh that little detail...)
He's getting payed for his contribution. That's what wages are for. If you feel that someone isn't getting compensated enough, then champion better wages. If you feel that the work force is getting taken advantage of, champion a organized work-force. Property-rights are the back-bone of any functioning economy, and a janitor has as much claim on the sale of a company as I've got on the sale of my neighbors car.

What the US Constitution primary goal is doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. That's their business.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by JonR »

ss248 wrote: Maybe. But at what cost?

Maybe he made some good money, if he is lucky, but he lost much more.
Actually, I don't want to talk about it.

Also, I don't think John is happy right now.
What did the acquisition cost WhatsApp or Instagram? All this naysaying seems to be very poorly founded in reality. From what I've seen, Facebook hasn't affected their subsidiaries in any noticeable degree.

What exactly is it that Palmer lost?

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

What did the acquisition cost WhatsApp or Instagram? All this naysaying seems to be very poorly founded in reality. From what I've seen, Facebook hasn't affected their subsidiaries in any noticeable degree.
I'm not a prophet, only god knows.
But there are rumors going around already, like
According to a person involved in the deal who was not allowed to speak publicly because he was not authorized by either company, Facebook eventually plans to redesign the Oculus hardware and rebrand it with a Facebook interface and logo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/26/techn ... iness&_r=4
We can only hope, that bad things will not happen because of facebook.

Btw Libertine, JonR, if you continue talking about janitor's contribution, you will derail the thread.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by JonR »

ss248 wrote: I'm not a prophet, only god knows.
But there are rumors going around already, like
According to a person involved in the deal who was not allowed to speak publicly because he was not authorized by either company, Facebook eventually plans to redesign the Oculus hardware and rebrand it with a Facebook interface and logo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/26/techn ... iness&_r=4
We can only hope, that bad things will not happen because of facebook.

Btw Libertine, JonR, if you continue talking about janitor's contribution, you will derail the thread.
That's my point exactly, only god knows. There's zero evidence that Facebook will ruin the goal of their subsidiaries, yet everyone seems to be certain that's the case. "A person involved...who was not allowed to speak publicly because he was not authorized by either company" could be anyone, and his involvement could be anything. All we can do is wait and see till something concrete happens.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

JonR, the point of this thread was to say, that it's not Palmer who sold out, it's Iribe, who have control of Oculus.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by JonR »

ss248 wrote:JonR, the point of this thread was to say that it's not Palmer who sold out, it's Iribe, who have control of Oculus.
"Selling out is the compromising of integrity, morality, or principles in exchange for personal gain, such as money."

If the CV1 is a white and blue locked-to-Facebook Facerift, then that'll be the case. If the CV1 is everything we hoped for and more, I'd say that it isn't. Even if there'll be two models, one locked-down-subsidized-by-Facebook one and one proper Oculus VR one, I wouldn't say that they've sold out. All I'm saying is that people should wait and see. There's no reason not to.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

JonR wrote: "Selling out is the compromising of integrity, morality, or principles in exchange for personal gain, such as money."

If the CV1 is a white and blue locked-to-Facebook Facerift, then that'll be the case. If the CV1 is everything we hoped for and more, I'd say that it isn't. Even if there'll be two models, one locked-down-subsidized-by-Facebook one and one proper Oculus VR one, I wouldn't say that they've sold out. All I'm saying is that people should wait and see. There's no reason not to.
When i said "sold out" i mean more direct way. Like Oculus selling and facebook buying.
Go to any popular forum and see yourself, what people saying about palmer right now.
"Devil", "traitor", "Anakin went through some rough times, but he did bring balance to the force? - Get out!", "Sony, here i come".
Actually, thinking about it right now, maybe i shouldn't create this thread at all. But I really think Palmer is nice guy and even if Oculus sold out (in bad way), it's not him to blame.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by JonR »

ss248 wrote:
When i said "sold out" i mean more direct way. Like Oculus selling and facebook buying.
Go to any popular forum and see yourself, what people saying about palmer right now.
"Devil", "traitor", "Anakin went through some rough times, but he did bring balance to the force? - Get out!", "Sony, here i come".
Actually, thinking about it right now, maybe i shouldn't create this thread at all. But I really think Palmer is nice guy and even if Oculus sold out (in bad way), it's not him to blame.
Ah, my bad. I agree that the outrage is ridiculous. It just goes to show how hated Facebook is in the PC enthusiast community. Personally, I'm not convinced that Facebook buying Oculus is a bad thing. If they interfere in how Oculus want to proceed, then it was bad. But if they enable Oculus to do what the wanted to all along with a nice infusion of cash, then it was a good thing. Time will tell.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by Bloump »

Let's just hope that this is not going to be Microsoft "helping" nokia spread their business.

Image

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

JonR wrote:Time will tell.
Think so too.

Meanwhile on internet
If I ever see Facebook branding on anything that's not optional, I'm done.
Palmer's answer: Not really reasonable in a literal sense, but I get your drift.
Redesign and rebrand rumor confirmed.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by colocolo »

Worst news i received since years...... OMG.... how i hate those spastic facebook....the biggest ignorance on the whole http://WWW....... How i hate the face of Mark Zoockerberck and all this spastic talk about him is like.......BLA..........AAAAAH..... believe me i am far from the 'hater' site....gosh i even hate 'hater sayers' with their self-loving grin......
Noooo....OVR....how could u..... :cry: :cry: :cry: .
The most hypocratic side of the planet...not to say fashist...
Social...?? haha....Asocial networks......
Facebook is like a ignorant small village from the dark age....
To imagine that this side is now on the forefront of future tech.........................speechless


JUDAS!!!

whoever had this in mind........
Last edited by colocolo on Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

colocolo wrote:............
You're trying too hard.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by colocolo »

ss248 wrote:
colocolo wrote:............
You're trying too hard.
don't know exactly what u mean by that..... but i think this term would be highly underestimated.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by Paladia »

He's not a victim. Everyone knows why he sold out, he knows it as well. Would he have sold to Facebook if they didn't offer him money? Of course not.

It is just sad. Thousands of people backed and funded his dream on Kickstarter, people have been doing their own omnidirectional treadmills, learning to code to make games, all because they believed in him. Heck, even Valve helped him. Oculus was destined to become the next Valve, loved by the community and still being profitable.

However, he saw an opportunity for an even quicker buck and couldn't care less about the Kickstarter, how it started or the people who brought him there. He didn't care about the promises to not sell out. Just the other week he posted of how we are all in this together. He's now a billionaire and all the patents and technology are in the hand of the multi-billion dollar corporation Facebook. This isn't why people kickstarted Oculus.

To quote one of the biggest backers (Notch): "I did not chip in ten grand to seed a first investment round to build value for a Facebook acquisition.". Which is the truth. How many would have funded Oculus through the Kickstarter if they knew it was just a way to build value for a tech giant acquisition?

It was well played by him, riding on the emotions and hopes of people to make a quick buck. There's no reason to pretend it is something other than what it is.
Last edited by Paladia on Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by GeraldT »

nobody is a victim, some just feel like they are obviously. everyone will now have the ability to buy a better VR headset for very likely less money than before and use it for very likely much more content than before.
when I see people claiming how developers will flee to Morpheus etc. then they obviously are not aware of the real situation but speak from their gut. devs can not simply order a morpheus and move their projects ... only Oculus allows EVERYONE to order a dev kit, only Oculus gives away the SDK for free to everyone. And now they got money from Facebook to scale it all up even more.
Instead of being afraid the the next Rift will be equipped with a brainwave reader that lets Facebook read your secret thoughts maybe consider what is really likely to happen!
want to demo the Rift or check it out? click here

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by colocolo »

GeraldT wrote:nobody is a victim, some just feel like they are obviously. everyone will now have the ability to buy a better VR headset for very likely less money than before and use it for very likely much more content than before.
when I see people claiming how developers will flee to Morpheus etc. then they obviously are not aware of the real situation but speak from their gut. devs can not simply order a morpheus and move their projects ... only Oculus allows EVERYONE to order a dev kit, only Oculus gives away the SDK for free to everyone. And now they got money from Facebook to scale it all up even more.
Instead of being afraid the the next Rift will be equipped with a brainwave reader that lets Facebook read your secret thoughts maybe consider what is really likely to happen!
You are very right GeraldT. Its just that i dont want to have a Facebook logo on my Rift package or even in the instruction manuals.... would have a bitter/strange aftertaste.....
Just keep the Facebook out of the product OVR ... PLEASE
Anyway i think paying 2 billion dollars will have somehow of some sort an impact....for sure.....

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by V8Griff »

Tone wrote:Another perspective on this deal: http://vrtifacts.com/hmds/why-sell-out-oculus-facebook/
Why does everyone assume Palmer relinquished control without realising it? I suggest he's a great deal brighter than people are giving him credit for and he knew what he was doing and took the risk to realise his dream and make a few dollars along the way.

Here's another perspective on the deal as well.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-mark ... ion-2014-3

Some ideas in there that I wholeheartedly agree with, in the scale of things $400m cash could well turn out to be a great deal and the $extra $300m will have to be earned.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by Tone »

V8Griff wrote:Why does everyone assume Palmer relinquished control without realising it? I suggest he's a great deal brighter than people are giving him credit for and he knew what he was doing and took the risk to realise his dream and make a few dollars along the way.
Perhaps he did realize it, but that's not how things usually go down even with the brightest of founders. In any event, he's certainly entitled to make a few bucks and if FB is his dream, more power to him.

I still am dumbfounded by the level of vitriol towards Palmer on Reddit, Facebook, and others. Just waiting for Godwin's Law to kick in...

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Post by GeraldT »

colocolo wrote:... Its just that i dont want to have a Facebook logo on my Rift package or even in the instruction manuals.... would have a bitter/strange aftertaste.....
Just keep the Facebook out of the product OVR ... PLEASE
would it be really that important that there is no small Facebook logo somewhere in the manual or on the Rift itself? It is a company that now is the parent of Oculus, so they are likely to be mentioned somewhere. That does not mean we will see Facebook integration in any way - except for Facebook apps that now are likely to be much more refined due to knowledge transfer.
want to demo the Rift or check it out? click here

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by budda »

I just cant wait for the hitler videos parodying facebook taking over oculus.

I can imagine the fuhrer ranting and raving in the bunker about the jewish conspiracy to take over not only the real world but the virtual world as well.

On another level, I can recall the scene from Apollo 13, when the Astronauts realise the landing on the moon was cancelled. Palmer may have lost his big chance of being another Steve Wozniak or Bill Gates.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

budda wrote:I just cant wait for the hitler videos parodying facebook taking over oculus.
You're 15 hours late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_JfB4YEan4

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by V8Griff »

Tone wrote:I still am dumbfounded by the level of vitriol towards Palmer on Reddit, Facebook, and others. Just waiting for Godwin's Law to kick in...
Totally agree. It's outrageous by the tone of some of it you'd have thought he'd gone on national TV and skinned live kittens.

In my opinion it's driven by the unrealistic views of people who've probably never created anything who think everything should be open source, free or not for profit. Smacks of jealousy as well.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by ss248 »

First pic of rift redesign just leaked out.
http://rghost.ru/53374914/image.png
It's not so bad, r-right guys?

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by mayaman »

ss248 wrote:
budda wrote:I just cant wait for the hitler videos parodying facebook taking over oculus.
You're 15 hours late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_JfB4YEan4
Hehe, never gets tired.

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Re: Don't hate Palmer, he is victim here too.

Post by realyst2k »

Tone wrote: Just waiting for Godwin's Law to kick in...
Damn, I should have bookmarked those. As expected, it has ;)

Edit: Beaten to the punch :)

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