It is currently Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:08 am



Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 
 Proposal: Free consumer rift for every kickstarter backer 
Author Message
Certif-Eyed!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 541
Reply with quote
Serious. 2B, what is another 3M for those who invested in you.

After all, we were the original investors in something that didn't even exist yet. It was just an prototype and an idea.

It would deal with Notch's (reasonable) complaint:

Quote:
And I did not chip in ten grand to seed a first investment round to build value for a Facebook acquisition.


Come on Palmer, we were seed investors. Throw us a bone.

_________________
Gear VR: Maybe OVR isn't so evil after all!


Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:11 pm
Profile
Certif-Eyed!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 541
Reply with quote
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/03/25/ ... donations/

Or as one guy said on HN:

"This is the real shame in the Oculus acquisition. If Oculus had been able to give away just 10% equity, every single Kickstarter backer would be $20,000 richer today. The sentiment would be completely different. The SEC needs to get in gear and start allowing equity crowdfunding pronto.
The SEC's classification of millionaires as "accredited investors" who get first crack at all the best investment opportunities is exactly the kind of "rich get richer" policy that people ought to be furious about. I think not enough people understand it."

_________________
Gear VR: Maybe OVR isn't so evil after all!


Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:28 pm
Profile
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:18 pm
Posts: 1329
Reply with quote
lol @ people claiming to be investors because they backed a kickstarter.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:26 am
Profile
Certif-Eyed!

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:10 pm
Posts: 645
Reply with quote
MSat wrote:
lol @ people claiming to be investors because they backed a kickstarter.

Exactly this. We are no more investors in occulus for backing the kickstarter than we are investors in mcdonalds for buying hamburgers. Yes, we gave them money. Yes, their business grew based on that money. No, that does not mean we are investors, it means we are customers.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:31 am
Profile
Certif-Eyed!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 541
Reply with quote
Except the difference is that McDonalds has hamburgers ready to go, and has already invested in the capital and equipment.

All OVR had invested in was a video.

We put up $$$ based on little more than a promise.

_________________
Gear VR: Maybe OVR isn't so evil after all!


Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:57 am
Profile
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 450
Location: UK
Reply with quote
This thread proves that much of this outrage is based on jealousy and the 'Green eyed monster'

You got what you wanted from Oculus in the form of a DK1 or a T shirt, they owe you nothing else.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:53 am
Profile
Certif-Eyed!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 541
Reply with quote
I'm not outraged at all. I'm deeply deeply entertained by this outcome. I love the outrage! It just shows how ludicrously wrong all the fanboys were to put their faith that Palmer and friends would do anything other than what's in the best interest of Palmer and friends.

I'm merely suggesting a way that OVR could win back some of its fanboys, which TBH is a lot more important than people give them credit.

The brand and goodwill of OVR is in great part based on the Oculus fan club. If you subtract that, then you just have commodity head to head against Sony and Microsoft. Two companies which have waaay more to win/lose in all this than OVR/FB.

_________________
Gear VR: Maybe OVR isn't so evil after all!


Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:57 am
Profile
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 450
Location: UK
Reply with quote
blazespinnaker wrote:
The brand and goodwill of OVR is in great part based on the Oculus fan club. If you subtract that, then you just have commodity head to head against Sony and Microsoft. Two companies which have waaay more to win/lose in all this than OVR/FB.


TBH the 'outrage ' is limited to a few guys living in an bubble who think everything should be open source and support hacking of Windows because they hate Bill Gates.

I'd suggest the few hundred or so mouthing off on Reddit and similar sites will be no real loss to the VR world if indeed they do cancel their orders for DK2 and sell their DK1s but the tens of thousands who continue to work with their DK1s and DK2 will contribute greatly to this now well supported technology.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:12 am
Profile
Certif-Eyed!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 541
Reply with quote
Much of the outrage is coming from here, actually:

Image

_________________
Gear VR: Maybe OVR isn't so evil after all!


Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:15 am
Profile
One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:01 am
Posts: 47
Reply with quote
blazespinnaker wrote:
Except the difference is that McDonalds has hamburgers ready to go, and has already invested in the capital and equipment.

All OVR had invested in was a video.

We put up $$$ based on little more than a promise.


Doesn't change the fact that all kickstarter backers did was pre-order a product. What they would get for their money was clearly stated, and as far as I know, all kickstarter rewards have been delivered. Have they not?


Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:23 am
Profile
One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:01 am
Posts: 47
Reply with quote
blazespinnaker wrote:
I'm not outraged at all. I'm deeply deeply entertained by this outcome. I love the outrage! It just shows how ludicrously wrong all the fanboys were to put their faith that Palmer and friends would do anything other than what's in the best interest of Palmer and friends.

I'm merely suggesting a way that OVR could win back some of its fanboys, which TBH is a lot more important than people give them credit.

The brand and goodwill of OVR is in great part based on the Oculus fan club. If you subtract that, then you just have commodity head to head against Sony and Microsoft. Two companies which have waaay more to win/lose in all this than OVR/FB.


It's funny how so many people are convinced that a massive money injection somehow goes against the core goal of Palmer Luckey, to bring VR to the masses. That somehow this will lead to an inferior product. Funnier still when you realize that this conclusion is based on nothing but their hatred of Facebook. How has being acquired by Facebook made WhatsApp or Instragram worse than previously?

If you'd have the chance of making a better product by sacrificing goodwill would you? Would you rather have people buy your product due to its merit, or due to goodwill? I also don't see how a gaming peripheral is more important to Microsoft or Sony, one who is predominantly a software company and the other an consumer-electronics company, than it is to Oculus or even Facebook.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:30 am
Profile
Certif-Eyable!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:10 am
Posts: 1057
Location: Germany
Reply with quote
I see no reason they should do that - the kickstarter people got what they kickstarted. And that was a product, not a company. The company has been kickstarted by Brendan Iribe that actually put real money in it (and I think others too). And he did one hell of a job delivering on his promise to make Oculus grow fast ... I still can't believe how fast.
If Palmer/Oculus felt compelled to support the real first supporters, then it would be those here in the forum that ordered before there was a kickstarter (and I am not one of them). But that would likely lead to an outbreak of kickstarter backers like notch crying out - so better not do that too.

Proposal: be happy with what you got so far - they have done an awesome job and I predict they will keep doing one.

_________________
want to demo the Rift or check it out? click here


Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:33 am
Profile WWW
Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:53 pm
Posts: 54
Reply with quote
Quote:
The SEC needs to get in gear and start allowing equity crowdfunding pronto.


That I can agree with, as it would do amazing wonders for the crowd source funding community, the SEC really does need to allow this.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:52 am
Profile
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 450
Location: UK
Reply with quote
3trip wrote:
Quote:
The SEC needs to get in gear and start allowing equity crowdfunding pronto.


That I can agree with, as it would do amazing wonders for the crowd source funding community, the SEC really does need to allow this.


That would be a great way to drive companies away from Kickstarter.

The whole point of KS is that you don't have to give away equity to get funded, equity is the motivation for starting a company and the more you give away in the beginning the heavier the dilution as you progress.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:32 am
Profile
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 323
Location: Connecticut
Reply with quote
V8Griff wrote:
This thread proves that much of this outrage is based on jealousy and the 'Green eyed monster'

You got what you wanted from Oculus in the form of a DK1 or a T shirt, they owe you nothing else.


Bullshit. this segment wouldn't even exist if it weren't for people like me and you. Don't even think it would buddy.

Unbridled capitalism rears its ugly head again.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:42 am
Profile
Two Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:53 pm
Posts: 54
Reply with quote
V8Griff wrote:
3trip wrote:
Quote:
The SEC needs to get in gear and start allowing equity crowdfunding pronto.


That I can agree with, as it would do amazing wonders for the crowd source funding community, the SEC really does need to allow this.


That would be a great way to drive companies away from Kickstarter.

The whole point of KS is that you don't have to give away equity to get funded, equity is the motivation for starting a company and the more you give away in the beginning the heavier the dilution as you progress.


Did anyone say crowd sourced funding must be forced to give equity?

@mayaman, government regulations are keeping companies from giving equity, how's that bridled capitalism taste?


Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:47 am
Profile
Certif-Eyed!

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:10 pm
Posts: 645
Reply with quote
If you don't like the idea of not having a piece of the pie when a kickstarter project makes it big, don't back kickstarter. Nobody is pretending that you are making an investment in the company, it does exactly what it says on the tin: you get to makes a contribution to kickstart a project because you want to see that product come to market. You aren't making an investment and hoping they will make it big, you are saying that it is worth $X to help ensure that this product becomes a reality. I think half the point of a kickstarter campaign is to establish that yes, there is a consumer base for your product, and they are willing to pay money for it, so you can judge how much that is worth and hence how much is reasonable to invest into your project.

The only similarity to an investor is giving them money before the product is released. That is it. You did not sign an agreement that you are owed x% of the profits, or a x% return on your investment, or that you gave them a loan with x% interest that they need to pay you back for. If you went up to zuckerburg when he was working on facebook, and said "I heard about your new project, I think that sounds awesome. Here, have $500 to help make it happen", you would not be entitled to one cent now that facebook is huge.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:56 am
Profile
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 323
Location: Connecticut
Reply with quote
lol I don't expect anything in return stupid. I expected a little more from the company I put faith in. Nothing wrong with this. But I guess my idealistic nature is naive. Almighty dollar baby, almighty dollar.

Facebook will bury this tech.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:11 am
Profile
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 450
Location: UK
Reply with quote
3trip wrote:
Did anyone say crowd sourced funding must be forced to give equity?

@mayaman, government regulations are keeping companies from giving equity, how's that bridled capitalism taste?


No but the fact that equity has to be addressed as a potential in a Kickstarter will, I'm sure, mean due diligence will be required to prevent fraud and the additional controls required will make things difficult and complicated for both the Kickstarter and the Backer.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:01 am
Profile
Certif-Eyed!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 541
Reply with quote
It's not an issue of who owes what. It's just good marketing.

Really, WTF is 3 MILLION in the context of 2 BILLION?

That being said, it might be too late. All that rage is out there on the interwebs and NYT and WSJ and etc has probably already done a lot of damage to the brand (both brands, TBH)

They should have announced this with the acquisition.

Plus, kickstarter folks are great at spreading the word. They make noise, show off their cool toys to friends, etc. Facebook would be smart to bring them onside immediately.

Quote:
No but the fact that equity has to be addressed as a potential in a Kickstarter will, I'm sure, mean due diligence will be required to prevent fraud and the additional controls required will make things difficult and complicated for both the Kickstarter and the Backer.


RIght, because fraud isn't a problem on Kickstarter already! Lol. The laws are hugely moronic, but they're trying to change them. They're just doing an awful awful job.

_________________
Gear VR: Maybe OVR isn't so evil after all!


Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:15 pm
Profile
Certif-Eyable!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:38 am
Posts: 990
Reply with quote
You should think of kickstarter like a charity fundraiser. I often buy charity chocolates for the local school fundraiser. When I do, I pay more then retail price for chocolates, but it doesn't mean that I then own part of the school, I own the over-priced chocolates which I enjoy, knowing that the money is going to something I want to succeed.
I wanted oculus to succeed, so I bought the (reasonably priced) rift DK1. It seems to have done well. I'm not 100% certain that it is going the way I would have hoped (not saying they're not either since it's too early to tell), but it's no longer my call. The kids have graduated, if they want to become porn stars, who am I to stop them?


Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:14 pm
Profile
Certif-Eyed!

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:38 pm
Posts: 529
Reply with quote
blazespinnaker wrote:
Really, WTF is 3 MILLION in the context of 2 BILLION?


2 Billion goes to Palmer and crew. Oculus goes to facebutt. That 2 billion is not available to oculus to spend. If Palmer wants to buy Rifts for people they would come from his personal share of the cash, not from oculus.

I do agree that if fb gave either a free Rift or a large discount to ks backers it would go a long way to quelling the tide of hate.


android78 wrote:
The kids have graduated, if they want to become porn stars, who am I to stop them?


Stop them? No. But you have every right to be disapointed, embarassed, full or rage or maybe even joy. And to tell people about those feelings if you wish.

_________________
"If you have a diabolical mind, the first thing that probably came to mind is that it will make an excellent trap: how do you get off a functional omni-directional treadmill?"


Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:10 pm
Profile
Certif-Eyable!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:38 am
Posts: 990
Reply with quote
bobv5 wrote:
android78 wrote:
The kids have graduated, if they want to become porn stars, who am I to stop them?


Stop them? No. But you have every right to be disapointed, embarassed, full or rage or maybe even joy. And to tell people about those feelings if you wish.

Disappointed, maybe, but why would I be embarrassed or full of rage? It's their choice, after all. So long as they aren't coerced into it if they're making good money, good on them. I shouldn't expect a cut of what they make though.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:24 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 23 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by STSoftware.