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 Viiwok Deva HMD - Adapter hybrid for 7" tablets 
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Cross Eyed!

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On Indiegogo in December.

Looks like this:



It uses its own discrete gyro-sensors for headtracking, so it's not strictly an adapter only. It has 2", aspheric lenses. I might add direct HDMI-USB input further down the line, in order to connect it directly to the PC using a HDMI cable, but I'm still testing this feature, because I'd preffer the wifi only approach. The latency from the sensors is quite low (it's recognised as a wireless mouse), and the one for the display is about 50-70 ms in optimum conditions (solid Nvidia GPU - 650/750 or better, 802.11ac).

Target price - around 60€ for the early backers.


Last edited by Attreyu on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:49 am
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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Attreyu wrote:
The latency from the sensors is nil


Where have I heard that before?


Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:39 pm
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Petrif-Eyed
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Attreyu wrote:
The latency from the sensors is nil
Such an absolute statement cannot be true. The DAC in the sensor has a settling time, which adds latency. The communications channel adds latency. The host PC interrupts and/or message queue adds latency. The program run loop adds latency.

... and that is assuming you have magical noise-free sensors that do not need any filtering. Filtering typically adds latency, significantly so, in fact...

FYI, the definition of "nil" is ZERO. Claiming NO latency (not even measured in nanoseconds) is not the same as saying "insignificant latency" (which would also be untrue with modern affordable technology).

Where do you get your nil-latency "gyro sensors"? I want some! Do they have built-in accelerometer and mag sensors to help prevent drift? Or is this still in the unresearched planning stage?

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Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:57 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Krenzo wrote:
Attreyu wrote:
The latency from the sensors is nil


Where have I heard that before?


Haha :lol:

Well, if you're measuring the latency of a mouse, as geekmaster has put it, you're bound to find it exists at some level.

Ergo, if a mouse latency spoils your gaming experience, this would too.

In this case though, the real, perceived latency comes from the video stream being transmitted through wifi.


Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:16 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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geekmaster wrote:
Attreyu wrote:
The latency from the sensors is nil
Such an absolute statement cannot be true. The DAC in the sensor has a settling time, which adds latency. The communications channel adds latency. The host PC interrupts and/or message queue adds latency. The program run loop adds latency.

... and that is assuming you have magical noise-free sensors that do not need any filtering. Filtering typically adds latency, significantly so, in fact...

FYI, the definition of "nil" is ZERO. Claiming NO latency (not even measured in nanoseconds) is not the same as saying "insignificant latency" (which would also be untrue with modern affordable technology).

Where do you get your nil-latency "gyro sensors"? I want some! Do they have built-in accelerometer and mag sensors to help prevent drift? Or is this still in the unresearched planning stage?


I'm not going into this again, dissecting everything to bits, the seriousness and the almost clinical attention to details while talking about a game controller is not that important for me but obviously it is to you :lol: I know what "nil" means but if you preffer "insignificant latency", well so be it. Same goes with "gyro sensors" instead of gyrometer.

It's an adapter for 7" tablets which can also be used for gaming if you can deal with the latency and not using it for hours on end. Or for watching a movie in SBS. It might work with 6.9" tablets as well but don't take my word for it, I must do some thorough testing.


Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:31 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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I've seen HDMI outputs on tablets, but never HDMI inputs..


Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:08 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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MSat wrote:
I've seen HDMI outputs on tablets, but never HDMI inputs..


And you'd be correct. The only tablets with some sort of video input are some weird chinese models with a CVBS jack.

This is a somewhat peculiar adapter. It relies on the user's tablet. When I mentioned HDMI-USB input, I meant exactly that, which is an adapter which accepts HDMI input on one end and has a USB-male on the other which could be connected to the microUSB of the tablet. It's a converter of sorts.


Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:43 pm
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Attreyu wrote:
Well, if you're measuring the latency of a mouse, as geekmaster has put it, you're bound to find it exists at some level.

Ergo, if a mouse latency spoils your gaming experience, this would too.


Most modern mice have a sample rate of 500-1000hz, Android tablets top out at 100hz. Combine that with the much lower latency threshold you get when wearing a screen on your head, and I assure you that people who are fine with a mouse will notice the 5-10 times higher latency of a system like this. Also, I should note that 7" is too wide for most people to watch SBS video on, even ignoring the skewed aspect ratio.

What tablets support this HDMI to USB converter you describe?


Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:50 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
Most modern mice have a sample rate of 500-1000hz, Android tablets top out at 100hz.


The sensors are not the tablet's. They are discrete. I'm not using the tablet's integrated sensors, as per discussion on the other topic, you have convinced me that if using the integrated sensors it would add to the already present latency from the video-feed. So it's like two lanes, but on parallel, one-way streets. One is the video feed coming from the PC, the other is the headtracking signal from the adapter to the PC, bypassing the tablet entirely.

PalmerTech wrote:
Also, I should note that 7" is too wide for most people to watch SBS video on, even ignoring the skewed aspect ratio.


I have watched a couple of movies in SBS on my tablet, it's fine. In fact, I think even wider screens should be better, in order to compensate for the aspect-ratio (in landscape mode).

PalmerTech wrote:
What tablets support this HDMI to USB converter you describe?


Any tablet with a microUSB port - basically all tablets. It uses the same principle used in the EasyCap dongle, so it's recognised as a webcam (Android supports it natively, as plug'n'play). It has its latency though for now, obviously, so at this point I consider the splashtop route more effective, in terms of latency/comfort.


Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:25 am
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Thanks for the clarification.

Attreyu wrote:
I have watched a couple of movies in SBS on my tablet, it's fine. In fact, I think even wider screens should be better, in order to compensate for the aspect-ratio (in landscape mode).


You must have a very wide IPD, the average person would have to greatly diverge their eyes to see a SBS image on a 7" tablet, that is why the Rift dev kit has partial overlap. Making the screen wider would not help compensate for the aspect ratio, everything will still be twice as tall as it should be.


Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:41 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
Thanks for the clarification.

Attreyu wrote:
I have watched a couple of movies in SBS on my tablet, it's fine. In fact, I think even wider screens should be better, in order to compensate for the aspect-ratio (in landscape mode).


You must have a very wide IPD, the average person would have to greatly diverge their eyes to see a SBS image on a 7" tablet, that is why the Rift dev kit has partial overlap. Making the screen wider would not help compensate for the aspect ratio, everything will still be twice as tall as it should be.


I have a 7.2-7.3 IPD. I used Tridef for the conversion.


Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:11 pm
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PalmerTech wrote:
You must have a very wide IPD, the average person would have to greatly diverge their eyes to see a SBS image on a 7" tablet,


I think 'have to' is wrong thing to say here. Other factors could be adjusted instead, such as resolution, distance, and eyecups.

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Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:49 pm
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blazespinnaker wrote:
PalmerTech wrote:
You must have a very wide IPD, the average person would have to greatly diverge their eyes to see a SBS image on a 7" tablet,


I think 'have to' is wrong thing to say here. Other factors could be adjusted instead, such as resolution, distance, and eyecups.


With the system he has been showing/describing, "have to" is correct. Adjusting the distance cannot solve the divergence problem, and manufacturing eyecups/lenses to do so is very hard/expensive. You could cut the resolution way down and only use part of the panel for proper aspect ratio SBS video, but his videos and posts suggest that he does not plan on doing that.


Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:56 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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PalmerTech wrote:
blazespinnaker wrote:
PalmerTech wrote:
You must have a very wide IPD, the average person would have to greatly diverge their eyes to see a SBS image on a 7" tablet,


I think 'have to' is wrong thing to say here. Other factors could be adjusted instead, such as resolution, distance, and eyecups.


With the system he has been showing/describing, "have to" is correct. Adjusting the distance cannot solve the divergence problem, and manufacturing eyecups/lenses to do so is very hard/expensive. You could cut the resolution way down and only use part of the panel for proper aspect ratio SBS video, but his videos and posts suggest that he does not plan on doing that.


I think you are right. Some time ago I was using one of the first prototypes, a very rudimentary cartoon box with only the lenses glued in. I used my IPD to mount them and was playing around with a Unity demo, just to see how the sensors work, what's the best focal distance, etcetera.
For me it was perfect, I could see perfectly the sole converged image, in detail, without the edges of the display, or my nose.
Still, I showed the thing to my wife, her brother and a friend. All, without exception claimed they can't sense depth, that there are 2 images instead of one and that they had to cross eye-focus on the horizon in order to comprehend anything.
And then I showed it to another friend who normally wears glasses (weak myopia - nearsighted). She took down the glasses and she could see it as well as I did. And her IPD is "normal", around 6.8.


Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:57 pm
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Quote:
With the system he has been showing/describing, "have to" is correct. Adjusting the distance cannot solve the divergence problem, and manufacturing eyecups/lenses to do so is very hard/expensive. You could cut the resolution way down and only use part of the panel for proper aspect ratio SBS video, but his videos and posts suggest that he does not plan on doing that.


Well, he can though, that's the point.

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Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:32 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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The prototype is almost finished.

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Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:11 am
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Nice Attreyu, looks good!! Buena suerte en Indigogo!!! :D

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Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:06 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Hannibalj2 wrote:
Nice Attreyu, looks good!! Buena suerte en Indigogo!!! :D


Gracias tio ! :)

Image

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Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:04 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:31 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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The IndieGoGo campaign is now live.

http://igg.me/at/ViiwokDeva/x/2756152


Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:59 am
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Cross Eyed!

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With a first buyer ! Yes, I know the presentation video sucks big time... :(


Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:47 am
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It's flexible funding.Don't like funding these as I still pay even if they don't reach their goal.
Will I still get one if full funding isn't met and I pledge enough?


Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:28 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Yes. I promise you that you will receive it.

I chose flexible funding in order to cover the molding expenses and some other needs, but I've found some investors outside the crowdfunding campaign which help me offset some of the bills.

In April the deliveries will begin as stated and there will be also an online store for those who want to purchase the adaptor.

Right now I have updated the campaign to specifically adress this issue.

Also, it will support smartphones too, out of the box, besides tablets.


Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:53 am
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Cross Eyed!

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The tablet version, before entering mass production next month.

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Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:27 pm
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