Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

AngelJ wrote:- main.cpp is my source code. Please excuse the sloppiness. When I was coding this I never thought I'd post it (I threw this together in a hurry so I could post a demo), so it needs a serious refactoring. I'm just posting the c++ so people can put together their own project in whatever IDE they use.
Refactor WHAT? When you strip out all the mandatory Windows cruft, there is not a whole lot left. WINAPI programs tend to look that way.

FYI, to compile using VC++ 2010 (with default settings), you need to wrap your strings in TEXT(), for example:
"Deskope Window",
should be:
TEXT("Deskope Window"),

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by tbowren »

geekmaster wrote:
tbowren wrote:... Oops, yeah sorry AngelJ, updated my thanks. I only saw the 2nd page and grabbed it before reading the entire thread. ...
How did you edit your old post (after mutliple replies) without a "Last edited by ..." remark getting inserted at the bottom of it?

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 38#p119925
I don't know why it didn't show up as "edited". Maybe because it was only a few minutes after the initial posting? I just hit the edit button.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by AngelJ »

geekmaster wrote:
AngelJ wrote:- main.cpp is my source code. Please excuse the sloppiness. When I was coding this I never thought I'd post it (I threw this together in a hurry so I could post a demo), so it needs a serious refactoring. I'm just posting the c++ so people can put together their own project in whatever IDE they use.
Refactor WHAT? When you strip out all the mandatory Windows cruft, there is not a whole lot left. WINAPI programs tend to look that way.

FYI, to compile using VC++ 2010 (with default settings), you need to wrap your strings in TEXT(), for example:
"Deskope Window",
should be:
TEXT("Deskope Window"),
You're probably right. I just feel like it's not good OOP. When there are settings/adjustments then I think I'd really want a Deskope class.

Thanks for the heads up about TEXT(). I couldn't find any documentation on MSDN though. Do you have a link so I can read up on it?

I finally had a chance to try the version of Deskope you modified. I'm having a hard time spotting any differences between ours. I'd be curious to know what differences people are seeing that made yours seem a lot better.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by 3dvison »

Can this be used with a DIY Rift with a 5.6 1280*800 screen, and I have both a Hillcrest & a YEI 3 tracker ?

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by AngelJ »

Geekmaster, what are your thoughts on the Magnification API? Did you try it? I thought it used the GPU and would be very fast, but the experience just seems a lot worse with it compared to blitting. It does have the advantage of leaving your RiftDK's desktop space totally usable though, which is nice.
3dvison wrote:Can this be used with a DIY Rift with a 5.6 1280*800 screen, and I have both a Hillcrest & a YEI 3 tracker ?
Unfortunately not in it's current state because it looks for a RiftDK through the Oculus SDK. It wouldn't be a lot of coding to make it work though (source is in the original post).
Last edited by AngelJ on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by AngelJ »

geekmaster wrote:A simple (non Aero) windows desktop may render faster for this.
Why didn't I try this sooner?! I just disabled aero and it runs SOOO much better!!

Edit: I just added this to the original post and changed this font^ to red because it's a pretty big deal.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by 3dvison »

AngelJ wrote:
3dvison wrote:Can this be used with a DIY Rift with a 5.6 1280*800 screen, and I have both a Hillcrest & a YEI 3 tracker ?
Unfortunately not in it's current state because it looks for a RiftDK through the Oculus SDK. It wouldn't be a lot of coding to make it work though (source is in the original post).
I am waiting on a Dev. Kit. Rift so I look forward to using this...Thanks Angelj for all your work in making this.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

AngelJ wrote:... Thanks for the heads up about TEXT(). I couldn't find any documentation on MSDN though. Do you have a link so I can read up on it?

I finally had a chance to try the version of Deskope you modified. I'm having a hard time spotting any differences between ours. I'd be curious to know what differences people are seeing that made yours seem a lot better.
The TEXT() macro prevents compiler errors:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx
It automatically translates to either Unicode (16-bit) or ANSI (8-bit) characters, depending on how the compiler is configured. I needed it because I was getting string conversion errors. Some newer compilers (but not 2010 and older) let you just put an L in front instead (i.e. L"Deskope"). But for VS 2010 I just used the more universal TEXT() macro (which worked since Unicode was first adopted years ago). I really prefer UTF-8 characters that Linux uses, which are 8-bits for the ANSI subset of Unicode, and 16-bits for all the rest, so you do not need to worry about it...

My version uses a wider IPD offset, pushing the display "to infinity and beyond!". Well, the "beyond" part is bad because you need to diverge your eyes like Marty Feldman. But it is about 64mm or so, which is the RiftDK "standard" IPD for things place at inifinity. I actually backed off a little from that, so it would not cause problems for you, which makes the display look huge and far away, but not at infinity (for me). It all depends on your IPD. I just did it so it "looks good" for me, which meant changing the "Right Offset" value from 110 (yours) to 85 (mine). Looking at the code, that actually looks REVERSED (yours was farther apart than mine) ??? Hmmm... Was your setting requiring eye divergence? Not that I noticed. Something seems strange with those numbers...

Okay, let's actually try approaching this with numbers. The RiftDK display has square pixels and is 1280x800. 800*16/1280 = 10, so it is a 16:10 aspect ratio. The diagonal (d) measures 7-inches, so to calculate horizontal (x) and vertical (y) dimensions, we need to solve x for: y = x*10/16, and x*x + y*y = d*d. So lets simplify with a substitution:
d = 7
x*x + (x*10/16)*(x*10/16) = 49
x*x + (x*x*100/256) = 49
x*x*356/256 = 49
x*x = 49*256/356
x = sqrt(49*256/356) = 5.93 inches

So we know the screen is approximately 6-inches wide, or 3-inches per eye. Measuring my Nexus 7, it seems that the 6-inches looks accurate, but the 7-inch diagonal is only approximate. The screen centers for each eye are 3-inches apart (about 76mm), but the Rift lenses are 64mm apart, so for a 64mm IPD we need to shift the image centers 12mm inward (76 - 64). We can shift one of them 12mm (as done in this program) or each of them 6mm (which I do in my code), for the RiftDK "standard" 64mm IPD.

Some people with different IPD will need more or less image shift offset. We know that the screen is sqrt(1280*1280 + 800*800) = 1509 pixels per 7-inch diagonal, or 1509/7 = 216 PPI (pixels per inch). So a 12mm non-overlap offset would be 12mm/(25.4mm/in)*216px/in = 102 pixels. So that tells us the RiftDK "standard" non-overlap offset is 102 pixels. If we use less than 102 pixel offset, anybody with more than 64mm IPD will see things onscreen as being closer too them (not a problem), while anybody with less than 64mm (like children, females, or asian descent) will experience discomfort for distant objects that will appear beyond infinity (divergent gaze).

Your original 110 pixel offset (extra 8 pixels) gives 8px/(216pix/in)*25.4mm/in = 0.94mm (about 65mm total IPD). For a more general audience, it might be better to use a smaller offset rather than larger. I set the offset to 85 pixels, which looked good to me, and will avoid eyestrain for people with relatively small IPD.
Last edited by geekmaster on Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

3dvison wrote:Can this be used with a DIY Rift with a 5.6 1280*800 screen, and I have both a Hillcrest & a YEI 3 tracker ?
You need to modify the source code, replacing the OculusVR SDK call with something that acquires your own tracker orientation data. A small change in one little place...

The physical screen size does not matter because this does direct one-to-one pixel mapping between the Windows desktop and the Rift screen(s). You might want to increase the "Right Shift" value to make the spherical desktop appear farther away, but that is optional.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by AngelJ »

3dvison wrote:I am waiting on a Dev. Kit. Rift so I look forward to using this...Thanks Angelj for all your work in making this.
Thanks. I hope you like it.

Thanks again geekmaster for the explanation (I feel like I'm thanking you in almost every post :P ). It seems pretty clear that every Rift app should make the IPD adjustable. Now that I think about it, I think the Tuscany demo has that adjustment but my Rift felt comfortable out of the box so I ignored it.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by 3dvison »

AngelJ wrote: It seems pretty clear that every Rift app should make the IPD adjustable.
I would say IPD adjustment is the feature I am looking forward to the most after having to use my Diy Rift without IPD adjustment.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

Okay, I tweaked Deskope a bit. To not get my tweaked version mixed up with the original, I renamed it GMDeskope.

Because modern video cards let you can write to Video RAM reasonably fast, but are HORRIBLY slow when READING from VRAM, I made a change to trade less VRAM reads for more VRAM writes. With an intermediate buffer I could cut the VRAM writes in half. And with "PTZ Tweening" I could do multiple head-tracked writes for each (larger) read from VRAM.

But just doing half as many VRAM reads made a significant speed improvement, so I did not add PTZ Tweening yet.

And to satisfy a request from calebkraft (add stars to the off-screen background), I decided to add some multi-colored constellations instead. Nevermind that they look SMT solder-ready...
:D
GMDeskope.zip
Oh, and regarding that "math-heavy" post above, I noticed in the REAL code that the "Right Eye Shift" values increase the eye separation with decreasing value, not increasing. That means my smaller value of 85 looks farther away than the original value of 110. Because the Rift is focused at infinity, things feel more comfortable out where the parallax and focus are in agreement...

Enjoy running the attachment on your RiftDK. And this attachment includes source code. I will do more interesting stuff in the "unused" background areas later...

EDIT: Generating that background pattern slows down the head tracked frame updates. It was MUCH faster with that off. I will have to figure out when it is okay to NOT create all those pixels at every frame update (such as with the FoV is filled with your desktop. The reall time killer is the rand() function, and testing EVERY pixel to, and placing the background even BEHIND the desktop where you cannot see it... Even so, it is not much slower than the original. But it can be a lot faster...

EDIT2: Actually, on second thought, that GDI SetPixel() call for all those pixels is probably the real time waster. I need a test to prevent drawing "stars" that end up behind the Windows desktop where they cannot be seen. And I should be using a DIBSection for direct pixel access, instead of that aweful noob SetPixel() function... I have not messed with DIBSections for awhile (mostly SDL these days). I think I may convert this to use SDL... Or not, seeing as SDL is horribly slow on a Raspberry Pi, so I need to draw on an OpenGL texture instead...
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Last edited by geekmaster on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by 3dvison »

So with Deskope you can use your Rift for working in Windows desktop, and you no longer need to be putting your Rift on and off to look at your 2d monitor ? It does not crash any Rift programs like the Tuscany demo or HL-VR ect..?

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

3dvison wrote:So with Deskope you can use your Rift for working in Windows desktop, and you no longer need to be putting your Rift on and off to look at your 2d monitor ? It does not crash any Rift programs like the Tuscany demo or HL-VR ect..?
It is writing to the full RiftDK display, so it would interfere with anything ELSE that was also drawing to the RiftDK display.

But you could run Tuscany on your MAIN display (not the RiftDK) and then use this program with it...

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by 3dvison »

OK, So you still need your 2D monitor to get things up and running on the Rift. I was hoping to see the windows desktop on the Rift and be able to launch Rift programs with out having to take the Rift off.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

3dvison wrote:OK, So you still need your 2D monitor to get things up and running on the Rift. I was hoping to see the windows desktop on the Rift and be able to launch Rift programs with out having to take the Rift off.
It would be complicated, especially due to the fact that device drivers on modern 64-bit machines need a (non-free) digital certificate. Last I checked, driver signing costs $150 per year... The RiftDK would need a device driver that splits and duplicates the screen. And it may need to fake EDID so windows thinks it is only half-width. Like I said, complicated...

Better to just mirror a REAL display, like we are doing now...

It could be done for a 32-bit OS like XP though. Or there is already a SBS 3D desktop window manager for Linux...

This has limited use for computing. The pixels are too big. My single main 2560x1440 display stretches from WAY above me to down below my feet in my Rift, and the text is quite large. The windows could be downsampled down to lower resolution, but there are limits to that if you want readable text.

But still, with a proper GUI that is designed for low resolution, you could do some useful tasks, like checking your email or looking stuff up on Google, without removing your Rift. But "real" work will still be easier on a large LCD panel.

The point of this exercise is to demonstrate useful tradition GUI desktop examples that are accesible to VR with the Rift. You get a HUGE workspace, but only a small window into that workspace.

EDIT: I just had an interesting thought. Perhaps we could run a Mirror Video driver in a VM. Something like ZoneScreen in XP running in VirtualBox. VirtualBox supports headless (no physical monitor) installations. It is worth investigating...

@3dvision: Why not use a monitor along with your Rift? You could use a laptop PC...

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by 3dvison »

Yes you are right geekmaster.
I bet the real Dev.Kit.Rift will be much easier to lift up off my face so I can take a look at a monitor, than it is with this HeadCrab I call my Diy Rift...LOL

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by calebkraft »

Wow, that background looks really cool. I mean, you should drop it if it slows things down, but I think it is neat.

edit- yep, switched back to the 64mm version you posted before and it was much smoother.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by IsoMacintosh »

This post is off topic but i could not think of a better place.

Would it be possible to create a virtual machine that did the required warping. maybe even use the tracker as an emulated joystick.
dosbox could also be cool to recreate the early days of vr (like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0n5B3fl-bU)

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

My fork of this project is over here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=17222

I called it GMsphere to avoid confusion with Deskope. I have stopped developing GMsphere in its current form, and now I have imported the "idea" into my old substantial "pure C" code that I have written over the past decades. Much of it (most of it, in fact) is still relevant and useful to me. I plan to use a lot of it in my Rift demos and apps.

Anyway, you can look forward to some interesting variations on this "ultra-simple Windows desktop in VR" hack/theme. And I have some interesting animated backgrounds for all the "unused" space between and around all the multi-monitor "desktops" too. I have multi-monitor support working, but my goal is to also allow moving individual windows off the desktop and out onto the inside of my 360-degree spherical surround "pixel ball" VR display space.

The name of my new project will be "PixelBall". Just put on your RiftDK, climb into my "pixel ball", and let me show you something interesting like nothing you have ever seen before. Coming soon to a RiftDK near your...

And I am ESPECIALLY looking forward to seeing what new directions AngelJ takes his original version of this program.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by Ericshelpdesk »

geekmaster wrote: Why not use a monitor along with your Rift? You could use a laptop PC...
Because being able to set some arbitrary huge resolution that there is no way my laptop monitor could handle would be a huge advantage in virtual space. I don't just want the little monitor I have, I want more monitor to use!

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

Ericshelpdesk wrote:
geekmaster wrote:Why not use a monitor along with your Rift? You could use a laptop PC...
Because being able to set some arbitrary huge resolution that there is no way my laptop monitor could handle would be a huge advantage in virtual space. I don't just want the little monitor I have, I want more monitor to use!
I answered the question implied by your statement over here (because we are discussing my fork of the Deskope code in that other thread):
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 22#p120822

EDIT: You CAN (and will) have all the virtual desktop space you want, in VR, without needing a large desktop PC or laptop monitor.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by AngelJ »

I just added a new version in the original post!

Features added:
• Fixed the recursive rendering when you look at the ‘Scope’ window.
• Added a GUI, most new features involve that.
• IPD, and screen rotation speed are adjustable via sliders.
• Option to restrict cursor to an area within the field of view.
- When you look completely away from the Windows desktop this frees your mouse. Remember that in case you need to rescue your cursor.
• Button to recenter the screen.
- Wherever you’re looking when you press this becomes the center of your primary display.
• ‘On/Off’ Button to turn off the ‘Scope’ window without closing Deskope.
- This will allow other programs to make a connection with the Rift.
• Side by Side 3D Mode
- Just tell it the total width of the image. So if you’re using it for Youtube in full screen that’s just your horizontal resolution.
- Not perfect. It looks weird when you look beyond the boundaries of the SBS 3D image. But it does look good when the whole FOV is filled with the 3D image.
Last edited by AngelJ on Sat May 04, 2013 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

I like your control panel window.

I like your "Restrict Cursor" option but I think it should default of unchecked. It prevents "Recenter Screen" from moving the screen where it is really needed, if your Rift DK was at an odd angle when the program was started.

The 3D SBS mode did not work for me. Perhaps it requires a specific monitor resolution. My main monitor is 2560x1440. I tried YouTube viewing both fullscreen and in a window, and the images did not align.

It also seemed to make my mouse cursor disappear and nothing worked to bring it back, so I had to use keyboard navigations. Restricting the cursor and recentering the window did not make the mouse cursor visible. Strangely, playing with the 3D SBS mode again restored my mouse cursor, so it may be related to that code...

I like the new features. Keep up the great work.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by AngelJ »

Thanks geekmaster. You're right about the default cursor setting. I just replaced the version in the original post with one that has that setting off by default.

I don't know why the SBS mode didn't work for you. The bottom of this image was output from Deskope. I had youtube playing full screen at 1280x800 and I typed 1280 into Deskope. Does that image work on your Rift?

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

AngelJ wrote:Thanks geekmaster. You're right about the default cursor setting. I just replaced the version in the original post with one that has that setting off by default.

I don't know why the SBS mode didn't work for you. The bottom of this image was output from Deskope. I had youtube playing full screen at 1280x800 and I typed 1280 into Deskope. Does that image work on your Rift?
The problem was that activating the SBS mode shifted both eyes far out of alignment, but when there was SBS content, each eye saw two images depending On where I was looking. Adjusting the sliders did not bring them anywhere near what I needed to fuse them. My screen is 2560x1440, so perhaps that was a problem for this SBS function.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by AngelJ »

geekmaster wrote:The problem was that activating the SBS mode shifted both eyes far out of alignment, but when there was SBS content, each eye saw two images depending On where I was looking. Adjusting the sliders did not bring them anywhere near what I needed to fuse them. My screen is 2560x1440, so perhaps that was a problem for this SBS function.
When you were watching SBS video full screen did you type 2560 into Deskope? I've tried several resolutions and they've all worked fine.

By the way, this works with different resolutions on the Rift now too. Text was more legible than I expected when setting the Rift to 1920x1200.

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Re: Deskope - A Simple Windows Viewer

Post by geekmaster »

AngelJ wrote:When you were watching SBS video full screen did you type 2560 into Deskope? I've tried several resolutions and they've all worked fine.
No. I did not know I was supposed to do that. I will try it later when I get my Rift plugged in again (I need to swap out a monitor I am using)...

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by AngelJ »

I just added the newest version to the original post.

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by Leahy »

Thanks, I'm still following this thread

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by DaveNagy »

Thanks, AngelJ. I'm looking forward to trying this out when my Rift arrives, which hopefully will be within the next week or so!

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by cybereality »

Finally got to try this today. Works well.

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by AngelJ »

Thanks guys! Next on the agenda is roll support, but in the meantime I just posted a quick fix for XP and 8 compatibility.

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by fsoul123 »

Thanks for Deskope. I was looking for something like that, so I can start different demos or programs with the Oculus rift on my head all the time. But I can't make it work as I wanted. I set the Rift monitor as extended (secondary), run Deskope and I have the windows desktop in Oculus rift (ok). But if I run any game or demo, it starts in the main monitor so I can't see it in Oculus Rift. I'm doing something wrong? Is there any way to run the games fullscreeen in the same monitor as Deskope so when i quit the game I can still see the desktop in Oculus? Thanks

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by AngelJ »

That sounds like it has to do with Windows and the application you're launching. If it doesn't allow you to select which display to output to you might have to force it to output to the Rift by setting it as the primary monitor.

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by fsoul123 »

Thanks. I tried it, but then Deskope stopped working in the oculus Rift (maybe always runs on the extended monitor?)

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by AngelJ »

Hmm, I thought it should work but I haven't tested it myself.

You wouldn't want to change display settings while Deskope is open. So if it was open, try closing it and opening it again with the new display settings.

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by fsoul123 »

I tried it without luck

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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by geekmaster »

I have posted in many places that the Rift PPD was about 12 degrees. This was based on an early version of Deskope, where I adjusted the PPD define until it looked good. After reading Michael Abrash's blog again, I noticed he was saying the Rift PPD was about 14 pixels per TWO degrees (or about 7 PPD). I looked at the old Deskope code again that I modified to "feel right", and it appears that the PPD is for scaling against 180-degrees instead of 360-degrees.

So I probably need 6 PPD, if the PPD value was being used correctly. For comparison, if you figure that the Rift sees about 100-degrees per eye, and the diagonal (not clipped at the nose) is about a 700-pixel circle (or more), that calculates to about 7 PPD (what Michael Abrash was saying). So I was off by two in my 12 PPD claims. Sorry. I added EDIT comments to those posts mentioned this problem and 6 PPD was probably more accurate...

So yes, the PPD define is set to 12 in my GMsphere and pixelpi code (derived from Deskope), but that more accurately defines pixels per TWO degrees (like in Michael Abrash's blog). I need to fix that to make the code less confusing...
Last edited by geekmaster on Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Neruvous
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Re: Deskope - Work in Windows with the Rift

Post by Neruvous »

Hi! I'm Brazillian and your app it was the Best experienced with the Rift!

The movies in 3D SBS stayed better than my TV 3D and the cinema rooms than i visited \o/

A little problem , but is not particular with the app but i think is with the Rift:
-is the Headtrackin not auto centralize correctly
-In any time in the movie my neck and the body stay twisted for the left. (Like a bad night)
-I must turn off the headtracking some times

However this is a small thing, and dont't take the light of the app. He is amazing!
Thank you very much for share your work with us.

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