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 One eyed hopeful indeed... Or the Oculus without 3D vision. 
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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Instead of rendering the same image twice, could it use the entire screen to render the scene? I have amblyopia and don't see in 3D. When looking through binoculars I actually have to close my left eye. It's too distracting otherwise. So there's a good chance I'll have to do the same with the Rift.

My eyes don't get the same image but somehow my brain manages to process that. Don't ask me how... It doesn't simply eliminate one image either because when I close my left eye I do lose peripheral vision...

Maybe if I could actually offset one image so that both eyes see the same thing that would fix it?

Otherwise I'd rather have a larger FOV and twice the framerate...

If you guys need a guinea pig I'm available! ;-)

By the way, yes I did pledge for a dev kit so I guess I can always fix myself soon enough!


Last edited by MrGreen on Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:41 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Thanks for this post; I was hoping that people with different sight conditions would show up on the forum. Some people have expressed concern that vision problems may make them unable to use the Rift, but I have high hopes that the fixed-orientation personal display paradigm will be a solution to a wide range of vision problems.

Regarding the increased-FoV modification you proposed: you would have to physically remove the Rift's center divider and put in some really trippy asymmetric lenses to use the whole screen for both eyes. (I wouldn't want to pay for those lenses.) On the other hand, you could simply duplicate the same image on both eye regions in software (potentially increasing rendering speed, as you said). As a third option: the Rift features total isolation between the eyes, so you might be able to use it for experiments to see if there are rendering changes that can help you to see better with distinct images. The long term solution is a general vision diagnostic tool for non-bleeding edge types, but for now: do you code?


Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:09 pm
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Certif-Eyed!

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Simple solution- put tape over one of the lenses.

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Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:17 pm
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The pun in the title was very funny, and it must be very ironic for you to have that name.
But you might be doing other people a favor if you change the title so it describes the problem.
Might be someone missing out.

When you say rendering the same image twice, you mean you cant even watch a duplicate image without an offset in perspective?
If you are watching an image without depth information, the difference would be in how "cross-eyed" you are looking at the image, otherwize how would your eyes "know" the difference of one big image for both vs two identical smaller ones for each?
You can adjust the seperation of your eyes anyway, to accomodate the fact that our eyes dont have the same distance.
If Im correct the default is set to 65mm.

It sound to me like viewing a screen that close with both eyes in the center, you would strain your eyes alot.
It would be like looking at the tip of your nose (only a bit higher up)

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Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:17 pm
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What kind of amblyopia do you have (esotropia, exotropia, hypertropia, hypotropia) ? And how severe is it ?

Also I don't understand why using the Rift would be a problem if your brain is able to suppress the double image by itself as you said.

If you want to test your condition with something close to the Rift in terms of design and are a DIYer yourself you may have a look at this thread :
viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15247

I'm sure you'll then be able to find people able to make some renderings for you if you are not a programmer, or you could do 3D rendering with a 3D modeler (like Blender which is free). If you've got a printer you could even avoid the cost of buying the LCD display and getting only the magnifiers for a marginal cost.


Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:16 pm
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With my 3D driver I have a "mono" mode which simply displays the same image on both sides of the screen. Would this work for you? I could also add a mode that makes the left side of the screen (or the right) totally black. Would this be better?

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Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:57 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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GLPriest wrote:
Thanks for this post; I was hoping that people with different sight conditions would show up on the forum. Some people have expressed concern that vision problems may make them unable to use the Rift, but I have high hopes that the fixed-orientation personal display paradigm will be a solution to a wide range of vision problems.

Regarding the increased-FoV modification you proposed: you would have to physically remove the Rift's center divider and put in some really trippy asymmetric lenses to use the whole screen for both eyes. (I wouldn't want to pay for those lenses.) On the other hand, you could simply duplicate the same image on both eye regions in software (potentially increasing rendering speed, as you said). As a third option: the Rift features total isolation between the eyes, so you might be able to use it for experiments to see if there are rendering changes that can help you to see better with distinct images. The long term solution is a general vision diagnostic tool for non-bleeding edge types, but for now: do you code?


Yeah I do code. For a living, actually. I'm no Carmack, though. :-) The 3rd option is the one I'm hoping for.

bobv5 wrote:
Simple solution- put tape over one of the lenses.


Image

Yeah I guess... But like I said it's not like one of my eyes is useless... I do get a greater FOV from it... Anyway... If it comes down to this I'd rather have a software piece of tape that doesn't cut the framerate by 50%.... ;-)

Namielus wrote:
The pun in the title was very funny, and it must be very ironic for you to have that name.
But you might be doing other people a favor if you change the title so it describes the problem.
Might be someone missing out.

Good point. Suggestions? English isn't my first language so I can use all the help I can get. :)

Namielus wrote:
When you say rendering the same image twice, you mean you cant even watch a duplicate image without an offset in perspective?
If you are watching an image without depth information, the difference would be in how "cross-eyed" you are looking at the image, otherwize how would your eyes "know" the difference of one big image for both vs two identical smaller ones for each?
You can adjust the seperation of your eyes anyway, to accomodate the fact that our eyes dont have the same distance.
If Im correct the default is set to 65mm.

It sound to me like viewing a screen that close with both eyes in the center, you would strain your eyes alot.
It would be like looking at the tip of your nose (only a bit higher up)


I'm not sure I'm following but let's just say my eyes aren't aligned properly. It's not apparent as long as I'm looking through my dominant eye (I can switch at will) but the result is that no matter what, they both capture distinct images, or so to speak. It's hard to explain I guess...

Fredz wrote:
What kind of amblyopia do you have (esotropia, exotropia, hypertropia, hypotropia) ? And how severe is it ?

Strabismic... I guess. How severe? Well... Like I said, as long as I'm looking with my dominant eye people can't really say by looking at me but if I look with my other eye, then it's apparent. Day to day it doesn't really affect me... Well, my girlfriend gets a little nervous every time I pour wine into her glass and holds it to make sure I don't spill it on the table cloth but other than that life is peachy.

Fredz wrote:
Also I don't understand why using the Rift would be a problem if your brain is able to suppress the double image by itself as you said.

Yeah I know it's weird... It's like the isolation makes it worse. I'm fine looking normally, but looking through binoculars is awkward.

Fredz wrote:
If you want to test your condition with something close to the Rift in terms of design and are a DIYer yourself you may have a look at this thread :
viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15247

I'm sure you'll then be able to find people able to make some renderings for you if you are not a programmer, or you could do 3D rendering with a 3D modeler (like Blender which is free). If you've got a printer you could even avoid the cost of buying the LCD display and getting only the magnifiers for a marginal cost.


Yeah I saw that thread but even though I'm pretty good with code, I could probably kill myself trying to use an x-acto. ;)

Seriously I have too much work right now and December ain't that far away. But thanks for the heads up anyway. If the wait was longer, I'd definitely have a go at it.


Last edited by MrGreen on Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:46 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Theoretically using the rift should be no more difficult for you than seeing in the real world. Even though it is stereo your eyes do not have to converge like they would on a 3D tv screen, and unlike binoculars they do not have a super narrow FOV requiring your eyes to look in a parallel direction.

I suppose the stereoscopy is still a waste of computing resources in your case, but it shouldn't be distracting in any way.


Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:48 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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cybereality wrote:
With my 3D driver I have a "mono" mode which simply displays the same image on both sides of the screen. Would this work for you? I could also add a mode that makes the left side of the screen (or the right) totally black. Would this be better?


I guess I'd have to try both...

Could you offset one the images by both an X and Y value? Do you know what I mean? Like a software prism.


Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:54 pm
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MrGreen wrote:
Could you offset one the images by both an X and Y value? Do you know what I mean? Like a software prism.

That should be possible. Can't promise anything, but I will put it on the list of things to investigate.

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Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:59 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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cybereality wrote:
MrGreen wrote:
Could you offset one the images by both an X and Y value? Do you know what I mean? Like a software prism.

That should be possible. Can't promise anything, but I will put it on the list of things to investigate.


Thanks mate, that's awesome. Seriously.


Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:05 pm
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I agree with owen.

Even if you cant percieve the depth, your two eyes does get two distinct perspectives (Unless your eyes are sitting behind eachother from the exact same viewpoint). So I believe there must be other factors in play when you experience problems with binoculars etc. The focal length is obviously different, the FOV is different, maybe even the distortion.

The rift is designed to be as close to what your eyes recieve in reality as possible, so you can try to picture it as putting something very close to reality in front of your eyes. They wont know the difference if its calibrated for you personally.
You can play around with the distance between the images, and control how much your eyes have to converge.
The convergence might be the big issue here, and having one image spread across the whole screen would make it alot worse.

If you are looking at one unique image (perspective) per eye, you are looking forward like you would in reality.
If both images are the same, but one for each eye you are still looking forward and still have a high FOV but same perspective.
If one image was displayed on the entire screen, you would have to cross your eyes painfully much.
Image

Other factors can be what is problematic for you.

As for the title thread I would keep it as simple as possible, "Using Oculus Rift with impaired vision" or somethin similar.

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Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:06 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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Namielus wrote:
The rift is designed to be as close to what your eyes recieve in reality as possible, so you can try to picture it as putting something very close to reality in front of your eyes. They wont know the difference if its calibrated for you personally.


Well, ultimately, like I said I guess what I'm hoping for is a way to fix my lack of 3D vision through software. Which should be simple enough. What remains to be seen is how my brain will deal with that...

And hey! My teeth don't look like that at all!


Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:47 pm
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Im curious to know the result here. Who knows, if you can align the image correctly and optimize it for your "lazy eye"
maybe you could even see some improvement over what you see in reality.

In some cases atleast I think people will benefit from having complete control of what position, angles , distortions and perspectives they feed to their eyes.

PS: Lol, I wasnt trying to imitate you, just illustrate how much a person has to cross his/her eyes to look at the center of an image spread across the whole screen. Sorry about that.

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Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:58 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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Namielus wrote:
Im curious to know the result here. Who knows, if you can align the image correctly and optimize it for your "lazy eye"
maybe you could even see some improvement over what you see in reality.

In some cases atleast I think people will benefit from having complete control of what position, angles , distortions and perspectives they feed to their eyes.

Ding! My hopes exactly!

Namielus wrote:
PS: Lol, I wasnt trying to imitate you, just illustrate how much a person has to cross his/her eyes to look at the center of an image spread across the whole screen. Sorry about that.


I know don't worry. :)


Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:04 pm
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By the way, did you hear about this book :
http://www.fixingmygaze.com/


Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:40 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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Fredz wrote:
By the way, did you hear about this book :
http://www.fixingmygaze.com/

Never heard of it. Ordered!

Thanks!


Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:47 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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I received an answer to a question about my f'd up eyes I had submitted through the Kickstarter page:

Oculus wrote:
We are looking into independent eye adjustments for people in your scenario, and I think there is a pretty high chance you will get something working. :) Thanks for your support!


How awesome is this? So awesome!


Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:33 pm
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Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)

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Took forever to answer all the questions, we had over 2,000 messages from over 1,300 individual people!

It is something we want to build in, but need to hide pretty deeply in the UI, lest people find it and mess with it when they should not. Some people have really, REALLY screwed up eyes, so we are also looking into having a mode where it just makes one of the eyes into a big blur of match light/color/movement. That way, they still get some sense of immersion, and their bad eye does not strain itself trying to see the virtual world.


Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:54 pm
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It seems you guys already have cyclop test subjects? ;)

If you ever need one more I'd be more than happy to help.


Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:14 am
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