Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

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PatimPatam
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by PatimPatam »

Hi there, really excited about this project and all the recent news! Can't wait to get my hands on the detailed open hardware documentation, but i couldn't help starting to speculate with the information that we have at the moment..

I don't want to sound too picky but even though 90º horizontal FOV is a massive improvement over other consumer HMDs around it still sounds a bit far from what the human eye can actually perceive, which is aprox 170º: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_field (normal limits)

Palmer I suppose you have already thought about this (and maybe the 2013 model will use something like it) but, would a 2 screen model be technically possible? something similar to the following?

Image

FOV (per eye):

Horiz_Out + Horiz_In / Vert_Up + Vert_Down (Horiz_Total / Vert_Total)

-> 45 + 45 / 55 + 55 ( 90 / 110) - Oculus Rift
-> 90 + 45 / 55 + 65 (135 / 120) - 2 Screen Version
->110 + 60 / 60 + 75 (170 / 135) - Human Eye

[NOTE 1: as i already mentioned, schematics and detailed FOV values of the Rift are mere speculation on my part!]
[NOTE 2: Vert FOV not properly calculated, rough guess - screen closer to the eye, also maybe the screens/optics could be not centered or slightly tilted so Vert_Down > Vert_Up]

I think this could be tested quite easily with 2 of the current 6'' screens, but that would make the HMD very wide.. so it would probably be better with a couple of 4'' or 5''. Now the thing I really don't know is would you be able to integrate optics that work from this close and with these wide angles?

I'm a software engineer, not an expert in optics or electronics, so if all I said doesn't make sense please forgive me :-P

If it does make some sense.. any thoughts? Could the 2013 Oculus have a horizontal FOV > 90º using 2 screens, something closer to 140º?

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by zalo »

I'm not an expert in optics either, but from what I can see, you're going to have serious focusing issues across the display (ie the left side is in focus and the edge is a blurry mess or visa versa.)

Additionally, your eyes will have a tougher time converging on the slanted images. Granted, good enough software distortion may solve that, but it could be more trouble than it's worth in FoV gains.

You might as well just move the whole thing closer to your eyeballs than mess with a funky slant.
(Resolution is a big issue in both of these scenarios by the way)

Also, welcome!

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by spyro »

@PatimPatam, Zalo:

Maybe we need just one these new flexible (IGZO-)OLEDs from Sharp:

Image

"Sharp has also unveiled a 3.4” flexible OLED. Unlike most flexible OLED panels produced to date, Sharp has managed to create a flexible OLED panel with extremely high resolution. With its 540x960 pixels it has the same high 326 ppi density as the 13.5 inch panel – or similar to Apple’s iPhone 4S."
(http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?su ... 1338806425):

+ With 326 ppi, you would get 1080p already at 5.89"
+ Very high contrast
+ Fast switching
+ low power consumption
+ can be bent into a curve (or even a spherical cut) to be your field of vision (of course you will still need optics to focus this near)

Samsung also has plans to sell flexible OLED displays "in 2012":

Image

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsIjfy8g ... r_embedded

EDIT: You could use shutter technology combined with this. So the whole curved screen would show only the picture for one eye at any given time while the other eye is shaded of by an one-pixel-LCD (with an attached lense so you can focus this near). OLEDs can be updated with very high frequency, say 240 Hz or even more so there should be no flickering at all. The ambient light is obscured and we are very close to the eyes, so brightness should be no problem either.


spyro
Last edited by spyro on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:27 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by PatimPatam »

@spyro

Yes I heard about these, it sure looks like a perfect match for VR down the line! However maybe the 2 flat screen could be an option for the near future? (and you could probably get almost double the resolution than with a single display on top of more FOV)

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by zalo »

While that tv is really cool, I think you guys might be underestimating the difficulty of the optics. Chances are that you'd need a custom lens with the proper curvature to match the screen. A bent fresnel lens would just ruin the resolution gains of the screen itself. Also, lenses aren't cheap when they are done properly. After some minimal research, I've discovered that fire polished aspheric (semi distortion corrected) custom lenses run for about £350 for a test. Double that if you want two. And good luck getting them to get it to focus differently horizontally and vertically.

I don't see why you can't just bring the whole screen assembly closer to your eyes if you have the resolution to spare. That way you could use semi-normal lenses.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by FingerFlinger »

Well, if we are able to get a physical screen to actually fill up the FOV, then couldn't specialized contacts take care of the focusing issue? This way the optics will not cause any complex distortion, although the perspective would still be a bit wonky with the screen so close.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by rajveer »

JC tweeted:

"Had a great visit with Abrash and crew at Valve yesterday to talk VR/AR -- nice to meet some people I only knew from twitter!"

Interesting :)

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by PatimPatam »

zalo wrote:I don't see why you can't just bring the whole screen assembly closer to your eyes if you have the resolution to spare. That way you could use semi-normal lenses.
Well simple geometry, no matter how close you bring it to the eyes, if its only one screen and it's perpendicular to the vision "line" you will never be able to have a 90º Horiz_Out FOV, unless the screen size is infinite :-)

Edit: sorry for being a smartass :-P

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by zalo »

Oops, you're right. :(

I see now how we could hit a wall at this rate.
I also see now that (curved screen or not) curved lenses are unavoidable.

They are ultimately what covers the eye, and they are capable of making regular old flat displays curved.

Contact lenses are interesting, but it's hard to correct for their distortion without tracking the eye (also, when you take the HMD off, it's not going to be fun).

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Endothermic »

FingerFlinger wrote:then couldn't specialized contacts take care of the focusing issue?
I don't know about other people but I wouldn't want to haveto wear contacts to use an HMD no matter how good it was.

Though i'd gladly have surgery to have a hole stuck in the back of my head so I could jack into the matrix.... I just wouldn't want to put lil lenses on my eyes :? guess i'm just weird....

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by lnrrgb »

Open your mind....you already have that jack - there is no spoon!

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by German »

Endothermic wrote:I just wouldn't want to put lil lenses on my eyes :? guess i'm just weird....
I physically can't wear contacts. I tried them for three weeks at up to 8 hours a day and my eyes just wouldn't get used to them. Thankfully, I have a very weak prescription so I'll be able to use the Oculus Rift without glasses just fine.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Vaughanabe13 »

Endothermic wrote:
FingerFlinger wrote:then couldn't specialized contacts take care of the focusing issue?
I don't know about other people but I wouldn't want to haveto wear contacts to use an HMD no matter how good it was.

Though i'd gladly have surgery to have a hole stuck in the back of my head so I could jack into the matrix.... I just wouldn't want to put lil lenses on my eyes :? guess i'm just weird....
Joke's on you - you're actually in the matrix already and your real head already has a hole.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by FingerFlinger »

I've never worn contacts, but I'd be willing to try if it provided the best experience!

@Zalo, what kind of distortion are you talking about with respect to contact lenses? My thought was that using contacts would remove most of that problem since the center of the lens is always centered on the user's eye. (Unless I am totally wrong about how contact lenses work; I don't wear them.) If this is the case, then one would only need to correct for perspective and the shape of the screen, curved or spherical or whatever.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by zalo »

Hah, I don't wear them either, but it's my understanding that they move with your eyes so the center of your eyeball is always at the focus sweet spot.

The eyes aren't perfectly round either. Try closing your eyes and looking around with your fingers on your eyelids. You can feel your eyes' shapes changing.

It could be another example of "more trouble than it's worth".

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by EdZ »

If the issue with wide non-curved displays is that the eye has to refocus between the centre and the edge, then contact lenses would not help. The correction factor would be constant across the display, whereas you would need the correction to vary as your gaze moved over the disay. This could be solved by fixed custom lenses (expensive), curved displays (also expensive, and possibly also needing custom optics anyway due to a non-flat focal plane), or by moving the display far enough from the eye (i.e. a larger panel) so that the diference in focal distance is small enough that eye strain is reduced to acceptable levels (results in a large and bulky display).

Custom optics are really the solution, but unless you're ordering huge production runs the cost is very high. If the RIFT is a huge success, the RIFT successor (or the successor's successor) may be have enough clout to order custom optical elements along with custom controller circuitry for exotic displays. But the trade-off would be an increase in production cost.
As always; you can have cheap, comfortable or high-quality, but only two at once.

Then again, none of us have even seen the high-FOV RIFT variant. It may be that the eye strain issues are minimal for most users and that custom lenses are unnecessary.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by WiredEarp »

I actually raised this limitation of flat screens in a thread called 'Displaying a FULL FOV impossible with 'flat' optics?', but we never got far in discussing it. I personally dont think any single flat screen will be feasible for full immersion. Probably a tridef type setup (3 screens) with a custom optic that basically acted to focus all 3 lenses (something like pisight but more of a single progressive 'dream' lens) will be the most likely ultra high FOV candidate in the near future. I think with the right ?genius? lens designer something like that could work. Anyone see the rear view mirror recently done by some guy that made it have high FOV but low distortion, by basically breaking the mirror down into pixels and designing it so each pixel reflected slightly differently?

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2012/ ... lind-spot/

I think once big companies realise that VR is going to be a hit and worth lots of money, top level optic designers will be involved, and then we will finally start to get the true Retina displays. Ones where we cannot determine just by looking around that we are in a VR.

One day, we may need to develop tests to easily determine if we are in a simulation or reality. Inception anyone? ;-)

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by PatimPatam »

Thanks a lot for the explanation EdZ, it does make sense. I understand that having 2 displays would make the cost go up, but if the fancy optics that you mention are not really necessary then maybe it could still be within an acceptable range.

I think it would be interesting to know what is Palmer's point of view in all this.

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Post by Endothermic »

WiredEarp wrote:I think once big companies realise that VR is going to be a hit and worth lots of money, top level optic designers will be involved, and then we will finally start to get the true Retina displays
Maybe its just optimistic or bias but I think the RIFT could be the begining of the 6th wave, most people think it will be about efficiency but I can really see it being VR. If it is then this will certainly happen.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by EdZ »

The expense of custom optics is not so much the design of the optics, but the manufacture. Precision grinding of glass to anythjng other than a basic spherical or parabolic surface doesn't scale too well; either you make a few by hand at a high cost, or a customised production line is needed and economics of scale kick in only with production runs of several hundred thousand.
Probably a tridef type setup (3 screens) with a custom optic that basically acted to focus all 3 lenses (something like pisight but more of a single progressive 'dream' lens) will be the most likely ultra high FOV candidate in the near future. I think with the right ?genius? lens designer something like that could work
The Sensics PiSight uses an array of 8 displays per eye along with a compound lens array to create a large FOV. However, the sublenses emselves appear to be fairly basic convex lenses. It may be cheaper to cut up and align small mass-produced lenses than to produce a single custom lens.

How about this: three displays per eye, side-by-side in portrait orientation. Each eye has a 3 sub-lens array of three basic lenses with the edges ground off to align them correctly. It would minimise side-to-side variation in focal distance, at the expense of up-and-down variation (less glancing is done in this axis, and it would be no worse than a single screen). The major issues above the custom lens arrays would be the cost of multiple driver boards, the requirement that the displays be gen-locked to stay in sync, and the alignment of the sub-lenses and displays in the housing.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by WiredEarp »

economics of scale kick in only with production runs of several hundred thousand.
Thats exactly what i'm talking about. When those economics of scale kick in, things like a single integrated lens to do what you are talking about will become possible, and will eliminate other issues, such as the sublens alignment you mentioned.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by sambeckett »

What do you guys think of Ouya? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouy ... me-console

3 million in less then 2 days on kickstarter. Great price point, great value.

If Rift can get as much publicity and show great value at a low price point who knows what could happen! I am hoping you get the same success!

Overnight Microsoft and Sony woke up with a new console competitor, Google with android. The world is changing, and maybe HMD will finally become main stream because of Oculus!! Lets dream.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by EdZ »

Definitely. If you can guarantee you're going to be ordering super-vast quantities of the same thing, the only barrier to entry is the few-hundred-thousand/million-or-so up-front cost to start up production.

This is for glass lenses. A compromise option could be plastic lenses, but they have a few disadvantages: Less durable, susceptible to heat warping (both temporary and permanent) and cold embrittlement, inferior optical qualities, and poor quality control. By his I mean that injection moulding, the cheapest method of production, would have nigh-unacceptable variances between batches, or even items in a batch, necessitating 100% testing and either a very poor pass:reject ratio or post-mould finishing.

The current single COTS lens design the RIFT is using really is the dramatically cheapest route until a dramatic increase in production volume, or a change in lens production techniques.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by defactoman »

Gamespy article (That actually names Palmer) about the kickstarter campaign for the "Rift". http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/122/1225382p1.html

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Post by cybereality »

defactoman wrote:Gamespy article (That actually names Palmer) about the kickstarter campaign for the "Rift". http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/122/1225382p1.html
Really happy to read all the positive comments. The public is genuinely stoked about this project.

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Post by Endothermic »

I just don't get all the negative posts but I guess thats the problem with the internet since ppl just splurt out garbage when they don't even know what they are saying.

Comparing RIFT to the Google Glasses... they really have no idea what the Google Glasses actually do and or the RIFT.

"3D is also gimmicky bullshit and a waste of money" ok he obviously dislikes 3D for some reason and thinks the RIFT is just another 3D display and has no idea about immersion or what VR really is.

"Carmack has no shame. 500 dollars for a "virtual reality" thing that will launch with a new version of the not so great game that was Doom 3. Yes i will most definitely not be buying it.

Instead of making games he pulls this kind of crap. I just can't stand the guy anymore."

Okay he obviously can't read or understand that its not Carmack making or selling the RIFT your just going to happen to get DOOM 3 with it (which I actually thought was a great game anyone once you got hte flashlight mod :s) which Carmack is writing to make proper use of the device.

Seriously you should need to get a licence or something to post on the internet so that you have to learn to be able to read and understand what your reading and actually know something about what your going to say before your allowed to say anything :?

It's negative crap like these morons that could really derail something like the RIFT if enoguh ppl see it and spread it since the human race has a tendancy to prefer the negative over the positive (seriously how often do you see something good on the news as opposed to bad :?) so before you know it this kind of incorrect uninformed nonsence being said spreads and its all anyone takes notice of ignoring anything good said (since anything good about it is obviously just propaganda from the ppl making it to try and get you to buy it right!).

Thankyfully though the RIFT got a fair bit of media coverage in before these idiots had a chance to say crap like that so I don't think it will be able to tarnish it in that way.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by coresnake »

Yeah I tried to get some people on some other forums interested in it and the average reply was 'kickstarter? enjoy paying for something not invented yet', 'doom3.. yeh what a great deal', and other such moronic crap. Even though among them were people who shelled out $800 for the HMZ-T1, a vastly inferior product.

Anyway, I just hope this Ouya thing doesn't steal all of Palmer's thunder.

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by android78 »

More great press here:
http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3226063
Seems that the standard response when people try the Rift on is "WOW". I wonder if this will beat the more then $2m in a day that OUYA did (and still climbing).

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Post by QuasiSteve »

I doubt the OUYA would steal the Rift's thunder at the game conventions given that they're two rather disparate technologies. Of course if you could use the Rift with the OUYA (and there's no reason it couldn't as long as the latter can output the desired split frame+distortion), that would be nice.

It won't steal thunder at KickStarter because although OUYA is currently soaring ($3.9M, average of ~$500/minute and probably back up to $1200/minute when more of the U.S. is awake), it has been wisely limited by its Creators at about $5.3M through the use of limited pledge levels - after that it's just the $10 and $25 tiers.

I say wisely because otherwise they might have had to pull something like the Pebble project did - get KickStarter to intervene and artificially place limits on rewards after they had already been pledged on - to stem off purported supply/manufacturing/stocking/shipping issues.

Actually checked in to see comments on the recent media buzz - still lots of "Carmack's HMD" floating around and referring to the device as the "Oculus". Ahh, the media :|

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Post by German »

QuasiSteve wrote:it has been wisely limited by its Creators at about $5.3M through the use of limited pledge levels
Untrue, they have been steadily raising the pledge levels as the pledges get near the current max. They originally started with 5000 units and are now up to 80000.

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Post by lnrrgb »

"Seriously you should need to get a licence or something to post on the internet so that you have to learn to be able to read and understand what your reading and actually know something about what your going to say before your allowed to say anything"


I suggest we encrypt the whole forum - let me decide who I want to read - let us decide who gets read by perhaps unencrypting those who are real, contributing, and getting read by more than a few of us. Seems like it would end spam eventually, if it caught on. Encrypt it all! Moderators wouldn't have to constantly sweep away BS, nor would they "accidentally" wipe away posts that someone spent time thoughtfully thinking about how to wittily make a point. Encrypt it all, and save us all time, and heartache. I got this idea from Nolan Bushnell. I think he is on to something. Anyone else?

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Post by Vaughanabe13 »

"Seriously you should need to get a licence or something to post on the internet so that you have to learn to be able to read and understand what your reading and actually know something about what your going to say before your allowed to say anything"

I find this ironic, considering the sentence is riddled with grammar mistakes. So if you remove that from the list of criteria, your point is basically "I don't like when people disagree with me". Preventing them from posting on the internet is not going to change their opinions.

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Post by brantlew »

android78 wrote:More great press here:
http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3226063
Seems that the standard response when people try the Rift on is "WOW".
Yeah, we've all heard Carmack talk a lot about this but not as much about the experience from the few dozen people who have tried it for the first time. I think it's worth quoting.
It's hard to convey in words the sensation of Carmack's foray into the world of HMD gaming. Ultimately, as rudimentary as his prototype was, it still worked quite well, and having no other peripheral light sensations piercing the casing helped me transport into the testbed world of Doom III.

Initially it does look quite low-res, but as John points out, this is something that will likely change before any such device with his stamp on it even makes it to market. What was most impressive though was the smooth frame-rate and responsiveness to head movement.

I started out using my thumb on the controller to move the camera, but once I realised my head could do the majority of that, it became far more natural to just move in the game-world as I would in real-life. This sensation was furthered when I started to physically react to fireballs being hurled at me from Imps. I began crouching and stiffeing up and I'm not afraid to admit my heart-rate went up as well.

A few minutes into my eyes-in session and I was moving about the game-space like a pro, peeking in and around corners and eating up the virtual 3D world around me as if I were actually there. Obviously the testbed was not nearly as challenging as the actual Doom III game, but it gave great insight into how this technology, specifically for shooters, can work. And again, the only major issue I had was in the overall resolution. It's also important to point out, for all the FPS keyboard and mouse warriors out there, twitch play with head movement coupled with controller in-hand was just as precise and far more engaging. If this technology goes mass market, honestly it's the only way I'd ever want to play a first-person shooter.
I can't wait to try it out at QuakeCon. :D Anyone else planning on going?
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by mysticeti »

I can remember physically trying to duck the fireballs thrown by imps in Doom I/II and that was pretty freakin' low res.

Despite the huge increases in 3D graphics over the years I've never, ever felt the need to duck since then.

I fully expect to crap my drawers when I'm immersed in a world rendered through the Oculus Rift. At least for the first few games. :)

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Post by QuasiSteve »

German wrote:Untrue, they have been steadily raising the pledge levels as the pledges get near the current max. They originally started with 5000 units and are now up to 80000.
Hah - yeah, I noticed they bumped things up.. sneaky buggers. So much for the immutability of pledge levels once a pledge has been placed :)
So, correction: $8,832,500 .. until they bump things up again. :x

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Post by android78 »

@Endothermic - regarding the negative comments.
I'm actually quite surprised at how overwhelmingly positive the reaction to this has been. I don't think I've see a single 'bad' review from those who have tried it out, and there seem to be at least as many positive comments on the articles I've read, compared to the negatives. This compares to what seemed to be about 90% negative responses to any article that mentioned 3D (mostly referring to TVs or movies) a couple of years ago.
It's too early to say for certain, but I can see the Rift being a big hit in kickstarter, just based on Carmacks word alone... With the positive press, I think that Palmer should brace for more orders then he expects.
We've all been waiting far too long for a decent VR experience. I'm not the only one who grew up in the 80's when the promise seemed that we would all be spending hours a day in full body VR suits by the year 2000, only to be left a couple of steps ahead of where we were in the 80's and the year is 2012!

Endothermic
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Endothermic »

Vaughanabe13 wrote:I find this ironic, considering the sentence is riddled with grammar mistakes. So if you remove that from the list of criteria, your point is basically "I don't like when people disagree with me". Preventing them from posting on the internet is not going to change their opinions.
No thats nothing to do with my point. I never said anything about grammar all I talked about was knowing what it is your talking about before you say something, which has nothing to do with disagreeing with me.

One person was talking about "Google Glasses, its a start". What do Google Glasses have to do with the RIFT? They are completely different and have nothing to do with each other. Some idiot might read that and think the RIFT is just another "Google Glasses" and they've seen the Google Glasses and have no interest or use for that kind of thing so think the RIFT is another useless thing they'll have no interest in and proceed to tell their friends that and so on and so on.

The other guy saying he was an ID fan but wont buy their products again (hello RIFT isn't an ID product and even said so in the article) and that "3D is also gimmicky bullshit and a waste of money". He obviously didn't read all the article or was just unable to take in from it that the RIFT isn't a 3D display (as in thats it's main selling point, what it primarily is). Sure it displays 3D but from that comment if you just read that and not the article you would think the RIFT is just a 3D TV you stick on your head and nothing more (like the sony) when that's not at all what the RIFT is, you could have it without 3D and it would still be pretty much the same thing because 3D isn't one of the major points about it.

Other people might read stuff like that and just get the idea that like with the Google Glasses post that the RIFT is nothing more then another Sony 3D head display and well they don't like 3D and/or that Sony HMD and think its a waste of money just like him and again then proceed to tell everyone they know how RIFT is just a stupid waste of money 3D head display thats good for nothing else other then 3D.

Nothing in there has anything to do with disagreeing with me or poor grammar it is just incorrect statements made about the device based on them either not reading the whole article or just not being able to understand from it what the RIFT actually is and then bothering to find out the facts about it before posting.

They splurt out this incorrect stuff that other people may look at the article and get this idea about what it is thats completely different from what it actually is and since they don't have an interest in what they think it is they never bother to learn about the product and proceeed to spread these incorrect statements which probably get chinese whisper sydrome added to them in the end as well.

Take for example the flase perception that sometime in the future we'll have faster then light no latency internet because of Quantum Entanglement. QE can only have at best the same latency as light in a vacuum but some idiot reading about QE saw the words "instant" and "transfer" mention so then either not reading the whole thing or after reading it and not being able to understand it came to the assume that QE can instantly transfer information from one place to another and proceeded to say that when ppl talked about latency or internet speeds and now the majority of your average joe that has head of QE thinks it will some enable instant communication from one place to another when it can not.

If the people that first start spurting around that QE will enable instant FTL communication actually knew what they were talking about before they said it or checked their assumptions first then the majority of people wouldn't have this completely incorrect idea about QE and that it can enable faster then light data speeds when it can not.

That's what my point was.
Last edited by Endothermic on Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

German
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by German »

Endothermic wrote:QE can only have at best the same latency as light in a vacuum
I think they know more than you do...
Wikipedia wrote:Experimental results have demonstrated that effects due to entanglement travel at least thousands of times faster than the speed of light,[23][24] and that when measurements of the entangled particles are made in moving, relativistic reference frames in which each respective measurement occurs before the other, the measurement results remain correlated.[25][26]

Endothermic
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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Endothermic »

German wrote:I think they know more than you do...
Perhaps you need to read more on QE.

Information/Data is not sent faster then light with QE. A Quantum State is instantly transfered from one particle to the other. A Quantum State however is not usefull information or data, you can not do anything with it unless you know about what the people that were sending it did (which you have to call, email or pigeon that information).

Once they have that information they can then get information out of the entangled particle but without that additional information that needs to be sent at light speed they can not do anything with the information in the entangled particle.

http://www.aip.org/png/html/teleport.htm
"Also, quantum teleportation does not allow for faster-than-light communication."

http://news.discovery.com/tech/teleport ... anics.html
"Entangled information arrives faster than the speed of light, but to read it scientists would need a key to decode the information, which would arrive using traditional communication at slower-than-light speeds."

http://www.fisica.net/teletransporte/ex ... charya.pdf
"Also quantum teleportation does not allow for faster than light communication, although the teleported particle attains the polarization value instantly."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/19 ... 062803.htm
"This does not mean that faster-than-light information transfer has occurred."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -with-ions
"Conventional (nonquantum) communication channels relay information"

or if you prefer your Wikipedia friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation
"however it does not immediately transmit classical information, and therefore cannot be used for communication at superluminal (faster than light) speed."

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Re: Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

Post by Alkapwn »

Vaughanabe13 wrote:"Seriously you should need to get a licence or something to post on the internet so that you have to learn to be able to read and understand what your reading and actually know something about what your going to say before your allowed to say anything"

I find this ironic, considering the sentence is riddled with grammar mistakes. So if you remove that from the list of criteria, your point is basically "I don't like when people disagree with me". Preventing them from posting on the internet is not going to change their opinions.
I find it funny that you literally made your post an example of exactly what he was talking about. Also that people get so worked up on forums. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading Xbox Live transcripts.

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