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 Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter 
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One Eyed Hopeful

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anon84 wrote:
what about this one? the mouth may need tweaking a bit

I think it misses what the other has. Image is that vacant, slack-jawed awe. The edit is more of an 'ooo' or 'wow'. All these edits detract because this one is already perfect.


Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:13 pm
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How does this one work?
Image


Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:31 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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MichaelH wrote:
anon84 wrote:
what about this one? the mouth may need tweaking a bit

I think it misses what the other has. Image is that vacant, slack-jawed awe. The edit is more of an 'ooo' or 'wow'. All these edits detract because this one is already perfect.


but that will never be approved as a stock forum icon because of the politically correct crowd. it needs some of the yellow head sticking out from the top, to prevent the black rift looking like hitler's hair

hey don't blame me I thought it was great and never even saw hitler in it until someone mentioned it.


Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:51 pm
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anon84 wrote:
MichaelH wrote:
anon84 wrote:
what about this one? the mouth may need tweaking a bit

I think it misses what the other has. Image is that vacant, slack-jawed awe. The edit is more of an 'ooo' or 'wow'. All these edits detract because this one is already perfect.


but that will never be approved as a stock forum icon because of the politically correct crowd. it needs some of the yellow head sticking out from the top, to prevent the black rift looking like hitler's hair

hey don't blame me I thought it was great and never even saw hitler in it until someone mentioned it.

Ooooh, now that you have explained it, I can see hitler in it too. Funny thing.


Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:55 pm
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oh no, sorry if I ruined it for you , because for me , once I saw hitler I could not stop seeing him :)

final attempt tried to add more slack-jaw :) looked like a difference zoomed in but the change is practicaly invisible, oh well


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Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:17 pm
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Mystify wrote:
How does this one work?
Image

This one's my favorite so far.


Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:57 am
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anon84 wrote:
oh no, sorry if I ruined it for you , because for me , once I saw hitler I could not stop seeing him :)

final attempt tried to add more slack-jaw :) looked like a difference zoomed in but the change is practicaly invisible, oh well

first one I don't see hitler in :) looks good too

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Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:46 am
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brantlew, dycus, cyber or palmer can u add a youtube avatar on the oculus channel? because it looks weird without it.

cheers :D

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Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:33 am
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I really don't see how the whole hitler thing has anything to do with how 'politically correct' you are.

The pixels just happen to look like a certain Austrian dictator.

I think the one with teeth helps, it stops the mouth looking like a mustache so much.


Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:25 am
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Dycus wrote:
Mystify wrote:
How does this one work?
Image
This one's my favorite so far.
works for me.


Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:07 pm
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After seeing the latest Hydra + Rift demo in Tuscany, this idea popped into my head. Someone needs to make a mountain climbing simulator that utilizes both the Rift and the Hydra. Being able to grab on ledges to pull yourself higher and higher, seeing your hands, combined with the immersion and feeling of vertigo and high places that the Rift can give you (don't look down!) especially with the higher res consumer version, would be intense.


Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:39 pm
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Orkel, Im actually working on a vertical treadmill with climbing holds exactly for that purpose.

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Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:41 pm
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Namielus wrote:
Orkel, Im actually working on a vertical treadmill with climbing holds exactly for that purpose.


You mean like a full scale VR arcade thingy? Sounds fun!


Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:44 pm
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yep! its not really going to be that expensive, and possible to build for yourself.
Well thats what I am hoping

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And off in the distance, a quiet echo-prone version of the 'price is right' song should be playing.


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Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:23 pm
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Image

My very first version of a DIY Rift was at GDC, happened to end up at the Oculus booth while some friends of mine tried the real thing, and being photographed along with an actual Rift dev-kit.

Its mind blowing to think that Palmer Luckey actually wore my first DIY'er on his head, and tried ATS with it.
I wonder what he was thinking.

I was not there myself, I have not tried the final dev-kit version so I don't know how much worse my DIY'er is in terms of performance.
What I do know tho, is that its much heavier and more uncomfortable.

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Namielus wrote:
Orkel, Im actually working on a vertical treadmill with climbing holds exactly for that purpose.


Oh man, that sounds crazy cool ! In my mind I envision something like this...

Image

A few thoughts:

- I guess you have to figure out a way to accurately track the climb points, project them into VR, and model them accurately to have any chance of being able to grab them

- I can't imagine this without some sort of data glove for visual feedback

- A programmable treadmill would be awesome if it could start and stop based on your movement

- A programmable fan could really add to the excitment!

A lot of stuff to solve, but oh man that would be a scary and incredible sensation to climb hundreds of feet up a cliff. What a killer way to workout! Between VR running treadmills, VR stationary bikes, VR rowing machines, and now VR wall climbers you could set up the funnest gym in the world. :D


Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:32 pm
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That's why the mountain climbing music had to have an echo. It's being carried there by a simulated wind. And a huge space.

You look around in the VR HMD, it's this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX6xkcHHXYY

Or get a harness and simulate this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaMTSOI1Zk4

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Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:56 pm
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Brantlew, let me try to adress these issues.
I will publish some more elaborate renderings and concept ideas later. I have some very spesific ideas on what type of game to use this in.

Programmable treadwall -
Yea it would be cool to have a powerful and precise enough motor to slow down, speed up, start and stop
according to the players position. The problem seems to me, to be the same as mechanical ODT's.
You can feel them tug and pull when they change direction. - And its complex and expensive.

Instead, as a start for the proof of concept I thought I would rather create the gameplay around a steady moving "treadwall"
It moves slowly, you have something chasing you and some avatar climbing ahead of you.

If some zombies or flames are coming after you, it will force you to keep climbing and the avatar will slow you down enough so you dont actually reach the top.

You would still need to know the position of the player I guess, but its simpler to achieve.
Using potentiometers or equivalent on the treadwall itself, means you can pretty accurately match the climbing holds to the equivalent in the game. Or ladder steps.

When it comes to position of the hand, I dont actually think you need to track finger movement. When you climb you dont need to look at your hands. The game just needs to know exactly where they are. So something like hydras modified into a glove solution should do the trick.

However, I did find a usb potentiometer interface that supports 6 potentiometers and connects them to joystick axis.

http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/prod ... eters.html heres the product

I would really like to try to build some crude finger tracking that way in combination with hydras.

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Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:22 pm
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now I am imagining a setup such that the handholds can be automatically removed and placed to form any arbitrary combination of handholds


Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:42 pm
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highly geared systems with strong stepper motors may be a way to minimize the feeling of motion. to pull that off, the treadmill would have to be a good 12 feet high. maybe 10 wide, as our reach is generally the same as our height.

The backside would have a system that removes and adds handgrips, footholds, and so on. The terrain always changes, that way.

Any residual rumble and motional cues could be hidden in the rumblings of a volcano caldera (using bass thumpers), which is what you are climbing out of in the VR environment.

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Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:46 pm
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I designed a sliding mechanism and holds that rotate. You will never grab the underneath of a hold the same way you grab the top. So if the shape is non-uniform you can just have it rotate 90degrees everytime it passes a certain point.

But for a proof of concept I would rather have it simpler and repeating patterns. Even just ladder steps would make this an insanely scary experience.

My game idea involves a wall, a window - a ledge outside the window and the climbing wall with ladder steps.
The game revolves around fighting off zombies on one floor, fire catching up to the room forcing you out of the window, onto the ledge and shimmy across to the ladder and climbing to the next floor.

Its much easier to describe this if I am on a computer with 3d-modelling software and rendering software so I can make graphics.
But just try to imagine the fear of slowly moving sideways on a ledge believing there is 30 feet to the ground below and having to mount a ladder while fighting off zombies.

Its much simpler to achieve this, and its really the only thing remotely feasible for me to pull off alone.


PS:

there should be a cushion above you, that way if you get your head too high you push it into a cushion also known as your teammates ass. hahahah

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Namielus wrote:
there should be a cushion above you, that way if you get your head too high you push it into a cushion also known as your teammates ass. hahahah


And below you. Even though you are only a couple feet off the ground this is probably really dangerous because your knees and ankles would not be prepared for the impact. Your body would be prepared for free fall and then this crazy force field would smash into your legs :lol:


Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:56 pm
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This is the earliest concept I made, and its from one of the very first posts I ever made on this forum.
Really crude and not even rendered nicely. I promise to publish some much better concept renderings once
I catch a breath on my cinema/lounge project.
I think this kind of gaming experience would be insane.

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Diorama wrote:
I really don't see how the whole hitler thing has anything to do with how 'politically correct' you are.

The pixels just happen to look like a certain Austrian dictator.

I think the one with teeth helps, it stops the mouth looking like a mustache so much.


I got bored and decided to help try and fix the smilely. My conclusion: What says VR like a VR glove?

This should help fix all this Hitler confusion!


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Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:22 pm
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trololol :P

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Namielus what is the point behind closing the window? The player is on a ledge, you can just shut it in VR, no need to really close it.

@DarkAkuma :lol:

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Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:53 am
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Gerald, its the simple fact that you may fall sideways and smash your head against the window frame from a heightened position.
Also you can use the technique to have multiple windows across and vary the entrance window in game.

If theres an actual hole there when you are leaning against it you will simply fall through it.

Better renderings will illustrate the need for this better

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DarkAkuma wrote:
Diorama wrote:
I really don't see how the whole hitler thing has anything to do with how 'politically correct' you are.

The pixels just happen to look like a certain Austrian dictator.

I think the one with teeth helps, it stops the mouth looking like a mustache so much.


I got bored and decided to help try and fix the smilely. My conclusion: What says VR like a VR glove?

This should help fix all this Hitler confusion!


I am lost for words. Sharp as a tack my friend.

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Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:07 am
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Sorta getting back on topic, someone mentioned that Palmer may have his hands on a early sample of the new LG1080P 5.5" display.

That won't work, it will lop off a good 5-10% of the potential audience. To get to 95th percentile, at a 16:9 display, (best potential scenario, as a common size that is actually produced) would require an approximate 6.3"-6.4" diagonal 16:9 display.

The LG, at about 400ppi, is so close it's frightening. Doing quick measurements of straight on photos, it is seen to be a 16:9 display. But it is not the optimal display. No. Not for a commercial release of a consumer product, it is not the right display, IMO. Too small. 5.6" diagonal on a 16:9 display was running into the low end of the scale, in the first place.

I'd like to see the Sharp IGZO panel design get in there, but it is also too small to hit the 95th percentile figure at 6.1" diagonal, giving a 13.5cm width and a max IPD accommodation of 6.75cm, if it is a 16:9 ratio panel size. Photos on the net indicate that it is a 16:10 ratio in size, so it is a no-show being a worse choice than preliminary thinking would give it.

The upcoming 1080P 7" Android Google/Nexus 16:9 panel is the real contender here. It sails past the 95th percentile requirement, and has a high enough pixel density. Besides being a well known pixel density or common specification, which is a great plus in it's favour, regarding known methods of scaling and image manipulation. Software enacted image enhancement technology/methods become slightly more directly transferable as drop in solutions.

7.0" diagonal at 16:9, gives a width of 15.08cm. This gives a max IPD capacity of 7.54cm. When adjusted for a smaller IPD, this will create the 'feel' of a wider FOV for most folks (lens design/position limited in this HMD type), and will likely aid in the sense of immersion for the vast majority of the target audience.

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Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:33 am
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Really not sure how authentic this is.. but this would be perfect size/res? 2560x1440 (16:9) 6.3inch.. if only it were OLED and 120hz ;)

http://www.gizchina.com/2013/01/08/zte-planning-nubia-z7-with-6-3-inch-2560-x-1440-display-128gb-storage-and-8-core-cpu


Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:18 pm
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how will we get ocolus updates from now on?

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Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:20 pm
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fader wrote:
Really not sure how authentic this is.. but this would be perfect size/res? 2560x1440 (16:9) 6.3inch.. if only it were OLED and 120hz ;)

http://www.gizchina.com/2013/01/08/zte-planning-nubia-z7-with-6-3-inch-2560-x-1440-display-128gb-storage-and-8-core-cpu


It sounds as if it might be a true 16x9 sized implementation of the Sharp IGZO technology. Innolux is apparently taking on this technology, and utilizing in production of various panels. This could be one of the variant panel sizes that they would be producing. There are many other factors, like connectivity systems.

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Mystify wrote:
How does this one work?
Image


It looks good to me also.

But I do think seeing a little of the smilies forehead by making the Rift smaller, about the size of chunky sunglasses would really do the trick.


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3dvison wrote:
Mystify wrote:
How does this one work?
Image
It looks good to me also.

But I do think seeing a little of the smilies forehead by making the Rift smaller, about the size of chunky sunglasses would really do the trick.
Hey! 3dvision! I see you are reading this thread, but you ignored a PM I sent days ago. I need some more panoramic 3D image pairs... Thanks!

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Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:23 pm
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geekmaster wrote:
[Hey! 3dvision! I see you are reading this thread, but you ignored a PM I sent days ago. I need some more panoramic 3D image pairs... Thanks!


I would never do that to you. I don't have any new PM's from you or anyone ?
I also don't know about the panoramic 3D image pairs you speak of ?


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3dvison wrote:
geekmaster wrote:
[Hey! 3dvision! I see you are reading this thread, but you ignored a PM I sent days ago. I need some more panoramic 3D image pairs... Thanks!
I would never do that to you. I don't have any new PM's from you or anyone ?
I also don't know about the panoramic 3D image pairs you speak of ?
Oops... I confused you with mediaVR, who still has a message sitting in my outbox. He published the "panoramic stereoscopic image pair", with a comment in his post that he will publish more images if anybody is interested. I am interested but he seems to be AWOL from MTBS3D!

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Ok, so I just spent the past few hours with the Rift. I showed it off to a bunch of my fellow workers as well. My thoughts and notes below on some various things.

Co-workers
Some had no idea what the Rift even was, while a few had previous knowledge of the Rift, mostly because I haven't stopped talking about it since Carmack's E3 demo last year (pre-kickstarter backer). They were pretty much all blown away by the responsiveness of the Rift. The resolution is quite noticeable for the first part while you're getting acclimated to the environment, but after that, it's mostly a non-issue. Gamers and non-gamers had a run through it. I hope to run more people through the demos tomorrow at lunch or after work now that I have things a bit more organized and my xbox controller sync working.

Tuscany Demo
By far the most immersive demo that I've tried so far. At it's best when you're looking in/out of the windows, walking through the house, balcony, or when the fluffy debris floats right into your face giving you a gentle startle. Everyone was trying to reach out and touch objects that weren't there. You feel genuinely frightened if you approach the balcony at a quick speed. It seems like you won't be able to stop in time and that you're going to topple right over the railing. The sense of scale with everything is just perfect.
We messed around with different movement speeds, character heights and rotation speeds. Each of these gave fascinating results. One favorite was a super tall character height with a faster speed and slower rotation while turning in an office chair with your feet off the ground. This gave the sense of flying around at fast speeds. And with a slower speed it felt like being inside a tiny helicopter that's flying around the courtyard.

Team Fortress 2
It does seem like the game is a little bit too fast paced for VR and the resolution seems to stand out more as a result of that. There are numerous control schemes for move/aim to try and find out which works best. I'll have to go through them all more in depth, weigh the pros and cons of each and then fine tune from there. The 3D is really solid. Looking around while your gun stays stationary is kind of surreal, yet so right. And when rockets fly by your face, well that's just a thing to behold. This game definitely seems to have a shorter play time ability, but that can probably be overcome with time.

Movement/Controls
Highly recommended that the person wearing the Rift is the one who is in control of the character movement. If not, a fun game to play is where one person wears the Rift, and the other moves the character left, right, forward and back really fast. The person wearing the Rift wins if they don't fall on their face. Best way I can describe it is like Jamiroquai's Virtual Insanity music video, on fast forward, mixed with the feeling of when you get off an escalator or conveyor belt at the airport. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JkIs37a2JE It's very strange to feel this knowing your feet are completely stationary. I swear I came close to the Michael Jackson lean.
Strafing seems to be the culprit for the vast majority of the motion sickness. I think it's harder for the brain to understand such a fast lateral motion because we don't strafe in real life that fast or as often. And the lateral motion/spin while moving forward isn't very natural at all.
I think the easiest and best way to solve this is to be standing and have completely independent controls for head an body rotation tracking. I would also suggest an additional tracker on the back or chest that would dictate rotation. And joystick would only control forward and lateral motions. All rotating done by body tracker and head tracking by Rift. One of the TF2 modes had something like this, with no cursor I believe. It's just too strange having the headset also dictate body rotation.

That's it for now. If anyone has any questions about those demos or the Rift in general, I'd be happy to answer/help with anything that I can.


Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:27 am
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Thanks for your insights Alkapwn.

Did any of your co-workers feel sick?

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Parallaxis wrote:
Thanks for your insights Alkapwn.

Did any of your co-workers feel sick?
Most didn't feel too bad after using it. And they were all able to notice when they started feeling a bit off, and then stepped out of the Rift for a bit, without having any additional ongoing side effects.

One unfortunate user started moving around all over the place in random directions. He got sick FAST! He had to step out of it almost immediately after doing that. Then he said he had to lie down.

Once we figured out how to tweak the movement speed and the turning speed it was a much better experience as all the motion felt more natural and closer to what we experience in real life.


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