Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source.

This is for discussion and development of non-commercial open source VR/AR projects (e.g. Kickstarter applicable, etc). Contact MTBS admins at customerservice@mtbs3d.com if you are unsure if your efforts qualify.
User avatar
TheLostBrain
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Contact:

Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source.

Post by TheLostBrain »

Image

NOTE: Due to the shear amount of data involved I will be updating this post multiple times over the next few days adding additional images, documents (research, bill of materials, etc.), etc. (there really is a lot to share).

Quick Specs:
-Project Name: Infinity Display Engine
-130+ Deg FOV @ 100% overlap)
-1280x800 full resolution per eye
-3D stereoscopic ready
-Large eye relief (eyeglasses compatible)
-Fully prototyped and working


Hello all.

The release of Palmer Luckey's HMD represents something incredible for the gaming, VR and simulation communities. If you're listening Palmer I commend you for your persistence and accomplishing all that you have - how far you've gotten is really nothing short of amazing!

As happy as I am for Palmer and his success I must admit that the news initially had me (quite selfishly) bummed. Like Palmer, I'm also a longtime VR enthusiast and have also been working on my own large FOV HMD design that I hoped to release as a product one day. It has literally been a passion of mine for many many years. Over the course of that time I've made so many great strides and have gotten so close… But living life (working, getting married, having a child (and just recently another! :D ) has made it a bit too easy for me to procrastinate...and unfortunately the years have slipped by and of course I never got around to releasing it. Let that be a lesson to anyone out there with an idea that you're passionate about... don't procrastinate! Make it a priority and hammer away at it with great intensity until it's realized!

Now with Palmer releasing his offering I believe there's no reason to continue my sporadic development under a shroud. In fact I really should have shared and collaborated with the community from the beginning - so much more progress could have been made that way. So, while a bit late... I'd like to share my design with the community in the hopes that it may still be useful or even spur some new ideas. If you're reading Palmer I must say it's so crazy to read through your threads - although we were on different timelines there is so much overlap between your R&D and mine. Even much of the prototyping I've spied in your videos is very similar to things I've built as well.

Now with all that said I'll add this (and this was hard for me to swallow) - Palmer's design is superior to mine. IMO his design is inherently superior on 4 primary fronts - simplicity, weight, weight distribution and cost. The only item my design really wins on is resolution. However this is only because I use a separate imager (lcd panel) for each eye - and even with that it's only a temporary win as eventually a panel will be available that will surpass visual acuity even when split in half as Palmer's design dictates.

The basis for our designs share a common theme: Large single-element non-pupil-forming optics combined with relatively large imagers. We've also no doubt faced many of the same challenges along the way - such as determining lens specifications that would allow for the largest FOV possible for a particular panel, while at the same time still offering a comfortable eye-relief and as close to on-axis centering to the pupil as possible for the projected user demographic. Did I mention also needing to leave someplace for the nose to go? Damn nose always screwing up a good, simple optical system. ;)

Where our designs go after those initial similarities is vastly different. Palmer's design trades resolution for simplicity and performance...where I traded simplicity and performance for resolution.

Palmer's Rift uses a very simple (and very efficient) optical design consisting of a lens assembly and a single imager (split, with each half dedicated to an eye). (As a quick aside... It's funny (in an "I'm kicking myself now" kind of way) as I actually considered Palmer's approach early on but completely discredited it because of the lack of resolution - props to Palmer for having the foresight to keep things simple and design around a panel that would obviously be there eventually...Good move Palmer.)

So, my design makes use of two imagers - dedicating the full field and resolution of each to a corresponding eye. This is accomplished via a slight twist on the 'Planar 3D' configuration many will be familiar with. For those unfamiliar, the planar configuration allows for 3D stereoscopic viewing by making use of 2 panels in conjunction with a beamsplitter and polarization to ensure that each eye only "see's" it's corresponding panel. The 'twist' mentioned is as follows... while stereoscopy is an inherent byproduct, this particular configuration is employed in my design for another reason entirely. With the 5"-7" panels that are common to both of our designs it would be physically impossible to center a panel to each eye without one of the panels being visually obstructed by the other due to the comparatively inadequate size of a human's IPD (inter-pupillary distance). This limitation can be overcome, however, with a slight modification to the planar configuration. In the standard planar setup two LCD panels are laterally aligned to each other. In my design, however, the panels are laterally aligned the pupils of the eyes. With this approach each eye is able be at 0 convergence (looking straight ahead into infinity) while having an entire panel (of just about any size) visually unobstructed and centered to that gaze. This approach paired with a simple set of plano convex lenses (or the custom lens assembly I've designed and cnc'd) allows for an HMD with a very large Field of View (130+ deg) at 100% overlap and a high resolution (high as the panel offers) while still maintaining a very breathable (eyeglasses compatible) eye relief.
Image


While there are many additional items of note, in my opinion the primary tradeoff with my design when compared with the Rift's is weight and weight distribution. The optical system itself is inherently heavier than the Rift's (due to the additional panel and beamsplitter) and will make an HMD quite a bit more front-heavy than Palmer's Rift without proper counter-balancing (but thereby also increasing overall weight, Inertial mass , etc.)

In conclusion, with my current understanding of the Rift's design, if the highest resolution possible is the driving factor for a particular application (and the resolution offered by the rift at that time is not acceptable for that particular application) than I would suggest my design. Otherwise at this point I believe the rift to be the better choice and would suggest it whole heartedly. It is a simple, elegant solution and with a proper consumer grade enclosure (and eventually a very high resolution panel) there will be nothing better IMHO regardless of price point.

Lastly, to Palmer: I wish you luck in your journey - you've done a fine job and I'm envious. ;) If you ever wish to collaborate with someone else who truly shares your passion for HMD design please don't hesitate to get in contact.

-Mike Krzenski


Below you will find many items related to my project - Everything from Images of prototypes I've built.. to sketchup and solidworks files...to bill of materials... and anything in between. As mentioned at the head of this post there is a lot of data and I'll be coming back and adding additional files, etc. as I have time.

Some things to note:
-The wording 'Infisense, Inc.' (as seen in some of the photos) is the corporation (still active) that I registered for handling the business side of things.
-As mentioned I'm releasing this information for the good of the community so that other's interested might benefit (building one for themselves, spawning new ideas, etc.) However, if you're simply taking my hard earned research and then turning around and mass producing it (or including it in your own product that you're profiting from) I would like to be fairly compensated.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by TheLostBrain on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Current VR Setup
- N-Vision Datavisor 80 HMD (1280x1024, 80 FOV at 100% Overlap)
- Ascension Technology Flock of Birds 6DOF Magnetic Tracking + Extended Range Transmitter
- Prototype HMD (~100 FOV) - Specs and design to be shared after patent issued.
- IZ3D for non stereo-ready apps
- GlovePie for TrackIR emulation for apps without native Ascension Tech FOB Support
http://www.thelostbrain.com/?tag=/head+mounted+display" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
TheLostBrain
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by TheLostBrain »

A place holder for additional attachments
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by TheLostBrain on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
My Current VR Setup
- N-Vision Datavisor 80 HMD (1280x1024, 80 FOV at 100% Overlap)
- Ascension Technology Flock of Birds 6DOF Magnetic Tracking + Extended Range Transmitter
- Prototype HMD (~100 FOV) - Specs and design to be shared after patent issued.
- IZ3D for non stereo-ready apps
- GlovePie for TrackIR emulation for apps without native Ascension Tech FOB Support
http://www.thelostbrain.com/?tag=/head+mounted+display" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
TheLostBrain
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by TheLostBrain »

Another place holder for additional attachments...
My Current VR Setup
- N-Vision Datavisor 80 HMD (1280x1024, 80 FOV at 100% Overlap)
- Ascension Technology Flock of Birds 6DOF Magnetic Tracking + Extended Range Transmitter
- Prototype HMD (~100 FOV) - Specs and design to be shared after patent issued.
- IZ3D for non stereo-ready apps
- GlovePie for TrackIR emulation for apps without native Ascension Tech FOB Support
http://www.thelostbrain.com/?tag=/head+mounted+display" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
TheLostBrain
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by TheLostBrain »

And one more just in case...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
My Current VR Setup
- N-Vision Datavisor 80 HMD (1280x1024, 80 FOV at 100% Overlap)
- Ascension Technology Flock of Birds 6DOF Magnetic Tracking + Extended Range Transmitter
- Prototype HMD (~100 FOV) - Specs and design to be shared after patent issued.
- IZ3D for non stereo-ready apps
- GlovePie for TrackIR emulation for apps without native Ascension Tech FOB Support
http://www.thelostbrain.com/?tag=/head+mounted+display" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Krenzo
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:46 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Krenzo »

What's the chip under the heatsink on the Video Control Unit?

How much was the Flock of Birds system, and how did you get it?

User avatar
Okta
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
Posts: 1515
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:22 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D HDTV

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Okta »

Great work man, particularly on the lenses. I had toyed with this idea and Palmers previously while building my 2d HMD but came to a few conclusions. In your design you are doomed to use plannar driver with one screen reversed in software. The Rift design, while saying this in the nicest way, is a bodge up of parts that requires more software to unbodge. With correct support this is fine but i really wanted something that would work out of the box in the more common SBS format without needing correction. I was going to try using 2xvga screens in SBS with some lens correction but the low res made it a little redundant to pursue.

Anyhow this thing is awesome and i would love to try it. How much would you conservatively price a unit at?
"I did not chip in ten grand to seed a first investment round to build value for a Facebook acquisition."
Notch on the FaceDisgrace buyout.

Krisper
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:56 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Krisper »

This looks great. I don't know much about dual display 3d, what drivers would be needed to play games? Would support need to be built into the game or could this be used for any game? Can't wait to see more about this.

druidsbane
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:40 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: LCD shutter glasses
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by druidsbane »

Really great job! I'm really impressed at how you made your own lenses! How well do they work? Is that the standard way of making them using wooden models and molds made off of them?
Ibex 3D VR Desktop for the Oculus Rift: http://hwahba.com/ibex - https://bitbucket.org/druidsbane/ibex

skyehog
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:09 am

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by skyehog »

This is fantastic. Is there much image distortion (as needs to be corrected by drivers in the Rift) from your lens setup ?

Is there any chance that you could release the gcode for your cnc lens pattern ? I built a (McWire style) cnc myself & would love to try cutting a pattern to try making a set of these.

Top job ! :D

User avatar
android78
Certif-Eyable!
Posts: 990
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:38 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by android78 »

That's really cool stuff there, especially like the work on creation of custom lenses.
What is the CNC that you have? I've been looking at getting one for myself and that one looks like a really clean design.

MSat
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
Posts: 1329
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:18 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by MSat »

Nice job! Very impressive!

WiredEarp
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:47 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by WiredEarp »

That is some awesome work TheLostBrain. Pretty jealous of your CNC setup and Flock of Birds stuff as well. That gear is expensive! Very clever the way you have used the planar arrangement to use larger higher resolution screens in full res.

User avatar
cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 11394
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by cybereality »

Awesome work man! That's an interesting design with the non-overlapping planar style setup.

But here is a $6 million dollar question: can it run Crysis? Seriously though, have you tried any games? How does it look?

Brandon9271
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:26 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: LCD shutter glasses

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Brandon9271 »

omg.. i want one! :woot I don't even care about head tracking. Just ghost free stereo3d with a large FOV is enough to blow my mind! :)

User avatar
TheLostBrain
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by TheLostBrain »

Whew! That new baby's been keeping the wife and I up a bit but was finally able to get some sleep ;)

Thanks to all for all the compliments on the design and the lenses, etc. :) Yeah, it really has been a passion of mine ;)

Alright Let me see if I can answer some of your queries.

@Krenzo:
For the chip under the heatsink on the VCU... Would have to take a look actually. I designed the VCU around LCD controllers from Kontron (who now no longer makes LCD controllers :/) It's likely just going to be the scaler/framebuffer ic, etc.

For the Ascension Tech Flock of Birds equipment... I actually pieced that set together from ebay. Probably paid < $500 total?


@Okta:
Yeah, I hear ya on the software reverse requirement for the reflected screen. I wrestled with that one for quite awhile because I also wanted something that essentially worked out of the box with minimal software requirements. Because of this, when I was designing the video control unit I went with an LCD controller that actually supports built-in horizontal (and vertical) flip. It solved the issue nicely at the cost of a couple ms (not really perceivable) delay due to the built in frame-buffer. Something to note was that even though the controllers with flip support cost more I chose to use the same controller for both displays so that the 'couple ms' delay was the same across both displays. With all that said however, it is much more cost effective to simply use some cheap, small controllers (as seen on the rift) and just let the drivers (IZ3D, etc.) do the flipping for you :) (Especially since Kontron stopped making LCD controllers...they were awesome -very reasonably priced and configuration was a breeze. :/)

As for a price to build... need to double-check the BOM... but if you built it yourself and skipped the VCU and went with some small, simple non-flipping lcd controllers... I think a safe est would be ~$500? But don't hold me to it - I'll double-check when I'm back at home.


@Krisper:
It's been awhile since I've actually had time to use it... but for 3D drivers I'm using IZ3D. I'd need to double check on the name of their licenses but if I remember correctly I'm using their Planar3D license when NOT doing the horizontal flipping in the VCU...and their '3D projector' license when doing the horizontal flipping in the VCU. Will need to double-check to be sure though.

As for the game itself requiring support. If you're not talking 3D and you're doing the horizontal flipping of the one lcd at the lcd controller level...then no, it's simply plug and play. For 3D, you'd need to use something like IZ3D's driver, etc. as mentioned above.


@druidsbane
Thanks! Yeah the lenses work great actually...just as good as any other lens. ;) As for the 'standard' way. It seems common practice is to contract a precision mold company to CNC a mold out steel, etc. then that mold is used to do clear plastic injection molding (high volume stuff). This would have been quite (as in way too much ;)) costly so I came up with my own solution as you've seen. I don't really create molds from the wood that was just a test cut because it was the material I had on hand at the time. Preferably you'd machine some acrylic stock, polish 'er up and then make you're mold off that. I cast using some clear uv safe rtv acrylic.


@skyehog:
Unfortunately, yep! Yeah image distortion is kind of inherent to simple single-element lenses. You get both spherical and chromatic aberration just like with any simple optical system. However, I can honestly say that it's really not bad at all...especially when playing games, etc. I can honestly say that I've never had anyone who's tried it point it out. I'll put it this way: Noone has ever put it on and said to me "Hey what's up with the slight color separation and field curvature going on at the extremities of my view?". It's usually something more like.."Whoah!" ;)

I've considered doing some aspheric lenses as well but their off-axis (when not perfectly aligned to the eye) performance can actually be worse then just the simple convex so haven't really put any effort into it at this point.

As for the g-code - sure, give me some time and I'll post it along with some instructions as the cut starts from a particular side and the part has to be flipped and milled on both top and bottom, etc. What is this 'McWire style' cnc you speak of? Sounds interesting :)


@android78:
The CNC machine is a customized Lumenlab micRo M3. Unfortunately Lumenlab has since gone under and their kits are no longer available (maybe check eBay if you're really interested?). I will say however, that after working with this machine for quite sometime now I'd suggest looking into something with more rigidity. The unsupported rails on this thing combined with some other flaws means some things take a long time to mill if you want to do it accurately.


@MSat:
Thanks! ;)


@WiredEarp:
Thanks...yeah just regularly check Ebay, etc. for the tracking stuff... really good deals come up there from time to time. Especially with something like this - not exactly a ton of people out there searching for 6dof magnetic tracking equipment. ;)

Yeah the twist on the Planar idea came to me kind of as a spark of genius one day... It was really one of those holey-crap moments. ;) Been working on a patent for it on and off for quite awhile...guess better just submit the damn thing as I've only got a year to qualify for a domestic one now that it's publicly disclosed. Not positive if I will go through with it or not but no worries if I am awarded one - would never try to prevent progress or crush the little guy like we see some of these companies doing... so ridiculous.


@cybereality
Why yes... yes it does play games well. ;) In fact that was actually it's downfall for awhile. Once I built my first prototype I had a very hard time getting back to work on it because all I wanted to do was play games with it! I used to use the excuse that I was 'testing' it to the wife...that only worked for so long. ;)

In particular I really enjoyed the stereoscopic experience in both PainKiller and Flatout. As for how it looks...overall better than anything else I've experienced - and I've tried quite a few: Rockwell Collins XL series, NVis, NVision, etc. However, (and not do downplay my own design, but...) I'd be willing to bet that with a higher resolution panel the Rift will be better by a very good margin.


@Bradon9271:
lol a little excited? ;) Well, by the time I'm done listing everything you will be able to build your own if you like. ;) Could probably cast a couple of lenses at some point for anyone's interested. In reality any plano-convex at the right FL would work just fine. However, the larger diameter ones cut for nose-room allow for more eye-relief which is why I went that route (I wear glasses). May be able to CNC up a couple birch-ply shells to...but as you'll see from some of my earlier prototypes that I'll be posting you could litterally put together a workable housing with simple tools and a single trip to the hardware / hobby store if you wanted.




Alright, thanks for all the compliments and interest! :) Will be back to post more details as soon as I have some more time.
My Current VR Setup
- N-Vision Datavisor 80 HMD (1280x1024, 80 FOV at 100% Overlap)
- Ascension Technology Flock of Birds 6DOF Magnetic Tracking + Extended Range Transmitter
- Prototype HMD (~100 FOV) - Specs and design to be shared after patent issued.
- IZ3D for non stereo-ready apps
- GlovePie for TrackIR emulation for apps without native Ascension Tech FOB Support
http://www.thelostbrain.com/?tag=/head+mounted+display" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bobv5
Certif-Eyed!
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:38 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by bobv5 »

LostBrain,
I suggest getting the patent if you can. That way if some big company trys to use it you can maybe make a little money. The legal stuff trying to take it to court would be horribly expensive, but I bet if you offered to come to some sort of agreement for a few thousand they would be happy to.

How does this design compare to the HMD in your avatar? I have read the specs of both, I mean the user experience.
"If you have a diabolical mind, the first thing that probably came to mind is that it will make an excellent trap: how do you get off a functional omni-directional treadmill?"

Krenzo
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:46 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Krenzo »

TheLostBrain wrote:@Krenzo:
For the chip under the heatsink on the VCU... Would have to take a look actually. I designed the VCU around LCD controllers from Kontron (who now no longer makes LCD controllers :/) It's likely just going to be the scaler/framebuffer ic, etc.
Aww, I was hoping someone else was using FPGAs.
bobv5 wrote:LostBrain,
I suggest getting the patent if you can.
I wouldn't suggest doing anything to upset John Carmack who hates patents (see Creative patenting his Doom 3 shadowing technique and then blackmailing him).

bobv5
Certif-Eyed!
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:38 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by bobv5 »

If Mr Brain decides to get a patent it is irelevant if Mr Carmack approves.
I also doubt Mr Brain would try to blackmail Mr Carmack, or anyone else.
Ultimately, JC is not a god, just another tech dork who happens to have a bigger pile of cash than the rest of us.
"If you have a diabolical mind, the first thing that probably came to mind is that it will make an excellent trap: how do you get off a functional omni-directional treadmill?"

skyehog
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:09 am

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by skyehog »

Thanks for the info Lostbrain.

McWire info here - http://reprap.org/wiki/McWire_(Death_Ma ... _not_build!!!) - this link not working properly for some reason, just click the 'search for this page title' & select the second listed link to track the page down. The RepRap machine is adapted for 3D printing but Tom McGuire's original design was a mill, as is mine. There are plenty of builds out there on Google if folk are curious

As you can see this cnc is a bit of an outmoded design but is easy enough to put together with off the shelf parts, plumbing fittings etc. I built mine a couple of years ago & still use it for cutting soft materials such as high density polyfoam & wax for jewellery making. I'm not sure that it would have the grunt for milling acrylic, nor am I convinced that the table is big enough for these lenses, but I wondered about cutting a foam former & maybe vac forming a smooth skin over it with thin plastic. This could possibly then be used to make the mold in the same way as your milled & sanded solid acrylic ?

Watching this thread closely for more specs - thans so much for sharing this - keep it coming ! :geek:

Krisper
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:56 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Krisper »

TheLostBrain wrote: In particular I really enjoyed the stereoscopic experience in both PainKiller and Flatout. As for how it looks...overall better than anything else I've experienced - and I've tried quite a few: Rockwell Collins XL series, NVis, NVision, etc. However, (and not do downplay my own design, but...) I'd be willing to bet that with a higher resolution panel the Rift will be better by a very good margin.
But yours has 130+ FOV! I am really keen to build one of these so am looking forward to more information. I wouldn't mind buying some of your lenses and anything else that may be difficult for me to get so if that is possible I am very interested. This is purely for my own personal use.

User avatar
brantlew
Petrif-Eyed
Posts: 2220
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Menlo Park, CA

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by brantlew »

Thanks for sharing this. Good lesson about pursuing your dreams unrelentingly.

Of course the upside for you is - at least you've been able to play in VR for years now. The rest of us are sadly still waiting and salivating...

User avatar
TheLostBrain
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by TheLostBrain »

Ok, finally back with more info for you guys! Sorry so long in between posts - Between the new baby and trying to meet deadlines at the office not a lot of extra wind left in my sails at the moment. ;)

Alright, so first some awesome news!
It had been quite a while since I'd really pushed to make time to work on this project...but all of you showing interest really got me excited about it all over again. Thank you all for that! :) So, I made some time. The first thing I really wanted to do was reevaluate my lens parameter selection (specifically the diameter and focal length) to be sure I was actually getting everything I could out of this configuration. So I went back to basics and just started working with some of the lenses I already had in my collection... and dare I say I might just have come up with a solution that pushes the specs beyond those I've previously listed?! Yes, I do think so ;)

Because of these new findings I'm going to be doing up a a new prototype. This time I'll design it in SolidWorks so the model will be parametric and thus can be modified much more easily moving forward. In the meantime I am going to post the sketchup designs for the earlier prototypes (likely when I'm done with this posting). With the most recent of those models you could make an exact copy of the prototype pictured in the original post... but I'd suggest waiting until I wrap up this next one as it will include quite a few enhancements : Larger FOV, smaller footprint, LCD drivers built-in (no more Video Control Unit).

In the meantime here's quick parts list for those who haven't figured out most of it already:
(Roughly $500)
  • 2x HV056WX1-100 + Small LCD Controller Kit
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-6inch-TFT-LCD ... 167wt_1094
    Note: The controller they're showing isn't the smaller one I've ordered from them in the past (as shown in the attached picture) so verify they still have it or maybe even another small one w/ HDMI or DVI?
    Here's another guy with a limited supply of kits with a nice small controller that has built in VGA and HDMI:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-6-LCD-720p-WX ... 0851503600
    *If anyone orders these please let me know the model of that controller as it may be a really good fit for a kit version of the HMD if anyone might be interested in one in the future.
    ~$300

    2x High Contrast Polarizer Sheets
    NA_SM 25 x 15 cm (10 x 6 in) NO adhesive
    http://www.polarization.com/polarshop/p ... ucts_id=31
    ~$50

    1x Half Wave Retarder
    -Roll of cellophane (Clear 'Celebrate It Transparent Packaging Wrap' from Michael's Arts and Crafts store)
    OR if you want to pay more...
    -1x sheet WFLA-OG2 Half-wave plate retarder film
    http://www.polarization.com/polarshop/p ... ucts_id=44
    ~$5

    1x 50/50 beamsplitter
    http://www.stereoscopicmirror.com/3d.htm
    The last prototype used a size of ~210mmX99mm. The new prototype will likely be very close to that if not exactly the same.
    ~$35

    2x Lens
    Eventually I'll have the new custom lens available for those who'd like one...but in the mean time you can get by with 2 77mm 10x close-up lenses like these:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vivitar-77mm-77 ... 1079630446
    Cool thing most people don't realize is that these 10x close-up lenses are just 100mm FL plano convex lenses...and they are so cheap compared to buying the same exact thing from a place like edmund or even thorlabs, etc. These 77mm dia are big and heavy but they will give you the size you'd need to be able to have eye-glass compatible eye-relief and still be able to see the entire screen at once. If you're not needing such a large eye relief you could go with something even smaller... but even w/ a 58mm dia 10x (testing one right this second) you've really got to press your eye into it get the whole screen visible at once.
    Here's another for just a bit more and it comes w/ a couple other lenses to play around with ;)
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-77MM-MACRO- ... 0414258107
    Note: When using something like 77mm they won't leave any room for your nose if you keep them on axis with your pupils... so you can either cut them like I did in my early days w/ a wet tile saw or you can separate them out so your nose will fit at the expense of a less optimal (but still usable) image quality (think more chromatic and spherical aberration).
    ~$30

    1x Headband
    http://www.oaktreegroupllc.com/html/fibre_optic.html
    ~$50

    1x Frame/Housing
    When the new prototype is done I can cnc a few housing's up for those interested - ooh maybe carbon fiber? ;). In the mean time you could do a simpler open frame like can be seen in one of the sketchup files I'll be posting shortly... or if you're feeling adventurous go ahead and build one like I did for the most recent prototype (you can get all the dimensions from the sketchup file). In the future if I do a kit it will probably include a molded plastic shell, etc.
    ~$10 for open frame as described
So there ya have it...if someone was interested enough and wanted to get a head start those are the items. Cool thing is the panel is the same one used in the Rift... so if you decided to go that route you'd already be most of the way there. ;)


Also, someone asked about using the using this setup w/ the in-game support that will be available for the rift. There is one hypothetical way I can think of... use a Matrox 'dual-head to go' (http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/produ ... igital_se/) to treat both screens of this HMD as one screen...then the SBS Rift support would be spanned across both screens and technically should just work (including the pre-warping for the spherical aberration that Carmack was showing.) Of course in order for this work out of the box the image on the reflected panel would already have to flipped which means either doing it at the lcd controller level or using something like this: http://www.teleprompters.com/VGA-mirror.html. Or...if you wanted to get really crafty.. You could take the panel apart..and find a way to flip the panel around and put the backlighting on the other side. ;)

However, all that said...the IZ3D drivers offer excellent support for this configuration right out of the box...and maybe we could convince this guy (http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15086) to look into doing something that is IZ3D compatible ;)?


Ok, more to come...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
My Current VR Setup
- N-Vision Datavisor 80 HMD (1280x1024, 80 FOV at 100% Overlap)
- Ascension Technology Flock of Birds 6DOF Magnetic Tracking + Extended Range Transmitter
- Prototype HMD (~100 FOV) - Specs and design to be shared after patent issued.
- IZ3D for non stereo-ready apps
- GlovePie for TrackIR emulation for apps without native Ascension Tech FOB Support
http://www.thelostbrain.com/?tag=/head+mounted+display" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 11394
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by cybereality »

Very cool.

Brandon9271
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:26 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: LCD shutter glasses

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Brandon9271 »

How thick are your lenses? I have a CNC router and several pieces of 3/4" thick acrylic i scored from the trash years ago. May have finally found a use :))
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Krisper
Two Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:56 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Krisper »

Thanks for the extra info TheLostBrain. I am keen to build one, but I have so many other things on my plate at the moment, I am happy to wait for info on the improved version, especially if we get an even wider FOV. I was wondering, do you get the same sort of image distortion as the RIFT?

WiredEarp
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:47 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by WiredEarp »

use a Matrox 'dual-head to go' (http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/produ ... igital_se/) to treat both screens of this HMD as one screen...then the SBS Rift support would be spanned across both screens and technically should just work
That is a brilliant idea!

3dvison
Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:25 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by 3dvison »

Looks like a project I would like to try.
Do you know when the "new prototype" will be done, and when parts like your new lenses will be ready to ship ?

When you say "LCD drivers built-in (no more Video Control Unit)" Does this mean the image on one of the two LCD's that needed to be flipped will now be flipped without needing software like the IZ3D drivers or through added hardware ?

Skaven252
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:07 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Location: Sweden

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Skaven252 »

Interesting idea to use a beam splittter to make the display more compact. Does the mirror cause any ghosting? Before seeing this, I toyed with the thought of making the HMD narrower by crossing the light paths instead of spreading them out (like LEEP).

It would seem to me that the lenses would be the hardest part of this setup to manufacture. There's no way I could see myself honing and polishing them to optical perfection with what I have what comes to skills and the tools. Could it be possible to make this (or any VR) lighter by using Fresnel lenses instead? They should be very light and also much easier to cut into shape. Are Fresnel lenses with the correct factors readily available?

User avatar
zacherynuk
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: England

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by zacherynuk »

This is ... Very very impressive :)

User avatar
zacherynuk
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: England

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by zacherynuk »

Call me thicky-mac-thinckthick... but what is the halfwave retarder for ? and why not just use more High-Contrast Polariser ?

User avatar
Okta
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
Posts: 1515
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:22 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D HDTV

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by Okta »

Seeing as you have performed some serious wizardry making you lenses, would you be able to make lenses that corrected the tall aspect ratio of the Rift design? Even at the cost of FOV it would be great.
"I did not chip in ten grand to seed a first investment round to build value for a Facebook acquisition."
Notch on the FaceDisgrace buyout.

3DHMDGuy
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by 3DHMDGuy »

Hey All,

Been reading threads on this site for a few years now. All cutting edge, very exciting stuff. I helped fund Palmer aka Mr Oculus, in very early stages 2 years ago, we also did some brain storming. I am very happy for his success now and the freebies I have been promised. I hope this is not too off topic for you, but wanted a favor from you guys.

What I have developed myself now is a way to capture real video in 360x360 panoramic format also in true 3D (not fake). The camera shoots at 13k resolution. Yes that's 13x the power of HD, so nothing is missed in detail. Its great for HMD's with tracking. I have tried it on a few. We are exhibiting at CES on January 8th to show the product. Already have integrated the great Sixense hydra tracker, that also has zoom to our viewing software. This means we its compatible with just about any display. I will place our viewer and footage links in this forum, with Sixense tracking in the next few weeks.

What I am asking from you guys is if anyone would like to either come to Vegas with one of their HMDS and let us demo footage in your visor, or lend us one for the show. It does not need to have tracking, we can do that. Palmer has kindly allowed me to show footage on an Oculus but only in his meeting room and we need one on the stand. It can look rough too, does not need to be shiny. If anyone has a two panel design like in this post or anything else interesting with higher res that will get us really excited here. Our only criteria is that it need to be high FOV. We have the great silicon micro display, with superb res but could do with some more FOV for our application. Can be a full cost deposit with rental charge to borrow it. You also get bragging rites that your product is at CES.

We think we have the final warping done for our video viewer to make it compatible with wide angled HMDs, but we have not finished yet. So if anyone wants to get in touch who knows how to distort a video image to match the lens distortion please also get in touch, there could be a job for you

You can get in touch with me at

t o m at e y e - m i r r o r . c o m

Remove all spaces

or PM me here I check it daily

You can also see our consumer 360 products on our site. But the 13k RCD (reality capture device) is not up there yet.

Good luck everyone with your projects and if anyone is reading this in a few month/years time and has something kool. Get in touch, we are always looking for a better HMDs to display our footage.

Tom

StephaneLX
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:38 am
Location: Montreal

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by StephaneLX »

3DHMDGuy wrote:What I have developed myself now is a way to capture real video in 360x360 panoramic format also in true 3D (not fake). The camera shoots at 13k resolution. Yes that's 13x the power of HD, so nothing is missed in detail.
This is great news! :woot

3DHMDGuy
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by 3DHMDGuy »

Stephane,

Thanks for sharing my excitement with our product.

@TheLostBrain. Really really need to get in touch with you ASAP. We want to use your product at CES.

I have PMd, found your address and got 2 old telephone numbers for you TheLostBrain, but still no reply. Please get in touch.

If anyone could build this design for us in this short time period I would love to get in touch with you. PM me here. I check it every day.

Tom

User avatar
BOLL
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:26 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: LCD shutter glasses
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by BOLL »

3DHMDGuy wrote:We are exhibiting at CES on January 8th to show the product.
So looking forward to that, been dreaming about a device like this lately :D let's hope you get hold of Mr TheLostBrain!

crim3
Certif-Eyed!
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:11 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D Projector Setup
Location: Valencia (Spain)

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by crim3 »

TheLostBrain, how much do you want for one of those?
Zalman Trimon ZM-M220W / Acer H5360 with Another Eye2000 shutters / nVIDIA GTX760

crim3
Certif-Eyed!
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:11 am
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D Projector Setup
Location: Valencia (Spain)

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by crim3 »

Also, I have a suggestion for 3 dof head tracking. It was mentioned here some time ago and I was very impressed with the videos that showed its accuracy and apparently, zero drifting: http://www.pnicorp.com/gaming/SpacePoint_Technology
And it isn't expensive, at least if you live at the States... :/
Zalman Trimon ZM-M220W / Acer H5360 with Another Eye2000 shutters / nVIDIA GTX760

User avatar
cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Posts: 11394
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by cybereality »

@crim3: That looks pretty good actually. How much are they charging?

PalmerTech
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:06 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by PalmerTech »

They were selling the Spacepoint Fusion for $99 to developers for a while, but I don't think they sell to the public anymore.

User avatar
TheLostBrain
Cross Eyed!
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 pm
Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: Head Mounted Display (HMD)
Contact:

Re: Yet another large FOV, high-res HMD released open source

Post by TheLostBrain »

Hey gents sorry for the long absence - been spending more time with the wife and kids and have literally been unable to find even a moment to come back here let alone work on any more hmd builds. :/ I am hoping to make some time here soon to 'play' again. :)

Listen guys... I know I started some excitement here w/ this design... and it is a pretty neat one if I do say so myself :) ...
But trust me when I say this: Just wait for Palmer's.

Listen, I've built a few prototypes of his design and it's so much better in so many ways... even with the reduced resolution.
Have you noticed that I wound up spending more time in the DIY Rift thread than my own? There's good reason...and I sincerely apologize for not coming here back sooner.

I've had some ideas for improving these...but there are very real issues w/ my design that simply don't exist in the Rift:
  • *General overall complexity of the design
  • *It's FRONT heavy due to beamsplitter (and with counter balancing it's just extra heavy)
  • *There's a reduction in brightness, contrast and even some ghosting due to the polarized approach being employed
  • *Additional cost for an extra LCD and controller
  • *And even when designed with the widest possible FOV it still doesn't feel nearly as immersive as the rift because it's mostly horizontal... and without that vertical it's just not the same.
The ONLY real benefit is the added resolution and it really doesn't make that much of an impact.

Trust me guys...I love my design...because it's my baby... But it doesn't stack up.

I hope I'm not crushing any hopes and dreams here... but please, if resolution is that important to you... just wait a bit for Palmer to get ahold of some high resolution panels and you'll never look back. :)

As time allows I'll likely continue to try to improve my design...and if at any point I feel as though it's truly a viable alternative to the Rift or somehow even compliments it by elegantly filling some void I'll be sure to let everyone know. Heck, who knows maybe I'll even approach Palmer w/ an improved version of my design one day and see if he'd like to run with it, etc. ;)

In the mean time, as I've said Palmer's Rift is the way to go. I've been exposed to and have worked with a lot of pro-level HMDs and can honestly tell you that there's nothing available for less than 60k-100k that bests it. Seriously.
My Current VR Setup
- N-Vision Datavisor 80 HMD (1280x1024, 80 FOV at 100% Overlap)
- Ascension Technology Flock of Birds 6DOF Magnetic Tracking + Extended Range Transmitter
- Prototype HMD (~100 FOV) - Specs and design to be shared after patent issued.
- IZ3D for non stereo-ready apps
- GlovePie for TrackIR emulation for apps without native Ascension Tech FOB Support
http://www.thelostbrain.com/?tag=/head+mounted+display" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post Reply

Return to “VR/AR Research & Development”