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 Field sequential vs. Frame sequential format 
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:00 am
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Hi

Does anyone know whether or not there is any way to convert these two formats (Frame seq. and Field seq.) to each other? my DLP projector mitsubishi XD600U plays field seq. format, but my camcorder, Sony HDR-TD10 records only in frame seq. format.

Thanks
Nasser


Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:56 am
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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Hmm.. sure you don't have that backwards?


Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:15 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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well.. I'm totally new in the field of 3D! What I know is that the direction of projected pictures are different (90 degrees). But I don't think this is a big problem to convert the formats? do you have any idea?
all i want is to play the movies I take with my camera using this projector.


Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:27 pm
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Are you saying that not only are the formats different, but the video itself is rotated 90 degrees? As if people are walking on the wallls?


Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:24 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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no..no.. what I mean is that the interlaced pictures are projected vertically in field seq. format but horizontally in frame seq. format.
what you see is in correct orientation for both formats. this is all I know.


Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:29 pm
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Hmm.. your description makes no sense to me.

Let's establish some terms:

Frame sequential - Images for the left and right eyes are delivered sequentially as separate frames. The display does what it needs to do to deliver these separate images to the separate eyes (several ways of doing this). This is a "full resolution" solution, but at double the video bandwidth.

Field sequenital - Images for the left and right eyes are delivered sequentially as separate fields. Fields can be thought of as all of the even or odd lines from a frame. Together, an even and an odd field make 1 frame. Put another way, all of the even lines of a picture will be dedicated to the left eye and all of the odd lines to the right eye. When viewed together without glasses (either as a progressive image or an interlaced one) objects in the image will appear to have a "serrated" edge since every other line will show the perspecitve from any given eye.
In an interlaced picture, the even lines are all displayed and then the odd lines are displayed (i.e.: the "even field" and then the "odd field" to make one "frame".) Shutter glasses operating in sync with the drawing of the fields will display the even field to the left eye and the odd field to the left. Giving the 3D effect. Since most modern displays will "progressive scan" interlaced content, the glasses will have nothing to sync to, so this method is not nearly as useful as it once was. This is a half resolution solution, as each picture is composed of a single field (half frame) rather than an entire frame, but video bandwidth is the same as 2D.


Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:14 pm
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You must be talking about horizontal interleave vs vertical interleave. This thread might have what you're looking for: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=6279

You may also want to retitle your thread. I don't think you're talking about frame sequential at all.


Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:39 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Thanks for your comprehensive answer. now I learned quite a lot about these formats.

Like i asked in my question, I have one problem which I hoped to find an answer for it by broaching it in here. Like I said i just want to know if there is any way to convert frame and field seq. formats to each other or not. If I can convert the recorded format from my 3D camera to what I can play with my projector, then the problem is solved!
I admit that I might have been wrong; it may not be so straightforward to convert these two formats; but if you or any one knows how to reach this goal, that helps a lot and I appreciate it. thanks.


Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:04 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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I think there may be a mix-up. First of all, that Sony camera records using the MVC codec. This is newer 3D format that stores both left and right views in different streams, and has nothing to do with frame sequential *or* field sequential. Secondly, I believe that projector, being DLP, actually uses frame sequential format (the Mitsubishi website is probably wrong). All you should need to do to view the 3D video is open the video with the latest version of the Stereoscopic Player and set the output mode to "software page-flipping" (page-flipping is another name for frame sequential). Make sure you have the MVC codec installed, you may need to purchase software for this part. Then I think it will work.

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Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:33 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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wow, thanks admin. That's correct. Sony records in MVC and mitsubishi has misled me about field sequential. I just found a webpage which is really interesting to me:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/what_do ... y_mean.htm
you may already know this. but here is also mentioned that DLP projectors play frame sequential.

so I can just easily play the original format of sony (MVC) by projector, having appropriate codec. perfect.

may I ask you one more question: I tried to set the refresh rate to 120HZ, but this refresh rate only exists in 1280*728 (i guess). with this resolution and refresh rate, my projector squeezes the pictures, meaning that the aspect ratio is completely changed (the width is almost half of what it should be). is there any way to fix this? I should mention that I use a ATI Radeon HD 5650 installed on a vaio laptop. I just bought a HDMI cable and I have not tried it yet, however I don't think this can fix it. am I right?


Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:27 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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You have to run at the full refresh rate, 120Hz. Other modes will probably not work. If it seems to be the wrong aspect, you can try creating custom modes. I would try either 1280x720 @ 120Hz or 1280 x 800 @ 120Hz.

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Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:38 pm
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Petrif-Eyed
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Your projector (Mitsubishi XD600U) is XGA so its native resolution is 1024x768, you shouldn't use any other resolution else the image will be degraded (upscaled or downscaled).


Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:53 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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aa. it works. thanks Fredz for your comment :)


Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:41 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Does anyone know how to search for 3d movies which can be played by DLP projector?
I mean, when I look for 3D movies to download, by most of the time the format is Bluray, side-by-side etc and not possible to see 3D in DLP, while it has to be frame seq./page flipping.
is it possible to convert the formats, e.g. side-by-side > page-flipping ?

I appreciate any help.
Nasser


Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:43 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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nasser186 wrote:
Does anyone know how to search for 3d movies which can be played by DLP projector?
I mean, when I look for 3D movies to download, by most of the time the format is Bluray, side-by-side etc and not possible to see 3D in DLP, while it has to be frame seq./page flipping.
is it possible to convert the formats, e.g. side-by-side > page-flipping ?

I appreciate any help.
Nasser


Stereoscopic Player.

Input side by side....output page flipping.

http://3dtv.at/Downloads/Index_en.aspx

Gae43


Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:01 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Dear Gae43

this does not work. I have downloaded a mp4 file, which is 3D sbs; just opened it by Stereoscopic player v1.7 and set the viewing method to "page flipping". but it shows me two pictures side by side. besides, i don't find any converter in this software. could you explain it in more detail please?

Nasser


Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:59 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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You might have to use it in conjunction with some 3D page flipping driver or graphics card setup. Sorry, I assumed that you already had that. Here's my setup and that might help...

Geforce FX 8400Gs graphics card (yes I know this is ancient :lol: )
Extreme 3D shutter Glasses. The 3D panel has page flip as an option.
I output to the Infocus X1 DLP and the page flip works perfectly. I'm still not sure if the page flipping is done in the card or the Extreme 3D driver or both! :roll: I just watch it and it works. :lol:

It's definately time for me to get into this new 3D technology finally.....even if it is only on a 23" screen at first. :?

Gae43


Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:32 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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One more thing that I just remembered with Stereoscopic Player. I couldn't get page flipping to work on my setup with version 1.7. I had to go back to version 1.3 and page flipping worked again.
Now I don't whether something was tampered with in the software or whether my setup didn't like a new install on top of my original configuration but it worked so it might be worth trying the earlier version.

Gae43


Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:39 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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well, I know all these things. I use a shutter glasses as well as AVI HD 5650 etc.

The thing is that I can see frame sequential 3D movies perfectly. but this format is extremely rare and I thought people are downloading other formats from internet and watch them as page-flipping by converting and so on. as far as I see most of the 3D movies in internet are either Bluray or SBS! but I can't see them properly using my Mitsubishi XD600U DLP projector.

please let me know if I think wrong.
Thanks


Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:47 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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You know you have to select the input source format, right. You can do this by going to "File" -> "Layout" and choosing "Side-by-Side" (or whatever the source actually is). Then you select the viewing format under "View" -> "Viewing Method". You can try "Software Pageflipping". Then you have to go full screen in order for it to work.

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Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:56 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Awesome!
that works, i can't believe it was so easy! :)

Thanks man!


Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:19 pm
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