Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Talk about Head Mounted Displays (HMDs), augmented reality, wearable computing, controller hardware, haptic feedback, motion tracking, and related topics here!
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coresnake
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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by coresnake »

I also agree with external motion tracking used in conjunction with some sort of 'fixation device', that way you get two birds with one stone when mapping your gestures etc. into the game from all limbs, reducing processing power required, and also should simplify the setup which fixes you in place as it is separated from the tracking device.

I have been playing with several ideas (only on paper for now) for support of certain limbs, I am especially interested in some sort of electrically stimulated support for the arms, something like a 'smart spring' with modifiable tension to simulate putting your hand on something - obviously this wont give you the texture of the object you are feeling but may give some greater sense of immersion.

I'm not sure if something like this exists already, and I'm still thinking of what material would be a good choice for this. Remember in Batman Begins when his cape becomes firm by sending electricity through it? Something like that.

Alkapwn
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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by Alkapwn »

What about something like this.

Kinect can read walking motions and interpret them pretty well it seems. Rotation, Palmer said that it seems to track pretty well in that regard. But what if you wanted to keep the Kinect in front at all times for better reading.

My thoughts are for legs/feet, have shoes with those fancy rollers on them so that way you can walk in place more comfortably and Kinect would track.

For torso and rotation I’m thinking something WAY simpler than a crazy underneath omni directional treadmill.

If anyone here has been snowboarding before this will make sense. They say to turn your head and shoulders in the direction you want to go and your torso will follow completing the turn. Similar to standing (dangerous) on a spinning office chair. If you turn your head you may not spin the chair too much, but if you turn you’re your shoulders, the chair should rotate underneath you to face that direction simply by your balance shifting.

My thought is to have a platform that would be built on a sort of chair bearing that you would stand on. Then maybe have like bungee cords going from the corners to an anchor belt that you wear. So when you spin your upper torso, it will cause balance shift to rotate platform and cause tension in the bands. The bands contracting would help spin you in the direction you’re going with easier force. You would then mount the Kinect on the platform thing facing you so that it would spin with you and hence always face you.

Let me know if this makes any sense of if I should try drawing a crude diagram/mockup/video.

Would probably need a waist barrier to prevent falling over maybe.

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Dantesinferno
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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by Dantesinferno »

Well hey guys I've been watching this forum for a long time, and finally made an account.... First of @cybereality I literally thought of the same "harness" idea and felt really awesome that I thought of it, but then found this forum and felt like crap lol, but I definitely want to create a "prototype" harness/wizdish device that rotates.... I have the specs and plans ready.... My only problem is "money" I could build the harness... But the trackers is what would cost the most money. I am seriously am looking to build this and would like someone's help in developing software ... Maybe a kick starter could be made after this prototype , and we could start actually moving in virtual reality in our lifetime. Hopefully this could be sold alongside the oculus rift ... I just need someone's help! And hopefully it'll cost about 400-500 dollars to sell. Please reply back as soon as possible if interested in production.

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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by PalmerTech »

You will probably have more luck if you make your own prototype first. Lots of people here have ideas/plans, and most of them turn out to be flawed once actually built. Taking a product to market takes a lot of money, but making a proof of concept prototype does not have to be more than a few hundred dollars and a lot of manhours. If you can't gamble a few hundred dollars on something you think will work, not many software developers/investors will want to take that chance either.

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Dantesinferno
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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by Dantesinferno »

Well first and foremost thank you @palmertech for taking the time out to reply back. The main reason why money could be a problem is because I am 16 and currently in high school. I am looking into getting a job and a possible internship to help fund it. I plant to build the prototype nevertheless. I would like to build from now till the end of summer, or possibly earlier .. I will document my progress and share it with you guys online.. Any help from anyone would be great . But @palmertech if this project is successful and many are interested in it, could you possibly consider mass production alongside the rift ?

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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by PalmerTech »

It is hard to say without knowing a lot more factors (Cost, size, safety, patent issues, etc), but I am definitely interested in VR locomotion devices. Your plan sounds good, working with the community is the best thing you can do with something like this. The more information you post, the better people can point out potential problems (And ways to fix them!)

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Dantesinferno
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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by Dantesinferno »

Thanks @palmertech for the info and reply.. I found a partner in my school that seems very interested to work with me and we are both willing to fork up a total of 800 dollars on this project... I will definitely document our prototype, but I'm a bit hesitant on putting up or work online for the whole world, with the idea that someone might steal it .. I am looking to get it patented . But I'm not sure exactly on the cost and time frame of the patent process . Plus I haven't even created it yet. So any tips on how to do it, since you created the rift? And how did you trust people with your invention?

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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by bobv5 »

Lots of people are making clones of the 5.6" version of Palmers HMD. I used to think people should patent stuff, but I don't think it is a good idea now.

Hypothetically, if I had patented Palmers HMD before him, it still wouldn't matter. He has more money, so he could get better lawyers, so I would lose.

Watch this video.
http://www.eevblog.com/2010/08/22/eevbl ... to-market/
"If you have a diabolical mind, the first thing that probably came to mind is that it will make an excellent trap: how do you get off a functional omni-directional treadmill?"

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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by PalmerTech »

Dantesinferno wrote:Thanks @palmertech for the info and reply.. I found a partner in my school that seems very interested to work with me and we are both willing to fork up a total of 800 dollars on this project... I will definitely document our prototype, but I'm a bit hesitant on putting up or work online for the whole world, with the idea that someone might steal it .. I am looking to get it patented . But I'm not sure exactly on the cost and time frame of the patent process . Plus I haven't even created it yet. So any tips on how to do it, since you created the rift? And how did you trust people with your invention?
I always gave away pretty much all of the information on all of my HMDs, there was never any secret. If you really think your design is something that nobody else could replicate and that you can better on your own than the community as a whole, by all means, get a patent. It will take years to be granted, cost thousands of dollars, and won't really protect you from other companies stealing your design.

More likely, though, your design is something that many "real" companies could do better, and the best way to get your product anywhere is to stick with it, listen to community suggestions, make constant improvements, and beat slower moving/risk averse companies to market. In the end, though, you need to ask yourself what you really want: Do you want a VR omnidirectional treadmill, or do you want to get rich off of one? Had a large company copied my original designs and brought a high FOV HMD to market, I would have been thrilled! I made the Rift because nobody else would, and I think the same is likely true for you.

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Dantesinferno
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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by Dantesinferno »

Wow that was a wonderful video @bobv5 and thanks @palmertech this has been something that I always wanted to do , especially with finding out the rift was being created... Now I have no worry about documenting my progress in this forum. I have so many ideas ready to show you guys... I'll make a thread soon, so stay updated ... I still need to learn a lot about programming so some tips on that would be great. my friend and I have taken some college courses while in highschool on computer science /programming . We just need some guidance on how "tracking" would be written/programmed in a basic software. But I guess I'll wait till I start the actual thread. I still have to draw out the "exact " dimensions of the platform. I Have to find a welder soon. Thanks again for the support and motivation .. I just hope there are hardcore gamers/developers out there that would actually use these devices.

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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by Bfg »

I found a harness style thing here too: https://freedomgenesis.com/yoga-swing/

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cadcoke5
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Re: Envisioning a DIY CyberCarpet for Omnidirectional Motion

Post by cadcoke5 »

Bfg wrote:I found a harness style thing here too: https://freedomgenesis.com/yoga-swing/
I don't think that yoga harness will be good for this purpose. It is simply a cloth that you wrap around you, and you need to pay attention to how it is looped around you. If you are immersed in VR, you won't be able to keep track of it, and will fall through.

I think you need a more traditional safety harness.
https://www.grainger.com/category/harne ... alog/N-azy

There are other styles designed with comfort more in mind for long hang times. They are designed for actors to fly on stage. But, there is a price penalty.
http://www.adrenalindreams.com/gallery1 ... _Harnesses

-Joe

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