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 LG2342 & ghosting 
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One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:52 pm
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what is ghosting dependant on in passive displays? Quality of glasses?

It can be somewhat cured with distance of depth, distance in front of screen, but I would love to blast everything 100%. Most of the time it's impossible due to ghosting. Wolfenstein seems almost fine with effects full on.
I'm playing Dark Void right now and ghosting is terrible (purple haze mostly visible when white and black are together) if depth is set to anything more than 10%. In front of screen can be almost anything.
But I love how it looks when I set everything to 100% it's crazy how depth + in front of screen looks like, although I have to seriously focus on one thing at a time or I feel my eye sight is getting tired.


Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:57 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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The quality of the glasses can certainly make a difference., but usually the glasses that come with the monitor will be the best. Your viewing angle and distance from the monitor are also key factors. To be honest, I never understand why people seem so bothered with ghosting. Of course I have seen ghosting with various displays, but it has never been an issue for me. I can safely turn up the settings as far as I like. I think its just a matter of learning to deal with them.

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Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:46 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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cybereality wrote:
To be honest, I never understand why people seem so bothered with ghosting. Of course I have seen ghosting with various displays, but it has never been an issue for me. I can safely turn up the settings as far as I like. I think its just a matter of learning to deal with them.


Ghosting is an issue, because it's annoying seeing double or triple, or instead of seeing a solid object you see a purple haze. Also it gets in the way of sharpness of the picture. I'm trying to deal with that by ignoring it, but that's not always possible.
It would be nice to be able to eliminate it altogether.


Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:10 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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gr0bd4 wrote:
It would be nice to be able to eliminate it altogether.

Yes, with some solutions it is possible. For example, HMDs or DLP projectors.

In your case, maybe new glasses might help the situation. I have heard that LG includes not so great glasses with the monitor. You can try the circular polarized glasses from here:
http://www.3dstereo.com/viewmaster/glp.html

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Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:17 am
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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DLP's don't ghost because of poor constrast and a lack of inky blacks. They have poor imaging. This lack of image quality masks the ghosting.

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Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:30 am
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Petrif-Eyed
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From Understanding Crosstalk in Stereoscopic Displays (PDF) :

Andrew Woods wrote:
DLPs have very good performance characteristics for time-sequential 3D display – in essence there is no crosstalk introduced by the actual DLP display itself. This is due to two key points: there is no phosphor decay (the DMD mirrors can switch completely from one state to another in ~2μs) and the entire image changes from one frame to the next at effectively the same time (hence crosstalk does not vary with screen position on DLPs except where the viewing angle through the LCS glasses might be different for viewing different parts of the screen). Ordinarily the only crosstalk present with time-sequential 3D on DLP is due to the LCS glasses.

Andrew Woods wrote:
The important contributors to crosstalk for time-sequential 3D on DLP are:
- the performance of the liquid crystal cells in the shutter glasses ;
- the timing of the shuttering of the glasses with respect to the display of images on the screen.
Andrew Woods wrote:
With a micro-polarised 3D LCD, the factors which contribute to crosstalk are:
- the optical quality of the micro-polariser film (and hence the quality of the two polarisation states) ;
- the accuracy of the alignment of the micro-polariser ‘strips’ to the rows of pixels on the display ;
- the pitch of the micro-polariser ‘strips’ relative to the pitch of rows of pixels on the display (which will determine the optimum viewing distance) ;
- the presence (or absence) of a black mask between micro-polariser ‘strips’ - the presence of black mask improves the size of the viewing zones but at the sacrifice of screen brightness ;
- the x-y position on the screen (different areas of the screen may exhibit more crosstalk than others) ;
- the viewing position of the observer (most current micro-pol monitors are highly sensitive to vertical viewing position, and also sensitive to the viewing distance from the monitor) ;
- the thickness of the front glass layer ;
- the orientation , optical quality, and optical match of the polarised 3D glasses (with respect to the output polarisation of the display.


Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:28 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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Okay then how about.

DLP's don't ghost because of poor constrast and a lack of inky blacks. They have poor imaging. This lack of image quality masks the ghosting thats induced by mis timing in the shutter glasses.

Thus DLP's are low ghosting and look like Sh--. I don't even consider them high definition displays.

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Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:20 pm
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Petrif-Eyed
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We are not comparing different display technologies on their respective image quality but on ghosting here. DLP may have poor contrast and bad black levels according to you, but it's nontheless the best display technology in respect to ghosting when excluding separated display technologies like HMDs.

And according to the Wikipedia entry, DLP is the current market-share leader in professional digital movie projection, largely because of its high contrast ratio and available resolution as compared to other digital front-projection technologies. It's also the technology that is used in RealD, Xpand and newer IMAX theatres for 3D movies.


Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:34 pm
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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I don't believe thats true about DLPs. Maybe you just saw a bad model or under sub-optimal conditions.

For example, this looks pretty good to me:


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Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:37 pm
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Petrif-Eyed
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Here are two reviews from "The TV Review" website for a DLP and a Plasma TV from 2010 :

Mitsubishi WD-60638 (DLP) :
- Black level : 0.08 cd/m2
- Brightness : 470 cd/m2
- Contrast : 4500:1

Panasonic VIERA TC-P50G25 (Plasma) :
- Black level : 0.04 cd/m2
- Brightness : 350 cd/m
- Contrast : 4000:1

Here is a ghosting comparison from 3DRoundup between the Samsung 42A450 (Plasma) and the Samsung HL-T6187S (DLP) :

Image


Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:53 pm
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Diamond Eyed Freakazoid!
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Wow, set these displays next to each other and then you'll understand how poor their image quality is. The DLP is easily the worst image quality. I wouldn't take one if some one tried to give it to me. Fredz, that 3D 42A450 plasma from Samsung is what model year? Its one of Samsungs' budget (cheap) models. Does Samsung even make DLP any more? I'm pretty sure they dumped that line. Why? They suck relative to newer tech. I will agree though that the professional grade Christie DLP look nice but they run oh I don't know for sure but lets say $175,000 USD. + or - $25,000 USD. Its not the same DLP thats available at the consumer level. I'm really suprised for 3D guys your even playing around with this junk. You need 2 superb images for great 3D. That requires contrast and inky blacks. And of course glasses that are timed correctly. There's some great 3D tech out there. These examples are not them.

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Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:28 am
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Chiefwinston wrote:
Wow, set these displays next to each other and then you'll understand how poor their image quality is. The DLP is easily the worst image quality.


What's up with DLP bashing? (besides being off topic) I have/ have had all 3 technologies, 50" Plasma LG, 55" LCD Sony & my poor broken 50" Sony Wega DLP from I believe 2006 or 04? Don't remeber now. I don't care what black levels DLP was producing or not, but it was producing the best picture, everytime people came over, they were like "WOW! that pictures looks awesome!" Me and others when watching high def content were mesmerized, how beatful the picture was. I've had to yet hear that statement about any of the other 2 tvs.


Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:14 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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I came to a definite conclusion that glasses for the monitor are the culprit that causes ghosting. After fiddling with them I was able to minimize the ghosting effect... by turning the glasses about 40 degrees on my face. Basicaly one of the things that stay on your ear (I don't know how you call that) I placed it below my left ear and the other was about 1" above my right ear (other way around would cause more ghosting). Yes, I know it looked "retarded", but it worked! and there was waaay less ghosting, to the point that I was playing like that the entire time!
Now if there was only a way to test the $30 a pop glasses that cyber posted somewhere in a link. Otherwise I'm not seeing myself buying each of the pairs untill I come across the one that is best.


Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:51 am
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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Heres the link to the glasses. You want to look for the *circular* polarized ones:
http://www.3dstereo.com/viewmaster/glp.html

Not sure if those will be better or worse, there are some for around $10 and up.

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Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:17 pm
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Certif-Eyable!
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I thought that most of the digital cinema projectors used DLP technology these days, and I've never had an issue there.


Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:09 pm
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