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 Need help reducing predicatable-color crosstalk. 
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One Eyed Hopeful
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The title says it all really. The good news is my symptoms are consistent. "Ghost outlines" mostly happen at a specific blue color range. Solid light-blue creates a sky-like outline that stays firmly in-place matching the stereoscopic separation. (it doesn't dart around) Solid dark-blues have a similar affect that's even more pronounced. I'm not seeing this happen with any other color spectrum or surface.

Here's my used equipment. I'm hoping someone can steer me towards calibration software and a guild how to use it.

Nvidia 3D vision 2 kit.
Acer GN246HL at 144Hz
i7 Processor and GTX 1070 Ti = Solid Framerate, so it's not performance.

3D Fix Manager and RivaTuner


It's most noticeable in Warframe, but there appears to be lighter instances of cross-talk elsewhere too. Here's hoping I can fix this. It's so close to looking perfect!


Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:00 am
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144hz? Have you tried 120Hz?

Sounds like a timing / overdrive related issue.

If the symptoms were a DLP projector, the cause would be obvious.

I bet adjusting the flash timing of the emitter would fix the issue. I think someone released a tool to allow you to do that in the old nvidia forums. I could never get it to work, but it would be what you're looking for IMO...

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Last edited by RAGEdemon on Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:03 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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The tool is here but I never understood how to tweak it. I believe it's supposed to be trial and error.

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Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:08 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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I did actually find that tool. Reducing to a 120Hz refresh rate is fine by my standard if it's an option. I suspect the monitor isn't really built to handle that timing without issues.

NvTimingsEd.exe
=
I have the suggested tool downloaded, but am leary of using it without actually knowing what I'm doing. I'm guessing ACR stands for ACER, and you can make new profiles that include the refresh rate of the monitor. But it would be good to get a confirmation on this before playing with settings I don't understand. heh!

Edit: Looks like I can indeed tweak the timings! :shutter :D Even so, I don't see any auto detect. So I'll want to figure out what timing is best for my brand of monitor, along with it's details. (I could just copy these values and up the refresh rate, but suspect it's hardly that simple.)

https://www.newegg.com/black-acer-gn246hl-bbid-3d-24/p/N82E16824009642


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Last edited by Luckarusky on Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:16 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Check the Nvidia control panel, in the adjust desktop color settings tab, make sure that it is set to other applications control color settings.

In the monitor OSD, make sure that the color temp isn't set to something weird like splendid or warm. It should be set to standard or isf.

Try unplugging the monitor power to reset it and make sure that the video cable connections are secure.

You might also check to see if there is an improved color profile available for download at the manufacturer's website or in Windows Update.


Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:49 am
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One Eyed Hopeful
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3DNovice wrote:
Check the Nvidia control panel, in the adjust desktop color settings tab, make sure that it is set to other applications control color settings.

In the monitor OSD, make sure that the color temp isn't set to something weird like splendid or warm. It should be set to standard or isf.

Try unplugging the monitor power to reset it and make sure that the video cable connections are secure.

You might also check to see if there is an improved color profile available for download at the manufacturer's website or in Windows Update.


I'll keep that in mind, but probably want to fix the timing first. I've tried setting my monitor to cool without any affect. It helps I now have an app that can set shutter variables, but am keen to make sure I set them correctly. I've found another set of tech-specs for my monitor. Now I need to figure out the formulas to match the glasses timing with the display.

https://www.cnet.com/products/acer-gn246hl-3d-led-monitor-full-hd-1080p-24/

So it looks like what I need now is the equations for figuring out the correct settings. Can't say algebra was my strength in college! heh... And I did check the monitor's OSD. It was set to standard.


Last edited by Luckarusky on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:35 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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Well, some good news and some bad news. The good news is the prescribed tool does indeed work. I was able to find the dlls, tweak them, and get clear results. The bad news is I made the crosstalk worse with those tweaks! :woot But at least now I know I can work the numbers. Returning to a 120 refresh rate helped ease eye-strain, but didn't restore the previous state with less crosstalk. So it's fairly definitive that there's something in the timing that makes or breaks the difference. The question is what?

(I am currently using a variant of the left-side example image. I just wish I could figure out an exact number instead of shooting in the dark. Surely there's a hint in my monitor's technical data.)


Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:21 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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I "might" have found a solution. Turns out the Nvidia control panel gives some numbers with it's custom resolutions. When I created one and applied, it says the resolution already exists. This is encouraging, because those numbers tell me what it's outputting at 120 refresh rate. This might be enough info to adjust the glasses accordingly. I'll post an image of it here.


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Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:37 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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Some additional information as to how I got the monitor's ID. I'm back to more or less where I was before now. So I know I've found the correct recognition. Now to figure out how to adjust the timing.


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Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:13 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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An update! I set the frame time value to something ridiculously different. and sure enough, got a very bazzar result. This is a good thing, because it means my settings are having an affect. I should note that you manually need to "encode" the values for them to be actually applied, and the monitor ID needs to be correct. God I wish this thing was better documented! heh! But at the very least I know I'm not doing nothing at this stage.

Edit
(I should also note you DON'T need to restart to see the affects of timing tweaks. Not doing so helps speed the testing process quite a bit! The procedure is to set a Z(Frame Time) buffer, Encode, Apply and then apply to the DLLs. Then launch the app and see the results. Rinse and repeat.)


Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:36 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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In the end, I was able to improve the cross-talk using the methods described in this thread. I wasn't able to eliminate it though, and that came down to my monitor's color timing. Acer as given me a special repair ticket with ample information supplied to a "miscellaneous" job. Hence I'll be interested to see what they can do alleviating the problem. Still, hopefully what I've dug up with this tool helps others experiencing less extreme versions of my problem.


Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:48 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful

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Just wanted to say thanks for keeping this thread up to date. A lot of people take what they need and don't report back so this is bound to help others at some point.


Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:17 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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russellk wrote:
Just wanted to say thanks for keeping this thread up to date. A lot of people take what they need and don't report back so this is bound to help others at some point.

A pleasure! I'll include the outcome of having sent the monitor in here. I'm REALLY hoping Acer does one of three things. Tweaks the timing and colors to be spot on, gives me custom access to factory settings, or replaces what I bought with something top-shelf. You'll hear when/if one of those three happen.


Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:04 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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Quick little update. I was able to get in contact with the technician who initially set up my case. The monitor is now on the relevent department's workbench. So I've got a uniquely insider feedback on what happens from here forward. I've used that to clarify my goals and provide any info they need. Here's hoping I get some answers to why the cross-talk occurs.

p.s. I presented the idea that the color timing is off, hence as why specific spectrum shades ghost predictability more over others. If nothing else, I'm hoping for restoration of access to factor-setting controls. If I am to hazard a guess though, they're going to either tweak the color-timing themselves or get me a new monitor with higher build quality.


Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:40 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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The techs where not able to turn up anything. That said, I got all my gear back, and some new glasses as well. And yep! The convergence is WAY less with this pair than it was before. There's still a little bit, but now I have tools to weed out the remainder that I couldn't before.


Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:49 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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Another update, and probably the last one unless someone has further feedback. First of all, both glasses are now working. I should note though, I reverted to the last Nvidia drivers that officially supported the system. I also installed the drivers as a separate, fresh copy. so there might have been some residual data. Finally, I installed "NVIDIA_3D_Vision_v266.21_driver" which is related to the sensor.

It appears to have done the trick. I'm still getting ghosting, but nowhere near as bad as before. I'm trying some last tweaks, but think I'm more or less as close as I'll get for now. Here's a screenshot of the "scale" option on the tool if it helps. Basicly it scales everything to the max shutter time's scale.


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Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:18 pm
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One Eyed Hopeful
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At the end of all of this, I reverted the timing back to normal using a similar monitor in the same brand as reference. That said though, I've reached the point crosstalk is almost unnoticeable. And the tool wasn't useless, because it allowed me to solve another annoyance. (The switched-around eyes in the test.) Here are the things I did to acomplish all that.

1: I did a "clean" install of "425.31-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql" without the Nvidia Experience software. That way it doesn't update.
2: Don't forget to set your "power preference" back to max performance. That setting will be erased here.
3: Installed "NVIDIA_3D_Vision_v266.21_driver" to make sure the IR sensor was being noticed by the system.
4: I limited the 3D affect to 30%. While I'd like to go higher, that appears to be the magic sweet spot for max-depth without cross-talk.
5: I'm not sure if it helped or not, but I was able to get the correct eyes firing by changing the glasses command order. (It could have been the drivers though.)

One way or another, I've figured out how to identify and use a monitor for the Timing Tool. That, and solved the crosstalk problem. At this point, I'm calling the problem solved. Open to conjecture how to get more depth without cross-talk, but otherwise it's set!


Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:30 am
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Two Eyed Hopeful
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    If you hate the eyes being reversed and don't want to set any settings (possibly per game), you can use 3D Vision Eye Swapper. It ensures the registry has the eyes swapped from what you're seeing now to the "reverse-reverse". I know you solved it, but this will help if it ever comes back.

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Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:42 am
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