Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Free

bgnome
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Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Free

Post by bgnome »

Disclaimer:
First thing I would like to mention is that this is a totally legitimate method and only requires you to install 2 spoofed "drivers" . You will not be obtaining any illegal software or modifying the Nvidia drivers in any way, so this method should likely work for future revisions of the 3D Vision drivers as well.

Requirements: Background:
I purchased the E3D320VX this week intending to use it as a 3D monitor for my PC as well as my PS3. I have never owned a 3D display before but those of you familiar with the Zalman series and Xpol passive film patterned retarder tech will not see anything new here. 1080P on a 32" allows for a small enough dot pitch where the 3D image quality does not suffer as much from the "scanline effect" as it does on the larger passive displays. Caveats are similar to Zalman: Limited vertical viewing angle for 3d effect - ghosting issues when outside the "zone", and a visible "interlaced" effect on anything that is only a few pixels tall, such as text (only occurs with glasses, FPR lines slightly visible on 2D use but does not impair image quality). Unit lacks an adjustable stand but for $500 USD, I won't complain much.
I could enable Stereoscopic Mode on the Nvidia control panel and the demo would work. However, games would not play in s3d and 3DTV Play would not initialize, trial or not. IZ3D 1.13 Beta worked in SBS, Horizontal Interleaved, and Zalman mode with varying degrees of ghosting and other abnormalities.

Procedure:
  1. Make sure you have the latest 3D Vision drivers installed. http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
  2. Install DSF Kit or you can choose the 32bit or 64 bit version that comes with Alexpk's script. Run Init.bat for 32 bit or Init_x64.bat for 64 bit to set up the correct device IDs. Run enablestereo.bat to "plug in" an emulated USB hub and 3D Vision emitter. This process may require multiple reboots. If the emitter is not being recognized, try older 3D vision drivers or the standalone cd download. Also some good advice here: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 0&start=30
  3. Make sure the script window is still open, then open Device Manager (under Control Panel) to confirm the 3D Vision Emitter is successfully installed and "plugged in" under USB controllers.
  4. Keeping Device Manager open, click on the Monitor category. Mine was a Generic PnP Monitor. Update the driver through the "Have Disc" method using Brad's modified inf. Detailed instructions on the site: http://blog.bagearon.com/?p=38
  5. After rebooting, run the enablestero.bat again (I use a shortcut in my Startup folder) and go in to the Nvidia control panel. Click on the Enable Stereoscopic 3D option and go through the setup wizard. You should now have 3DTV Play enabled with the logo visible on the Nvidia control panel.
Results:
3DTV Play requires me to manually accept 3D mode through the display, as opposed to IZ3D interleaved/Zalman mode, but I saw a major boost in framerate and minimal ghosting as compared to IZ3D. This method does take some finagling but the end result was very impressive. Hopefully 3DTV Play will lose these ridiculous requirements in the future, but in the mean time, enjoy!

*Edit*
Tip: As mentioned, you can create a shortcut in your Starttup folder to have enablestereo.bat run when Windows starts.
To have the command window minimized when run, edit the enablestereo.bat file, (notepad should work), and change "start cscript enablestereo.wsf" to "start /min cscript enablestereo.wsf".

*Edit #2*
It has been about a year since I posted this and it looks like Nvidia has finally caught on to our shenanigans. Current Geforce drivers will not allow the emulated USB emitter device to initialize. The most current version of the USB emitter driver that still works from some quick testing appears to be from 285.38 drivers. You can download them from the Nvidia website and do a custom install of the USB emitter drivers only, or if you use Windows 7 x64, I have attached a copy of the drivers in this post:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 696#p73696

Also, as I recall, my display was whitelisted for 3DTV Play roughly a month after I submitted the EDID information. If you have a currently unsupported HDMI 1.4a device, I would suggest that you submit your EDID as well.
http://3dvision-blog.com/5189-how-to-he ... 3dtv-play/
Last edited by bgnome on Fri May 25, 2012 8:53 am, edited 4 times in total.

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cybereality
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by cybereality »

Very nice work man. However I still don't understand why this wouldn't work out-of-box. If Nvidia were truly supporting the standard, they wouldn't need to add "profiles" for specific HDTVs. Either it supports HDMI 1.4, or it doesn't. There really isn't any in between. I mean, its not like Sony has to add support for each HDTV into the PS3. PS3 works automatically in 3D with any HDMI 1.4 compliant HDTV. Thats the way it should be.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

I agree with you 100%. Nvidia drivers "should" work out-of-the-box with any HDMI 1.4 compliant 3D display as all 3DTV Play should be doing is enabling the standardized frame-packing output at 720p 60Hz or 1080p 24Hz.

However, in practice, it looks like Nvidia is "white-listing" devices. I would guess that this ensures an "optimal customer experience" with tested and approved hardware. Just like having the 3D Vision emitter plugged in, which is completely useless, it seems completely unreasonable to me to require.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by BHawthorne »

bgnome wrote:I agree with you 100%. Nvidia drivers "should" work out-of-the-box with any HDMI 1.4 compliant 3D display as all 3DTV Play should be doing is enabling the standardized frame-packing output at 720p 60Hz or 1080p 24Hz.

However, in practice, it looks like Nvidia is "white-listing" devices. I would guess that this ensures an "optimal customer experience" with tested and approved hardware. Just like having the 3D Vision emitter plugged in, which is completely useless, it seems completely unreasonable to me to require.
Translation: NVIDIA wants license revenue in order for hardware to be added to the certified list. It's a really bad habit NVIDIA has. SLI lockouts, PhysX lockout, 3D Vision lockouts and now HDMI 1.4a lockouts. I think someone needs to sit down with Andrew Fear and properly explain to him the issue from the consumer's perspective.
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by crim3 »

I agree, but the very rich people's perspective is stronger.
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by cybereality »

Its going to be hard for Nvidia to maintain this position as the AMD solution matures. People will just move to the company that is providing a better service for less money.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by BHawthorne »

I'm interested in seeing how HDMI 1.4a plays out in the market in comparison to DP 1.2. HDMI is really turning out to be an AV port while DP is supposed to be the real DVI replacement according to VESA.
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cybereality
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by cybereality »

Well DP will at least let us game in 1080P+ 3D, how much longer do we have to wait for HDMI to catch up?

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by Darcoder »

Hi,
I try it while installing on my notebook ( alienware m17x R3 with GTX485m ) but stereoscopic option is still not showed on Panel Control. After updating with the .inf file, My 120Hz dissapear from option.. but I force to come back. Are there other way for beeing able to have some 3D on my Alienware? Thanks for help.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

Darcoder wrote:Hi,
I try it while installing on my notebook ( alienware m17x R3 with GTX485m ) but stereoscopic option is still not showed on Panel Control. After updating with the .inf file, My 120Hz dissapear from option.. but I force to come back. Are there other way for beeing able to have some 3D on my Alienware? Thanks for help.
this .inf file is meant for 3DTV Play, which does not support 120Hz timing. You should use moninfo, http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, to force an override for your particular laptop screen, if necessary.

You should be using 3D Vision without 3DTV Play. I would suggest trying a clean install of the 270.61 WHQL Drivers. Use the custom installation option to ensure that you are installing all the 3D Vision components, (the base drivers as well as the emitter driver since that is now included). another complication could be your optimus driver interfering with 3D Vision, however I have no experience with this.

PS: Looks like Nvidia just updated the compatability list with support for my E3D320VX!

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by Darcoder »

i use right know a back up of my screen^^.
I can't do a clean instal of driver, they didn't work, i need to mod it and i do it, also i know the driverr are all full working as when i switch gpu to gtx460m, 3D works^^.
It,s only with the GTX485m, we don,t know why, Stereoscopic doesn't want to be showed on Panel control. It appears only if we put a 120Hz screen on HDmi 1.4.
Also, as I got a 120Hz screen, Optimus isn't working on that system.
When I put the GTX460m, on panel control a 3D category appear named: Alienware 3D vision. But Nothing with GTX485m :/

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

according to this:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienwa ... ssion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3dvision does not currently work on the gtx 485m.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by Darcoder »

I know, I worked with them xD

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by wicked20 »

Thanks bgnome for the great info. I have the same Vizio 3d as yours but only can get the Nvidia 3D test working but not any games. How did you get it to work. The Nvidia 3D keyboard assignments button is greyed out.

For iz3d how did you get that to work, which options, Zalman interlaced (optimized) or SBS (Left/Right) or Over/Under? Mine keeps saying can't load output dll. Which 3D settings on the TV to use: SBS?

I appreciate any helps.

Thanks so much again.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

Nvidia has updated the 3DTV Play compatability with the E3D320VX:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play- ... river.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The keyboard assignments button being grayed out is indicative of 3D Vision / 3DTV Play not actually running. Try to update compatibility using the link I posted. If you tried the monitor override inf, delete it by going in to Device Manager, uninstalling the monitor as well as choosing the "delete driver" option. This should clear the registry info and allow the Nvidia drivers to read your original edid.

I did not have any problems with IZ3D not loading. Zalman mode worked best, and i think "optimized" involves some extra post processing. SBS and Over/Under worked as well after setting the TV to 3D, but I had mouse issues, (you have a hard time clicking on things because of the half screens).

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by eghost355 »

Hi! I have a older GPU (9600GSO in SLI). Will this method allow me to use 3DTV Play on them as well?
What I want is to enable 3D output to my polarized 3D LCD TV. Nothing fancy so I don't want to buy a new card just for it. Please help! Thanks a lot!

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by cybereality »

eghost355 wrote:Hi! I have a older GPU (9600GSO in SLI). Will this method allow me to use 3DTV Play on them as well?
What I want is to enable 3D output to my polarized 3D LCD TV. Nothing fancy so I don't want to buy a new card just for it. Please help! Thanks a lot!
Not sure if Nvidia will work, but you could also try the IZ3D or DDD drivers. Both of those work well with interlaced displays.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

eghost355 wrote:Hi! I have a older GPU (9600GSO in SLI). Will this method allow me to use 3DTV Play on them as well?
What I want is to enable 3D output to my polarized 3D LCD TV. Nothing fancy so I don't want to buy a new card just for it. Please help! Thanks a lot!
does 3d vision work with your card? it is not listed under the reqs for 3dtv play, so maybe there is another whitelist or some sort of hdcp/hdmi rewuirement.

i know iz3d and ddd provide a decent interlaced option. i wonder if you could use the zalman stereoscopic driver: http://www.nvidia.com/object/stereo-3d- ... river.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you would need a monitor override inf to get the drivers to think you had a zalman monitor though. i wonder if someone with a zalman monitor would be kind enough to make one or post the edid.. ;)

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by FabioMC »

I was able to use the emulator but suddendly it stopped working... when I run enablestereo.bat (cscript enablestereo.wsf) it gives me in the command line the error "d:\1\enablestereo.wsf(53, 16) Microsoft VBScript Runtime Error: O
ActiveX component can't create object: 'DSF.DSF' I tried reinstalling all, including a fresh new win7 x64. But no luck. Any help ?? TKS

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by crim3 »

Have you launch the 'runme_once' batch file?
If so, you may also try to run enablestereo.bat as administrator.
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by gixer »

hi all i was using the 3d vision hub emulator on my old 3dtv with no probs but obviously being checkerboard i could'nt upgrade to 3dtv play.i have now upgraded to a hdmi 1.4 3dtv,i ran the emulator again and it upgraded to 3dtv play,what i need to know is do i still need to run the usb emulator to use 3dtv play cos when i start a game without the emulator running it reports it's in 3d but it doesn't look like it and changing the depth seems to have no effect
thanks gixer
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

3dtv play still checks for the usb emitter if you have not activated it by paying the license fee. so you need to have the emulator running and the resolution set to 720p60Hz or 1080p24Hz in order to get stereoscopic 3d working.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by artox »

Hey guys, I've tested this hack and it worked on my Panasonic Vt20e, however there was a big problem and I had to use system restore to fix it. I use the Tv through a Yamaha 7.1 receiver, when I installed the hack the receiver got recognized as a Denon stereo receiver. Any ideas as to why this may have happened. I aim to test again in the future, but if this can't be fixed it is really unusable to me :(

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by artox »

Guess no one is using a receiver :)

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

its because the edid being used in the custom inf is from a denon receiver. what you need to do is use moninfo to get the audio settings from your receiver and import them in to your own inf. if your receiver is not whitelisted by nvidia, you will need to use one that is and edit from there.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by artox »

Thanks, bgnome
my receiver is listed by Nvidia, but is a 7.1 Yamaha RZX receiver. I'll try and do what you suggested :)

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by sytstp »

The enabling method discussed here works well with 3Dvision video, etc. except that I could not play 3d Blu-Ray.

My setup : Nvidia GeForce GTX 550Ti/TMT5 or PDVD 11/3d .iso files ripped by AnyDVD HD/Hisense HDMI 1.4a compliant 3DTV(with Samsung LED panel, 60Hz input and 120Hz by interpolation).

I could enable 1080p24Hz in my Hisense 3DTV and successfully play the Nvidia 3D stuff but blu-ray 3d films (Sammy Adventure,etc) showed no 3d effect even when 3d was enabled in TMT5. Even worse in PDVD11: the program feedbacked that my HDMI 1.4 display is not supported.

Any idea ?

I suspect the EDID inf file for Denon Receiver cannot support 3D Blu-Ray. Anyone playing 3D Blu-Ray with it successfully?

Anyone kind enough to offer a suitable EDID inf file for 3D Blu-Ray?

Cheers,
Stewart

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

what do you mean by "Nvidia 3D stuff"?
the 3d stereoscopic demo is misleading because it does not actually require 3DTV Play when it runs. so you can run the demo without 3DTV Play working at all.

PDVD is a different beast. assuming that you really do have 3DTV working correctly, you need to have PDVD output 3D in the correct mode for your display. i use interlaced output since my screen is passive. i do not use 3DTV Play output with PDVD.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by sytstp »

Thanks bgnome.

I mean I can play 3d videos in the Nvidia "3d vision live" site.

I've just found that the problem of playing Blu-ray might be due to two independent reasons, perhaps (I'm not so sure) :
1.that my iso files captured by older versions of AnyDVD HD can't output 3d;
2. I have to tweak the "manage 3d settings" in the Nvidia control panel. The key is to set "maximum pre-rendered frames" of TMT5 to 5 rather than the default of 3. I don't know why, but perhaps it is related to frame interpolation because my 3dtv is native 60hz but it automatcially interpolates to 120hz, a function that could not be turned off.

Anyway I could now play 3d blu-ray in TMT5 with my original Blu-ray disc in my BD RW in my PC. I could also play new 3d ISOs ripped by the newer versions of AnyDVD HD.

Even the above two-prong approach does not work with PDVD11. Like you said, PDVD is a different beast and it does not recognise/support my HDMI 1.4 display . Interesting enough, in the working TMT5 I just chose "Nvidia 3d Vision Ready Display" which includes "HDMI 1.4 3D TV".

Anyone knows how to tweak PDVD for 3d output to HDMI 1.4 dispaly?

Cheers,
Stewart

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by sytstp »

Oop! Commented too early.

My above hypotheses are simply wrong!
The fault rests with the DISC itself. I could play "Resident Evil Afterlife" all right but "Sammys Adventure" just refuses to render 3d effects.

What are the format differences of these two discs?
Could a disc fail to render 3d effect if it is copied imporperly?

Cheers,
Stewart

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by sytstp »

Update : both discs play 3D in a BD player connected to my IDTV without problem.

So the problem is : Nvidia GeForce GTX 550Ti + 3DTV + HDMI 1.4 IDTV can't play 3D effects for some BD discs in my PC.

Why?
Any remedies?

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by DeathTripp »

First off, thanks for this thread.I used it to get the 3D working on my GTX 460 with my VIZIO M3D421SR.

The thing is, now I have sizable input lag; even when switching back to 2D.

It's mainly the mouse that is really noticeable, but even the keyboard is. I think I remember the lag starting right after installing the 3D IR emitter emulator. Maybe it is somehow making my USB port think it has less power left than it does?

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by DeathTripp »

I just undid the EDID override, and the input lag I described is now gone.

Well damn, I switch the EDID to get 3D on my tv which was listed on the NVIDIA websit and it gives me input lag.

I guess I will have to figure something else out; this method gives me an unacceptable amount of input lag.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

Since it looks like your tv is a passive display, you will likely have better luck with the zalman spoof that buttmunch posted here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=115&t=13821" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you do not need to use the usb emulator, but it knocks out hdmi audio and restricts you to 1080p only for s3d.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by DeathTripp »

I greatly appreciate the reply bgnome, and you are correct it is a passive display.

I'll give it a shot soon here, and let results be known.

As a side note, are there any dangers of messing up my equipment when overriding the EDID of a TV or monitor??

I mean, is there any way you can "brick" it like a Nintendo Wii when messing with firmware and things like that?

Just wanted a bit more info.

Thanks again!

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by DeathTripp »

I'm in business now. I can do 1080p @ 24 hz or 720p @ 60 hz just fine, and I merged the extension block from my TV's EDID with the Zalman and HDMI audio works like a charm too.

I'm still learning, and have obviously learned that games are a no go at 1080p @ 24hz because of input lag, even with Game Mode on my TV. It's either 720p @ 60 hz at 42 inches, or 1080p @ 60hz at 25 inches for around the same price is what I find. I'm usually a resolution freak but I'll take the bigger one I believe. =D

Thanks.

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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by Joker18 »

Can someone please tell me in which format is the signal sent to the TV.
I did the steps in the tutorial, it work, but my LW5500 recognises automaticly 3d image and restricts some settings. Game mode is not available when 3D is on and there is some input lag that I don't know how to correct from expert mode (which is available).

There is no ghosting at all with 3DTV play(720P@60hz) but there is a big fluctuation of FPS (in Black ops) and input Lag.
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by bgnome »

3DTV Play currently only supports framepacking format, hence the 720p60/1080p24 limitation. Using the Zalman EDID locks it to 1080P interleaved using 3D Vision.

The TVs usually limit settings when in 3D mode. You can try accessing the service menu, but buttmunch has had limited success with LG in that regard. The Zalman EDID will likely alleviate the input lag since the PC is handling the image processing instead of the TV.

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Joker18
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by Joker18 »

Thank you.
I also tried the Zalman EDID but it limits 3D to 1080p and I had tons of ghosting.
3D Gamer using Avegant Glyph & LG 65E6V
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Joker18
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Re: Tutorial: Enable 3DTV Play on any HDMI 1.4 Device for Fr

Post by Joker18 »

Question:
What is the screen size in this EDID? Can I modify the setting for screensize in 3DTVplay?
3D Gamer using Avegant Glyph & LG 65E6V
No hidden talents.

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