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 The iZ3D Driver + Shutter Glasses Thread 
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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Well, my friends, iZ3D have finally released the fabled Shutter Glasses Driver (BETA) Available from their main website - Free 30 Day Trial:

http://iz3d.com/download

This is what most of us have been waiting for.

I hope we can use this thread to come together and post our experiences, and report/solve bugs and issues.

I, for one, am glad to be once again dusting off my ED glasses and booting up my projector... we have been seperated for far too long.

/me sheds a tear...


Copying from the iZ3D forum: BlackQ is once again with us to shed light on all the features:

( 1.09 Forum can be found Here: http://forum.iz3d.com/viewforum.php?f=20)

=============

List of added outputs (just as reminder):


3D DLP Output - checkerboard format - suitable for Samsung and Mitshubishi 3D DLP TV

Interlaced Output - line by line vertically - suitable for Zalman, Optroniq, Samsung Plasma 3D TV, Mitshubishi Plasma 3D TV

iZ3D Shutter Output - marked shutter (spec of marking is below) - suitable for shutter based devices
http://iz3d.com/download/files/MarkingSpecXml.zip

Dual Projection Output - same as it was before (left and right) - suitable for dual input HMD and projectors based 3D

Simple Shutter Output - non marked shutter (LRLRLR...) - suitable for shutter based devices

StereoMirror Output - Left and Mirrored Right - suitable for Planar 3D display

VR920 - output based on VR920 API - suitable for VR920 device

Please read carefully list of known bugs in next post, before reporting to us

==========

Post 2:

Most of them we'll correct on Monday

1. 64 bit apps in 64 bit OS work unstable

2. Description (screenshots) and troubleshooting are not finally updated

3. Ogre test image has reversed eyes - oops... Smile

4. Change Log is not final yet (of course)

5. VERY IMPORTANT - please don't close driver or restart system if you choose output different than iZ3D - it may require driver re-install

6. Icon on taskbar does not work correctly

OK - and finally I think this beta and your interest to 3D is the best gift for my birthday : Very Happy

==================

Happy Birthday BlackQ!

-- Shahzad.

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:42 pm
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Petrif-Eyed
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awesome news, will test em out shortly.

btw the changelog:

http://iz3d.com/download/files/ChangeLog.pdf

Quote:
Version 1.08.0015 – 2008.08.29
[+] Added profile for Warhammer Online.
[!] OblivionMonoMatrixCheck, RenderInMonoForIndentityVWMatrices replaced by
MonoFixedPipelineCheckingMethodIndex.
[!] Multiple simultaneously device support added.
[!] Updated LOTRO profile.
[f] Fixed NPC strip in AoC.
[f] Some bugs fixed in CC.
Version 1.08.0014 – 2008.08.20
[!] Control Center redesigned.
[!] Driver optimized.
[+] Added Alone In The Dark profile.
[+] Added GTA: San Andreas profile.
[!] Shader matrix search improved.
[f] Fixed FSX, WIC, GoW profile.
[f] Fixed run Steam games with different resolution.
Version 1.08.0007 – 2008.07.21
[+] Added Spore Creature Creator profile.
[+] QuickTime Player added to exclusions list.
[f] Fixed bug with Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield.
Version 1.08.0005 – 2008.07.18
[+] Added Test Drive Unlimited, D&D Online, SAMURAI WARRIORS 2 profile.
[!] Removed key DontCreateRightTextureInWideMode.
[f] Fixed bug with House of Dead 3.
[f] Fixed Gears of War profile.
[f] Fixed OSD in Assassin's Creed.
[f] Fixed bug with some DX8 games.
Version 1.08.0003 – 2008.07.10
[+] Added EQ, GTA San Andreas profile.
[+] Added message when output dll can't be loaded.
[!] All strings now may localize.
[f] Fixed WoW Alt-Tab crash.
[f] Fixed "Half-Life 2 Episode Two" profile.
Version 1.08.0001 – 2008.06.30
[+] Added laser sight.
[+] Added API that allow disable driver for specific game.
[!] D3D9 driver minor optimizations.
[!] Optimized StretchRect method on NVidia.
[!] Setup now require close programs that use driver.
[!] For reducing video memory usage changed Crysis profile..
[!] Setup localized.
[!] RHW modification optimized.
[!] Auto-focus optimized.
[!] Unified driver names conversion.
[f] Fixed bug with video players.


from what I gather version 1.08.XX is the 1.09 beta. The list of changes combined with the added output makes for an impressive read indeed :)

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:11 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
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Hi Yuriy,

The IR Emitter doesn't work. The DDC signal shows 5V constant instead of a square wave averaging ~ 2.5V. Might you be able to confirm?

Checking connections now.

Thanks! :P

Update:

Oscilloscope shows 0Hz on the DDC line. Looks like the driver doesn't generate a square wave for shutter glasses to sync with.

I think the driver was never intended to do this? Would it be difficult?

Tried ED.exe but to no avail.

Would hate to go about making a hardware solution... there HAS to be a way to generate one in software to sync to the refresh rate.

Maybe I'm just doing something wrong.

-- Shahzad

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Last edited by RAGEdemon on Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:43 pm
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Petrif-Eyed
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RAGEdemon wrote:
Hi Yuriy,

The IR Emitter doesn't work. The DDC signal shows 5V constant instead of a square wave averaging ~ 2.5V. Might you be able to confirm?

Checking connections now.

Thanks! :P


sorry I have the wired version

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:32 pm
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I've tried with the wired too, and the Elsa revelators.

Do the Glasses work for you with the driver?

AFAIK, most glasses use the DDC signal, wired or wireless.

Some glasses use a signal right at the beginning of the frame... it's like a bar. The decoding hardware waits for this sequence to sync to.

Hugo over at the iZ3D forum seems to have the same issue...

Meh... was hoping to get some shutter gaming going tonight to reminisce on times past :p

Well, 5am here... think I'll continue tomorrow if someone cleverer than myself has come up with a solution :P

-- Shahzad.

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:15 pm
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It seems we need some sort of dongle. It works for me in some areas and not in others.

Did you try interlaced? No problems with that.

RAGEdemon wrote:
I've tried with the wired too, and the Elsa revelators.

Do the Glasses work for you with the driver?

AFAIK, most glasses use the DDC signal, wired or wireless.

Some glasses use a signal right at the beginning of the frame... it's like a bar. The decoding hardware waits for this sequence to sync to.

Hugo over at the iZ3D forum seems to have the same issue...

Meh... was hoping to get some shutter gaming going tonight to reminisce on times past :p

Well, 5am here... think I'll continue tomorrow if someone cleverer than myself has come up with a solution :P

-- Shahzad.


Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:44 pm
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I am glad it works for you.

Earlier, interlaced didn't work for me.

I tried again but it gives me an error that there are 0 days left on trial and I need to activate it... I only installed the driver last night.

I tried to buy the driver but the activation page only asks for username and password... there doesn't seem to be a way to buy an activation code.

All other modes work without the activation dialogue popping up. Have tried uninstall/install.


Well, Its a BETA... I'm sure they will get the bugs fixed starting Monday :p

-- Shahzad.

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:12 pm
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I've got two different shutter glasses. The Another Eye 2000 and the eDimensional glasses. The Another Eye 2000 don't need the signal on the DDC pin. They only use the signal from the VSYNC pin. The eDimensional glasses, as far as I know, need a square wave on the DDC pin to work.

I tried the driver in interlaced and it works on my crt with the Another Eye 2000.

I tried the shutter glasses mode on my crt with the Anoter Eye 2000 at 85 Hz. They keep sync if the load is light but they don't if the load is high. The sync works well for the dynamic test from iZ3D that shows a spinning logo. The sync is broken with Gears of War. The fps is probably slower than the refresh rate in Gears of War and the swapping of the left/right frames happens at the speed of the fps. I have a GeForce 8600 (weak card) so it might work if you have a better card that can easily keep the fps at the refresh rate.

Unfortunately, the shutter glasses driver can't switch the frames at a rate faster than the refresh rate like the original NVIDIA driver could (at least that's what I saw with my limited testing) so it means that you need a powerful video card if you want the sync to be kept or you need to play old games.

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:28 pm
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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Tril wrote:
I've got two different shutter glasses. The Another Eye 2000 and the eDimensional glasses. The Another Eye 2000 don't need the signal on the DDC pin. They only use the signal from the VSYNC pin. The eDimensional glasses, as far as I know, need a square wave on the DDC pin to work.

I tried the driver in interlaced and it works on my crt with the Another Eye 2000.

I tried the shutter glasses mode on my crt with the Anoter Eye 2000 at 85 Hz. They keep sync if the load is light but they don't if the load is high. The sync works well for the dynamic test from iZ3D that shows a spinning logo. The sync is broken with Gears of War. The fps is probably slower than the refresh rate in Gears of War and the swapping of the left/right frames happens at the speed of the fps. I have a GeForce 8600 (weak card) so it might work if you have a better card that can easily keep the fps at the refresh rate.

Unfortunately, the shutter glasses driver can't switch the frames at a rate faster than the refresh rate like the original NVIDIA driver could (at least that's what I saw with my limited testing) so it means that you need a powerful video card if you want the sync to be kept or you need to play old games.


Even the most powerful video cards will occasionally dip below 85fps on most recent games when encountering complex scenes, plus running in S3D mode will cause a significant fps drop too compared to 2D mode. (Also, many people can feel flickering at 42.5Hz per eye, so ideally we want to run at 100Hz+) So it seems like a pretty big problem, i.e. in most cases we'd really need some new hardware dongle that recognize the "IZ3D marked sync mode" to keep in sync?

At least if it works in interlaced mode, then we're no worse than the Zalman monitor :lol:


Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:59 pm
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I think this is a non-issue.

The nvidia card always sends out a constant square wave, and these glasses detect a constant vsync pulse. Both these things are always enabled, no matter how low the performance of a card gets.

The problem that is being seen is most likely a driver glitch that will be easily sorted. There is nothing stopping the graphics card producing the square wave or vsync pulse even if it is chugging along at 1 frame per second since the signal generation is so low level that it costs virtually no performance hit.

IMO, I honestly don't think we need to worry about it :P

-- Shahzad.

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:19 am
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Meh... 2 1.09 threads in the same section... not good :P

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:12 am
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No luck with Revelator on Vista 64 Crossfire 2x4870, the revelator doesn´t flicker.

I tried simple and marked. Should they flicker and then unsynch?


Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:09 am
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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I haven't tried the drivers myself yet, have no time atm, but from what I'm reading here the results seem quite similar to kingdragon's openstereo driver. With that driver I used to use the ED activator to activate the glasses and it worked, but I had the same losing sync when framerate drops issue.

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:02 am
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I have download the driver and wish to test my ED Shutter glasses (wired) and dongle, I ahve download the software and can get Analgpyh to work? but not shutter glasses the support isn't there, Is there a way I can switch this on if so how

Cheers
Stu :)


Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:38 am
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You have to make a full install. There is an option in the install menue


Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:04 am
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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RAGEdemon wrote:
I think this is a non-issue.

The nvidia card always sends out a constant square wave, and these glasses detect a constant vsync pulse. Both these things are always enabled, no matter how low the performance of a card gets.

The problem that is being seen is most likely a driver glitch that will be easily sorted. There is nothing stopping the graphics card producing the square wave or vsync pulse even if it is chugging along at 1 frame per second since the signal generation is so low level that it costs virtually no performance hit.

IMO, I honestly don't think we need to worry about it :P

-- Shahzad.


To the contrary, I think we do, and this is a massive issue. You may think its easy to do this but speaking to Vadim what he is saying makes sense. iz3D simply do not have the same access to the same low level routines to interrupt the rendering process that nVidia do, and I assume they keep this close to their chest for business reasons. The bottom line is though in my opinion it was _completely_ pointless releasing a 'simple shutter output' that can not at least guarantee every second frame is for an alternate eye (so you can sync on the v-sync, just flip a switch to correct l/r eye and it will stay in sync after that until gameplay stops). I am very concerned and disappointed that even this requirement is not met but hopefully this can be fixed next week by using some sort of hardware pageflipping?

I for one will be devastated (and frustrated at having just spent a fortune on a decent card and set of CrystalEyes for my projector rig) if the simple shutter mode falls flat on its arse. I wanted to have a look at the possibility of a hardware dongle for the marked shutter output but we've been told very little here - what is the meaning of the XML file? It this the pixel values of the top or bottom rows? How is this file to be interpretted? Is this information on every single frame? (as it would need to be to guarantee the L and R frames never swap over if hardware page flipping is not being used).

I really hope we can all find a solution that works and pronto, many of us have waited months for the release of this functionality and it appears first hand to be completely useless :(

Not meaning to be ranty, I'm just very disappointed... iz3d made quite a big thing about the shutter support saying they couldnt support it because of 'sync issues'. Then they state they have a simple shutter output, and after the long wait you'd expect to have seen something other than just sending alternating L/R images to the frame buffer with no guaranteed ordering - As my understanding goes, thats nothing really that they didnt have already all along. So, it does beg the question what is it iz3d have actually done? I ws concerned to hear they hadnt even tested this functionality in their labs other than 'checking on a monitor that a page-flipped image was being displayed'; obviously that is going to tell you nothing!

Really we need to get the info on how the nVidia s3d driver is managing to send out the ddc signal and have iz3d do the same. If iz3d claim to not have 'access to those APIs' there should be some way to work around it - even tracing the execution flow of the nVidia driver to see what low-level API calls it is making and replicate them - iz3D have a lab full of developers so surely someone there has the technical nouce to do this?


Last edited by chrisjarram on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:28 am
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staticbuddha wrote:
I have download the driver and wish to test my ED Shutter glasses (wired) and dongle, I ahve download the software and can get Analgpyh to work? but not shutter glasses the support isn't there, Is there a way I can switch this on if so how

Cheers
Stu :)


Dont waste your time, it wont work!


Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:42 am
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For shutters:
It is so big problem incorporate in the frame one block of pixels for activation of ED glasses? (as ED activator , only for new cards and VISTA)?

It is possibility of use sync pulses synchronisation created syntetic DDC signal for glases? (on VGA this is no problem), than the only necesarry next thing is rendering L and R frames (and this is no problem for drivers).
The synchronisation of glasses is depending only from sync.of frames.

It is possible only rendering with driver, and controling of glasses totally driver independent. Hope this is a way.


Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:20 am
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Hello! It waited for with great anxiety drivers for shutter´s of IZ3D! 1 But that deception! Years hoping to improve fps….I have one 7900 GS, and my stereo works well but I need some pictures per second and, CALL OF DUTY, GRID, DIRT, ETC CANNOT SUPPORT THEM IN 1280 Xs 1024 Lamentably drivers works really badly! For example. it does not allow nor that executes rFactor, and some the more! In addition I have one 9600 gt and so it hoped to be able to play the modern games with acceptable fps, nothing! they want to eliminate shutter´s by economic convenience? nVidia is not going to remove drivers stereo for the 9600 gt? very I am really disappointed, and by all means these drivers… of iz3d would buy them never!


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:14 am
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Two words for you: "Beta Drivers". :D

Regards,
Neil


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:32 am
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Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!

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marpel wrote:
Hello! It waited for with great anxiety drivers for shutter´s of IZ3D! 1 But that deception! Years hoping to improve fps….I have one 7900 GS, and my stereo works well but I need some pictures per second and, CALL OF DUTY, GRID, DIRT, ETC CANNOT SUPPORT THEM IN 1280 Xs 1024 Lamentably drivers works really badly! For example. it does not allow nor that executes rFactor, and some the more! In addition I have one 9600 gt and so it hoped to be able to play the modern games with acceptable fps, nothing! they want to eliminate shutter´s by economic convenience? nVidia is not going to remove drivers stereo for the 9600 gt? very I am really disappointed, and by all means these drivers… of iz3d would buy them never!


You're not the only one! Hopefully iz3d will have this fixed very soon!

Oh, and I've already tried this driver (in anaglyph) with dirt and GrID, it just flat-out crashes both of them under both XP and Vista.


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:32 am
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Neil wrote:
Two words for you: "Beta Drivers". :D

Regards,
Neil


More like alpha, as beta = feature complete, but not fully tested in the public domain. This is a complete lack of function we are talking about here :)


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:36 am
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We had nothing. Was that any better?

Use interlaced for now, we didn't even have that before.


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:37 am
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The_Doctor wrote:
We had nothing. Was that any better?

Use interlaced for now, we didn't even have that before.


Think thats missing the point slightly as tbh we have nothing now either, despite shutters being bigged up the last few months. I havent got the interlacing working either, personally, and I know a few others have had problems with this.

I know there are a lot of new features here but shutters is the one most were waiting for with baited breath.

Another problem for me personally is the first couple of times I loaded these drivers they worked in anaglyph, now when I try and lauch them all I get is a message 'no such output' and they dont work. This surprises me as it is the first thing you see, and these drivers were delayed for a week to undergo extensive testing and bugfixing. Is anyone else seeing this?


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:41 am
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chrisjarram wrote:
The_Doctor wrote:
We had nothing. Was that any better?

Use interlaced for now, we didn't even have that before.


Think thats missing the point slightly as tbh we have nothing now either, despite shutters being bigged up the last few months. I havent got the interlacing working either, personally, and I know a few others have had problems with this.

I know there are a lot of new features here but shutters is the one most were waiting for with baited breath.

Another problem for me personally is the first couple of times I loaded these drivers they worked in anaglyph, now when I try and lauch them all I get is a message 'no such output' and they dont work. This surprises me as it is the first thing you see, and these drivers were delayed for a week to undergo extensive testing and bugfixing. Is anyone else seeing this?


Yes, Vadim wrote that it's a known bug, reinstall will fix it.

I understand you are frustrated, but I'm sure they can work on all the problems we find and come up with something (together with all the people here).

Interlaced works for me, it looks very good at high resolutions, I did have some problems with rfactor not starting up. All these things need work, it has to start somewhere.


Last edited by The_Doctor on Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:47 am
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The_Doctor wrote:
chrisjarram wrote:
The_Doctor wrote:
We had nothing. Was that any better?

Use interlaced for now, we didn't even have that before.


Think thats missing the point slightly as tbh we have nothing now either, despite shutters being bigged up the last few months. I havent got the interlacing working either, personally, and I know a few others have had problems with this.

I know there are a lot of new features here but shutters is the one most were waiting for with baited breath.

Another problem for me personally is the first couple of times I loaded these drivers they worked in anaglyph, now when I try and lauch them all I get is a message 'no such output' and they dont work. This surprises me as it is the first thing you see, and these drivers were delayed for a week to undergo extensive testing and bugfixing. Is anyone else seeing this?


Yes, Vadim wrote that it's a known bug, reinstall will fix it.


Already tried that - doesnt. (rather, it does, but it'll only happen again).


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:50 am
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Thanks sortted will now do some testing :)


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:53 am
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chrisjarram wrote:
The_Doctor wrote:
chrisjarram wrote:
The_Doctor wrote:
We had nothing. Was that any better?

Use interlaced for now, we didn't even have that before.


Think thats missing the point slightly as tbh we have nothing now either, despite shutters being bigged up the last few months. I havent got the interlacing working either, personally, and I know a few others have had problems with this.

I know there are a lot of new features here but shutters is the one most were waiting for with baited breath.

Another problem for me personally is the first couple of times I loaded these drivers they worked in anaglyph, now when I try and lauch them all I get is a message 'no such output' and they dont work. This surprises me as it is the first thing you see, and these drivers were delayed for a week to undergo extensive testing and bugfixing. Is anyone else seeing this?


Yes, Vadim wrote that it's a known bug, reinstall will fix it.


Already tried that - doesnt. (rather, it does, but it'll only happen again).


Yes, if you close it it will happen again. Don't close the control center thing. There's also some problems with key bindings, however these are all minor things, fixing interface stuff will not be hard compared to driver fixes.


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:53 am
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The_Doctor wrote:
chrisjarram wrote:
The_Doctor wrote:
We had nothing. Was that any better?

Use interlaced for now, we didn't even have that before.


Think thats missing the point slightly as tbh we have nothing now either, despite shutters being bigged up the last few months. I havent got the interlacing working either, personally, and I know a few others have had problems with this.

I know there are a lot of new features here but shutters is the one most were waiting for with baited breath.

Another problem for me personally is the first couple of times I loaded these drivers they worked in anaglyph, now when I try and lauch them all I get is a message 'no such output' and they dont work. This surprises me as it is the first thing you see, and these drivers were delayed for a week to undergo extensive testing and bugfixing. Is anyone else seeing this?


Yes, Vadim wrote that it's a known bug, reinstall will fix it.

I understand you are frustrated, but I'm sure they can work on all the problems we find and come up with something (together with all the people here).

Interlaced works for me, it looks very good at high resolutions, I did have some problems with rfactor not starting up. All these things need work, it has to start somewhere.


I have no problems with rFactor in anaglyph mode. Interlacing isnt really an option for me anyway as I use a projector setup and am restricted to XGA as it is.
I know a solution will be found, its just surprising the functionality is pretty much non-existant at first release - especially the fact the LRLR sequence can become misordered. Anyway, lets see...


Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:54 am
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Hi chrisjarram,

I understand your disappointment but please do not fret - there are many solutions so this problem.

One of the great things about our community is that it attracts all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds, and they are damn smart. Someone is always there to make ends meet as long as we have a solid base to work from. This driver hopefully will be that solid base.

There was one gentleman a few years back who generated a DDC signal on a serial port pin by some simple programming.

There are many ways to deal with this issue and many people here can make it happen in many different ways.

On my side, I too have an XGA projector setup that i use primarily with shutter glasses.
All we need is to generate a square wave which syncs to the refresh rate. This is easily done using 555 timer chip. We set it to oscillate at 50% duty cycle and then use the reset pin as a synchronizer to the refresh rate from the refresh sync pin. In goes the monitor refresh signal, out comes the synchronised squarewave.

A while back, I made a very simple circuit to delay the square wave.

http://mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=25

Although i didnt post the diagram, on the same stripboard, i made an oscillator too. It worked very well but used the old DDC signal as an input. It was designed as a signal conditioner to remove any artifacts from the DDC signal so there would be no flicker where the glasses lose sync with the screen refresh.

If a software solution can't be found, I'll try to make one to use the vsync pulse. All it requires is one 555 timer, few resistors and a few capacitors. All in all, it will cost a few $ maximum and the components are easily available from all electronics component type stores. No programming needed, but a little soldering might be required, or you could buy a "breadboard" to just plug the components into.

The good people at iZ3D have done an amazing job with this one. We are very close - I think we just need to be patient for a little longer ;-)

-- Shahzad

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Last edited by RAGEdemon on Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:24 am
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New Issue:

Is anyone having problem with the activation screen? I am now locked out of all new driver modes. It asks for activation. I try to buy the driver but the page it takes me to only asks for username and password but does not allow me to purchase the driver.

Well, I can't work on anything anymore till I can get access to the driver modes which will hopefully be in the new release.

Is anyone else having problems with activation? Can anyone tell me how I go about getting an activation code?

Thanks :P

-- Shahzad.

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:17 pm
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Hi,

I am actually a professional software engineer and my business partner is an electronic engineer with 15 years experience. Simply generating a square wave that synchronizes to the refresh rate will not work, as the LRLRLR sequence is not guaranteed (only if the graphics card can keep up), so the problem is more serious than this.

There is a marked frame version which a dongle could be developed for, but again this is extra hardware and more than the primitive timer chip solution you suggest. I've already requested Vadim look into supporting the Stereographics WLC markers to give a possible solution.

Ideally, we need iz3d to be able to output exactly what the nvidia driver does - this includes a guaranteed LRLRLR sequence for each eye (without the chance of this becoming misordered) as well as the sync signal.

Chris J

RAGEdemon wrote:
Hi chrisjarram,

I understand your disappointment but please do not fret - there are many solutions so this problem.

One of the great things about our community is that it attracts all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds, and they are damn smart. Someone is always there to make ends meet as long as we have a solid base to work from. This driver hopefully will be is that solid base.

There was one gentleman a few years back who generated a DDC signal on a serial port pin by some simple programming.

There are many ways to deal with this issue and many people here can make it happen in many different ways.

On my side, I too have an XGA projector setup that i use primarily with shutter glasses.
All we need is to generate a square wave which syncs to the refresh rate. This is easily done using 555 timer chip. We set it to oscillate at 50% duty cycle and then use the reset pin as a synchronizer to the refresh rate from the refresh sync pin. In goes the monitor refresh signal, out comes the synchronised squarewave.

A while back, I made a very simple circuit to delay the square wave.

http://mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=25

Although i didnt post the diagram, on the same stripboard, i made an oscillator too. It worked very well but used the old DDC signal as in input. It was designed as a signal conditioner to remove any artifacts from the DDC signal so there would be no flicker where the glasses lose sync with the screen refresh.

If a software solution can't be found, I'll try to make one to use the vsync pulse. All it requires is one 555 timer, few resistors and a few capacitors. All in all, it will cost a few $ maximum and the components are easily available from all electronics component type stores. No programming needed, but a little soldering might be required, or you could buy a "breadboard" to just plug the components into.

The good people at iZ3D have done an amazing job with this one. We are very close - I think we just need to be patient for a little longer ;-)

-- Shahzad


Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:35 pm
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Of course, that would be an ideal solution. But, in the short term, the primitive solution would mean that anyone with even 0 electronics experience could build it and there is no need for programming.

When it syncs, there is no reason why it would come out of sync and the eyes should swap. That would be a failure at the hardware level.

Not a professional solution by any means, but the vast majority of us only use it to play computer games after all, and it might be a good temp solution to tide us over till something better inevitably comes along :)


Peace, my friend. We are finally getting there :)

-- Shahzad.

_________________
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Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:07 pm
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HI RAGEDemon,

Have you read the other reads re: the rendering queue ordering and the sync issue? It is not hardware, it is a software problem.

Chris J

RAGEdemon wrote:
Of course, that would be an ideal solution. But, in the short term, the primitive solution would mean that anyone with even 0 electronics experience could build it and there is no need for programming.

When it syncs, there is no reason why it would come out of sync and the eyes should swap. That would be a failure at the hardware level.

Not a professional solution by any means, but the vast majority of us only use it to play computer games after all, and it might be a good temp solution to tide us over till something better inevitably comes along :)


Peace, my friend. We are finally getting there :)

-- Shahzad.


Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:25 pm
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Software problems indeed, due to glitches in the driver. There is no reason why they can't be easily fixed. Many drivers in the past have done exactly that.

I believe we are talking about the hardware side - getting glasses to flicker in sync to what will be a proper page flipped display regardless of the performance of the card or the FPS.

This is a Beta driver my friend. Think of it as a "proof of concept". Perhaps not useful, but it shows great promise. In the final releases after the bugs are fixed, it will be what we are looking for.

Currently it's a free trial Beta. No need to get upset about it :)

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:49 pm
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RAGEDemon, the LRLR sequence does not switch as fast as the refresh rate if the card can't keep up. A basic circuit to make a square wave from VSYNC like you said would not help. My Another Eye 2000 glasses only use VSYNC so such a circuit is unnecessary. The eyes swap in demanding scenes in games.

It's difficult to get right because of the way DirectX works. DirectX sends commands to the video card and the commands are put in a queue. If fps is slow, it takes time to get to the command that tells to swap the frame to the front buffer to show it on screen. There are probably/maybe/doubtfully some workarounds to get the intended result even if the rendering is a bit too slow.

I'm not sure but maybe it was easier to do in the DirectX 7 or 8 time because of the different architecture of DirectX (I really don't know, it's just an idea). That would explain why some old drivers (not the NVIDIA one) like the Wicked3D worked.

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:56 pm
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Thanks for the explanation.

In that case, I guess that would have always been an issue with the technology your glasses use, regardless of the driver.

I only have the Revelators and ED glasses which work with "simple shutter" and square wave DDC, which most of us use. To my knowledge, I have never had issues with the LRLR sequence on the display not being able to keep up with the refresh rate, no matter how bad the performance got.

The nVidia drivers and the old Elsa drivers never had issues so there has to be away around it... did they not use command queuing?

I don't quite understand what is so fundamentally different that this driver cannot be made to work the same way. I was under the impression that the only thing different was that iZ3D couldn't get access to the low level DDC output.

Do you think you could explain to me in a little bit more detail? I would really appreciate it.

Regarding the issue you have... I remember in one of the old technologies, a long bar at the top would be used to indicate what frame was being displayed. Hardware would detect this and sync to it. Is this what you are trying to achieve?

-- Shahzad.

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:09 pm
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It is interesting new driver with new cards had problem with synchronous 3d rendering?

I use ED activator and old NV drivers and L/R orientation is for hours stabile. Is the ED activator not working with Vista?


Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:53 pm
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The ED activator works in Vista. The problem is not that the glasses don't flicker at the correct rate, it's that the driver is not able to swap the left/right frames always perfectly at the right rate.

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:05 pm
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So it seems to be a driver issue. If nVidia and even old Elsa could do it fine, then i don't think the smart people at iZ3D will have any problems doing it.

From what I gather, they haven't tested with actual shutter glasses yet. They have only briefly tested the output.

Hopefully, this will be a non-issue now that it has been reported and they are aware of it :)

I think someone needs to send BlackQ a pair of shutter glasses for his birthday present :D

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:10 pm
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