Acer H5360 720P 3D Projector

Post by **cybereality** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Yep, finally someone did it. A 720P 3D Vision projector from Acer.

http://us.acer.com/acer/seu30e.do;jsess ... =668723945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But does it come in black?...

Post by **pixel67** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:25 pm

Yeah, there's another thread on Nvidia's site. It isn't released yet but looks like it might have potential. Big screen goodness, now we just need 1080P.

Post by **Hornet** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:09 pm

Little problem is here:

Vertical Scan Rate: * 50 ~ 85 Hz, 50 ~ 120 Hz (Available from Dec 2009)

Post by **relaxman** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:30 pm

Finally, a manufacturer who give me a date also with month

December is so near!

Post by **Jadentheman** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:11 pm

About time!! Now can someone focus on the 1080p one?

Post by **ssiu** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:35 pm

In 3D mode, is it "checkerboard half-resolution" like the Samsung/Mitsubishi DLP 3D projection HDTVs, or is it full-resolution like the 22" Samsung/Viewsonic 120Hz 3D LCD monitors?

Post by **relaxman** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:58 am

and what about the brightness in 3D mode?

Post by **wnielsenbb** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:53 am

only 1 hdmi input. I don't think you can do fullscreen 3D at 720p with a single input can you?
The brightness is very nice. 2000 lumens in eco mode, so still plenty in 3D with shutterglasses.
Contrast sucks. 2 year warranty, combined with Acer's bad quality reputation isn't good.
720P just won't work for me so this is out. If the price is right, which it should be with Acer, it will still be a tempting machine for many.

Post by **relaxman** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:06 pm

Why? with dual link cable, 720p at 120Hz is possible .
Do you think 1680x1050 120Hz lcd-s also need 2 dvi input with 2 cable?

2000 lumen eco mode is in 2D mode i think.
In 3D mode most projectors drop brightness about 40-60%.

"720P just won't work for me so this is out."
I also thinked this as long as i not see real 720p 3D footage in big screen.
Then, you almost forget this weakness, the effect is soo cool!

Post by **wnielsenbb** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:38 pm

iZ3D uses seperate cables for left and right. I thought it was a bandwidth thing. Apparently the samsung 3D works with just one, so this projector could too. That is good.

Not sure how the brightness drop could be less than 50%, but even with 60% drop leaves 800 lumens which is plenty, and that is eco mode.

720p doesn't work for gaming for me. It is good enough for movies for sure, and would be good for console gaming, but would suck for World of Warcraft.

Post by **relaxman** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:09 pm

"with just one, so this projector could too. That is good."
Yes, it could.

"but even with 60% drop leaves 800 lumens which is plenty"
and your eyes only sees half of that, because of shutterglass

"720p would suck for World of Warcraft."
hm, isnt a better idea, play such a games in front of a 3D monitor instead of a big screen?
A projector is for presentations, movies and for some games (simulators, etc)
Sorry, i asked because i rarely play such games.

Post by **wnielsenbb** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:52 pm

The shutterglasses are why you are seeing 800 lumens instead of 2000.

I used to play on a 37" monitor, but realized I wasn't using my projector for movies so I might as well game on it. To me, every game is better on the projector. I can't imagine ever thinking "gee, I wish my screen was smaller." I sit 7' from the 120" screen and love it. I mostly play WoW, but have played Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Call of Duty too.
Life-sized Gnomes could only be beat by Life-sized Gnomes in 3D. I also remote desktop into my work computer when I work from home with it. My home theater room is a complete bat cave. I have to feel the walls to get out when I turn the projector off. There really isn't any better gaming environment I can imagine. That is just me of course. I like going to the iMax movies too. Call me weird.

Warren.

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:26 pm

I think 720P native with support for 1080P is good enough for the time being. Its at least a big step forward from what is available today. Is it the ultimate projector, no. But its better than any other modern 3D Ready projector so there is no comparison. Acer usually caters to the low-end/mid-range so I imagine this beamer will be pretty cheap. So all things considered I think this is a great proposition. I actually gamed for a while (still do sometimes) on a 32" 720P LCD and it looks great. I've played all sorts of games from GTA4 to Crysis and it all looks really good. Sure, 1080P would look better. But I'd rather play 720P silky smooth than 1080P and have it be choppy.

Post by **relaxman** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:03 am

"The shutterglasses are why you are seeing 800 lumens instead of 2000. "

No, i hear that as soon as you switch to 120Hz it drops brightness.
And after that you start wearing the glasses..

Post by **Likay** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:47 pm

You loose even more light with shutterglasses!
They are polarized which means that they will only let through maximum 45% of normal unpolarized light when "open". The lcd-screen that comes with the 3d-visionkit is most probably polarized the same way as the shutterglasses to avoid this and will of course give a better figure. But with dlp's, crts etc there's no way around. You loose 45% of the light even when the shutter is open.
This means that a 2000 lumen projector will give max: 2000x.45x.5= 450 lumen to each eye! And this is if 50% duty cycle is used for the glasses! This figure is probably a tad less to reduce ghosting but i can't really tell. So yes: Shutters and projectors are a pretty dark experience but: If you darken the room the eyes will adapt to the low light and you'll still get a pretty good experience!

Post by **wnielsenbb** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:57 pm

Anyone know if that is right? I never read anywhere you get a 75% light reduction using shutterglasses.
You could bump up to high mode for 2500 lumens.
In any case, 450 lumens isn't horrible. Quoting a review for the Sony VW60: "Brightness was very good in best mode, cranking out 493 lumens. This drops significantly to 329 lumens in low lamp mode. "

Post by **ChibiChaingun** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:03 pm

Has anyone seen this for sale anywhere???

Post by **Likay** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:21 pm

wnielsenbb wrote:Anyone know if that is right? I never read anywhere you get a 75% light reduction using shutterglasses.
You could bump up to high mode for 2500 lumens.
In any case, 450 lumens isn't horrible. Quoting a review for the Sony VW60: "Brightness was very good in best mode, cranking out 493 lumens. This drops significantly to 329 lumens in low lamp mode. "

It's quite simple actually:

Shutterglasses are made using polarized technique (liquid crystals and polarizer). The polarizer in the shutterglasses only lets through maximum 45% (check datas on linear polarizers here for instance) of the incoming light when open. Then both eyes have to share these 45% which leaves only maximum 22.5% of light to each eye. As said when counting with a duty cycle of 50%....
2000 lumen projector in shutterig with 50% duty cycle gives ~ 450 lumen for each eye.

A dual projector rig is better because you have one projector for each eye. The transmission rate of the polarizers is still max 45% but since the total light is doubled the eyes gets at least twice the amount of light using dual projectors compared to shutters. There seems to be no difference using lcd's,crt's or dlp's using these with standard polarizers.
2000 lumen projectors gives ~ 900 lumen for each eye.

Using dual projectors with lcd-projectors and special stereopol filters is top notch. Stereopolfilters only works with lcd-projectors but on the other hand have 75-85% transmissionrate. So: Light is almost doubled compared to a standard dual projector rig and 4 times brighter than a projector/shutter rig.
2000 lumen projectors gives ~ 1500-1700 lumen for each eye.

Post by **Nekto** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:30 pm

Likay wrote:Then both eyes have to share these 45% which leaves only maximum 22.5% of light to each eye.

If you will close one eye, then you will not notice that a room have become twice darker.

So there should not be halfing of perceiving brightness, only 45% multiplier will stay and we will get 2500 x 45% = 1125 lumens.

A dual projector rig is better because you have one projector for each eye.

Dual projector rig is not officialy supported by nvidia stereo drivers. There may to be some "box" that switch signal between projectors. _In theory_, it's expansive, but interesting technology: 1) more refresh (60 Hz is bad for eyes), 2) no crosseyed ghosting (no ghosting at all with dlp).

Post by **BlackShark** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:33 pm

Nekto wrote:
Likay wrote:Then both eyes have to share these 45% which leaves only maximum 22.5% of light to each eye.
If you will close one eye, then you will not notice that a room have become twice darker. So there should not be halfing of perceiving brightness, only 45% multiplier will stay and we will get 2500 x 45% = 1125 lumens.

A dual projector rig is better because you have one projector for each eye.
Dual projector rig is not officialy supported by nvidia stereo drivers. There may to be some "box" that switch signal between projectors. _In theory_, it's expansive, but interesting technology: 1) more refresh (60 Hz is bad for eyes), 2) no crosseyed ghosting (no ghosting at all with dlp).

You forgot the 50% duty cycle of shutter glasses (each eye gets a completely black image 1/2 the time).

Dual projetor is not supported by nvidia at all. They removed support when they chose to license their driver and make their own shutter glasses.
You can use the iZ3D drivers instead.

Post by **Nekto** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:40 am

BlackShark wrote:You forgot the 50% duty cycle of shutter glasses (each eye gets a completely black image 1/2 the time).

"each eye gets a completely black image 1/2 the time" do not contradicts to what I've said, - if one eye is closed there is no darkening, - there eyes get the same light as they switch in turn and where each is closed 1/2 of all time. Time (simplified) = left opened/right closed + left closed/right opened. But maybe you talk about other "time" period.

You can use the iZ3D drivers instead.

Or use a "switching box", or some hack of nvidia's drivers. Technically it's not hard to switch signal between two devices. Probably there are (or will be) solutions. iZ3D drivers cost $50, and I doubt they are the same good as by nvidia.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:22 pm

Nekto wrote:iZ3D drivers cost $50, and I doubt they are the same good as by nvidia.

You're right. They are actually better.

Post by **Likay** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:05 am

Nekto wrote:
BlackShark wrote:You forgot the 50% duty cycle of shutter glasses (each eye gets a completely black image 1/2 the time).
"each eye gets a completely black image 1/2 the time" do not contradicts to what I've said, - if one eye is closed there is no darkening, - there eyes get the same light as they switch in turn and where each is closed 1/2 of all time. Time (simplified) = left opened/right closed + left closed/right opened. But maybe you talk about other "time" period.

You can use the iZ3D drivers instead.
Or use a "switching box", or some hack of nvidia's drivers. Technically it's not hard to switch signal between two devices. Probably there are (or will be) solutions. iZ3D drivers cost $50, and I doubt they are the same good as by nvidia.

Ok. To clarify:

Shutterglasses:
Projector with 2000 lumen gives: 2000lumenx45%(polarizationloss)x50%(Duty cycle)=450 lumens/eye or 900 lumens that both eyes shares.

Dual projector rig with polarizers gives: 2000lumenx2(number of projectors)x45%(filterloss)x50%(each eye share)=900 lumens/eye or 1800 lumens that both eyes shares.

Dual projector rig with spars gives: 2000lumenx2(number of projectors)x80%(filterloss)x50%(each eye share)=1600 lumens/eye or 3200 lumens that both eyes shares.

I think you forgot that a dual projector rig contains two projectors.

However: The eyes adapts very well to the light/dark conditions and if you game in a darkened room you'll do quite nice anyway with the shuttersolution.
In my experience the eventual less ghosting for a shutterig is not a valid argument since the experienced ghosting in a passive rig with linear filters is almost nonexistent.

Passive rigs are indeed better regarding compability. More or less every softwares for stereo-3d supports dual rigs except those who actively choose not to. It's simply the easiest to implement via software. Left view to one port and right view to another...
However compability with gaming consoles will be a problem with passive rigs because the need of two outputs...

For stereodrivers use either tridef ignition or iz3d drivers. With older games "old school nvidia (winxp, up to 7900 nvidia card)" you can play a lot of your old games (even some opengl games) in stereo as well on a passive rig.
Peter Wimmers stereoscopic player supports dual view (and probably every other outputs invented). And that's about what you need.

Post by **wnielsenbb** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:43 am

If you are happy with 720p there are a few hardware devices to convert active page flipped to two seperate outputs for passive display, such as http://www.christiedigital.com/EMEAEN/P ... verter.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Still can't find one for 1080p. Seems like it should be a very easy solution.

Post by **Anthony1** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:53 pm

Here is a question for those in the know....

I have the Samsung SSG1000 shutterglasses. They are for use with the Samsung DLP Rear-Projections that are 3D ready, and also the few Samsung plasmas that are 3D ready. (I have the 50" 720p Samsung PN50A450 plasma). On my the back of my Samsung PN50A450 is a little plug that looks similar to a S-Video type plug that is called "3D Sync Out". I plug the emitter for my Samsung shutterglasses into that plug.

Does this projector have a connector like the "3D Sync Out" that's on the back of the Samsung plasma's ? If not, how will I use my Samsung shutterglasses with this ? Will I have to buy special shutterglasses from Acer ?

If my Samsung emitter will work with this Acer projector, I'm guessing I'm going to need to get a really, really, really long extension cord for my emitter. Will I have to get that cord custom made, or is there some kind of existing cord that I could get that would work as an extension ?

Post by **rajkosto** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:55 am

lol, shutter based projectors that arent DLP checkerboard need to be shuttered according to the 120hz input signal. so, you would need the nvidia 3d vision glasses.

Post by **mickeyjaw** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:55 am

Anthony1: You need to buy the NVIDIA glasses if you have 8800GTX or later NVIDIA card and are planning on using the new NVIDIA drivers.

If you are planning on using the old(free) nvidia driver with a 7900GTX or older, you need to buy some old-skool E-Dimensional glasses / ELSA Revelators / X-Force 3d or similar which will come with a VGA pass-through dongle with a 3-pin DIN plug you can plug your emitter into. You can also get/make a splitter cable to enable you to use the glasses that came with your dongle as well as your samsung glasses (assuming the glasses/dongle kit you buy is of the wired variety). There was a seller on fleabay with the wired ELSA revelators and dongle for ~£10 delivered last time i checked (I bought some off him a couple of months ago).

I think if you are using an ATI card you are pretty much stuffed ATM until IZ3D fix the shutter support in their drivers, at which point you will be able to use IZ3d Drivers and an oldskool VGA dongle.

Post by **Anthony1** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:00 am

mickeyjaw wrote:Anthony1: You need to buy the NVIDIA glasses if you have 8800GTX or later NVIDIA card and are planning on using the new NVIDIA drivers.

If you are planning on using the old(free) nvidia driver with a 7900GTX or older, you need to buy some old-skool E-Dimensional glasses / ELSA Revelators / X-Force 3d or similar which will come with a VGA pass-through dongle with a 3-pin DIN plug you can plug your emitter into. You can also get/make a splitter cable to enable you to use the glasses that came with your dongle as well as your samsung glasses (assuming the glasses/dongle kit you buy is of the wired variety). There was a seller on fleabay with the wired ELSA revelators and dongle for ~£10 delivered last time i checked (I bought some off him a couple of months ago).

I think if you are using an ATI card you are pretty much stuffed ATM until IZ3D fix the shutter support in their drivers, at which point you will be able to use IZ3d Drivers and an oldskool VGA dongle.

What If I'm using a PS3 or an Xbox 360? For example, I'm currently playing Avatar the game in Stereo 3D via my Xbox 360 and my Samsung PN50A450. Sony has announced that they will have many more S3D games coming in 2010, and you can simply use a PS3. My question is what shutterglasses/emitter would be required to use that along with the ACer H5360. For some reason, when I got the Samsung SSG1000 package, I thought I would be able to use the glasses/emitter on other 3D enabled displays, not just my 3D plasma. I assumed all 3D displays would have a plug for the emitter like on the back of my Samsung plasma, but it appears I was completely off the mark in that assumption.

Post by **Ardov** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:25 am

Hi. This is my first post in MTBS3D. I have one question. I am interested in getting the ACER H5360 only for 3D movies. Has anyone tested this projector with the E-Dimensional VGA Dongle and E-dimensional (or X3D) glasses? What about ghosting? I have seen reports across the web that e-dimensional glasses don't ghost compared to nVidia glasses. Can anyone please confirm this?

Post by **pixel67** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:44 pm

Ardov wrote:Hi. This is my first post in MTBS3D. I have one question. I am interested in getting the ACER H5360 only for 3D movies. Has anyone tested this projector with the E-Dimensional VGA Dongle and E-dimensional (or X3D) glasses? What about ghosting? I have seen reports across the web that e-dimensional glasses don't ghost compared to nVidia glasses. Can anyone please confirm this?

Check out the nzone forums. plenty of folks have this projector with Nvidia glasses and claim no ghosting.

Post by **Ardov** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:47 am

Well, i am not really interested in nVidia's glasses because they are way too expensive for me. In order to be able to watch a movie with your family you have to spend over 650 EUROS, for the glasses only (4 pairs). And as you can see here on this attached Youtube video link, the nVidia glasses DO ghost. You can see it ghosts mainly when the camera "sees" through the right lens of the 3D Vision glasses. Pay attention to Batman's face which appears doubled. Faint ghosting, but it is there.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFFWUViS_V8[/youtube]

Post by **raskassiano** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:11 pm

can Acer H5360 do Page Flipped II (RealD) ?? does it have the polarizer? I mean is it a passive or active projector? can it work with passive glasses (polarized)?

Post by **Likay** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:41 pm

It's a dlp projector working with shutterglasses only as 3d-option (anaglyph and dual rigs not counted in).

Post by **Ardov** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:48 am

Yes, but has anyone tested this projector with the E-Dimensional VGA Dongle and E-dimensional glasses?

Post by **dennisvanduijn** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:34 am

Folks, I made a great mistake by bying this projector by not checking if it had the right range of throw ratio.
For example, in order to project a 1.20m image (width), you have to place it at a 2m distance to the screen. For many Home Theater setups this is really too short. So let me warn you and look out for the long throw kind of beamers instead of this one (currently not yet available). I had to return it, because convertion is absolutely no option (I asked several specialized stores about it).

Post by **relaxman** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:24 am

hi,
a plan to buy this H5360, but will see it before.
i find a people who has this Acer, but he say its bad, not working in 3D mode,
and want to send back so service.
He has 2x GTS250 cards in SLI +latest drivers.
Tested only with hdmi cables, even with the official enclosed one.
He says windows doesnt recognize as a 3d display, only as a
'Digital Display' and no 120Hz option.

Whats the problem? Maybe a driver issue?

He also has a Samsung 2233RZ, that works!

Thanks for tips!
Relax

Post by **wnielsenbb** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:16 am

I would try yanking one of those cards out and trying it without sli myself. I would also check for drivers on acer's projector site. They may have a proper profile for the display.

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:07 pm

Models of this projector manufactured prior to Dec '09 will NOT work in 3D. He probably got an older projector.

Post by **Ardov** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:49 pm

Are you sure about that cybereality? I think that was true for other Acer model x1130 or x1261, i can't recall which one right now, but certainly not for H5360.

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:19 pm

Ardov wrote:Are you sure about that cybereality? I think that was true for other Acer model x1130 or x1261, i can't recall which one right now, but certainly not for H5360.

You know, I thought I read that somewhere but upon further review I guess I'm mistaken. Must have mixed it up with another model.