Looking for Cheap Handycams for DIY 3d Camcorder

Post by **jeremymcmurray** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:48 pm

Hey I've been looking around the net for handycams. I'm looking for 2 to make a 3d camcorder.

Requirements:
Captures with Resolution and color
Able to mount on a tripod
Records to either an SD Card, dvd, or minidvd.

Thing's I would like but dont need:
Slow motion capture
Underwater capabilities.

It's doesnt have to be too cheap just reasonably priced for quality. I would like a decent brand, at least a brand I would recognize the name of.

Anyone know a good model?

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:03 pm

eBay has a huge amount of Sony Webbie HD camcorders, average price $199 US, but there are many being sold for far less.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/So ... 36256.htm#

Also Samsung has a small memory card HD camcorder SC-HMX10 or SC-HMX20 that I've seen sold for around $69, I completely missed one for only $60!!!

There are a lot of SONY HD MiniDV and DVD cams on eBay at good prices too.

Post by **jeremymcmurray** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:15 pm

I think I'm gonna go with the Sony Webbie HD. Its got everything I need and I see them going for pretty cheap.
Thanks WheatStoneHolmes

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:02 pm

You're welcome.

The only problems I have with the Webbie and other inexpensive HD camcorders is the picture wobbles like webcams when they are moved around, it's like you are recording video from a carnival mirror or a very shiny cookie pan (I haven't seen a cookie pan that shiny but I thought it would illustrate the image).

Check this for the wobble effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2MvaY7A ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks like it is worse in 1080p stablized by iMovie.

The Aiptek HD and similar cams look like that 1080p stabilized video, but it may just be YouTube, I don't know because I never tried one, just watched videos on YouTube and said "I'll wait and get a real HD camcorder."

Post by **Freke1** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:04 am

The wobble is not a good thing (looks like it comes from turning stabilization on?)
The mic is on the front it looks like, sometimes they place it on the side (watch out for that when buying).
Looks like a good camcorder though (aside from the occational wobble).

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:33 am

Yeah, I leave the stabilization off on my JVC.

JVC is known for having very poor stabilization in the first place so I'd rather use software, a diy steadycam (like Freke1's) or nothing.

There was a great plugin for Virtualdub that did stabilization, worked really well, but I lost it in a hard drive crash (I was hard driving under the influence at the time) and I can't find it online.

If someone knows where it is please share, thanks!

Post by **yuriythebest** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:45 pm

minoru 3d wecam + small laptop

Post by **jeremymcmurray** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:21 am

I'm not too worried about stabilization. I'm gonna build a heavy wooden, and plexi-glass protective frame around it, so it'll turn out kind of heavy when I'm done with it. And I have a belt with a waist stablizer/lifter, so the picture will stay steady. And, I have a fairly decent external microphone system, so I don't have to worry about the audio cables getting in the way.
A webcam and a laptop won't work for what I want to do, I'm going to try to shoot a short movie. A cheesy movie of course, but a movie none-the-less. Most of the rig is home-ade, so It's all exerimental, and only fairly professional looking. If I ever shoot anything worth talking about I'll post it, or give a link or something.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions.

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:55 pm

2ndTurn eBay store (USA) has a lot of JVC HD camcorders:

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/2ndTurn-ele ... =camcorder

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:10 pm

Yeah, I was thinking of doing this too but now I think I'm just going to save up for that 3DinLife stereo camera. However I did entertain getting two small HD cameras for a DIY rig. There is a Kodak camera (Zx1) that looks pretty good and is relatively cheap, around $150. The good thing about this camera is that its flat and the viewfinder is on the back. So now the cameras can be mounted side by side and both viewfinders would be visible:

http://www.amazon.com/Kodak-Pocket-Vide ... 588&sr=1-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It may even be possible to get a stereo slide viewer and modify it so that you can have a true stereo viewfinder for real-time previews:

http://www.3dstereo.com/viewmaster/svn-2qb.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm pretty broke at the moment so I won't be trying this myself, but it seems like a good idea.

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:45 pm

Cool idea!

Post by **jeremymcmurray** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:59 am

The Kodak Zx1 HD would work good, but I can't seem to find out if it's mountable. I need it to be on a tripod-like post.

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:58 am

jeremymcmurray wrote:The Kodak Zx1 HD would work good, but I can't seem to find out if it's mountable. I need it to be on a tripod-like post.

However, for rock-solid video with any of these models, you really have to keep the camera still and it helps to use a tripod (there's a threaded mount on the bottom of the unit).

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcord ... 96177.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Theres a tripod mount on the bottom. It shows it in the video.

Post by **jeremymcmurray** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:34 pm

Thank for the link cyberreality. I found some of those pretty cheap on ebay. So, I'm gonna start hunting for a good deal on either the webbie or Kodak Zx1. Whichever I find a good deal on first.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:56 pm

You also might want to get a twin camera bar to mount the cameras:

http://www.stereoscopy.com/jasper/twin-bar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 6" model would work perfect for the Zx1.

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:36 pm

Here's one for about $17(shipping included)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-Camera-Bracket ... 7C294%3A50

Post by **martinlandau** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:07 am

Cyber, that 3dinlife, what is the resolution?

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Pu ... -36520.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would recommend reading this review before your purchase, of the cheapy HD camcorders, this one seems to beat out the sony and kodak models. The kodak has terrible colors and the sony has terrible artifacting. Still the smoother video of the sony, even with artifacting, is to be considered.

Wheatstone, without LANC syncing, how do you easily get the stereo lined up?

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:18 am

martinlandau wrote:Cyber, that 3dinlife, what is the resolution?

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Pu ... -36520.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would recommend reading this review before your purchase, of the cheapy HD camcorders, this one seems to beat out the sony and kodak models. The kodak has terrible colors and the sony has terrible artifacting. Still the smoother video of the sony, even with artifacting, is to be considered.

The 3dinLife is only 640x480 which kinda sucks. But it is a *real* stereo camera and not some jury rig setup. The obvious advantage would be absolutely no sync issues. Plus it would be easier to carry around and you would look like less of a dork using it. But it is $800 for an SD camera. Still on my wishlist, but I might wait for an HD version.

Yeah, the Flip looks ok but it only has 8GB of memory and you can't upgrade it. The Kodak can hold 32GB at once. I've seen all the reviews, I know about the color issues. Its a minor annoyance, but its not so bad. And yeah, the Flip is the best bang for the buck (picture quality wise). But only 120 minutes, that blows. I guess I could carry around my laptop and offload the video, but come on.

Heres a sample video from the Zx1, looks good enough to me for $130:
http://www.vimeo.com/4185200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (watch in HD)

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:24 am

martinlandau wrote:Wheatstone, without LANC syncing, how do you easily get the stereo lined up?

I just measured from lens to lens (2.5 inches or so) and I built a custom tripod base and use the liquid level built into the tripod as well as another level I purchased separately.

If I have any other leveling problems I either fix it in Sony Vegas or StereoMovie Maker.

Post by **martinlandau** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:21 am

Wheatstone, you misunderstand. I don't mean how do you get it lined up like you think. I thought talking about LANC syncing would clue you in. On certain sony and canon cameras there is a LANC port where you can connect a remote and have both cameras start recording simultaneously. That way there is no syncing problems between camera 1 video and camera 2 video - think GENLOCK. But since these cheapy HD cameras don't have a LANC port, how do you "EASILY" sync the video between camera 1 and camera 2 so that they are not out of sync?

Cyber - check these 2 cameras out:

http://www.zetronix.com/product_info.ph ... cts_id=122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.zetronix.com/product_info.ph ... cts_id=137" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have not heard of this company, but the specs look pretty nice, especially for the price. Comes with SD slots, which was the major complaint of the pure digital. I wonder who they are sourcing these cameras from - panasonic?, for that matter certainly there are cameras in ASIA that probably are not being sold to the west right now that have great specs and cheap prices, where are the big asian import guru's on this forum?

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:45 am

martinlandau wrote:Cyber - check these 2 cameras out:

http://www.zetronix.com/product_info.ph ... cts_id=122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.zetronix.com/product_info.ph ... cts_id=137" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have not heard of this company, but the specs look pretty nice, especially for the price.

Why exactly would I want to pay *more* for some no-name camera with less features (only 30fps, max 4 GB, etc.)?

These glasses from them look pretty cool though (too bad its not stereo):
http://www.zetronix.com/product_info.ph ... cts_id=113" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:46 pm

I use the "clap board" method: snap your fingers in front of the cameras, this will produce a visual sync aid in the video and the audio stream.

Or the method I used to use before I got "lazy", hold a piece of cardboard to the lenses of the cameras and slide it up evenly.

I mentioned it here:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 031#p28031

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:39 pm

I've been doing some more research and it still looks like the Kodak Zx1 is my choice. I don't think the Flip UltraHD is any better (PQ-wise), plus it costs more, holds less memory, worse battery life, its heavier and bigger. Plus there is supposed to be a remote control coming out soon for the Zx1, could help with syncing.

Check out these videos:

Kodak Zx1: http://vimeo.com/4667801?hd=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Flip UltraHD: http://vimeo.com/4417227?hd=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quality looks about the same in both videos.

I am still open to other options, but I don't think the Flip fits the bill.

Post by **martinlandau** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:08 pm

Cyber you are wrong, you must not have read the links, you should try to make an effort to be more thorough. I won't even consider the kodak device, a video cameras first job is to capture good video - the horrible color problem of the kodak device makes it fail at its first job. Any other merits after that are a moot point. So you think capturing 32gb at one time of crappy video is superior than capturing 8gb at one time of superior video, I simply disagree, to each his own.

Pure Digital: 8gb hardwired, 1 inch CMOS censor, 720/30p, LCD 2 inches, NO ZOOM, no still pictures

DV1100HD: 8x ZOOM, Still photos supported, 3inch LCD, night vision mode, mp3 player, self timer, motion detection, powerful LED light, video stabilization, stereo earphones, etc etc, changeable SD card technology

So Cyber I need you to explain to me how the pure digital offers more than the dv1100HD. Both those products are about 150.

For another 100 dollars you can get 1080P recording with the other link I provided:

DV597 20x zoom, 3 inch LCD, and look at that large LENS, a large good lens and a large good cmos censor should make for amazing video

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/So ... t-Tour.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sony has a nice CMOS censor, but the lens is terrible and small, very wasteful and inefficient and they comment on its underwhelming performance because of this bad combo. Build a good VIDEO camera first, then worry about the other features.

Post by **martinlandau** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:46 pm

Cyber I saw those video glasses. 2gb 129 dollars - but it has a microSD card slot.

This is similar, but has 8gb built in and an mp3 player, no card slot it looks like:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MP3-Spy-Sun-Glasses ... 7C294%3A50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another iteration, but with FM radio and only 4gb:

http://cgi.ebay.com/4GB-Spy-Sun-Glasses ... 7C294%3A50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This one loses the fm Radio, but you gain the changeable SD card slot like the original and it claims 8gp built in.

http://cgi.ebay.com/8GB-Spy-Sun-Glasses ... 7C294%3A50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still another one, costing 500 dollars, and having no internal memory:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CLEAR-VIDEO-EYE-GLA ... 7C294%3A50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The wider FOV is not worth 5 times as much is it?

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:51 pm

martinlandau wrote:Cyber you are wrong, you must not have read the links, you should try to make an effort to be more thorough. I won't even consider the kodak device, a video cameras first job is to capture good video - the horrible color problem of the kodak device makes it fail at its first job. Any other merits after that are a moot point. So you think capturing 32gb at one time of crappy video is superior than capturing 8gb at one time of superior video, I simply disagree, to each his own.

Yeah, I read through that review and much more. I even said I knew about the color issues. I just don't think its a deal-breaker. The quality of the video still looks alright to me. Look at the two videos below (from the same site you linked). Even though the Zx1 has a bit of an orange tint, I think the video just looks better in general:

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Fw-tcjCZA[/youtube-hd]

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUduogrFMX4[/youtube-hd]

However upon further review the 32GB vs. 8GB may be a moot point. I wasn't taking into account the battery life of the cameras. The Zx1 can last for about 2 hours on its rechargeable batteries, while the UltraHD only offers 90 minutes. So its almost a null issue since you can't even record more than 2 hours in one session anyway (although you could conceivably bring extra batteries and swap with the Zx1).

martinlandau wrote:So Cyber I need you to explain to me how the pure digital offers more than the dv1100HD. Both those products are about 150.

Really, I am not even going to consider this DV1100HD. Its some no-name camera I cannot find a single review on, a single sample clip. I mean, try searching for it on google and it comes up with like 6 links. The first one being the same site you linked thats selling it and a few other chinese wholesalers. I am not even going to waste my time thinking about this camera, even if it were $50 bucks. So if I had to choose between the two I'd certainly go with the Flip UltraHD, no question.

Post by **martinlandau** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:50 pm

Yeah, I read through that review and much more. I even said I knew about the color issues. I just don't think its a deal-breaker.

That is our difference, I want the best color balance possible, to you it is not a deal breaker. To each his own

Some people will probably look at those 2 videos and the one for the sony and think life is too short to be such anal retentive nitpickers

I plan to film lots of flesh tones and humans, therefore the orange tint may effect me more than the videos you plan to film

"However upon further review the 32GB vs. 8GB may be a moot point."

This is an important consideration, if during the filming of my porn session

My model decides to she can go for 4 hours, 2 hours will not be enough, must have ability to keep filming, will need solution that can accept batteries that can be changed out. Can't be paying for time while the battery recharges!

"Really, I am not even going to consider this DV1100HD. Its some no-name camera I cannot find a single review on, a single sample clip."

Everything is made in China these days, arnold schwarzanegger, the governator of california told me once he would only buy made in the USA, but hummer is a chinese company now, so what should he do?!?! (for those that don't know, he drives a hummer car that used to be made in the USA) I would hope on all these other forums where have found out about so much info about the zx1 perhaps you could get others interested in the dv1100HD and we could learn more about it. I agree, until there is more information, the risk is still too great.

"I am not even going to waste my time thinking about this camera, even if it were $50 bucks. So if I had to choose between the two I'd certainly go with the Flip UltraHD, no question."

I think practically every camera we buy is made in asia, the difference being some you pay a whole lot for that brand name, the internet is global. The thing to do here is to find some people in asia who can test this product and get some more info on its quality. Some people want to pay a lot for an NVIDIAname brand s3d solution, some are mavericks and go for dual olarized projectors, or iz3d or z800 or something else, which one are you?

How can you rebel against nvidia name brand, but not apply that same meme and way of thinking to other purchases?

Post by **martinlandau** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:27 pm

Ok Cyber, I went and did some more legwork for you:

You got to get away from that sucky google and move over to BING

Digilife is the namebrand - here is their website:

http://www.digilifeglobal.com/DV/DV.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.tootoomart.com/buy-digilife+ ... 5+0mp+2+5/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A link where you can buy there stuff for 50 dollars, didn't you say you wouldn't buy it even for 50 dollars? LOL!

http://www.zopid.com/servlet/the-DIGITA ... Categories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.zopid.com/servlet/the-95/Dig ... ion/Detail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another place to buy them cheap, wow a nice big lens and 720p for 150 dollars. Remember you need a big lens and a big cmos censor to get the best video!

http://www.neltronics.com.au/whydigilife.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another company selling it with more info.

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Di ... oduct.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Overstock reviews - they are sold out and everyone seemed to like it.
They have that kodak you like for 90 bucks.
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Ca ... 5/cat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More brands I have never heard of, but some really good deals.

http://www.digilifeusa.com/product_deta ... ductID=132" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another company selling digilifes, they seem to be more ubiquitous than you thought! This link has lots of accessories you can buy for the camcorder.

That NP60 Battery is the same model as on my sony hc85 I think, I already have several of those batteries.

It seems they are using panasonic equipment, over at camcorderinfo, panasonic stuff gets pretty good marks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQfQ8Mh8jQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A guy on youtube comparing several different camcorders and the digilife.

Many more digilife youtube reviews - some talking about the new HD models - see what gems you can pull out for us, I am tired.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... arch_type=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.tootoomart.com/product-24806 ... fe+HDV-H20(DDV-D80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)+8.0MP+CMOS+Digital+Camcorder+with+3.0-inch+TFT+LCD/
1080P for 150 dollars!!

http://www.tootoomart.com/product-24784 ... +Camcorder+/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to that youtube guy, the aipak and the digilife are the same camera.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:30 pm

martinlandau wrote:How can you rebel against nvidia name brand, but not apply that same meme and way of thinking to other purchases?

Who said I was rebelling against Nvidia? I've been a die-hard Nvidia fanboi for years now. You couldn't pay me to put an ATI card in my rig.

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:43 pm

martinlandau wrote:Ok Cyber, I went and did some more legwork for you:

Its alright man, you don't have to bother. I'm already pretty much set on the Zx1 (although the UltraHD is still a contender).

If you want to spend your money on some cheap Hong Kong knock-offs, go ahead.

Post by **martinlandau** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:02 am

cybereality wrote:
martinlandau wrote:How can you rebel against nvidia name brand, but not apply that same meme and way of thinking to other purchases?
Who said I was rebelling against Nvidia? I've been a die-hard Nvidia fanboi for years now. You couldn't pay me to put an ATI card in my rig.

Ati? Who said anything about ATI? as an nvidia fanboy you are certainly only running a newer nvidia card with a viewsonic or samsung nvidia approved s3d lcd 120hz monitor correct? I wouldn't want you to be using an iz3d, or dual projectors or a planar or any of that other crap that nvidia doesn't seem to certify, for clarification could you elaborate on the s3d solutions you personally use, being an nvidia fanboi I have to keep you in check.

As for hong kong CRAP - good lord, jackie chan is from hong kong, and I suggest the sooner you accept your asian overlords, the easier you can transition into the new world order that will control you henceforth.

I don't like it either cyber, lots of my friends have turned to crime to pay for their kids since they lost their jobs to asia, but that is the way of the world. I will not let emotional sillyness make me waste money or hold loyalties to inferior technology.

For the record, can you tell me where the zx1 is made and all its component parts, wouldn't want you buying cheap asian junk on your kodak product (sigjh)

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:19 am

martinlandau wrote:Ati? Who said anything about ATI? as an nvidia fanboy you are certainly only running a newer nvidia card with a viewsonic or samsung nvidia approved s3d lcd 120hz monitor correct? I wouldn't want you to be using an iz3d, or dual projectors or a planar or any of that other crap that nvidia doesn't seem to certify, for clarification could you elaborate on the s3d solutions you personally use, being an nvidia fanboi I have to keep you in check.

I am using the Zalman Trimon monitor which was the only solution officially sponsored by Nvidia until the 3D Vision came out (I got it last year). It still works fine with the new Nvidia drivers, they just don't advertise it on their site for some reason (probably to trick noobs into buying the 3d vision when the Zalman is cheaper and better).

Post by **martinlandau** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:53 am

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/hybri ... eview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A HD cheapy camcorder with 60FPS in HD mode!! very useful if you have any movement in your scene - like driving or riding a skateboard or filming racing or football. Most other camcorders only do 30FPS in HD mode. This is a STEAL! The message boards at camcorderinfo like this aiptek as a cheapy HD camera.

http://www.aiptek.com/HDCamcorders/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thier taiwan site:
http://www.aiptek.com.tw/c0_1.php?bid=2&cid=5&pid=1#02" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.tootoomart.com/product-2479996-GIGXON+HD1P+(HD1080P" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)+5.0MP+CMOS+Digital+Camcorder+with+3.0-inch+TFT+LCD+/

150 dollars, 1080P 30fps, 720p 60fps. handycam style with the big lens. GIGXON HD1P (HD1080P) 5.0MP CMOS Digital Camcorder with 3.0-inch TFT LCD

Post by **cybereality** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:28 am

martinlandau wrote:http://forums.steves-digicams.com/hybri ... eview.html

A HD cheapy camcorder with 60FPS in HD mode!! very useful if you have any movement in your scene - like driving or riding a skateboard or filming racing or football. Most other camcorders only do 30FPS in HD mode. This is a STEAL! The message boards at camcorderinfo like this aiptek as a cheapy HD camera.

http://www.aiptek.com/HDCamcorders/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now that actually has some features I want. Namely the 5x optical zoom and (more importantly) the gyroscopic stabilization. I will have to take a better look at the reviews, but that doesn't look like such a bad camera.

EDIT: Ok, so I actually read some reviews and looked at a bunch of sample clips on YouTube. I don't know, I'm not all that impressed. For the price its about on par with the other cheap HD cameras we've looked at, but it doesn't really surpass them all that much. I guess it does have the (bogus) 1080P mode and the image stabilization is a decent plus and the external mic port is a nice bonus but aside from that the video quality didn't look all that great. Still an option I guess.

Post by **martinlandau** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:34 pm

EDIT: Ok, so I actually read some reviews and looked at a bunch of sample clips on YouTube. I don't know, I'm not all that impressed.

LOL! Go buy that sucky bad color kodak. I think I am going to be getting the aiptek as my cheapy portable solution, the image stabilization alone, without the 60fps or the mic port makes it the clear winner for a cheapy HD and those camcorderinfo people are a pretty discriminating crowd and if they choose that as the cheapy HD winner, who am I to argue.

http://www.websiteoptimization.com/spee ... tabilizer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyways I did some more research for you on the SVP camcorders for cheap at overstock:

Here is the t500 - looks similar to the aiptek, but about 40 bucks cheaper - they are probably sourced from the same vendor.

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/SV ... _iid=33969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the t400, not as nice, but lots cheaper:

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/SV ... oduct.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.svp-tech.com/dcr.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The companies homepage, pretty slick.

Look at that t100, for 88bucks and you get HD, not bad.

Its funny, I can't find any t500 info on thier homepage even though overstock is already selling the camcorder, it seems overstock has a better price too on the other models.

Post by **Freke1** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:51 pm

Here's what my 140$ (each) Toshiba Camileo HD camcorders can do:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NY18MDEM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (3D HD 720p 8min video)
(not really impressive but not really bad either, right? - You can get some much bettar I know!)

Here are some things to consider when buying (cheap) camcorders for 3D (my experience):
1. the sensor - mine has a 5.0Mpixel some has less - I don't know the effect of this?
2. video format - mine uses H.264 .AVI 1280*720p 4.5Mbps - The Mbps is too low. I means pixelated color gradients in the sky. - .MOV is better I read somewhere but have to be converted to be used in StereoMovie Maker (test the quality!).
3. Focus - mine is fixed (macro/portrait/infinity) which is great. No unfocused shots or slooow autofocus.
4. Stabillisation - never uses it because it means poorer quality and jerky panning.
5. Fast panning - this is a problem sometimes - jerky movement is the result, I just have to pan slowly and shoot slowmoving objects. More expensive models probably are better? Some clips on Youtube looks like they were taking during a earthquake!
6. Battery - Mine lasts about for 1 hour of video and extra batteries are cheap (20$) - bought some.
7. Microphone - this is VERY important. The world's best video can be ruined by distorted sound or too much wind noise (wind noise can be eliminated by applying haired fur over the mic though. This You will most likely want to do.)
Maybe You want to use an external mic (if possible) but that is more troublesome on the road.
Where is the mic placed? is it stereo? Mine is mono so I have to use both and they can't be place on the flip LCD panel which they are on some models. Mine is on top. I manually have to make the stereosound from 2 files. Taking the stereosound from just 1 camcorder is a lot easier.
8. Lens protection - mine has none so I have to carefully putting the joined camcorders into a cardboard box with some soft cloth to protect the lenses.
9. Wobbling - mine has very little - no sure if this is due to using stabillisation (which I don't)? - some clips on Youtube wobble like crazy.
10. Colors and lighting - Mine has warm rich colors I think but fast adaptation to lighting. Different model has different colors.
11. Charging plug (where?) - Can You charge it without having to disassemble the 2 camcorders. Put a 4Gb memory card in mine and I am good for a week, but I will need to charge it which is much easier if I don't have to take the thing apart.
12. operating - You need to be able to operate the unflipped/halfflipped right camcorder because there is not enough room to flip the right LCD panel if You use eyedistence between the camcorders.
13. zoom - never use it.
14. materials - mine is cheap plastic. I think most cheap models are?
15. 3D pictures - for 3D pictures You will need a sync shutter switch. Pressing the 2 record buttons at the same time only works for 3D video. So there has to be a plug for a sync switch.

So I recommed:
1. better video format than mine. .AVI works with StereoMovie Maker.
2. stereosound on each.
3. fixed focus or fast autofocus.
4. cheap replacement batteries.
5. avoid camcorders with wobbling/jerky videos on Youtube. This will be totally unusable in 3D.
6. camcorders that can be charged and operated when put side by side in a rig.

Things that don't work:
1. mono mic on the flippable LCD panel.
2. wobbling/jerky videos.
3. very slow autofocus (remember the camcorders are pointing at different things).
4. a camcorder that can't be operated when the flipable LCD panel is halfway out.
5. no plug/jack for sync switch (if 3D photos is going to be used)

just thought I would mention these things. 1280*720p is great for 140$ I think. Not sure how it looks on a 60" TV though.

Post by **martinlandau** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:59 am

Freke it is great you post this, I would like to add that camcorderinfo just reviewed this:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sa ... -36742.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An under 200 dollar cam that BLOWS them away! It has rankings higher than some 1000 dollar camcorders! I hope cyber hasn't purchased his BAD COLOR kodak yet

Freke1 wrote: Here are some things to consider when buying (cheap) camcorders for 3D (my experience):
1. the sensor - mine has a 5.0Mpixel some has less - I don't know the effect of this?

Freke a higher mpixel sensor, the better the image has to be I would assume, the kodak only has about a 1.5megapixel sensor, this has to affect quality. It seems the aiptek, this toshiba, and several others have the 5mpixel sensor.

2. video format - mine uses H.264 .AVI 1280*720p 4.5Mbps - The Mbps is too low. I means pixelated color gradients in the sky. - .MOV is better I read somewhere but have to be converted to be used in StereoMovie Maker (test the quality!).

I don't know that it is necessarily the codec, camcorderinfo shows artifacting and pixelization between different models and goes into detail why they think it varies.

4. Stabillisation - never uses it because it means poorer quality and jerky panning.

Again given the link above, I just don't know that I believe this, the link seems to make the case that image stabilization HELPS quality.

5. Fast panning - this is a problem sometimes - jerky movement is the result, I just have to pan slowly and shoot slowmoving objects. More expensive models probably are better? Some clips on Youtube looks like they were taking during a earthquake!

Yes, camcorderinfo really comes down hard on the only 30fps cameras, they state we have actually WENT IN REVERSE in camera technology. A lot of the older camers could do 60i, and were smoother for fast action and panning. That is why it is important to get a 60fps camera, at least cyber if he gets that bad color kodak with the low resolution cmos sensor will have 60fps

[/quote]
6. Battery - Mine lasts about for 1 hour of video and extra batteries are cheap (20$) - bought some.[/quote]

I would avoid ANY camcorder that doesn't have a swappable battery, in the middle of filming your porn session, you can't wait on the camera to recharge to keep your girlfriend on the sidelines can you?

7. Microphone - this is VERY important. The world's best video can be ruined by distorted sound or too much wind noise (wind noise can be eliminated by applying haired fur over the mic though. This You will most likely want to do.)
Maybe You want to use an external mic (if possible) but that is more troublesome on the road.

The camcorderinfo people put a high premium on having an external mic, most of the internal mics are really garbage, and the one thing they really HATE about that sanyo above is the poor mic placement on the lcd screen. The aiptek gvs model has ext mic input, this seems to really matter to a lot of camcorder buffs.

I would add too some of these camcorder have solutions for underwater use - a plastic case that surrounds the camcorder, all us divers need to consider this.

Post by **Freke1** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:32 am

that camcorderinfo.com site is great.

Sanyo Xacti VPC-CG10 looks like a good camcorder so how come this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F48VObiFt3c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is so jerky and wobbling? I would check that out before buying them. Maybe it's Youtube's fault. Maybe he's moving the camcorder to much. The color and sharpness look very good though.
Also You are going to have to take them apart to charge the battery or upload to Your computer.

Post by **WheatstoneHolmes** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:20 am

Maybe it's the image stabilizer, Sanyo claims: "Using a proprietary Sanyo algorithm, the CG10 automatically compensates for distracting up-and-down or side-to-side camera movement"

In another post (scroll up to read it) Freke1 said: "5. Fast panning - this is a problem sometimes - jerky movement is the result, I just have to pan slowly and shoot slowmoving objects. More expensive models probably are better? Some clips on Youtube looks like they were taking during a earthquake!"

I've used somewhat modern (made within 1-4 years ago) "real" HD 1080 camcorders and found that although the panning is not jerky it has a smearing effect similar to film, which I kinda like actually.

Most folks hate the smearing effect, but it might be better than jerky movements.

I tested a Sony HDR-UX10 a while back and found that it had jerky panning with the image stabilizer on and smeary panning with it off.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:12 am

martinlandau wrote:I hope cyber hasn't purchased his BAD COLOR kodak yet

OMG, can you let it go man? The Zx1 just has the right combination of features for what I want. I've looked at a *lot* of sample footage on YouTube and I think the quality is acceptable. Not professional quality by any means, but decent for the price. Aside from some synthetic tests, I think it performs about on par with other cameras in that price range. I need something in a candy-bar form-factor (so both screens are visible), with 720P recording (preferably at 60FPS), at least 2 hours of HD recording time (preferably expandable with SD cards), and a decent battery life. So my options are limited to the Kodak Zx1 / Zi6, Flip MinoHD / UltraHD, Creative VadoHD, and maybe the Sony Webbie MHS-PM1. For the price and the features I just like the Kodak. Give me a break man.