Options for system upgrade, what's the best path forward

[Captain007]

I currently have Intel X299 platform - Asus Rampage VI Extreme, Core X 10900X, dual GPU (2080ti/3080ti) and dual boot Win 10. Boot 1 with 3080ti and latest Win 10 and drivers for VR coz I play a lot of VR games, Boot 2 with 2080ti and Win 10 1809 with last official nvidia drivers for 3D gaming. I had to stay with Intel HEDT platform coz of extra PCI-E lanes to support dual GPU.
My system is aging and HEDT is not ideal for gaming, and soon my aging CPU will coz bottleneck. New hardware is around the corner - Intel z790, i9 13900k, nvidia 4090, plus industry is moving towards higher DDR5 speeds, PCI-E 5, Wifi-6E etc so sooner or later an upgrade is needed for better VR experience.

The problem is, even the i9 13900k and z790 will NOT support dual GPU and 32 PCI-E lanes. And there's no direct successor of X299 in sight, aside from Intel w790 that will supposedly release in Q3 aimed more towards workstations (Intel has killed the Core X lineup). So what's the best way forward for a dual GPU dual boot system for 3D gaming. I can only imagine of going with latest hardware, and swap GPUs every time I wanna play something in 3D, or have two separate systems, one legacy and one latest and greatest.

Both are not ideal; no space for two towers and can't really go through pain of swapping GPUs for one play session. I just started this thread to get some ideas for people who plan on upgrading to next generation of hardware.

[whyme466]

Two towers are the ideal solution, unfortunately. I plan to buy a second, VR-only PC at the end of this year, abandoning my current setup - see viewtopic.php?p=182137#p182137. My current PC also has the X299 motherboard, with a superb hybrid cooler on the now-aging CPU. Like you, I do want to reconfigure hardware when switching between 3D Vision and VR gaming.

Beyond motherboards, I am very concerned about providing adequate cooling for next gen GPUs, especially based upon my recent 3080Ti experience. All recent rumors about 4080/4080Ti indicate that a larger chassis power supply (up to 1500W) may be required. For example, see https://www.techradar.com/news/new-nvid ... ergy-bills. My hybrid cooled 2080Ti rarely exceeds 75 C when fully loaded, and the fans remain very quite. My air-cooled FTW3 3080TI very quickly goes into thermal limiting mode if NOT assisted with a large external fan blowing into PC chassis air intake, when playing VR games like Lone Echo 2 on Vive Pro 2. Even with this external cooling support, my 3080Ti cannot run Lone Echo 2 at its highest resolution settings.

I would prefer my next VR configuration to NOT have all this fan noise. I really would like to return to hybrid cooling with the 4080Ti, with hybrid's better thermal performance. However, a special chassis configuration is required to support hybrid cooling on both CPU and GPU. Current EVGA hybrid coolers are large, expanding from their original single fan/radiator designs.

[Captain007]

You're right; cooling is perhaps the most important factor in dual GPU setups. I have also noticed temps reaching thermal limits for my 3080ti and GPU throttles occasionally in VR. I have Vive Pro 1 though so cooling is not as big of a challenge just yet. I have a very high air flow case Phanteks Enthoo Luxe with 10 fans (including dual fan push pull CPU AIO cooler). All fan options maxed out. Playing in VR in summers, the room gets very hot so AC has to be turned up. As you said, all rumors indicate 4080/4090 cards will be very power hungry and hot so upgrading in this kind of set up defies the purpose of getting a good VR performance due to thermals. Perhaps two towers is the only option, but we'll have to wait and see how 4080/4090 perform.

Also, I had a bit of preliminary research on next gen hardware. Benchmarks show negligible difference in performance between DDR5 6000 and DDR4 3600 speeds, with some games having almost identical FPS, only few exceptions like Far Cry 6. Same story in PCI-E bus speed between Gen 3, 4 and Gen 5. GPUs performed near identical in all PCI gens. The only difference in performance was switching from x16 to x8 and there's a drop in performance. I guess current hardware does not max out PCI-E 3.0. Also, current games aren't designed to take advantage of newer hardware.

Additionally, there's little effort in VR benchmarking. VR has very different metrics like frame times, dropped frames, reprojection methods, etc etc that are not yet well understood by hardware testers. Running games at such high resolutions in VR and you're surely GPU bound, so any upgrade to CPU isn't gonna do much. The only real difference will be by upgrading GPU. So at this point I'm not even sure upgrading to new generation hardware (except 4090) is gonna yield much performance for VR only.

Same can be said for 3D Vision. Majority of games that have been fixed by community so far can comfortably run in ultra settings with a 2080ti. Unless a new DX12 wrapper is developed, we're stuck with DX11 and last gen games. Therefore, maybe an upgrade isn't really needed just yet if you are a 3D vison and VR gamer only.

when playing VR games like Lone Echo 2 on Vive Pro 2. Even with this external cooling support, my 3080Ti cannot run Lone Echo 2 at its highest resolution settings.

I would prefer my next VR configuration to NOT have all this fan noise. I really would like to return to hybrid cooling with the 4080Ti, with hybrid's better thermal performance. However, a special chassis configuration is required to support hybrid cooling on both CPU and GPU. Current EVGA hybrid coolers are large, expanding from their original single fan/radiator designs.

BTW, how's your experience with Vive Pro 2. I'm about to order one to upgrade from Vive Pro 1, but there are a lot of negative reviews pointing to lower vertical FOV being highly noticeable, sweet spot being too small, small binocular overlap, and glare is worse than Vive Pro 1. Also how's the black levels. I only play wireless with the adapter so this is the best wireless PC VR headset on the market.

[whyme466]

Vive Pro 2 is now my preferred VR headset. Until I received my 3080Ti, my lens-modified wireless Vive Pro HMD was my favorite. It took a little time to get used to Fresnel lens haze again (in a VERY small number of games), but I did not have any issue with the Vive Pro 2 FOV. If you get the Vive Pro 2, I suggest disabling the Vive Console automatic brightness, as mentioned in the link I shared (slight change to file structure now, but still accessible). I also highly recommend VR Wire 2, to achieve wireless-like freedom with a wired headset.

[Captain007]

Vive Pro 2 is now my preferred VR headset. Until I received my 3080Ti, my lens-modified wireless Vive Pro HMD was my favorite. It took a little time to get used to Fresnel lens haze again (in a VERY small number of games), but I did not have any issue with the Vive Pro 2 FOV. If you get the Vive Pro 2, I suggest disabling the Vive Console automatic brightness, as mentioned in the link I shared (slight change to file structure now, but still accessible). I also highly recommend VR Wire 2, to achieve wireless-like freedom with a wired headset.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm going ahead with the Vive Pro 2 order. I looked at the VR Wire 2; great to see innovative ways to handle cable mess but nothing comes close to true wireless. With wireless adapter, I still get a small bump in resolution running in "Balanced" mode compared to Vive Pro 1, but the biggest upgrade for me is screen fill rate, minimal screen door, and a bit wider FOV. I can live with softer graphics and lower resolution, but SDE is my biggest game breaker.

Regarding upgrade path, I did a bit of further research. Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 - https://www.phanteks.com/Enthoo-Pro2-TemperedGlass.html - has a unique design. The bottom part is for dual system setup, but you can just use it for a second GPU, with good breathing room and away from other components. With help of a longer riser cable you can mount the GPU at bottom. With a bit of mod, you can tilt the GPU sideways and make room for a fan underneath. The case has good air flow.

Additionally, as we're stuck with HEDT for it's PCI-E lanes to make room for dual GPU system, but it's is not really for gaming so there's a bit of performance loss. Also we're stuck with 2080ti for 3D. If we abandon the HEDT platform, it's still possible to have 2 GPUs on a Z690 (or Z7909 later this year) in PCI-E 5.0 x8 x8 mode and still have the same performance of PCI-E 3.0 x16 for 2080ti. PCI-E 5.0 runs with 31.508 GB/s x8 mode, while PCI-E 3.0 runs at 15.754 GB/s in x16 mode. Also per lane the PCI-E 5.0 runs at 32.0 GT/s while the PCI-E 3.0 runs at just 8.0 GT/s. So technically we can use the 2080ti in PCI-E 5.0 x8 mode without any performance loss. At least on paper, but I haven't found any benchmarks to see real world difference in frames.

In such a set up, every time I start the PC, I have to go to BIOS to set PCI-E lanes for the Windows version I'm trying to run. If running for 3D Vision system, I have to split the lanes x8 x8, if for VR then I have to set main GPU to x16 and disable the 2080ti.

It's a bit of inconvenience but this is I think the only way to move away from HEDT and get the best platform meant for gaming. Now with PCI-E 5.0 I think 2080ti would not saturate x8 mode. I'd love to get some ideas from everyone before deciding to build a new system.

[3DNovice]

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