[Solved!] 3D Vision working with Samsung Odyssey G7 & 32" IPS monitors, but help needed!

[RobertBash]

TLDR: the Samsung Odyssey G7 is capable of bright, near-perfect crosstalk-free 3D without MBR, but I can't get it to work full-time yet because of a sync issue. New 165Hz+ IPS panels can do effective 3D with strobing but at low brightness and with severe IR issues.



Update Jan 5, 2021: In the NvTimingsEd tool, setting "Z (frameTime)" to 8350 μs seems to stabilize the crosstalk: I didn't see ghosting get better or worse over the course of 20+ minutes, and it was definitely playable. (It was good enough that with both eyes open, I saw ghosting only with my dominant eye.) Now I have to figure out how to adjust the offset/phase of the timing.


Update Jan 6, 2021: Got it! Eliminated most ghosting with the following settings in NvTimingsEd:

Z: 8350.00 μs
W: 3975.00 μs
X: 0.50 (unknown unit)
Y: 7700 μs

Once I got things stabilized with Z due to a mismatch between shutter frame times and video frame times, it was W that was responsible for adjusting the "phase" and eliminating ghosting. There might still be more tweaking possible, but for now I want to enjoy my games!



Background


I'm a long-time CRT user; my Sony GDM-FW900 is doing fine, but it's not big enough for an immersive gaming experience, contrast is poor except in complete darkness, and it's not high-res enough to get the most out of today's games. I haven't been a huge gamer, but I enjoy fast-paced FPS like Quake Live and Doom Eternal, as well as racing games. Reading reviews about the latest gaming monitors, I decided maybe it was time for one. CRTs are king for input lag and motion blur, so my standards are very high when it comes to those. My current setup is an Intel NUC8 i5 with a Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080 Gaming Box Thunderbolt eGPU. It's enough to run Doom Eternal at ~90 FPS and eSports titles like Quake Live at 200+FPS at 1440p. For gaming, I run my FW900 at 1536x960 at 120Hz (it maxes out at 160Hz at lower resolutions). I'm planning on building a gaming rig, but new parts are scarce, and I'm gonna wait for the RTX 3080 Ti.

For the past couple of weeks, I've been trying out a few 32" 1440p gaming monitors, namely the Samsung Odyssey G7 (240Hz VA), Asus ROG Swift* PG329Q (175Hz overclocked IPS), and MSI PS321QR (165Hz IPS). The Asus and MSI use the same AUO panel but offer slightly different feature sets. I previously checked out the 27" Acer Nitro VX272 X (240 Hz IPS), but I had problems with flickering and random image retention. I figured a 32" gaming monitor would be more immersive. Boy, was I right. I can't go back to 27" now.

The 1000R curve on the Samsung G7 is controversial, but I love it. I find it more immersive than the flat screens on the other monitors I've been evaluating. The G7 reminds me of an IMAX screen, and I thought that 3D on this monitor would be pretty cool. I had a shutter-based 3D system with an ATI Radeon way back when (early 2000s), and I was vaguely aware of Nvidia 3D Vision. I figured that with an Nvidia GPU, I could just track down the appropriate hardware, plug it in, and fire it up. (Har har.) Of course, that led me here.

After finally getting the drivers working with anaglyph 3D (a big shout-out to Losti and this entire community), I ordered a knock-off 3D Vision kit from Amazon.

3dvision.jpg

transmitter.jpg

The emitter has two buttons on the back. One toggles 3D vision on and off. I have no idea what the other one does, if anything. It didn't come with a manual.

Of course, the 3D Setup Wizard wouldn't let me continue without an appropriate gaming monitor. I disabled driver signature verification and was able to load the .inf file for the Asus PG278Q as the driver for the Samsung Odyssey G7. The 3D Setup Wizard recognized it! So far, so good. Then the custom .inf installed successfully for both the MSI PS321QR and the Asus PG329Q, but getting them recognized as 3D Vision-capable was a little more complicated (oddly, the Asus needed to have adaptive sync enabled, while the MSI needed to have it disabled). Once I got that sorted out, it was off to the races! (Literally; my preferred test games were Assetto Corsa Competizione and GRID 2.)

The monitors all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I'll go over what's relevant for 3D.

MSI PS321QR

The MSI PS321QR is probably the best overall monitor of the three I'm trying now (color accuracy, uniformity, build quality, etc.), but its gaming features are more limited. Both IPS monitors require enabling MBR for effective 3D. The MSI has only one MBR setting, which cranks up the response time overdrive so much that inversion artifacts are prevalent in 3D mode. So even though the strobing is well synced to the shutter glasses and crosstalk is negligible, there's ghosting from the overdrive. Also, it's quite dim using MBR (dimmer than my Sony CRT!). Plus, there's significant image retention when using 3D Vision, which I'll get to shortly.

Asus PG329Q
*Asus markets this an ROG Swift, but the OSD calls it the ROG Strix. Even they can't get their naming conventions straight.
The PG329Q was attractive to me because of its "ELMB Sync" feature, which allows backlight strobing while using adaptive sync. It offers five levels of backlight strobing, but even the highest setting is not quite as good as some other implementations I've seen, like the Acer XB271H. To compensate, Asus included a feature called "Clarity Position" that lets you choose where to target the most effective backlight strobing: top, middle, or bottom. So, what does that mean for 3D?

First off, 3D without MBR is unplayable; way too much crosstalk. But ELMB makes 3D possible. Here are screenshots from GRID 2 showing the different ELMB "Clarity" levels:

PG329Q ELMB Level.jpg

Pictures were taken with autoexposure, so brightness levels are not apparent, but the higher the setting, the dimmer. The lowest MBR setting (Clarity Level 1) reduces crosstalk significantly, and the next three levels are progressively better (and dimmer). The highest level is the only one that mostly eliminates crosstalk, but it still allows some outside the "target zone." I find it playable and fairly immersive, but again, it's pretty dim (about Sony CRT level and slightly brighter than the MSI).

Here's what the different Clarity Position settings look like:

PG329Q ELMB Position.jpg

These were taken with the ELMB strength set to 5, the highest. With the position set to the top, there's minimal crosstalk from the rock face and none at all from the power lines, but it starts creeping in when you get to the chevrons. At the middle setting, the crosstalk from the chevrons is much fainter, but ghost images of the rocks and power lines are quite prominent. Notice how the crosstalk from the rocks fades towards the middle of the image. At the bottom Clarity Position setting, there's crosstalk everywhere else. In racing games, crosstalk is most distracting in high-contrast areas like the sky, so the topmost setting seems to work the best.

A huge issue with the MSI PS321QR and Asus PG329Q is image retention during 3D use. I haven't had any IR issues in 2D (these high-refresh-rate panels seem to be prone to IR), but it's very distracting in 3D. (Oddly, the IR is usually visible only with 3D glasses. Maybe someone can explain the physics of that to me with polarization or whatever.)
This is a shot showing IR from multiple scenes, including the Nvidia 3D test:

PG329Q Image Retention.jpg

The picture was taken through the 3D shutter glasses, and I enhanced it a bit to show the artifacts. Crosstalk is minimal, but there are very distracting ghost images from IR. The only way to avoid this distracting IR is to not pause the game or stay on one scene for more than a few seconds. Even then, the HUD and UI elements will keep showing up long after. I don't think permanent burn-in is an issue, but I'm not really ready to risk it.

Samsung Odyssey G7
Yes, this monitor has its issues. There's backlight bleed and glow, uniformity is meh, and contrast is not best in class. But man, is it fun to use. Most importantly for us here, the Samsung G7 is capable of near-perfect, cross-talk free 3D with Nvidia 3D Vision. It does this at a brightness level far above what the IPS panels can do.

The best setting for 3D seems to be Adaptive Sync. With Adaptive Sync off, though, there's a good deal of cross-talk. The monitor has MBR, but it's not very effective. It actually makes crosstalk worse in some cases. With Adaptive Sync on, things get interesting. At first, 3D showed a fair amount of crosstalk. It was playable but not great. After a few minutes of playing, I noticed the crosstalk was gone. Nothing. It was bright, smooth, and immersive.

But then the crosstalk came back, and started getting worse until it was unplayable, with equal-brightness double images everywhere. Then, suddenly, the glasses seemed to sync up, and crosstalk was gone again in an instant! Playing for a while, I noticed it was cyclical, with a period of about nine-and-a-half minutes. Here's one cycle:

Odyssey G7 3D Sync.jpg

There's severe crosstalk, but then 20 seconds later, it's all but disappeared. Then it comes back and gets worse.

There's obviously a sync issue. I measured a cycle of 9 minutes 21.4 seconds +/-0.7s. (I captured the video at 30FPS; hence the margin of error on both ends.) There are I'm not 100% sure of my math, but there are approximately 67,477 frames with the reported framerate of 119.98 Hz. If that reflects the amount of time to shift the phase by one frame, that means sync is off by one part in 67,477, or about .00148%. (I might not be calculating that right, so feel free to correct me, but whatever the factor is, it's very small). I measured another cycle at around 9 minutes 11 seconds.

This is obviously very frustrating. I don't know if the issue is in the drivers, the hardware, or the way the monitor is handling the timings from the GPU. But a solution would be awesome, and I'd love to get community input. If we're able to figure this out and fix it, the Odyssey G7 could be the monitor for 3D gaming.

[Lizzard]

You might want to check this out:

https://github.com/rajkosto/NvTimingsEd

Also take his note:
Responsibility
I am not responsible for anything, including exploded monitors, loss of brain function/ocular capabilities, or total nuclear annihilation.

Nobody reported exploded monitors so it should be safe.

You want to focus on "NvTimingsEd". But from what I remember nobody really knew what this was about. Or how to operate. So you might need to do a deep study. He appeared and disappeared without answering questions. This problem you have is one many of us would like to get rid of. Or get it properly balanced. Because I have ghosting in one eye and zero in the other on my Samsung S27A950D. Samsung probably thought its better to have none in one eye than have little in both. But your findings proves it could be completely eliminated.

More here: viewtopic.php?f=181&t=25220

[RobertBash]

Because I have ghosting in one eye and zero in the other on my Samsung S27A950D.

That sounds like it could be a defective set of glasses that doesn't alternate properly. Have you tried another pair?

[Lizzard]

Yeah. I have 3 different types and 5 in total. Also bought the exact monitor for a backup. They all have the same results.

Different Samsung Glasses.jpg

Only difference is the latest version of these glasses, one on right, blocks about 15-20% more ghosting without being too dark.

Ghosting 1.jpg

The ghosting is barely visible in less contrasted scenes. But the right lens still suffers.

Ghosting 2.jpg

Only in more contrasted scenes do you see a little ghosting in the left lens. Overall the ghosting was never that bad on this monitor. But just enough to not miss playing this way.


One advantage this monitor has is that with the Acer edid you could play without the pyramid. If a professional could redo the Acer edid it might have been a very popular alternative without the bugs in its current state. In Watch Dogs 2 I had to wait 3 minutes to get into the game. The worst case. After every game the edid would confuse the 3d effect with the monitor power. So it switches the monitor off instead of the 3d. Also every time you alt+tabbed out of a game. Lived with this for 4 years until 3DNovice saw I needed the Samsung Edid and shared the files with me.
With the Samsung edid it is far less buggy but requires the pyramid and the dreaded warning message to be disabled. Losing the 3dVision interface which rarely served a purpose anyway. Still light years better than the bugs with the Acer Edid.

Would still be awesome if the ghosting could be eliminated or balanced. Id like to know if little less ghosting but in both eyes would be less distracting. I assume engineers at Samsung particularly evaluated these pros and cons and went with this. They might have added some settings for the end user to play with like in your G7 findings.

[3DNovice]

....

[3DNovice]

@OP

I assume that you are using the available 3D Fixes for those games, available at http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2013/10/ga ... dated.html

Also, Nvidia has different timings, for different displays. You may have better luck trying the Display id from something different. As well as using the duty cycle
application for Nvidia's glasses, as mentioned by Lizzard above.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... mentPage=3

[RobertBash]

@Lizzard and @3DNovice,

It looks like the NvTimings tool is exactly what I need. The frame time error is about 15 microseconds (my two measurements yielded 14.9 and 15.1), and the tool seems to allow adjustment on the order of hundredths of microseconds. I'll report back.

[3DNovice]

....

[RobertBash]

Update: In the NvTimingsEd tool, setting "Z (frameTime)" to 8350 μs seems to stabilize the crosstalk: I didn't see ghosting get better or worse over the course of 20+ minutes, and it was definitely playable. I've further tweaked "W," "X," and "Y (activeTime)" to get crosstalk reduced more; I would say the amount is equivalent to panel 4 or 5 in the OP image with the 12 pictures of crosstalk. Current settings are W=4652.75, X=1.6, Y=7300.75.

The ghosting reduction is good enough that with both eyes open, I see ghosting only with my dominant eye. Now I have to figure out how to fine-tune the offset/phase of the timing.

Here are some observations I had while tinkering:

• * Setting W high made things oscillate very quickly, and setting it low resulted in a lot of crosstalk.
  * There is a narrow range of around ~800μs for Y (activeTime) that will enable the glasses to sync. Outside this range, the glasses simply won't turn on. I don't really see Y having much of an effect on the image, contrary to another report. Maybe it's the system that doesn't sync with a wide range.
  * X appears to be sensitive to very small adjustments (there is a difference between 0.5 and 1, for example). I don't know the units for X, but I doubt they are μs.

[russellk]

Hi Robert, this is a fantastic post and thank you for making it.
I regularly trawl through monitor reviews looking for panels with the right MBR/overdrive settings to see if they are potential candidates for 3d vision compatibility. I have a short list somewhere.. but I don't think anyone has ever got better results that the old pg278qr, even though the modern TN panels have similar if not better specs. For example, the VG27BQ is TN but I don't know if anyone's tried it.

I don't think anyone has even posted exactly what the parameters in the nvtimings app do. It might be worth trying to contact the author via Github. I think I asked him on the old 3dvision forums but didn't hear back.

Also, it might be worth getting some advice on the forums over at Blurbusters. Mark is very helpful and funnily enough I saw a similar thread over there the other day. Maybe it was you?

[russellk]

Another option, might be the Monster Vision Max 3D or RealD glasses that have an emitter with timing adjustments on it.

These require that a pairing between the Nvidia and their emitter take place.

AFAIK, no one has ever tried to pair the Nvidia emitter with them.

So no idea, if they would work or not with your 3rd party Nvidia replacement emitter.

Edit: you can look at the PDF here
https://www.manualslib.com/download/526 ... ax-3d.html

I've got a pair of XpanD 3d glasses that support various IR standards. I've used them before in 3d vision mode from the emitter and I used the app to try and adjust the timings, but I never managed to get them working as well as the standard Nvidia glasses anyway.
Any of these 3rd party glasses will work, as long as they support the Nvida protocol. There is actually quite a lot in info (from years ago) on this very forum. At least one person has made their own emitter, along with circuit diagrams etc.
There is also this doucment that discusses the various protocols : https://cmst.curtin.edu.au/wp-content/u ... lasses.pdf

I also used XpanD glasses when I tried to get 1080p 3d working in 3d vision mode on my projector, but it has a permanent 'sync drift' issue which I was never able to defeat.

In any case, that was a bit of historical info because I think the nvtimings app does the job

[RobertBash]

Hi Robert, this is a fantastic post and thank you for making it.
I regularly trawl through monitor reviews looking for panels with the right MBR/overdrive settings to see if they are potential candidates for 3d vision compatibility. I have a short list somewhere.. but I don't think anyone has ever got better results that the old pg278qr, even though the modern TN panels have similar if not better specs. For example, the VG27BQ is TN but I don't know if anyone's tried it.

I don't think anyone has even posted exactly what the parameters in the nvtimings app do. It might be worth trying to contact the author via Github. I think I asked him on the old 3dvision forums but didn't hear back.

Also, it might be worth getting some advice on the forums over at Blurbusters. Mark is very helpful and funnily enough I saw a similar thread over there the other day. Maybe it was you?

That wasn't me, but I've been browsing there recently. Do you recall where it was?

It makes sense that the Odyssey G7 would work well, as its response times are in traditional TN territory. TFTCentral measured average GTG response times of 3.4ms (2.9ms if not counting a particularly slow black to gray transition), compared to 2.9ms on the PG278Q. Notably, the Odyssey G7's response times remained consistent at 120Hz, while IPS panels tend to slow down when driven at lower refresh rates.

I've tuned it to the point that in some places (dark objects on light backgrounds), overshoot contributes more to ghosting than crosstalk. The G7 now seems to work best with Adaptive Sync disabled (rather than enabled as before). Interestingly, it's at a point now that turning on MBR actually makes things worse. The setting is called "Fastest (MBR)," but the ghosting and overall image quality appearsmore similar to the "Faster" setting rather than "Fastest."

[RobertBash]

Would still be awesome if the ghosting could be eliminated or balanced. Id like to know if little less ghosting but in both eyes would be less distracting. I assume engineers at Samsung particularly evaluated these pros and cons and went with this. They might have added some settings for the end user to play with like in your G7 findings.

I'm right-eye dominant, and I've tuned the G7 to the point where I cannot see any left-eye ghosting with both eyes open. If I close my right eye, the ghosting appears. Maybe that's what they were going for?

[russellk]

That wasn't me, but I've been browsing there recently. Do you recall where it was?

It makes sense that the Odyssey G7 would work well, as its response times are in traditional TN territory. TFTCentral measured average GTG response times of 3.4ms (2.9ms if not counting a particularly slow black to gray transition), compared to 2.9ms on the PG278Q. Notably, the Odyssey G7's response times remained consistent at 120Hz, while IPS panels tend to slow down when driven at lower refresh rates.

I've tuned it to the point that in some places (dark objects on light backgrounds), overshoot contributes more to ghosting than crosstalk. The G7 now seems to work best with Adaptive Sync enabled (rather than disabled as before). Interestingly, it's at a point now that turning on MBR actually makes things worse. The setting is called "Fastest (MBR)," but the ghosting and overall image quality appearsmore similar to the "Faster" setting rather than "Fastest."

It's ironic that I was initially upset that my G9 has no MBR, given that it was my intention to try and get 3d vision working on it. I tried, had really poor results and gave up as I've just spent a lot of time messing around with displays. Maybe I'm just a quitter lol! I had read that the MBR mode on the Odyssey is underwhelming anway (according to RTINGS etc) so I didn't feel too bad.

Yes, overshoot can definitely contribute significantly to 3d ghosting. By the nature of active 3d displays it manifests itself differently from a viewers perspective in 2d, but you already understand that.
I think it's important to understand exactly that MBR, ULMB etc. etc. really are. I'm no expert, but clearly the more you overdrive a panel the more inverse ghosting/overshoot you get. MPRT time (without overshoot) is probably the most important metric.
If the MBR mode purely reduces the backlight cycle then it would just reduce crosstalk and brightness in fairly equal proportions, all being equal.

Sorry for the rambly nature of my post, just trying to get thoughts down in writing!

As far as blurbusters go, this is the thread I was thinking of, it was where someone is trying (again) to get the OLED CX working:

https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... ses#p60529

Here's the post I created when I was trying to get my projector working :
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4605

[RobertBash]

It's ironic that I was initially upset that my G9 has no MBR, given that it was my intention to try and get 3d vision working on it. I tried, had really poor results and gave up as I've just spent a lot of time messing around with displays. Maybe I'm just a quitter lol! I had read that the MBR mode on the Odyssey is underwhelming anway (according to RTINGS etc) so I didn't feel too bad.

Yes, overshoot can definitely contribute significantly to 3d ghosting. By the nature of active 3d displays it manifests itself differently from a viewers perspective in 2d, but you already understand that.
I think it's important to understand exactly that MBR, ULMB etc. etc. really are. I'm no expert, but clearly the more you overdrive a panel the more inverse ghosting/overshoot you get. MPRT time (without overshoot) is probably the most important metric.
If the MBR mode purely reduces the backlight cycle then it would just reduce crosstalk and brightness in fairly equal proportions, all being equal.

Sorry for the rambly nature of my post, just trying to get thoughts down in writing!

As far as blurbusters go, this is the thread I was thinking of, it was where someone is trying (again) to get the OLED CX working:

https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... ses#p60529

Here's the post I created when I was trying to get my projector working :
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4605

Thanks! I've definitely spent too much time tinkering with displays and 3D settings these past few weeks (and writing about them!) How were you trying to configure your G9? Like what driver did you use to enable 5120x1440?

Very helpful link about the CX OLED. I was thinking about trying that next, but I don't really have room for it anyway. I love blur-free video, but its 120-nit BFI mode doesn't excite me. Given that the G7 works so well without BFI/strobing though, I wonder if it's possible.

I'm actually having the same issue with more crosstalk at the bottom of the screen, but it doesn't bother me in racing games because the convergence is set even with the dash (in first-person view) or the rear of the car (in third-person view), meaning there's little separation to worry about at the bottom of the frame.

[russellk]

Thanks! I've definitely spent too much time tinkering with displays and 3D settings these past few weeks (and writing about them!) How were you trying to configure your G9? Like what driver did you use to enable 5120x1440?

Very helpful link about the CX OLED. I was thinking about trying that next, but I don't really have room for it anyway. I love blur-free video, but its 120-nit BFI mode doesn't excite me. Given that the G7 works so well without BFI/strobing though, I wonder if it's possible.

I'm actually having the same issue with more crosstalk at the bottom of the screen, but it doesn't bother me in racing games because the convergence is set even with the dash (in first-person view) or the rear of the car (in third-person view), meaning there's little separation to worry about at the bottom of the frame.

No problem, happy to share info or just be someone to bounce ideas off. I've been playing around with this for at least 10 years now, although I wouldn't say I'm a master of anything yet! *edit* meant to add I can't remember what EDID and settings I tried on the G9 now. It was horizontally stretched though, so wouldn't have been full res.

There are a couple of older posts on here regarding the OLEDs and we came to the conclusion that the X series used a rolling scan, even with BFI, which is probably why that person is having issues.
I tried 3d vision on a 7 series OLED (first one with 120hz) a few years ago and realised that you need some kind of backlight control or ULMB/BFI mode even with OLED, since the tiny response times cause problems with image persistance. The shutter glasses themselves cause crosstalk in that sitation, since they are not 100% effective at blocking light and are LCDs which take time to shutter.
I used to think you just needed a 120hz display with the quickest response time, but then I started to get deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. When you realise (or learn) that the hardware Gsync module has much more granular variable overdrive , you realise there are a lot of subtle differences between freesync/gysnc etc and you start to appreciate why Nvidia had a locked down hardware support list.

[Lizzard]

Update: In the NvTimingsEd tool, setting "Z (frameTime)" to 8350 μs seems to stabilize the crosstalk: I didn't see ghosting get better or worse over the course of 20+ minutes, and it was definitely playable. I've further tweaked "W," "X," and "Y (activeTime)" to get crosstalk reduced more; I would say the amount is equivalent to panel 4 or 5 in the OP image with the 12 pictures of crosstalk. Current settings are W=4652.75, X=1.6, Y=7300.75.

The ghosting reduction is good enough that with both eyes open, I see ghosting only with my dominant eye. Now I have to figure out how to fine-tune the offset/phase of the timing.

Here are some observations I had while tinkering:

• * Setting W high made things oscillate very quickly, and setting it low resulted in a lot of crosstalk.
  * There is a narrow range of around ~800μs for Y (activeTime) that will enable the glasses to sync. Outside this range, the glasses simply won't turn on. I don't really see Y having much of an effect on the image, contrary to another report. Maybe it's the system that doesn't sync with a wide range.
  * X appears to be sensitive to very small adjustments (there is a difference between 0.5 and 1, for example). I don't know the units for X, but I doubt they are μs.

Well that is some really positive news right there! Think i will sell my kidney. Or my car and buy a horse. Have to get my hands on one of these beauties!
Congratulations on your findings! It seemed like rocket science when nobody reported positive results before.
As far as I remember Rajkoste was one of the developers of CEMU or reshade. Cant remember where exactly I saw his alias.
Found it strange that someone would develop such a great tool but not take the time to explain the functions.

[russellk]

Found it strange that someone would develop such a great tool but not take the time to explain the functions.

It's entirely possible that they just decoded or hacked the driver/dll/registry but didn't know what the values meant themselves.
In fact it could even be that someone managed to get some internal documentation out of nvidia but can't reveal the details for various obvious reasons.
Would be really nice to have more documentation.

[demobuild]

So is it worth buying the G7 for 3D or are there still issues?

[pasetchnik]

Hi. Can you please help me?

How do I use NvTimingsEd ?

I mean these things:

1. How do you know what timing one should change?
[For example I have AOC 27G2G4 display. So I've tried all of AOC_* positions in the combo box. (Added +-10/+-20 to Z value.)
Also I've created my own position by copying AOC_2460 and renaming into AOC_2702 (found that name in driver info) still no changes]


2. What nvtimings.ini I should change - the one in "Program Files" folder or the one in "3D_fix_manager\Drivers\StereoscopicDriver" folder

3. When are the changes applied? is it after replacing nvtimings.ini ? or after turning 3d on and off by button on the 3dvision pyramid? or maybe by setting the switch in 3D_fix_manager on and off?


Tested the effect in control panel test and some *.mpo picture in 3d vision photo viewer
For now, nothing seems to have any effect

[Sci666]

Hello there. I need some assistance with I read this and I have some issues. I use also a non 3d monitor via display port. A curved agon Ag352ucg6 with 120hz. Setup of the 3d fix manager and the old Nvidia drivers produces a doubled picture. But shutter glasses seemes out of sync because picture looks the same with or with our glasses, but shutters works! Sorry how does this n
vtimingsed works.. Open it it, then I got all the profiles? Than I have to edit any profile? And than? How could I activate this profile? And how can I get it to work? Just try and error adjusting? So it's a lottery to got a result or not?

[Guig2000]

I'm currently searching how does it works.
According to the author https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... mentPage=3, it seems that this utility create or modify 3Dvision profiles.
So that you may not need edid hack, as your display will be recognized as a 3dvision frame sequential display. But it's quite complicated, as each resolution and frequency with detailed timings that you want to use in 3D has to be created (cru can help a lot). And then, you need to find and set right glasses timings that match the display.
Z is frame time in micro seconds, 1 000 000 divided by refresh rate.
W may be relative to input lag?
X is delay before active (delay when all the light is blocked?)
Y is active time (time during the light is not blocked?)


When and if I'll find out how to make it work properly, I'll probably write a tutorial.

EDIT: I was not able to make it works:
This tool can be use in order to modify existing 3D vision displays' profiles.
Or in order to add a new profile for a fast 2D: it require that nvidia does not detect the display as a 3D display . If nvidia detect the display as crt generic or 3dtv play, this sync profiles will not be in use. EDID hack did not changed anything, so I set my 3D projector back to crt generic.
Also I've a 2D monitor but as it's a 60Hz display, I cannot make any test with it (minimum 3Dvision refresh rate for frame sequential may be 61 or 62Hz.

[Guig2000]

finally, the explanations was hidden into this crapy geforce forums (But I did not try):
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... you/16398/

0. Find the ideal timings for the 3D mode you want via nvidia custom timings and testufo tests etc
1. If your monitor shows up as "Generic CRT" or similar in the nvcpl Stereoscopic settings, you will have to use CRU and spoof a supported 3D vision LCD monitor's EDID ID, the top-left combo box in NvTimingsEd shows you all the supported ones, find one, preferrably the same brand and similar resolution specs as yours.
2. Use new/copy to create a timing that exactly matches the one you tested in nvidia custom timings
3. For glasses timings, if your display supports ULMB/MBRT/Lightboost then you can use generic settings by clicking the "Set to refresh rate" button for the first parameter and then setting the other parameters to 4700, 2, 7333, otherwise if you rely on the glasses to do the strobing you will have to tweak these values later, first copy ones from a similar monitor/resolution if you can.
4. Once youre done with all the timings for your monitor, click the "patch nvstres.dll" button and find the nvstres/nvstres64.dll files in 3d vision install dir (default folder should already have them) and then reboot for the nvstres changes to take effect.
5. You can now remove the custom resolution overrides from nvcpl because the timings patched into nvstres.dll will automatically be used when entering stereoscopic mode.
6. Glasses timings can then be tweaked without reboots, only exiting the stereo app, hitting Apply after changing the sliders, and restarting the stereo app.

Be aware to save a copy of this dll and ini file before any modifications, in case you want to roll back.

[kvidix]

So, Odyssey G7 can replace the TN models?

[spin1]

Any updates on this? I've read of someone else also saying the Samsung Odyssey G7 works great with 3D Vision...I'm thinking of upgrading my current 3x Dell S2716DG setup to 3x Samsung Odyssey G7 monitors if these will work good with 3D Vision.

[the3dfreak]

Any chance this could be made to work with quad-buffer stereo cards? Been trying to adjust the timings on a Samsung G9 but I’m using a quadro stereo bracket and emitter as opposed to the NVIDIA pyramid, so the program won’t launch…

[treeeddd]

Any chance this could be made to work with quad-buffer stereo cards

I have no clue how that would work with 3d vision. The geo-11 driver doesn't seem to need 3d vision to work so there's that. The G9 is a ultrawide so I do not now that plays into the timing of the glasses as might take longer to refresh.

The 3d vision glasses has some crosstalk at the top and bottom of the screen, so the G7 panel isn't quite as fast as it needs to be, but it's good enough for me.

I had a syncing issue with the 3d glasses, where it would drift off sync over time and reset the sync. I guess I fixed it with fresh install of windows and the 3d vision drivers.

[Megapsychotron]

I need to upgrade from my old Asus VG278H (1080p, 27 in). I want to go bigger, 1440p, and retain the ability to play 3D. The G7 seems to fit the bill. It's getting out to work with 3D Vision complicated? I assume I need to download the tool and enter in those profile values?

I'm also considering getting one of the 3D Vision certified 1440p monitors, but I think at this point those will all be used (I don't mind, if they are in great condition), and I don't think any of them are larger than 27 inches.

I do have a spare 3D Vision pyramid.

[treeeddd]

This is a thread where I help someone get there's setup with the oddyssey G7, I finally got it to work without an issue with an edid override of the mpg321qrf because that was what I had hooked up on my computer at the time.

viewtopic.php?t=23330

Definitely the 32 inch model is the one to get, it's definitely worth it over the 27inch 3d vision monitors. There's some small teething issues, like it the 3d doesn't always sync up the first time, so I'd always open up a 3d vision preview image a couple of times to get the 3d to sync. And once that is set, leave open the 3d image so the 3d sync stays on. The 3d convergence needs to be dialed in for each game. No need set it up as adaptive sync, just set it to 240hz in the monitor OSD.

It's not all too difficult to setup, it's just understanding what the programs are doing in order to get it setup. I can give you the edid infomation for the overrride I used once you get to that point.

I find 3d to always look better with a bigger image, there are micro oled AR headsets hitting the market that support 3d as well. The rokit max is a 120hz 3d supported as well. I have no experience with these headsets however.

The 27inch 1440p 3d vision monitors aren't as great either, only works in 120hz display port, very soft image 3d image quality, and the colors aren't great. But they are pretty much plug and play, still may need to set up the convergence for each game.

[Megapsychotron]

Thanks for the information! Convergence is often something that needs to be adjusted per game, so I'm used to that. I'm going to take the plunge on the G7, since it's on sale at Amazon. With your help, I think I'll be able to continue to enjoy 3D on my desktop. If it doesn't work out, I'll settle for the 3D through Geo-11 on my Sony 4K tv in the living room.

[Megapsychotron]

I have my G7 monitor connected now. Still using my GTX 1080 on driver 452.06 to start from a known working position. I have a 4070 Ti ready to install, but I will only do so after I get 3D Vision working on this monitor. So I'm pretty new to EDID override. What program do I need to use for that? And then I use the EDID of MPG321QRF? RobertBash doesn't seem to specify which EDID he used. Does the specific EDID matter, or can it be for any 1440p 3D Vision monitor? Do I need to use NVTimingsEd? Also, once the EDID is set, do I need to worry about it if I update the graphics drivers?

Sorry about all the noob questions.

[treeeddd]

Try following this thread to get it set up, it was the same process I went through with another member in getting there's setup. I sort of don't want to go through the same setup procedure again, but I'll help you have any questions.

viewtopic.php?t=23330

The edid sort of matters in a way, it has to be a high refresh rate 1440p monitor. We used the EDID of the PG278QR that was mentioned in this thread and it caused some micro sync issues that took me a long time to dial in. The edid from the mpg321qrf is just what I had on my regedit, and it was seems to work without issues.

So most, first off, most importantly is that you want to get the 3d stereoscopic tab to appear as crt compatible. You can do this by monitor INF override in the device manager with anything 1440p freesync compatible monitor. Then we can use CRU to change the monitor ID to make it work with nvtimingsED.

Try to get yourself familiar with the process by reading the thread above. I will post the EDID override for the regedit for the mpg321qrf here.

[3DNovice]

.....

[treeeddd]

Ok, first go into CRU tool, which will display the monitor ID on the top left. Then click "edit" to change the monitor ID to AUS27B1, this is an official 3d vision monitor is suppose to override the EDID, but for some reason won't. do a refresh64.exe in the CRU tool folder, to refresh the monitor. This is where we need to go into the regedit to manual override the EDID.

Code: Select all

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\MSI3DB8]

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\MSI3DB8\4&3b6ccb19&0&UID4161]
"DeviceDesc"="@monitor.inf,%pnpmonitor.devicedesc%;Generic PnP Monitor"
"Capabilities"=dword:000000e4
"Address"=dword:00001041
"ConfigFlags"=dword:00000000
"ContainerID"="{8ab693fd-ee4e-56c8-9f84-ab35bb87ceb1}"
"HardwareID"=hex(7):4d,00,4f,00,4e,00,49,00,54,00,4f,00,52,00,5c,00,4d,00,53,\
  00,49,00,33,00,44,00,42,00,38,00,00,00,00,00
"CompatibleIDs"=hex(7):2a,00,50,00,4e,00,50,00,30,00,39,00,46,00,46,00,00,00,\
  00,00
"ClassGUID"="{4d36e96e-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}"
"Service"="monitor"
"Driver"="{4d36e96e-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\\0006"
"Mfg"="@monitor.inf,%generic%;(Standard monitor types)"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\MSI3DB8\4&3b6ccb19&0&UID4161\Device Parameters]
"EDID"=hex:00,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,00,36,69,b8,3d,00,00,00,00,01,1e,01,04,b5,47,\
  28,78,3b,4b,f5,af,4e,30,bb,25,0d,50,54,bf,cf,00,d1,c0,71,4f,81,c0,81,40,81,\
  80,95,00,b3,00,01,01,69,5e,00,a0,a0,a0,29,50,30,20,b8,04,c4,8f,21,00,00,1a,\
  dc,ff,00,a0,a0,a0,14,50,30,20,35,00,c4,8f,21,00,00,1a,00,00,00,fd,00,30,a5,\
  fa,fa,42,01,0a,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,fc,00,4d,50,47,33,32,31,51,52,46,\
  2d,51,44,0a,01,62

copy this to a notepad txt, then .txt to .reg. double click on it and it will merge into your regedit. Now under the device Perameters of your monitor, it will show a sub tab with EDID OVERRIDE.

Copy the EDID from the merged reg of the above code into the 0 perameter of the EDID OVERRIDE tab. This will change the monitor in the CRU tool to the above code. do a restart64.exe for the CRU tool to refresh the monitor. Once that is done, rename the monitor ID to AUS27B1, do a restart64.exe for the CRU tool to refresh the monitor.

Once the monitor id is set to AUS27B1, the nvtimingsED tool will now be able to change the timing of the 3d glasses under the monitor id profile. That should be it, the nvtiming3d settings is here:



Also, you do not need to change the CRU tool monitor settings at all. You may need to delete some profiles of other refresh rates if the monitor doesn't go into 120hz. Don't worry, you can always delete the monitor ID, and do a restart64, it will go back to default settings.

That should be it to get it working. Let me know if you run into any problems.

[Megapsychotron]

I'm going to continue this tomorrow, but when I double click the .reg MSI file, it doesn't add a EDID OVERRIDE folder to my monitor device parameter. Instead, my registry shows an additional monitor folder for the MSI monitor, separate from the Samsung. Did I skip a step? Should I manually add the EDID OVERRIDE folder within the Samsung monitor device parameters (ant there are two of them for the G7, one ending with UID4356 and and other ending in UID4358). And I'm confused about the 0 Parameter of the EDID Override tab. Is this in CRU? I don't see an EDID OVERRIDE tab. I see Edit, Copy, Paste, Delete. There's also Import, Export at the bottom left. Within Edit, I changed the ID to AUS27B1 without changing anything else, and hit OK.

Sorry about the confusion, I am grateful for the help you are providing.

[treeeddd]

In regedit, the msi reg adds the monitor but not the override, because the edid override may not be under the same registry as mine. My bad, I forgot add that you have to double click on the edid information of the msi monitor, and select all to copy into clipboard. This is all done in the regedit btw, Once that is copied, go to your G7 monitor regedit, there should be an EDID OVERRIDE TAB, there should be a "0" perameter, double click that and it will be bring up the EDID information. Now you want to select all and now paste the msi EDID into there. Now do a restart64,exe in the CRU tools folder. The CRU tools is only to change the monitor id to AUS27B1.

Here's an image of where the paste the EDID info:



Do a restart64.exe again. In the CRU tool, it should show it as the msi monitor, change the monitor ID to AUS27B1, which will now make it a 3d vision monitor. Do a restart64.exe again.

The nvidia control panel will show it as a 3d vision monitor. Once that is done, you'll be able to adjust the nvtimingsED.

Also, if you switch monitors, or change display connections, the edid override will be reset again. So you'll have to re-override it again. It's a good idea to save the Edid override of the new setting, so you can remerge it back into regedit if it resets itself.

Sorry about the confusion, I am grateful for the help you are providing.

No problem at all, I just want to provide other with a better 3d vision gaming experience so we can make 3D gaming a thing again. The display technology race is heating up finally, so should definitely get better types of display for 3D gaming. 3D vision will work on any monitor as long as the pixel refresh timing is fast enough. We still need brighter monitors though for active shutter 3d glasses gaming to be better.

I think micro oled displays with the likes of AR headsets will be the way forward for 3d gaming. Glass free 3d, if they can bring it to bigger screen sizes.

[Megapsychotron]

One last question for this evening. Should I have the G7 at 240, 144, or 120 hz? And should Adaptive Sync be On or Off?

[treeeddd]

240hz, with or without adaptive sync. Adaptive sync gives a little better image, but I just prefer to leave it on 240hz non-adaptive sync. Also, you may get some crosstalk at the top or bottom of the screen, but it will go away once the panel warms up.

Just be aware that the 3d glasses doesn't always sync up perfectly to the monitor at first, it will take a couple of tries to sync up the 3d image. I just use the 3d vision image viewer to get a correct 3d sync, then just leave it open so the 3d sync remains once it's good enough. Also, no BFI is needed.

[Megapsychotron]

Boy, I'm having a heck of an time getting this to work. I think I understand the process. We override the G7 EDID with the MSI3DB8 EDID, this will enable Generic CRT within the Nvidia stereoscopic 3D tab. Then with CRU, we edit the G7 edid, renaming it to the ASUS AU27B1, in order to modify the timings with nvtimingsED. I've added the MSI monitor EDID to the registry. Both the MSI and G7 EDIDs show up in CRU. I changed the name of the active display (SAM7058 G7) in CRU to AU27B1.

My problem, where I'm stuck, is that there isn't an EDID_OVERRIDE tab within the G7 Device Parameters. I understand that once I have that tab is there, I can copy the MSI EDID information into it. How do I get the EDID_OVERRIDE tab to show up in the first place? I was able to use CRU to create an INF file for the MSI monitor by using the Export function. Is there a way to use that INF file to override the EDID? I feel like once I have the EDID_OVERRIDE tab show up, I'll be good to finish setting up and start playing in 3D.

[treeeddd]

Code: Select all

My problem, where I'm stuck, is that there isn't an EDID_OVERRIDE tab within the G7 Device Parameters.

Looks like in CRU the monitor ID is wrong, it should be "AUS27B1", with this the EDID_OVERRIDE tab will open up after you change the monitor ID to the correct name and do a restart64.exe.

So in nvtimingsED, there are a list of monitorID's to choose from. I find some monitorId's do not work at all in CRU, while some do. So you can play around with choosing other 3d vision monitor ID's in nvtimingED to change into CRU.

this will enable Generic CRT within the Nvidia stereoscopic 3D tab.

You are on the right track.

Once the monitor ID is changed to AUS27B1 in CRU, the nvidia stereoscoptic 3d tab will show it as a 3d vision monitor.

Is there a way to use that INF file to override the EDID?

Yes you can use an inf file to override the EDID, this doesn't always stick as the EDID may reset back to default. I can create an INF, but the above method works better. Once you get it working, you can export the regedit and remerge it if it goes back to default.