Meant to be Seen

I may be posting this in the wrong section (sorry if so), but have a question that I haven't seen an answer to yet on google or this forum (sorry if it has been posted)

When the 3080 or 3080 TI release, will they support 3d vision using the modded (Fixed) drivers we can use on current Hardware?

Does anyone know yet?

If so... Nvidia take my money now (Here is $1200+ cash without question when we can order them)! If not.. then I will never buy another Nvidia card past the 2080 TI!

No-one knows - they haven't even been officially announced yet. Doesn't seem like there will be a 3080 Ti initially - place reserved for 3090.

Not a guarantee, but I expect it will work. Unlikely for the drivers to change significantly for the new gpus. I have a 2060 super that I must use modded drivers for 3d. No issues so far. Ofcourse the day might come that new drivers can't be modded, but I'm guessing that won't happen before the new cards launch.

...

3DNovice wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:02 pm I hope someone here takes the leap right away and confirms that they work.

If they do not, I'd like to buy another 2080ti for backup purposes, before they are hard to get.

Too late actually, already hard to get. I took a look to see, and can't really find anything at present. Nothing new available anywhere, and ebay prices have jacked to $1600. NVidia already killed all previous cards, nothing is being manufactured right now except 3080 gen.

'RTX 3090' or whatever it might be called, seems to be predicted to cost ~$2000...

https://www.techpowerup.com/271081/rumo ... 2-000-mark

The size of this thing...



https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-gefo ... d-pictured

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-gefo ... ons-leaked

Specs seem to suggest 3080 will be ~2080 Ti.

Nothing confirmed yet but I'm a tad disappointed at the numbers:

2080Ti = 4,352 cuda cores
3080 = 4,352 cuda cores
3090 = 5,248 cuda cores

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:45 am Specs seem to suggest 3080 will be ~2080 Ti.

Same as 2080 is ~1080 Ti. It looks like they can only do small incremental performance improvements since GeForce 10 Series.

john105 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:58 pm

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:45 am Specs seem to suggest 3080 will be ~2080 Ti.

Same as 2080 is ~1080 Ti. It looks like they can only do small incremental performance improvements since GeForce 10 Series.

More like, "we own the market, we can do small incremental improvements and they will shell $1000-2000 since they don't have any real alternative."

Rumour: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/74814/sa ... d/amp.html

NVIDIA's new Ampere-based GeForce RTX 3080 is said to be around 15-25% better than the RTX 2080 Ti, which will be a big deal if the GeForce RTX 3080 is priced at $799. The slightly lower-end GeForce RTX 3070 will reportedly offer RTX 2080 Ti level performance for $599 -- which is going to really shake things up.

We should see NVIDIA's new GeForce RTX 3090 feature a huge 24GB of next-gen GDDR6X memory at 21Gbps, while the GeForce RTX 3080 will have 10GB of GDDR6X at 19Gbps.

Here's an easier break down for you:

GeForce RTX 3090: $1399

GeForce RTX 3080: $799

GeForce RTX 3070: $599

GeForce RTX 3060: $399

That sounds really good, I really hope it's true.

skyrimer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:39 am

john105 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:58 pm

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:45 am Specs seem to suggest 3080 will be ~2080 Ti.

Same as 2080 is ~1080 Ti. It looks like they can only do small incremental performance improvements since GeForce 10 Series.

More like, "we own the market, we can do small incremental improvements and they will shell $1000-2000 since they don't have any real alternative."

At that point they can compete against themselves. People won't upgrade if the improvement isn't worth the money.

Official:

RTX 3070 Starting at $500
RTX 3080 Starting at $700
RTX 3090 Starting at $1500 (?)

Insightful graph of performance vs price:


3070 is $500 and same performance as 2080 Ti

Best to wait for actual 3rd party benchmarks, but looks encouraging...

Now the big question is: Can this gen be hacked to work with 3DV?

I'm really surprised, the 3070 at 2080ti performance for 500, wow, well done Nvidia. I can imagine we'll see used 2080ti for 400,that's fantastic, though I have yet to see if retailers will respect those price ranges.

Crossing fingers that we can get 3000 series to work in 3d, hopefully someone will be able to test it soon enough. In any case I'm pretty sure I'll be able to grab at least a 2080ti this year.

Jensen tried to lowball tsmc since samsung was giving a great deal. Tsmc said f off we're full anyway. Even if samsungs 8nm is inferior to tsmc 7nm, the node shrink looks amazing for performance improvements alone due to increase of transistor density. Seems like Jensen wants cheap RTX now, so that everyone will be on board with RTX for the future, which is probably why he went with samsung for cheaper manufacturing and the suprisingly affordable pricing scheme for the performance (3070 / 3080).

I am honestly feeling a bit annoyed because I originally got terrorised into buying a 2080ti when I wasn't going to at all, until they dropped 3dvision support which made me panic and get two. lol
Not going to be recouping much cost back it seems since it seems you will now be able to get better performance with a 3070 for basically half the cost.

That said these performance claims are hard to ignore, if 3dvision still works with modified drivers.... I would be very surprised if they don't force you to use a release driver for these cards.
Fingers crossed.

The performance increase is really mindblowing, even more at that price, at least 70% in 3080 vs 2080, I pray we can get it to work in 3d somehow:

RTX 3080 vs RTX 2080 4K/Max Settings Perf Boost
Borderlands 3 +81.6%
Doom Eternal +84.2%
Shadow of the Tomb Raider +69.8%
Control +77.6%
Ray Tracing: Quake 2 RTX +92.3%
Ray Tracing: Control/High RT/DLSS Perf +77.6%

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... a-rtx-3080

I've already seen a used 2080ti selling for 520 euro, things are going fast lol.

Obveron wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:51 pm Not a guarantee, but I expect it will work. Unlikely for the drivers to change significantly for the new gpus. I have a 2060 super that I must use modded drivers for 3d. No issues so far. Ofcourse the day might come that new drivers can't be modded, but I'm guessing that won't happen before the new cards launch.

I've been looking at the super cards. Are you running win 10,8, or 7? I'm still running 7 so I don't know what kinds of tricks I'm going to need to get 3D back up and running

For what it's worth, I and many others are running the latest builds of Windows 10 without any problems what so ever since launch - all fully patched and updated with the best compatibility and game performance on the market. No dual boot etc necessary.

Any so called 'problem' of running win10 for 3D vision have been greatly exaggerated

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:59 pm For what it's worth, I and many others are running the latest builds of Windows 10 without any problems what so ever since launch - all fully patched and updated with the best compatibility and game performance on the market. No dual boot etc necessary.

Any so called 'problem' of running win10 for 3D vision have been greatly exaggerated

I'm just trying to figure out how complicated it will be to restore 3D if I buy a super card and install it on a win 7 machine.

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:59 pm For what it's worth, I and many others are running the latest builds of Windows 10 without any problems what so ever since launch - all fully patched and updated with the best compatibility and game performance on the market. No dual boot etc necessary.

Any so called 'problem' of running win10 for 3D vision have been greatly exaggerated

I still have some mild concerns regarding competitive multiplayer games and how to driver injection works with later builds of Windows 10. I understand 3dmigoto itself takes care of this now instead of the dll hak, but I am unclear how this works exactly.
Also for now I am keeping my windows 7 dual boot because I have found some games for CM which refuse to run in exclusive fullscreen in 10

Feisty_Fernando wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:51 am

Obveron wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:51 pm Not a guarantee, but I expect it will work. Unlikely for the drivers to change significantly for the new gpus. I have a 2060 super that I must use modded drivers for 3d. No issues so far. Ofcourse the day might come that new drivers can't be modded, but I'm guessing that won't happen before the new cards launch.

I've been looking at the super cards. Are you running win 10,8, or 7? I'm still running 7 so I don't know what kinds of tricks I'm going to need to get 3D back up and running

Windows 10 since update 1909 forces the use of DCH packaged drivers, which up until recently were not easily moddable. I kept my windows 10 at 1809 so I could use standard packaged drivers, which are easily modded with 3d fix manager. Windows 7 also uses the standard packaged drivers, so it should be easy to mod them the same way, although I haven't personally tried it.

Obveron wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:24 am Windows 10 since update 1909 forces the use of DCH packaged drivers, which up until recently were not easily moddable. I kept my windows 10 at 1809 so I could use standard packaged drivers, which are easily modded with 3d fix manager. Windows 7 also uses the standard packaged drivers, so it should be easy to mod them the same way, although I haven't personally tried it.

Not sure where you're getting this info from mate, but I have always had standard drivers on all builds and creator's updates of Windows 10; standard drivers have always been installable for me. I have never heard anyone say that windows 10 build X was limited to DCH drivers before now... maybe there is a misunderstanding somewhere... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Necropants wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:40 pmI still have some mild concerns regarding competitive multiplayer games and how to driver injection works with later builds of Windows 10. I understand 3dmigoto itself takes care of this now instead of the dll hak, but I am unclear how this works exactly.
Also for now I am keeping my windows 7 dual boot because I have found some games for CM which refuse to run in exclusive fullscreen in 10

Your concerns are justified. We just don't know what the anti-cheat people will care about, and what they let slide. As a general rule, no one seems to care about 3Dmigoto injection, we've not gotten any reports of bans.

But video driver hacking is another level, and potentially risky. Again, we don't know and have gotten no reports, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

If you are running anything higher than 425.31, you are running a hacked driver. It doesn't matter the technique, all of our approaches fundamentally use the original, brilliant, Schwing hack.

For HelixVision, I pioneered a new approach for the hacking, because we felt that a system wide modification was a step too far. What I did instead was to figure out how to load the hacked driver into the game directory, just like we do for dx11.dll. And force it to load over the system version, whenever we are running. This means that anything else running in the background has the normal, unmodified, system driver. Only the game sees the hack, and we remove it as soon as the game exits, in case they run it in 2D.

PaulDusler liked the results from this approach so much that he also made it the default choice in 3DFM, as opposed to the system wide driver hack that we've mostly been using. The driver wide hack is still available in 3DFM, but never in HelixVision. Some games don't play nice, and need the system wide hack.

For other tools like Losti's scripts, or Robert256's BringBack3DV- these are system wide driver hacks, modifying the driver in the system32 directory.


So... if you are concerned about bans, definitely stick with Win7 or 1809 as long as you can, where the crashing bug doesn't exist.

1809 it is then...
Thanks for the Clarification. Bo3bber =)

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:19 pm

Obveron wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:24 am Windows 10 since update 1909 forces the use of DCH packaged drivers, which up until recently were not easily moddable. I kept my windows 10 at 1809 so I could use standard packaged drivers, which are easily modded with 3d fix manager. Windows 7 also uses the standard packaged drivers, so it should be easy to mod them the same way, although I haven't personally tried it.

Not sure where you're getting this info from mate, but I have always had standard drivers on all builds and creator's updates of Windows 10; standard drivers have always been installable for me. I have never heard anyone say that windows 10 build X was limited to DCH drivers before now... maybe there is a misunderstanding somewhere... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wow I think Ive fundamentally misunderstood the dch driver situation in the latest Windows updates dates. Ive been avoiding updating because I thought I'd be forced into DCH. Well thanks for the setting the record straight.

Obveron wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:26 pmWow I think Ive fundamentally misunderstood the dch driver situation in the latest Windows updates dates. Ive been avoiding updating because I thought I'd be forced into DCH. Well thanks for the setting the record straight.

There was some confusion introduced by Microsoft and/or Nvidia when they introduced DCH drivers, that you might still run into. Initial drivers past the 425.31 point could not be converted on the fly from DCH to Standard drivers. You would get a false error of "This driver is incompatible." You had to use DDU to scrub out the old driver to switch modes.

I'm not sure what driver or OS fixed the problem, but it's no longer necessary to do that on any of the 446 or greater drivers. You can switch by just running the installer, but will probably need to reboot.

We mostly recommend Standard drivers because the hack to bring back 3D causes a launch delay when used with 3D. It works, but the 3 second delay gets old.

You can also use either 3DFM or HelixVision which will offer the correct driver and switch for you.

bo3bber wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:23 pm Your concerns are justified. We just don't know what the anti-cheat people will care about, and what they let slide. As a general rule, no one seems to care about 3Dmigoto injection, we've not gotten any reports of bans.

For HelixVision, I pioneered a new approach for the hacking, because we felt that a system wide modification was a step too far. What I did instead was to figure out how to load the hacked driver into the game directory, just like we do for dx11.dll. And force it to load over the system version, whenever we are running. This means that anything else running in the background has the normal, unmodified, system driver. Only the game sees the hack, and we remove it as soon as the game exits, in case they run it in 2D.

Anyway to get 3dmigoto injection to work without the dll in the folder? Can't get overwatch to work because the game refuses to run with d3d11.dll in the game folder. Tried both helix vision and 3dfm. It works fine if I just use native 3dv + CM unleashed. Need either helixvision or 3dmigoto to get TB/SBS for vr.

1900 Accumulated 4k benchmarks:



Credits: https://www.3dcenter.org/news/geforce-r ... ueberblick

kakashisensei wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:49 pmAnyway to get 3dmigoto injection to work without the dll in the folder? Can't get overwatch to work because the game refuses to run with d3d11.dll in the game folder. Tried both helix vision and 3dfm. It works fine if I just use native 3dv + CM unleashed. Need either helixvision or 3dmigoto to get TB/SBS for vr.

There's a couple of things you could try. Try using the 0.9.29 version of HelixVision, found in the Betas tab. That predates the chang for using 3Dmigoto to do the VR connection, and uses an injection technique. Not super likely to work with a game like Overwatch, but worth a try. In current versions of HelixVision we only support the 3Dmigoto connection because it's vastly more reliable, but hadn't really considered a use case like this.

Second thing you could try is to use the 3Dmigoto_launcher itself. You can specify the game to connect in the d3dx.ini file, and run the launcher first. It waits and connects to the named game, using an external file approach. Also not super likely in Overwatch, but depends upon their anti-cheat code.

Be aware that either of these could be considered a cheat and get you banned though.

Edit: Two other thoughts. You can also possibly use the global driver hack available in 3DFM, or using BringBack3DV. Lastly- for something strange like this, 425.31 is probably the easiest approach. No hack required with 425.31, Win10 1809, or Win7.

Be very careful, I was banned from overwatch for using 3dmigoto I think.
Honestly .. no great loss. But I recommend you just put up with CM if you care about your account on this game.

bo3bber wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 pm There's a couple of things you could try. Try using the 0.9.29 version of HelixVision, found in the Betas tab. That predates the chang for using 3Dmigoto to do the VR connection, and uses an injection technique. Not super likely to work with a game like Overwatch, but worth a try. In current versions of HelixVision we only support the 3Dmigoto connection because it's vastly more reliable, but hadn't really considered a use case like this.

Second thing you could try is to use the 3Dmigoto_launcher itself. You can specify the game to connect in the d3dx.ini file, and run the launcher first. It waits and connects to the named game, using an external file approach. Also not super likely in Overwatch, but depends upon their anti-cheat code.

Thank you for the info. Unfortunately I tried both but still doesnt work. Overwatch would spit out an error using the launcher injection. For helix vision on the recent and older one, virtual screen is stuck on launching text although the game launches fine. Guess overwatch exe has all sorts of protections against dll injections.

On another note, I found an issue with helix vision on the recent versions. Not sure if this may only apply to WMR headsets. The max refresh/frame rate of the game is always half of the headset refresh rate. I'm using RTSS to show fps. Katanga window will show 90fps, but the game on the desktop will only max at 45fps. If I set my WMR headset to only 60hz, then katanga will be max 60fps, and in game will only be 30fps. In the VR headset, it looks like it is at the lower frame rate, less smooth. It ignores whatever I set for monitor/driver or game settings for refresh rate/fps limits.

If I use 0.9.29, there is no issue and game in desktop maxes out monitor refresh rate. I've only tried the steam default version and 0.9.38, and they both have this issue for me. Has anyone reported anything similar to you?

I just tried the new driver version 456.38 supporting the new RTX 3000 series cards and so far I wasn't able to get DX11 games to work. DX9 games still work.

The global driver hack does not work any more - 3DFM can't find find Schwing's hex pattern any more which has to be replaced in nvwgf2um(x).dll. Local driver hack therefore also does not work any more. No crash however when starting DX11 games without the hack. No 3D. Neither 3D Vision nor anaglyph.

Anyone more luck?

I'm on Win10 v. 2004

Does Win7 or Win 10 v.1809 still work for anyone?

Schwing?

A bit worried with that news, but the fact that dx9 games still work give me some hope that it can be fixed somehow, Schwing could you please give it a look?

skyrimer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:21 am A bit worried with that news, but the fact that dx9 games still work give me some hope that it can be fixed somehow, Schwing could you please give it a look?

Yeah man I'm also worried. I tested on two PCs and both failed in DX11. Still I hope I'm wrong and it works for other people. So any feedback is very welcome here. Haven't tested HelixVision - only pure 3D Vision and 3D Vision Discover but I expect the curated DX9 titles still work there.

My hopes are on Schwing and his driver magic.

Update: OpenGL with Helifax's OpenGL Wrapper also still works. Pretty sure that Vulkan wrapper also still works. So DX11 is our issue here. DX11 is used in 95% of all games currently... so pretty bad >.<.

Would it be possible to try substituting the nvwgf2um(x).dll file from an older 'known working' driver as a half-way trial?

I'm have confidence in genius Schwing and others; for them, it *might* be something like identifying a new hex pattern

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:34 am Would it be possible to try substituting the nvwgf2um(x).dll file from an older 'known working' driver as a half-way trial?

I'm have confidence in genius Schwing and others; for them, it *might* be something like identifying a new hex pattern

First it would be important that people in this forum try the new driver. I don't have Win 10 v.1809 installed - so everyone who still has Win 10 v.1809 installed should definitely try the new driver and report here if DX11 titles still work. Then it might be good enough to fake another Win10 version number instead of diving into the dll file and search for patterns. And anyway: everyone who reads this: please report your experiences with the new Geforce driver v.456.38!

I too am on Win10 Pro 2004. It would be good to have more info as I could help investigate, as with previous driver hacks...

Not sure why we are trying to fake win10 Version numbers? I have forgotten most of the steps of the original driver hack by now, but if I recall, it had to do with convincing the 3DV drivers that the new nVidia drivers were compatible - I do not recall Win10 version number being an issue though I am likely wrong if you say it is.

My take is that if the hex pattern matching fails outright, then that is an issue in and of itself regardless of whether DX11 games work, and it will likely lead to other issues which we may not be fully aware of as yet - we ought to get a pattern recognised/dll replaced, and if I recall (possibly incorrectly), this is independent of Windows10 Version.

I could be wrong; it has been a while and many things have changed... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

RAGEdemon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:53 pm I too am on Win10 Pro 2004. It would be good to have more info as I could help investigate, as with previous driver hacks...

Not sure why we are trying to fake win10 Version numbers? I have forgotten most of the steps of the original driver hack by now, but if I recall, it had to do with convincing the 3DV drivers that the new nVidia drivers were compatible - I do not recall Win10 version number being an issue though I am likely wrong if you say it is.

My take is that if the hex pattern matching fails outright, then that is an issue in and of itself regardless of whether DX11 games work, and it will likely lead to other issues which we may not be fully aware of as yet - we ought to get a pattern recognised/dll replaced, and if I recall (possibly incorrectly), this is independent of Windows10 Version.

I could be wrong; it has been a while and many things have changed... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Faking another Windows 10 version is just an idea by Bo3b and me. What we know is that stereo 3D on Win 10 v.1809 still worked until driver version 452.06 without any driver hack. But Win 10 v. 1903 or higher already failed after Geforce driver 425.31 without the hack. So for version after 425.31 it seems Nvidia added a version check into their driver whether Windows 10 is higher or lower 1809. Depending on the OS version Nvidia decides whether 3D is allowed to be triggered or not (this might be what the Schwing driver hack overrides - nobody knows for sure what the hex override does!). So if we were able to tell the Nvidia driver to be still on 1809 although we have 2004 installed this might fix our issue. Not worth to be implemented if people report that it's not working on Windows 10 v.1809 either. If any people will report at all because this forum is dead actually. In worst case I'll have to install 1809 myself to have an answer this weekend instead of waiting weeks or months until 1-2 users report back.