What is the Best VR now, Valve index, Vive Cosmos?

[Chtiblue]

Thanks Zig,

Yep the resolution of hp reverb with oled seems to what we need for the next vive or so to t did of SDE.

I haven't any success so far with helixvision, I had to try it again tomorrow, any tips to know to get it working?
Where is the list of compatible games with helixvision mod?
I didn't find it on steam forum

[zig11727]

@Chtiblue

To be honest I purchased HelixVision to support it seems hit or miss but the few older games I played worked well. I mostly use Vorpx also all my headset have custom lens made for them which is a must for me to enjoy the headsets. My eyesight is bad.
Roughly $105 extra on each headset for WMR or VR optician lens
With the hp reverb there still is SDE but you have to look for it. The best describe I could give it's like looking at 1080P monitor everything is crystal clear.

Just a word Vorpx supports RDR 2 it's buffered 3D but it looks great on my reverb and index.

All my headset still weren't as expense as Samsung 55HU9000 3D TV when it was released $3100

[bo3bber]

Thanks Zig,

Yep the resolution of hp reverb with oled seems to what we need for the next vive or so to t did of SDE.

I haven't any success so far with helixvision, I had to try it again tomorrow, any tips to know to get it working?
Where is the list of compatible games with helixvision mod?
I didn't find it on steam forum

Please tell me more. Goal is to make it plug-and-play without having to do much of anything.

When you first launch it should be in VirtualReality mode, and the list of games on the left is everything that has been tested and known working in VR.

We have a 15% refund rate, which suggests that you are not alone in having it not work out of the box, and it'd be really helpful to know why.


Not positive that if you have used 3DFM whether it launches in proper mode. If it is showing every HelixMod fix, then you are in 3DVision mode, which is sort of super-user mode. This lets you try anything and everything in HelixMod, but lots of games won't work, especially DX9.

Go to Settings Tab to see which mode it is in. Should work fine for any current PC headset, including all mentioned in this thread.

[zig11727]

@bo3bber

After the holidays I will play around with HelixVision and post my results I will include all the hardware I tested it with and the Windows build number and driver version to be on the safe side I will only test with NVidia driver version 425.XX.

[whyme466]

@zig11727 - how is tracking in HP Reverb V2? Could you play Asgard’s Wrath with it? You imply that it is more suited to static applications.

[zig11727]

@zig11727 - how is tracking in HP Reverb V2? Could you play Asgard’s Wrath with it? You imply that it is more suited to static applications.

Yes you can play it but the WMR controllers don't feel right it's better on the Rift.

[Chtiblue]

Ok Bo3bber,
I'll let you know.
Now that you said it, I had test with games not on the list, manually searching for it.

[Chtiblue]

Just a word Vorpx supports RDR 2 it's buffered 3D but it looks great on my reverb and index.

In Vorpx and RDR2, when I'm in VR mod, with resolution 16/9, I can't see the edge of the screen (aka the map on the left & action options on the right), and with custom resolutions like 3200x2880 or 1600x1440 (like in the forum) I have a square picture with all the picture, kinda strange but I think it's normal

[Chtiblue]

A french product that could be very cool with VR!
#bass immersion

https://www.bassme.fr/boutique/bassme/

[whyme466]

Chtiblue - did you ever install the Vive Pro lens replacement mod? What were your impressions, if you did?

[Chtiblue]

@Whyme466, I didn't yet receive the modded lens, but I did receive the HP Reverb and so far it's so much better resolution and better SDE, so I don't think I could go back to the Vive pro now even if black, colors & tracking are better on vive pro…

WMR controllers feels better than Vive controllers (because of Joysticks and much smaller), I will play Asgard tonight to see if it's ok!

[skyrimer]

@Chtiblue can't wait to hear your thoughts on Reverb and Asgard Wrath.

[Chtiblue]

It seems very playable for me, I just need a Chair without arms
Increase in resolution is very noticeable, particulary on near objects, textures etc. On far distance DSE is noticeable
but less than Vive Pro (non modded yet)

Do your lighthouse laser bases make a high pitch noise when ON? On google I sawsome people having this high pitch noise too. I'm wondering myself if it's normal or because they are old...

[whyme466]

My original version Lighthouse bass stations make no noise, but I turn them on ONLY when using VR. The Vive Pro lens mod improves the high resolution sweet spot and essentially eliminates god rays - but offers no improvement for SDE (only increased resolution like Reverb will do this). How are Reverb’s god rays?

With respect to Reverb tracking, are you playing on Legendary or Wraith mode, where parry timing REALLY matters?

[Chtiblue]

strange how I can no more edit my post on this forum since a few days, neither I can't clixk on the last message post… Anyone else?

Didn't notice much god rays, it's more glare (I think cause by the fresnels) with bright lights on dark screen.

The really missing things are blacks and so contrast.

I think it is on legendary mode by default in Asgard, isn't it? I have to test both mode...

[Losti]

I sell my Rift S soon, because i cannot live with this crappy Pixel Display. Also the cable is not cool. I Need Wireless with much more Resolution than the Rift S but not for 1500 €.

If anyone want to buye my Rift S just let me know. What are the recommodations for my requirements? I think Valve Pro will not have a much bette resulution, or am i wrong?

But i Need HelixVision Support ^^

[zig11727]

@Losti

The Vive Pro it's the same resolution as the original Samsung and Samsung + which likes blurry compare to the Cosmos, Index and Reverb

Vive Pro total resolution is 2880 x 1600 (the screen is OLED which IMO isn't as good as LCD)
Index 2880 x 1600 (80, 90, 120, 144) HZ
Cosmos 2880 x 1700 90 HZ
Reverb 4320 x 2160 90 HZ

[Chtiblue]

Yep the winner for the resolution is HP Reverb for now.

Zig, why do you think that OLED screen isn't as good as LCD?
Black & contrast are the only thing that I prefer on the Vive pro vs Hp Reverb.

[zig11727]

My two Samsungs and original Rift CV1 had Oled there always looked blurry for some reason and I have corrected lens for my VR equipment the Samsung's I own are unplayable even my god children say the same they would rather play with Rift-S it's clearer. This doesn't hold true with TV Oled is better than Led.

[zig11727]

Also the Hp Reverb has very bright picture for some reason.

[whyme466]

The Vive/Vive Pro lens mod helps reduce blurriness, god rays, and glare.

I cannot edit posts either in this forum (very recent problem).

[Chtiblue]

Yep thx Whyme, nor quote posts or whatever

[Losti]

So i should get the HP Reverb ????

[Chtiblue]

Actually for the best resolution available, yes
With the possibility to send it back if you don't like it

[bo3bber]

@Losti

The Vive Pro it's the same resolution as the original Samsung and Samsung + which likes blurry compare to the Cosmos, Index and Reverb

Vive Pro total resolution is 2880 x 1600 (the screen is OLED which IMO isn't as good as LCD)
Index 2880 x 1600 (80, 90, 120, 144) HZ
Cosmos 2880 x 1700 90 HZ
Reverb 4320 x 2160 90 HZ

The resolution is going to look better for LCD based screens, because of the pixel layout. OLED are almost always pentile layout, which makes them look worse than a similarly specced LCD. That's one reason the Index looks better than the Vive Pro, even as they both have same resolution.

Black levels are not as good on LCD, making for washed out blacks, and not as vibrant colors.

So i should get the HP Reverb ????

I think that the best headset for any given person will depend highly upon what they want to play and what they care the most about.

If you play only seated driving games for example, then high resolution is pretty much paramount and Reverb is clearly a good choice.

If you play a deep space game like Elite Dangerous, then high resolution matters, but so does having good blacks. LCD screens like Reverb tend to be greyish blacks, not true blacks.

If you play fast paced games like BeatSaber or something where tracking really matters, no WMR is going to cut it. Their tracking is pathetic by comparison to any Vive based setup. People continue to make excuses for their poor tracking, but having used both extensively, the WMR is barely acceptable for controller tracking.

Pimax is an option, higher resolution, and good LightHouse tracking. No wireless though.


I would skip Cosmos as having the worst of both worlds, bad tracking, and also bad HTC support.

Rift-S is an interesting mid-range headset, but doesn't meet either of my bars for good tracking or high resolution. It's cheap though, so maybe a good compromise. Doesn't sound like the resolution is acceptable for you however.

I also think that wireless is a must have now, and the only options there are Vive and Vive Pro. And maybe Quest if you want to go a totally different route (no HelixVision for now though.)


Based on what you've said, I think Vive Pro is what you will want. I've used Vive Pro extensively, and it's pretty good. I'd like the resolution to be a bit higher, but I no longer find the screen door objectionable.

[Chtiblue]

Hi Bo3b,

Do you have the mod gear lens with your Vive pro?

[Losti]

@Losti

The Vive Pro it's the same resolution as the original Samsung and Samsung + which likes blurry compare to the Cosmos, Index and Reverb

Vive Pro total resolution is 2880 x 1600 (the screen is OLED which IMO isn't as good as LCD)
Index 2880 x 1600 (80, 90, 120, 144) HZ
Cosmos 2880 x 1700 90 HZ
Reverb 4320 x 2160 90 HZ

The resolution is going to look better for LCD based screens, because of the pixel layout. OLED are almost always pentile layout, which makes them look worse than a similarly specced LCD. That's one reason the Index looks better than the Vive Pro, even as they both have same resolution.

Black levels are not as good on LCD, making for washed out blacks, and not as vibrant colors.

So i should get the HP Reverb ????

I think that the best headset for any given person will depend highly upon what they want to play and what they care the most about.

If you play only seated driving games for example, then high resolution is pretty much paramount and Reverb is clearly a good choice.

If you play a deep space game like Elite Dangerous, then high resolution matters, but so does having good blacks. LCD screens like Reverb tend to be greyish blacks, not true blacks.

If you play fast paced games like BeatSaber or something where tracking really matters, no WMR is going to cut it. Their tracking is pathetic by comparison to any Vive based setup. People continue to make excuses for their poor tracking, but having used both extensively, the WMR is barely acceptable for controller tracking.

Pimax is an option, higher resolution, and good LightHouse tracking. No wireless though.


I would skip Cosmos as having the worst of both worlds, bad tracking, and also bad HTC support.

Rift-S is an interesting mid-range headset, but doesn't meet either of my bars for good tracking or high resolution. It's cheap though, so maybe a good compromise. Doesn't sound like the resolution is acceptable for you however.

I also think that wireless is a must have now, and the only options there are Vive and Vive Pro. And maybe Quest if you want to go a totally different route (no HelixVision for now though.)


Based on what you've said, I think Vive Pro is what you will want. I've used Vive Pro extensively, and it's pretty good. I'd like the resolution to be a bit higher, but I no longer find the screen door objectionable.

Thank you so much for this ! Sounds good ! Ok the Vive Pro .... Ähm but the Resolution is near the same like in the Rift S istn it? Noticable difference? Rift S Res. is sooo disturbing! I have tried to Play Metro 2033 Redux with Helixvision but the Resolution is an absolutely no go.

Vive Pro is arrund 900 € ???? WTF .... I only Need VR Headset to Play games with HelixVision, im currently not really interested in real VR applications. I do not have the space in my room Just want to have a comfortable 3D Screen directly at my eyes thats all. But for this, the Rift S is a no go because of the Resolution. I think i dont Need fast tracking currently. Is HP Reverb working with HelixVision?


So whats this GearVR Lens mod ?? What does it do? Im sorr for stupid questions but all my free time in the past was spend in gamefixing so i misses many things arround me

[whyme466]

I have a link on the first page of this topic to the lens mod I used - it replaces Fresnel lens with GearVR continuous lens in 3D-printed lens holders fitting Vive/Vive Pro HMD lens openings. Not sure how many others are using this mod besides Helifax and me, but I highly recommend it.

On the other hand, if you have no interest in playing great VR games like Asgard’s Wrath, Stormland, and Half Life - which require more rigorous dynamic tracking (and, ideally, wireless connection for better mobility) - Reverb should work great for HelixVision’s more static operation. Note that Vive Pro/Index resolution already tax an overclocked, hybrid-cooled 2080Ti in games like Asgard’s Wrath. Higher resolution devices like Pimax 8KX really need 2080Ti’s eventual successor...

Good to see that we can edit posts and use quotes again - quick problem response in this forum.

[Chtiblue]

Is HP Reverb working with HelixVision?

I believe Zig has it working with Helixvision, could you confirm Zig?

For now here on my setup with win 1903 with driver 425.31 or 441.20, 3D and WMR can't work together, 3D activated and launch WMR can't launch properly and always crash the nvidia driver… For the moment it's WMR or 3D...

Vorpx works fine.

[Chtiblue]

wrong post

[zig11727]

To be honest the HP Reverb tacks my system to the max so anything with greater resolution and fov will have to wait till the next generation of video cards.

System specs

Aorus 2080ti xtreme
R9-3950
64 GB of Ram @ 3200
Aorus X570 wifi pro

My wife now owns my old I9-9900K system.

[zig11727]

Is HP Reverb working with HelixVision?

I believe Zig has it working with Helixvision, could you confirm Zig?

For now here on my setup with win 1903 with driver 425.31 or 441.20, 3D and WMR can't work together, 3D activated and launch WMR can't launch properly and always crash the nvidia driver… For the moment it's WMR or 3D...

Vorpx works fine.

I can't confirm right now due to I have driver 441.66 installed I will test later on and try to post my results something came up I must attend to first.

[bo3bber]

Hi Bo3b,

Do you have the mod gear lens with your Vive pro?

Not yet, but it's definitely on the agenda. Have not had time in recent months, too much HelixVision coding.

For now here on my setup with win 1903 with driver 425.31 or 441.20, 3D and WMR can't work together, 3D activated and launch WMR can't launch properly and always crash the nvidia driver… For the moment it's WMR or 3D...

Vorpx works fine.

This is not correct. 3D Vision can and does work with WMR, but requires a special setup. Microsoft is too pathetic to fix that fatal crashing bug that I reported twice, so we wound up making our own fix. Any WMR works fine with HelixVision. I use a Dell WMR to test.

I can't confirm right now due to I have driver 441.66 installed I will test later on and try to post my results something came up I must attend to first.

Driver 441.66 should work fine with HelixVision if you've installed the Schwing hack. Games outside of UE4 will also work OK here.

I would expect HP Reverb to work just like the other WMR headsets, and be compatible with HelixVision. But I don't have one, and have not tested, so actual testing is better than predictions. It will break your computers balls to run Reverb+Game, but it should look pretty great.

[bo3bber]

Thank you so much for this ! Sounds good ! Ok the Vive Pro .... Ähm but the Resolution is near the same like in the Rift S istn it? Noticable difference? Rift S Res. is sooo disturbing! I have tried to Play Metro 2033 Redux with Helixvision but the Resolution is an absolutely no go.

Vive Pro is arrund 900 € ???? WTF .... I only Need VR Headset to Play games with HelixVision, im currently not really interested in real VR applications. I do not have the space in my room Just want to have a comfortable 3D Screen directly at my eyes thats all. But for this, the Rift S is a no go because of the Resolution. I think i dont Need fast tracking currently. Is HP Reverb working with HelixVision?

Yeah, the Vive Pro is a total ripoff. No question. But for me, I do get best results with it, including wireless ability. I have not heard of anyone using HP Reverb with HelixVision yet, but I would expect this to work.


Resolution-wise, Rift-S is 2560x1440, slightly less than WMR at 2800x1440, but below the 2800x1600 of the Vive Pro. Might look comparable however because of the difference in OLED pentile vs. LCD linear pixel layouts. Splitting hairs though.

Headset resolutions sorted by vertical resolution. Horizontal resolution is mostly irrelevant unless you care about FOV, vertical is important for ScreenDoorEffect: (filling out Zig's table) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... y_headsets

• Reverb 4320 x 2160 90 HZ LCD
• Pimax-4K 3840 x 2160 60 Hz LCD
• Cosmos 2880 x 1700 90 HZ LCD
• Index 2880 x 1600 (80, 90, 120, 144) HZ LCD
• WMR Odyssey+ 2880 x 1600 90 Hz AMOLED
• Vive Pro 2880 x 1600 90 Hz OLED
• Pimax-5K+ 5120 x 1440 90 Hz LCD
• WMR 2880 x 1440 90 Hz LCD
• Rift-S 2560 x 1440 80 Hz LCD
• Rift-CV1 2560 x 1200 90 Hz OLED
• Vive 2560 x 1200 90 Hz OLED

Everyone is different, but in my opinion the original Vive and CV1 are not good enough for HelixVision use, too low res. Rift-S is also not a good choice. But at 1600 vertical, I think HelixVision is just barely acceptable, so Vive Pro, Index, Odyssey+, Pimax4K would be OK. It's roughly comparable to a 1080p monitor resolution, even though visually larger.


You reversed your comment from above. If you only care about playing HelixVision, then wireless is irrelevant, because it will be a seated experience. If wireless is not required, and you find the Rift-S 2560x1440 to be too marginal, then Vive Pro is probably not the right call. Especially if you don't care about the tracking quality.

Just to be clear: There is no one-best VR headset today. None are clear winners in every category, not even Index, so it depends upon what is important to each person.


For strictly HelixVision use, as a replacement projector/3D Vision monitor, I'd go with the WMR Odyssey+. You can get this on sale right now for about $250, which is unquestionably the best VR deal. The '+' version includes a screen filter to soften the image, which really helps remove the SDE. I tested one, but sent it back because the headband was too uncomfortable, but the screens are very good.

Next up price wise would be Pimax4K at $375. Have not tested this, but should be a pretty good headset for HelixVision. Probably that price does not include the base stations though.

HP Reverb will definitely be terrific for seated, non-tracking related, experiences. But at $600 it's quite a lot more expensive.

For non-tracking specific gaming like HelixVision, HTC Cosmos is worth consideration, because that 1700 vertical is a bit better than anyone except Reverb.


If you can get a WMR Odyssey+ on sale, you should do that, and experiment with it. Cheap. And you can then determine if that 1600 vertical is good enough, or whether you'd need HP Reverb.

Band is very uncomfortable depending upon person/head. Tracking is usual WMR and pretty weak. Blacks are very good with AMOLED screen.

[Chtiblue]

For now here on my setup with win 1903 with driver 425.31 or 441.20, 3D and WMR can't work together, 3D activated and launch WMR can't launch properly and always crash the nvidia driver… For the moment it's WMR or 3D...
Vorpx works fine.

This is not correct. 3D Vision can and does work with WMR, but requires a special setup. Microsoft is too pathetic to fix that fatal crashing bug that I reported twice, so we wound up making our own fix. Any WMR works fine with HelixVision. I use a Dell WMR to test

Great!
Glad to hear it, could you give me the special set up needed to get 3dvision working with Wmr?

I got my reverb second hand for 410€, so I'm pretty happy with it despite tracking can be a real pita in some detective or searching game in my too short room.

As we can leave ss at 100% with Hp reverb, in VR it runs quite the same as the vive pro, but I can't say for helixvision as I can't test performance in helixvision for the moment.

[bo3bber]

For now here on my setup with win 1903 with driver 425.31 or 441.20, 3D and WMR can't work together, 3D activated and launch WMR can't launch properly and always crash the nvidia driver… For the moment it's WMR or 3D...
Vorpx works fine.

This is not correct. 3D Vision can and does work with WMR, but requires a special setup. Microsoft is too pathetic to fix that fatal crashing bug that I reported twice, so we wound up making our own fix. Any WMR works fine with HelixVision. I use a Dell WMR to test

Great!
Glad to hear it, could you give me the special set up needed to get 3dvision working with Wmr?

I got my reverb second hand for 410€, so I'm pretty happy with it despite tracking can be a real pita in some detective or searching game in my too short room.

As we can leave ss at 100% with Hp reverb, in VR it runs quite the same as the vive pro, but I can't say for helixvision as I can't test performance in helixvision for the moment.

Oh, very cool. I think Reverb is likely to be the best headset for the time being, for seated, driving, HelixVision stuff.

Easiest way to make WMR compatible with 3D Vision will be to run HelixVision if you've already got it. At launch it will set the profile flags necessary to avoid crashing the dwm.exe. Once it's setup the profile, it should work OK from then on.

Always possible this changed again, because it was different on 1803 than on 1903, so if it's not working for you, please give me more details and I'll look into it.


The flag is here, but the real problem is that the exe profile that needs changing has moved around a bit. On 1903, I think we only need to add this to dwm.exe and it works to avoid the 7 crashes then dead video driver.

http://wiki.bo3b.net/index.php?title=Dr ... 0x709d3ad2

[Chtiblue]

Thanks Bo3b I'm trying right now!

[Chtiblue]

So I ran a few tests:
Good news is it doesn't crash no more the nvidia driver.

But as soon I launched Helixvision, Steam VR says that Helixvision doesn't support VR, so I press "Ok", then Helixvision launchs and then WMR portail reboot instantly, Steam Vr exits, so I relaunch Steam VR and it says SteamVR fail "a key component for steamVR isn't working properly error 301" (conflicting software)… In the meantime when I launch the game (Vampyr or Eastshade) in Helixvision, the games is launching ok both on my TV and the Katanga windows but no in my headset (only have the Wmr portail in my headset) because Steam VR refuse to launch (error 301)

I edited the error display message

[Chtiblue]

Strange problem is that Steam Vr says that Helixvision doesn't support VR...
I'm on the last version of Helixvision (non Beta) and last steam VR beta and WMR for steam beta.

When I launch a game in Helixvision before WRM, it tries to launch Steam VR and go to the error 301 message

[Chtiblue]

It seems to still have the conflict between 3D and WMR/steamVR because it's soon I active 3D in upright corner in Helixvision that WMR reboots and SteamVR exit. Wmr reboots ok but then I got the 301 error code each time I 'm trying to launch SteamVR