Which can you see? cross-eyed or parallel?

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Which can you see without glasses?

Cross-eyed
17
57%
Parallel
6
20%
Both
7
23%
 
Total votes: 30

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Which can you see? cross-eyed or parallel?

Post by CarlKenner »

There are two ways to view 3D without glasses by making yourself see double. I can only do parallel (relaxing your eyes and looking through the screen/page).
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Post by yuriythebest »

please add "neither" to poll options. I tried crosseyed and while I'm able to focus my eyes so the image doubles I could never get stereo. Please give more info/link on how to view parallel.
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Post by BlackShark »

I can see crosseyed stereo patterns like you have in stereo3d books. But i've always failed to watch a crosseyed stereo image. It's too big.
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Post by CarlKenner »

I thought I did add a "neither" option, but the forum requires you to press the add option button rather than just typing the last option into the box and pressing submit and I didn't do it right. So that's why the "neither" option is missing. Now it won't let me edit the poll. Sorry.

Stereo pairs have to be made as either crosseyed or parallel, by swapping which eye is on the left and which is on the right. If you view it with the opposite method to the one it was designed for, the depth effect is backwards.

JPS files always look like crosseyed pairs when you view them as a normal jpeg like MTBS3D does.

Parallel viewing means your eyes have to look behind the image, or through the image. Alternatively, you can use a glossy image/screen and look at your reflection. I don't look at a real object behind the page or screen, I just relax and will my eyes to look through the screen as though it wasn't there. But you might need to hold something up behind the screen or page. I actually find it easier than 2D viewing, since you are just relaxing your eyes as much as possible. After staring at a screen close up for too long, my eyes WANT to diverge on a more distant point.

The other option is to hold up your hands to block each eye from seeing the wrong eye's image. But I don't like that technique.

Magic Eye books use parallel viewing, although other similar brand images are often crosseyed. You can find parallel images in lots of places if you search.

Cross-eyed on the other hand requires you to look in front of an image, and my brain won't do that.
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Post by FR3D »

for me the crossview is very easy .
once learned you do not need red/green glasses or other viewers any longer.
there will be absolutely no ghosting or other problems any longer.

the only disadvantage the 3D picture is looking a little bit smaller than than the 2D does.

i think all 3D freaks should learn that ...
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Post by nubie »

I always see the magic eyes as paper cutouts, not pop outs.

I felt the muscles working the third or fourth time the out of screen effects on the Imax Space Shuttle happened.

I think with a little exercising I might be able to see more, now just to go and practice at the 3D Theater :).

@yuriy,

Try with small thumbnails, it is hard to get them lined up, but when you do you have to relax your eyeballs to let them focus, if they can't focus you will only see a blur.

I think that the strain of trying to cross them is making you tense all your eye muscles, and you need to relax some of them to get a proper focus.

If you have a 3D solution right now try setting the separation very high and using it a little (it might hurt a bit, don't keep going if you feel your eyes hurting), then more and practice.

When I was a kid I would cross my eyes a lot though, so I guess it came in handy for 3D :).

I know my brother diverges his eyes, but that is far from the weirdest thing he does :roll: .
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Post by Freke1 »

The first time I tried crosseyed it took 5min, now it takes a split second.
I've never succeded in parallel, because I can't relax my eyes on command (yet).
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Post by LukePC1 »

Freke1 wrote:The first time I tried crosseyed it took 5min, now it takes a split second.
I've never succeded in parallel, because I can't relax my eyes on command (yet).
jep second that.

maybe this helps: http://www.3dexpo.com/crosseye.htm

or with text in German, but the picture is good in conjunction with the link:

Image

And I use crosseyed also for the magic eye (and learned it with it). The result is, that the pictures all go the other way and are not that easy to recognize.
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Post by Tril »

I've tried both. I can easily do parallel in a fraction of second but I have a bit of difficulty adjusting the two pictures on top of each other. One eye has the tendency to go lower/upper than the other. I don't get a lot of depth with this method. I get much more with shutter glasses.

I've tried crosseyed a few times. Each time, I end up doing parallel by mistake and I see the depth reversed. I think I may have succeeded once or twice but I was never able to do it again.
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Post by cybereality »

It took me a long while but I finally figured out the cross-eye method. Its pretty simple once you "get it". I never got the parallel though.
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Post by Likay »

I tried both crosseyed and parallell viewing. It took while before i mastered the crosseyed way but now it's no problem anymore. If pictures are big i just move a slight bit away from the monitor.
I have never succeed the parallell way and i still sometimes try. I think the picture has to be small and the centres of the pictures not exceed the distance of the center of the viewers eyes to manage.
I know it's very hard for most people try viewing crosseyed. Too bad. It's an easy media with no extra gadgets needed.
One more advantage with crosseyed viewing: Cheating! :P You know those "find 5 errors"-pictures where you have to find 5 oddities between two pictures. Align the pictures next to each other and view them crosseyed. You'll see the oddities within a second. :D
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Post by Xerion »

I chose both, but while cross-eye is easy, I have a bit of trouble with parallel and I can only do it with really small images.
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Post by CarlKenner »

I was beginning to think nobody could do both. Well done!
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Post by Welder »

You should be able to edit the poll by editing your first post and scrolling down :)
If not, I could do it for you.

Anyway, I can't do either..
Those books that they used to show us in Elementary school with the hidden images and such, I could NEVER do any of those... I always felt stupid for it because everyone else could see them! But I can't....

I have astigmatism, maybe that has something to do with it??
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Post by nubie »

Likay wrote: I know it's very hard for most people try viewing crosseyed. Too bad. It's an easy media with no extra gadgets needed.
One more advantage with crosseyed viewing: Cheating! :P You know those "find 5 errors"-pictures where you have to find 5 oddities between two pictures. Align the pictures next to each other and view them crosseyed. You'll see the oddities within a second. :D
I am thinking of making directions to view cross-eyed.

Haha, I never thought of doing that on those pictures, finally somebody more cross-eyed than me :) :).

Welder wrote: Anyway, I can't do either..
Those books that they used to show us in Elementary school with the hidden images and such, I could NEVER do any of those... I always felt stupid for it because everyone else could see them! But I can't....

I have astigmatism, maybe that has something to do with it??
Depends how bad, I think astigmatism is where the eyeball isn't round enough, but my pet theory is that it is the muscles that do that, so long hours of TV watching or computer will do it ;), or much crossing of the eyes :P.

I have astigmatism, but it isn't very bad.
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Post by cirk2 »

For me Cross-eyed is very easy.

The bigged pictures I got Cross-eyed was 2 19" Screens with HMD-Output from the IZ3D Driver. But only for 30 sec or so ;)

Paralell I heavend tryed realy for now may I conver an picture for it ;)
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Post by Likay »

I also have some degree of astigmatism but it's very light. I use glasses and clip-ons when seing 3d. I can manage seing crosseye on the 100" screen but i have to be 4 meters away. :shock:
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Post by nubie »

I meant to use the nVidia drivers and screen capture to get a really good set of pictures to try this with, but here is a shot through each lens of a mirrored polarized setup, it should work well enough:

Which one of these is too much for you? (and how big is it on your screen?) Edit: instructions below.

SMALL
Image

MEDIUM
Image

LARGE
Image

BIGGEST
Image


EDIT: INSTRUCTIONS:

Cross your eyes slowly, this requires concentration, also sit back from the screen and pick a small picture to start with.

Try to line up Tony Hawk and make him into one person in the middle. (if one is higher than the other tilt your head slightly to bring them level)

When you can hold him in the middle try to relax your eyeballs while keeping him as one person.

You should see the quarter-pipe behind him as a distinctly different depth as his head.

When you master the small one move up a size and do it again.

It will probably take practicing a few times, and give yourself rest time so your eye muscles can adjust to the new use you are putting them.

(as an aside at nVidia, did anyone else see the Fear interview where he kept saying "the brain adjusts" over and over when he clearly meant eye muscles? Freaking crap.)
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Post by CarlKenner »

Step 1 in your instructions is of course the problem, and something people just can't do.
One of the problems is that success looks exactly the same as failure, until the seeing double images overlap each other and the depth looks completely wrong.

What I would try is wearing anaglyph glasses while trying to do crosseyed or parallel viewing, then you can tell which eye is which, so you know whether you are seperating the images in the right direction or the wrong direction. Doing that, I managed to get a few mm amount of crosseyedness happening, but not enough.
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Post by Likay »

Anyone heard of Freke's "fingertrick"? Sit in 1,5 meters in front of your monitor with the picture maximized. Then put your finger about a quarter of the distance to the monitor (19" appr) (finger closer to you if bigger, finger further away from you if smaller). Slowly align the finger back and forwards until you see the "three window phenomena where the middle one is merged of the left and right view). Concentrate on keeping the alignment without looking at the 3d-picture. After a while you might be able to see the picture and in 3d. I know from experience that this might be impossible for some people just like parallell viewing seems to be impossible for me (last word not said yet).
regarding the pictures: I'm sitting about 60cm from an 19" screen and can do all these picturesizes without problems. I can manage the smalleest one from this distance too but it's harder to align it right away.
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Post by CarlKenner »

With parallel viewing I can see anything less than 6.4cm wide at any distance (including nose touching screen), but more than 6.4cm wide requires me to sit further away. Of course those skateboarder images look inverted when I do that.

The problem I have with the finger trick, is that I can't see the image on the screen anymore because it feels too blurry and out of focus, and as soon as I think about the image instead of my finger, my eyes snap back to diverge onto the screen depth.

I forgot, with parallel viewing there is a foolproof trick... physically pull your eyes further apart by placing your fingers at the far corner of your eyes, pushing down gently and pushing the skin outwards. I don't know how safe that is, so be gentle. It forces your eyes to diverge since you are pulling the muscles directly. I should add that I have floaters in my eyes, and my eyes aren't particularly healthy, so maybe you should look after your eyes better than I do.
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Post by Welder »

I am only able to cross my eyes by looking at my nose. =/

And same, finger doesn't work for me either..
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Post by Freke1 »

There's a few methods for crosseyed viewing. The most failsafe is this:
1. Hold Your hands flat up between You and the monitor edges.
2. Close left eye and move right hand to the left until it blocks right image. Hold it.
3. Close right eye and move left hand to the right until it blocks left image. Hold it.
4. Open both eyes. Your eyes will see 1 crosseye 3D image through the corridor of Your hands.

It's possible to buy glasses that used this corridor technique or You can make them Yourself. It works.
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Post by Welder »

Ok, I tried that.. But it took a whole lot of work for my eyes to focus between my hand instead of just looking through my hand, and when I got them too for a split second, the two joined into one, but was extremely fuzzy, and caused a lot of pain even thought it was a split second :(

I guess I am only able to view 3D on Passive devices :(
(I can't even view shutter glasses for more than a minute, without very tired eyes, and a migraine that lasts for several hours)

Guess it's just the way my mind is programmed :)
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Post by nubie »

CarlKenner wrote:With parallel viewing I can see anything less than 6.4cm wide at any distance (including nose touching screen), but more than 6.4cm wide requires me to sit further away. Of course those skateboarder images look inverted when I do that.

The problem I have with the finger trick, is that I can't see the image on the screen anymore because it feels too blurry and out of focus, and as soon as I think about the image instead of my finger, my eyes snap back to diverge onto the screen depth.

I forgot, with parallel viewing there is a foolproof trick... physically pull your eyes further apart by placing your fingers at the far corner of your eyes, pushing down gently and pushing the skin outwards. I don't know how safe that is, so be gentle. It forces your eyes to diverge since you are pulling the muscles directly. I should add that I have floaters in my eyes, and my eyes aren't particularly healthy, so maybe you should look after your eyes better than I do.
Ah, I haven't tried that.

Have you tried looking at your nose? Or holding an object up to your face?

The problem I have is that crossing your eyes is easy, you do it already when you look at something near to you, and you can physically move things near to you, and thus see close.

With the "parallel viewing" trick you need to focus far in the distance, and I have never been confronted with a parallel Stereo image in a place with an infinity eye focus (and I can't "imagine" it, with crosseyed you can move your finger in and your eyes will cross as you look at your finger.)


I think I practiced this as a child during boring functions, I would look at the speaker around someones head, alternating my focus between the near head and the far speaker. Then with my focus on someones head I would see 2 speakers on the platform.

Maybe I need to get some "magic eyes" and sit outside on a clear day with a view of the far mountains, then maybe try to insert the picture and fool my eyes into staying diverged.

The big problem is that when people put up the magic eyes it is always on a wall, no far object to focus on :(.
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Post by CarlKenner »

You don't have to, or want to, converge at infinity most of the time, "parallel" is just a name, not an accurate description. You want to converge at a point behind the monitor, but how far behind depends on the size of the image, and how far away you are. Looking at your reflection in a glossy picture is often enough.

With a magic eye picture, I often diverge too much. I can see the intended image, or I can see the overshot image, or the doubly overshot image.

I think it might be possible to converge at greater than infinity (pupils looking outwards from each other), so I'm not entirely sure when I am converging at infinity. I wonder how you express greater than infinity numerically. Hmmm.
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Post by Likay »

Woohoo! I now manage parallell to a slight bit also. I took a thick paper and held it between me and the monitor so the eyes are force to see only one image each. It took awhile and i can so far only do very small pictures. Gaining focus is hardest for the moment. I tried on the pics above (even if they're made for x-eyed) and i can do the two smallest pictures parallell but still have a slight problem gaining focus. My fave of parallell/crosseyed is still crosseyed vieweing since it's impossible for me to look at bigger images in parallell.
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Post by fReAq »

Both of those methods make me feel a bit queasy afterward, although parallel is the most comfortable. Parallel viewing also makes the scene seem bigger.
It feels strange making your eyes move further apart than naturally possible!
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Post by Ezzelin »

Both, and I've been able to do both as long as I remember, though I think I might have done parallel as a little kid first. Also, I can diverge my eyes much more when doing cross-eyed, but I think that's normal, isn't it? Is there any driver that can display stereo 3d on one monitor with two side by side cross-eyed images? That would be nice.
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Post by LukePC1 »

Ezzelin wrote:Both, and I've been able to do both as long as I remember, though I think I might have done parallel as a little kid first. Also, I can diverge my eyes much more when doing cross-eyed, but I think that's normal, isn't it? Is there any driver that can display stereo 3d on one monitor with two side by side cross-eyed images? That would be nice.
The game Le Cauchemor (wrong spelling :-() has it natively. It is still in develpment, but there is a big thread about it and you can view it crosseyed on every screen. Unfortunatly that looks/looked a little bad. But there has been some improvement since I tried it last.

Well I'd like such a driver, too, but I think it's not that good for moving scenes and long time usage. The space is just too limited :-(
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Post by BlackShark »

i manage to crosseye on the 3rd picture (large) but it's my limit. I barely get my focus on it but once i get focused on it i manage to keep my focus so i can view the image.
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Post by Ezzelin »

LukePC1 wrote: Well I'd like such a driver, too, but I think it's not that good for moving scenes and long time usage. The space is just too limited :-(
I have a front projector with a 100" screen, so this wouldn't be an issue. I know there was a mod for Quake 3 that did this as well, but I'm really curious if it could be done more generally. If iZ3d put it in as a free demo mode for their driver, it could show people without stereo 3d hardware what stereo 3d looks like in a much more favorable light compared to, say, red and blue glasses.
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Re: Which can you see? cross-eyed or parallel?

Post by Bombyx »

Sorry for the bump, but I am new to this forum. :oops:

I can see both. However, I do not know if it is related to my myopia, but parallel viewing has always been easier for me. I can see a parallel pair in a second (just by relaxing my eyes) and the 3D merging is very comfortable to hold. Cross-eyed viewing requires a little more effort. Depending of the picture (size, contrast, etc.) I use either the finger method or the hand method (see Freke1's post). The hand method takes longer but always works, and it makes the 3D merging easier to hold. Looking at nubie's pictures, I can see parallel up to Large and cross-eyed up to Biggest on my 86dpi display. Because of the pupillary distance, parallel viewing has a lower size limit than cross-eyed viewing.
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Re: Which can you see? cross-eyed or parallel?

Post by snarfbot »

i can cross my eyes easily, parallel is impossible though, i understand the concept but i cant seem to make them move like that.

maybe its a genetic thing, like some people are able to contort their tongue while others cant.
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Re: Which can you see? cross-eyed or parallel?

Post by WheatstoneHolmes »

I can only do cross-eyed.

I found a handy Firefox plug-in that allows you to view cross-eye images in parallel format and parallel images in parallel format:
http://www.billh.demon.co.uk/stereo/viewdouble.html
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