The iZ3D Driver + Shutter Glasses Thread

[Hornet]

From my sight then this piece of software is not 3D driver

[Zeblade]

For ME the E-D in vista makes alot of games crash.

[Tril]

There's a setting that can be changed in Vista that may help (but it's not enough for me). In Vista, every window content is kept in memory and they are drawn on the desktop from this memory. This may be detrimental to shutter glasses mode. It can be deactivated. Here's how to disable it :

Press Windows key+Pause key. Press Advanced system settings. Press Settings under Performance. Uncheck "Enable desktop composition".

[chrisjarram]

Software problems indeed, due to glitches in the driver. There is no reason why they can't be easily fixed. Many drivers in the past have done exactly that.

I believe we are talking about the hardware side - getting glasses to flicker in sync to what will be a proper page flipped display regardless of the performance of the card or the FPS.

This is a Beta driver my friend. Think of it as a "proof of concept". Perhaps not useful, but it shows great promise. In the final releases after the bugs are fixed, it will be what we are looking for.

Currently it's a free trial Beta. No need to get upset about it

Nor is there any need to patronise I am not 'getting upset about it'.. it is a beta, not an alpha (i.e. should be 'feature complete', but not debugged thouroughly - there is a difference), and these things should have been previously considered before release, thats all. I speak for a lot of people and this is needed in order to get things moving - We are all here to try and fix this, and I was trying to explain to you there are issues you have overlooked, simple as

[chrisjarram]

So it seems to be a driver issue.

Hopefully, this will be a non-issue now that it has been reported and they are aware of it

This is exactly the point RAGEdemon, they have been aware of this for the last couple of months at least - it has not only just been reported. It would seem little has been done to address the problem however- perhaps because it is more than just a 'non-issue'... BlackQ how about clearing this up?

I think someone needs to send BlackQ a pair of shutter glasses for his birthday present

TBH I think we'd all be mortified in the CTO of a 3d-driver company didn't already own some!

[RAGEdemon]

Apologies if I sounded patronizing. It was not my intention.

We are all here as friends

My point is, and please don't take this the wrong way - there is every chance that the driver issue can be fixed since older drivers have never had problems with that aspect.

On the other hand, there is little chance that the DDC issue can be fixed in software from what I have heard. Keeping that in mind, I am mostly concerned about the signal generation and how to fix this side of things

-- Shahzad.

[chrisjarram]

Apologies if I sounded patronizing. It was not my intention.

We are all here as friends

My point is, and please don't take this the wrong way - there is every chance that the driver issue can be fixed since older drivers have never had problems with that aspect.

On the other hand, there is little chance that the DDC issue can be fixed in software from what I have heard. Keeping that in mind, I am mostly concerned about the signal generation and how to fix this side of things

-- Shahzad.

No worries.

The older drivers, from what I understand, have been developed either in collaboration with nVidia or by nVidia themselves,which is the problem here - iz3D state they simply do not have the low level access to be able to do this. The thing is, they have been saying this for months so what is needed to be able to push this forward? Its all sounding a little tired now - The hardware is indeed practically a non-issue as you can switch on vertical sync anyway, but without the software fix nothing is likely to work.

As I say, at least iz3D have been willing to try and introduce frame markers to resolve this issue, so I give them credit for that - but I'm just surprised the actual (more obvious) solution of getting an existing nVidia 7 series card (running nVidia drivers), comparing the outputs in page-flipped mode and seeking to replicate that by whatever means possible don't seem to have been addressed.

Absolute best case scenario afa I'm concerned - have iz3d sit down with a set of eDimensionals (perhaps the most common shutter glasses out there at this time) and get the bloody thing working

[RAGEdemon]

I was not aware that this thing had been dragging on for a while.

I remember a company called DDD (I forget what the letters stand for) was selling using a "driver per game" model. Even their driver didn't have the issue and I don't think they worked closely with nVidia.

Perhaps, all that is needed is a kind email to nVidia driver dev team to ask them how to do it... might not yield a result however, seeing that nVidia's driver is being poised to compete directly with iZ3D.

But then, iZ3D driver works on ATi cards too, doesn't it? Maybe a nice email to AMD might be an idea. I'm sure they will be only too glad to help nVidia's competition, especially in a field where they don't have a product

[shonofear]

wow, you guys know your $hit.
But Im having tryin to understand all the DDC, block waves, etc etc

The IR Emitter doesn't work. The DDC signal shows 5V constant instead of a square wave averaging ~ 2.5V. Might you be able to confirm?

could you plz explain it in Laymen terms....
I'm genuinely interested in whats happening in theory with shutters behind the scenes
but havin trouble picturing it in my head

cheers well knowledgeable peoples

[RAGEdemon]

It is quite simple, friend.

To synchronize the shutters to the display, the videocard outputs a square signal on pin 12 of the VGA output or pin 7 of the DVI output. This pin is usually used to communicate DDC data between the display device and the video card but it is "hijacked" by Stereo3D drivers.

When the frame for one eye is being drawn, the card outputs a high (+5v), and when the frame for the other eye is being drawn, it outputs a low (0v) something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/e ... _T.svg.png

A small microcontroller in either the shutter glasses emitter or dongle detects this signal and uses it to "drive" the shutters. It shuts one shutter when it gets a high signal while opening the other, and then vise versa when the low signal is received.

This means that the glasses are always in sync with the display. But if there is no signal, then shutter glasses don't work, as is currently the case with the beta iZ3D driver, so we are trying to make our own, as well as fixing some synchronization glitches on the actual display


-- Shahzad.

[shonofear]

ok gottcha now, cheers.
in mean time like others I will just use Interlaced option,
but a few games dont load up though (BF2)
and i still got old NV stereo for backup

[InCytE]

Got to ask. Sorry not an electronics type here, but always willing to learn.What does DCC stand for?

Also I have to say that this is a free trial BETA. Give iZ3D a break. Who here could do better? Did you pay them money? I paid nVidia and they dumped me like a cheap one night stand (usually that doesn’t bother me, but this time it did). And it was even worst (proper folk don’t use the kind of language needed here with their outdoor voice) when it comes to E-D. I've been 3Ding for about seven years and believe it or not it's getting easier and better. Although more expensive.

[RAGEdemon]

DDC = Display Data Channel
DCC = Direct Client to Client connection

I get both terms mixed up more often than not too as I use DCC on mIRC quite a bit at work

[genetic]

Well, seeing as Nvidia actually went the extra mile to lock out our preexisting support in their drivers, how on earth can anyone be angry at IZ3D for their effort?

Ahem, thank you IZ3D for your hard work. We know you didn’t have to do this and we are glad that you did.

Well, maybe it is easier for me to take because as a Z800 user, I was more or less expecting to be out of luck with the new drivers anyway.

On that note,

RAGEdemon, if you still have your Z800 on hand can you give it a test run for me? Also on that, do I need to uninstall my Nvidia stereo drivers first? That would be unfortunate given the circumstances.

[Borg_Rootan]

It is quite simple, friend.

To synchronize the shutters to the display, the videocard outputs a square signal on pin 12 of the VGA output or pin 7 of the DVI output. This pin is usually used to communicate DDC data between the display device and the video card but it is "hijacked" by Stereo3D drivers.

When the frame for one eye is being drawn, the card outputs a high (+5v), and when the frame for the other eye is being drawn, it outputs a low (0v) something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/e ... _T.svg.png

-- Shahzad.

Problem is not with Hi/low level signal for Odd/even frames. Simple solution is put counter (79HCT93) on vertical synchronization pin. Problem is with real R/L sequence what iZ3D driver produce. It may be L-R-L-R-R-L-R-L-L-R-L-R-L-L-R-L-R etc. Without direct L/R signal from driver to glasses this doesn't work. nVidia produce strictly L-R-L-R-L-R sequence and this may be problem. What if DDC signal is HW controled with actual L/R buffer sending to RAMDAC information?

[chrisjarram]

Got to ask. Sorry not an electronics type here, but always willing to learn.What does DCC stand for?

Also I have to say that this is a free trial BETA. Give iZ3D a break. Who here could do better? Did you pay them money? I paid nVidia and they dumped me like a cheap one night stand (usually that doesn’t bother me, but this time it did). And it was even worst (proper folk don’t use the kind of language needed here with their outdoor voice) when it comes to E-D. I've been 3Ding for about seven years and believe it or not it's getting easier and better. Although more expensive.

With respect, I wish people would stop banging on about this being a 'beta'... a beta is supposed to be 'feature complete', if not it should be deemed an alpha This conversation regarding the shutters has been going on with iz3d a long time (long before the release of this driver)... we are trying to help iz3d here, is that not giving them a break? It is not paying them money, but it is doing work for them.. I think this deserves credit in its own right. Personally I have invested my own time in discussions and research for marker formats, so in terms of who could do better, if you are reading this thread you will note we are trying to use our combined knowledge to give iz3d the info they need, so between us we are bettering this driver. The actual driver will not be free either, it is $50-$100 per output so is important it is working properly for this reason. Incidentally on that note though, what did you pay nVidia for? I've always had their 3d shutter drivers for free, unlike iz3d who are going to be charging...
People saying iz3d didnt 'have to do this' (and I'm guessing these are those lucky individuals who have other outputs working so it isnt that important to anyway), of course they didnt - but they are obviousy going to make a load of money out of it if they do - same reason any company does anything.

Anyway, you only need to look at how quickly this topic has rocketed to the top of the hot topics list (where the visits are nearly double that of the next hottest topic) to see just how eager everyone is to see a solution to this issue - if iz3d can get it sorted the rewards will doubtless speak for themselves...

[chrisjarram]

It is quite simple, friend.

To synchronize the shutters to the display, the videocard outputs a square signal on pin 12 of the VGA output or pin 7 of the DVI output. This pin is usually used to communicate DDC data between the display device and the video card but it is "hijacked" by Stereo3D drivers.

When the frame for one eye is being drawn, the card outputs a high (+5v), and when the frame for the other eye is being drawn, it outputs a low (0v) something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/e ... _T.svg.png

-- Shahzad.

Problem is not with Hi/low level signal for Odd/even frames. Simple solution is put counter (79HCT93) on vertical synchronization pin. Problem is with real R/L sequence what iZ3D driver produce. It may be L-R-L-R-R-L-R-L-L-R-L-R-L-L-R-L-R etc. Without direct L/R signal from driver to glasses this doesn't work. nVidia produce strictly L-R-L-R-L-R sequence and this may be problem. What if DDC signal is HW controled with actual L/R buffer sending to RAMDAC information?

This is what their marked shutter output is for (and why I've requested they at least also try and support a standard like Stereographics WLC). However, this is not desirable as it requires extra hardware, but at least it works around the problem and provides a solution for it.
In terms of the sequence, this was the big deal when iz3d were making their simple-shutter output. If this cannot be guaranteed L-R-L-R-L-R then what is the point? (hint, don't bring up the 'beta driver' bit again cos iz3d were aware of this long before the release ).
nVidia presumably use h/w page flipping of some sort, populate 2 image buffers (one for left, one for right) and then just flip between them for each eye, only re-populating when new frames are available from the game's frame output. This guarantees the monitor output at least is L-R-L-R-L-R and takes away entirely the dependency on the frame rate.
I raised the issue earlier in this thread that if iz3d have a room full of engineers there MUST be someone there who can monitor what nVidia's driver is doing and replicate the low level calls. If the frame ordering could be sorted out, even without the DDC code, then the community can pick up on it and solve the DDC problem - voila, we have eDimensional glasses working with the iz3d driver!

[chrisjarram]

ok gottcha now, cheers.
in mean time like others I will just use Interlaced option,
but a few games dont load up though (BF2)
and i still got old NV stereo for backup

Interlaced option doesnt work with the eDims afaik.

[LukePC1]

It is quite simple, friend.

To synchronize the shutters to the display, the videocard outputs a square signal on pin 12 of the VGA output or pin 7 of the DVI output. This pin is usually used to communicate DDC data between the display device and the video card but it is "hijacked" by Stereo3D drivers.

When the frame for one eye is being drawn, the card outputs a high (+5v), and when the frame for the other eye is being drawn, it outputs a low (0v) something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/e ... _T.svg.png

-- Shahzad.

Problem is not with Hi/low level signal for Odd/even frames. Simple solution is put counter (79HCT93) on vertical synchronization pin. Problem is with real R/L sequence what iZ3D driver produce. It may be L-R-L-R-R-L-R-L-L-R-L-R-L-L-R-L-R etc. Without direct L/R signal from driver to glasses this doesn't work. nVidia produce strictly L-R-L-R-L-R sequence and this may be problem. What if DDC signal is HW controled with actual L/R buffer sending to RAMDAC information?

I think that is the problem, too.
And I think it was said before! I remember something like:
'All we can do is ordering the driver (normal GPU driver) to render L and R in alternating order.'
This would work, if the GPU is either VERY VERY fast or the game is relativly old or low resolution or low detail.
It means that you will have to garantee, that your GPU can output at least that much FPS as your screen has. For a 85hz DLP projector you'd need 85hz in 2D. I think there are 2D gamers who want similar FPS. Maybe they are fine with 60FPS, but 85 to 100 fps isn't that much away then, if you tweak a little...

I read on the other topic about black and white line or square at the bottom. I think it's a good Idea!
The line is detected by some devices automatically and the square could be used by a phototransistor (is that the name?). It would switch the glasses each time a new frame would actually be DISPLAYED! It might also work for LCD, because it has the same delay as the screen...

[LukePC1]

ok gottcha now, cheers.
in mean time like others I will just use Interlaced option,
but a few games dont load up though (BF2)
and i still got old NV stereo for backup

Interlaced option doesnt work with the eDims afaik.

I thought even their own driver was using interlaced to work on AMD chips? And the ED.exe should create the stuff needed to sync/flicker...

And I think there is already a lot of new stuff working:
- interlaced
- checkerboard (heard no complains, but at least one positive post about it)
- VR920 if VR920 driver is installed, so not on 64bit OS

Only problem seems to be shutter and Planar. But maybe the config for planar was not that great.

So could we concentrate on getting Shutters to work and not blame everyone else?

[RAGEdemon]

@genetic

Sorry mate, I returned my Z800 a while back because of screen problems. I meant to get another one as a replacement but then nVidia killed the stereo driver

If it works with the iZ3D driver, I do plan to get one again

-- Shahzad.

[Borg_Rootan]

It is quite simple, friend.

This is what their marked shutter output is for (and why I've requested they at least also try and support a standard like Stereographics WLC). However, this is not desirable as it requires extra hardware, but at least it works around the problem and provides a solution for it.
In terms of the sequence, this was the big deal when iz3d were making their simple-shutter output. If this cannot be guaranteed L-R-L-R-L-R then what is the point? (hint, don't bring up the 'beta driver' bit again cos iz3d were aware of this long before the release ).
nVidia presumably use h/w page flipping of some sort, populate 2 image buffers (one for left, one for right) and then just flip between them for each eye, only re-populating when new frames are available from the game's frame output. This guarantees the monitor output at least is L-R-L-R-L-R and takes away entirely the dependency on the frame rate.
I raised the issue earlier in this thread that if iz3d have a room full of engineers there MUST be someone there who can monitor what nVidia's driver is doing and replicate the low level calls. If the frame ordering could be sorted out, even without the DDC code, then the community can pick up on it and solve the DDC problem - voila, we have eDimensional glasses working with the iz3d driver!

1) DDC signal works in market mode now?
2) Simple shuter can quratee strictly L-R-L-R output from card? I hope to this in full release, but it looks imposible (for non brutal Hi-end Graphic cards).
3) Iz3D hasn't buffer for each eye only scene rendering is sequential (L/R). This is cause for random L/R output on low end hardware (I mean..)

[VadersApp]

@Luke
you said VR920 is working. I tried it on my xp 32 8800GTX computer with driver installed. All i have got was the possibilty to change seperation, but it seperated the two displays the same amount, so there was no S3d.

[chrisjarram]

So could we concentrate on getting Shutters to work and not blame everyone else?

Well said that man!

[stepsbarto]

Hi all,

I just want to add my experience with the new driver :
I'm quite happy with it because it works with shutter glasses in interlaced
mode (with lineblanker). many games that dont work with nvidias driver work great
with iz3d ...very nice ... (3d adventures mostly...)
The iz3d driver is really much better than nvidias one ... !!

For now only with CRT ... in hires ...
It would be great if it would work in real pageflip mode ....

With shutter I have only flickering image ...I wonder if this could be solved
with additional hardware ....as mentioned above.

@chrisjarram .....you said something about stereographics emitter/controller ..
I've found some "stereo enabler" ...could this work with "marked shutter" .. as a controller ??

http://reald-corporate.com/scientific/stereoenabler.asp

" The StereoEnabler is an intelligent pass-through VGA connector for the
monitor and outputs the stereo sync signal to an infrared emitter or
ZScreen controller via a 3-pin mini-DIN plug. The sync signal is
transmitted to the StereoEnabler by coding the bottom raster line of the
video signal (blue-line code) and the intelligent controller generates the
pulse signal from this video signal. Additional power required by the
emitter is achieved by plugging in the PS/2 connector on the
StereoEnabler into the keyboard PS/2 connector on the PC. The emitter or
controller interprets the sync signal to shutter the eyewear or ZScreen to
separate the left and right eye images, giving the user the ability to view
in stereo...."


what do you think ?

regards

steps

[gozne]

Hi everyone!

I read the whole thread and humbly and honestly didn't understand a word of what you are talking about.

I installed the new drivers and tried shutter, S3Dshutter and interlaced options, but none worked for me. It's probably my fault, since I'm new in the forums and my knowledge in really basic. I can't help in anything to the development of the driver though, and as many of the people in the forum I only want to try to selfishly make it work for me. :/

Since there's a lot of people in the same situation as myself, maybe it would be interesting to open a new thread with Laymen terms where we can speak without bothering your awesome help to iz3d. (don't get me wrong, I mean it).

thanks everyone, and keep going!

[LukePC1]

@Luke
you said VR920 is working. I tried it on my xp 32 8800GTX computer with driver installed. All i have got was the possibilty to change seperation, but it seperated the two displays the same amount, so there was no S3d.

I thought it just wouldn't run with 64bit... It seems I mixed up some of the stuff here... Well it was realy a lot to read for just half a day or so

In that case it looks not so good, but at shifting the images is a good first step. At least it's not flickering and swapping images like crazy, is it?

I think we'll have to wait for next beta and continue to test. Good job all of you (except me, who hasn't even installed the driever jet ).

@ gozne: I think it will need some work and maybe some (small?) hardware solution to shutter right.
I don't own ED glasses, but in theory they SHOULD work with interlaced driver

[Mercy Yamada]

@genetic
@RAGEdemon

My Z800 works with the iZ3D driver.
I am impressed!!

[VadersApp]

No there was no flickering in VR920 mode. Tried all 3 modes left,right an cant remember the 3 option, no S3D only shifted images. Tried it with Life for Speed and if i gave more seperation the cockpit shifted right out of the screen while the background stayed almost there. So there is hope of a fast delivered version 1.09a

[chrisjarram]

Hi,

That does look interesting, though I'm not sure how the compatibility would be with more common products like eDIm - addtional hardware may still be needed. _However_, I think if this can generate the sync signal (as a rise / fall for each eye) according to a blue line signal on the bottom row of (for example) each image and just output that at a DDC code via a standard 3-pin sync cable it may well be a much more ideal solution than the WLC (White Line Code) I have already discussed with iz3d. WLC would only be supported via more expensive Stereographics emitters, but this cheaper solution may allow us to work with many different shutter glasses (which can take this standard 3 pin DDC input).

This would solve both the glasses signal generation and the frame ordering problem.

Could a few others please look at this and offer input? What do you think?

Vadim, could you possibly investiage this too? This product is only $89 so is affordable to most if you could support the Blue line code with your driver, and it may be a very good intermediate solution to the problem.

Thanks for your input, steps!

Hi all,

I just want to add my experience with the new driver :
I'm quite happy with it because it works with shutter glasses in interlaced
mode (with lineblanker). many games that dont work with nvidias driver work great
with iz3d ...very nice ... (3d adventures mostly...)
The iz3d driver is really much better than nvidias one ... !!

For now only with CRT ... in hires ...
It would be great if it would work in real pageflip mode ....

With shutter I have only flickering image ...I wonder if this could be solved
with additional hardware ....as mentioned above.

@chrisjarram .....you said something about stereographics emitter/controller ..
I've found some "stereo enabler" ...could this work with "marked shutter" .. as a controller ??

http://reald-corporate.com/scientific/stereoenabler.asp

" The StereoEnabler is an intelligent pass-through VGA connector for the
monitor and outputs the stereo sync signal to an infrared emitter or
ZScreen controller via a 3-pin mini-DIN plug. The sync signal is
transmitted to the StereoEnabler by coding the bottom raster line of the
video signal (blue-line code) and the intelligent controller generates the
pulse signal from this video signal. Additional power required by the
emitter is achieved by plugging in the PS/2 connector on the
StereoEnabler into the keyboard PS/2 connector on the PC. The emitter or
controller interprets the sync signal to shutter the eyewear or ZScreen to
separate the left and right eye images, giving the user the ability to view
in stereo...."


what do you think ?

regards

steps

[LukePC1]

Hi,

That does look interesting, though I'm not sure how the compatibility would be with more common products like eDIm - addtional hardware may still be needed. _However_, I think if this can generate the sync signal (as a rise / fall for each eye) according to a blue line signal on the bottom row of (for example) each image and just output that at a DDC code via a standard 3-pin sync cable it may well be a much more ideal solution than the WLC (White Line Code) I have already discussed with iz3d. WLC would only be supported via more expensive Stereographics emitters, but this cheaper solution may allow us to work with many different shutter glasses (which can take this standard 3 pin DDC input).

This would solve both the glasses signal generation and the frame ordering problem.

Could a few others please look at this and offer input? What do you think?

Vadim, could you possibly investiage this too? This product is only $89 so is affordable to most if you could support the Blue line code with your driver, and it may be a very good intermediate solution to the problem.

Thanks for your input, steps!

Hi all,

I just want to add my experience with the new driver :
I'm quite happy with it because it works with shutter glasses in interlaced
mode (with lineblanker). many games that dont work with nvidias driver work great
with iz3d ...very nice ... (3d adventures mostly...)
The iz3d driver is really much better than nvidias one ... !!

For now only with CRT ... in hires ...
It would be great if it would work in real pageflip mode ....

With shutter I have only flickering image ...I wonder if this could be solved
with additional hardware ....as mentioned above.

@chrisjarram .....you said something about stereographics emitter/controller ..
I've found some "stereo enabler" ...could this work with "marked shutter" .. as a controller ??

http://reald-corporate.com/scientific/stereoenabler.asp

" The StereoEnabler is an intelligent pass-through VGA connector for the
monitor and outputs the stereo sync signal to an infrared emitter or
ZScreen controller via a 3-pin mini-DIN plug. The sync signal is
transmitted to the StereoEnabler by coding the bottom raster line of the
video signal (blue-line code) and the intelligent controller generates the
pulse signal from this video signal. Additional power required by the
emitter is achieved by plugging in the PS/2 connector on the
StereoEnabler into the keyboard PS/2 connector on the PC. The emitter or
controller interprets the sync signal to shutter the eyewear or ZScreen to
separate the left and right eye images, giving the user the ability to view
in stereo...."


what do you think ?

regards

steps

You know, that you still need a high power GPU to run it then with little flickering?
This device would only create the signal, so if the output is 50FPS (2D) then it would be about 25Hz for each eye, since the signal is slower than the actual frame rate. But if you have highend GPU compared to the game then you should be able to get a reasonable refresh rate.
But maybe interlaced with a higher resolution would do the trick , too

summery:
FPS = refesh rate in Hz
before with NV driver: FPS maybe half of refresh rate

[genetic]

@genetic
@RAGEdemon

My Z800 works with the iZ3D driver.
I am impressed!!

This is great news!!

thank you for finding that out.

did you have to uninstall the Nvidia stereo drivers or can you just deactivate 3D in the control panal?

how long have you been in Japan?

[chrisjarram]

Hi,

That does look interesting, though I'm not sure how the compatibility would be with more common products like eDIm - addtional hardware may still be needed. _However_, I think if this can generate the sync signal (as a rise / fall for each eye) according to a blue line signal on the bottom row of (for example) each image and just output that at a DDC code via a standard 3-pin sync cable it may well be a much more ideal solution than the WLC (White Line Code) I have already discussed with iz3d. WLC would only be supported via more expensive Stereographics emitters, but this cheaper solution may allow us to work with many different shutter glasses (which can take this standard 3 pin DDC input).

This would solve both the glasses signal generation and the frame ordering problem.

Could a few others please look at this and offer input? What do you think?

Vadim, could you possibly investiage this too? This product is only $89 so is affordable to most if you could support the Blue line code with your driver, and it may be a very good intermediate solution to the problem.

Thanks for your input, steps!

Hi all,

I just want to add my experience with the new driver :
I'm quite happy with it because it works with shutter glasses in interlaced
mode (with lineblanker). many games that dont work with nvidias driver work great
with iz3d ...very nice ... (3d adventures mostly...)
The iz3d driver is really much better than nvidias one ... !!

For now only with CRT ... in hires ...
It would be great if it would work in real pageflip mode ....

With shutter I have only flickering image ...I wonder if this could be solved
with additional hardware ....as mentioned above.

@chrisjarram .....you said something about stereographics emitter/controller ..
I've found some "stereo enabler" ...could this work with "marked shutter" .. as a controller ??

http://reald-corporate.com/scientific/stereoenabler.asp

" The StereoEnabler is an intelligent pass-through VGA connector for the
monitor and outputs the stereo sync signal to an infrared emitter or
ZScreen controller via a 3-pin mini-DIN plug. The sync signal is
transmitted to the StereoEnabler by coding the bottom raster line of the
video signal (blue-line code) and the intelligent controller generates the
pulse signal from this video signal. Additional power required by the
emitter is achieved by plugging in the PS/2 connector on the
StereoEnabler into the keyboard PS/2 connector on the PC. The emitter or
controller interprets the sync signal to shutter the eyewear or ZScreen to
separate the left and right eye images, giving the user the ability to view
in stereo...."


what do you think ?

regards

steps

You know, that you still need a high power GPU to run it then with little flickering?
This device would only create the signal, so if the output is 50FPS (2D) then it would be about 25Hz for each eye, since the signal is slower than the actual frame rate. But if you have highend GPU compared to the game then you should be able to get a reasonable refresh rate.
But maybe interlaced with a higher resolution would do the trick , too

summery:
FPS = refesh rate in Hz
before with NV driver: FPS maybe half of refresh rate

Hi, yes, I do know that
Interlaced = imo not an option for projector setups, especially higher end ones, good for testing maybe but I'm not about to ditch my 7900 for a 9800gx2 in interlaced mode. Yes, obviously you'd want a fast machine (not just GPU) for this BLC solution too - this is why I suggested it is only an intermediate option (for those that are lucky enough to have the power), but ultimately we need dual buffer page-flipping, simple as. I think what you are saying though (and the fact this thread has hit 1300 views and shot to the top of the hottest topics in the space of 2 days) is enough to show iz3d just how important (and lucrative from a profit standpoint) fixing this problem is. The BLC is something they can do very easily pending a full h/w pageflipping solution, thats about where we are at the moment.

But yeah, you'd want 85fps minimum to be able to keep things barable on the eyes, not really ideal. Perhaps then it is better to just focus on the HW pageflip right from the start so people dont waste money on hardware they dont need (or doesnt give satisfactory results); again though this raises the rather surprising point that iz3d havent even yet at least been able to guarantee LRLRLRLRLR output with no ordering loss. This was talked about long before the release of this 'beta' software so thats not really a good reason it hasnt been checked yet. Guys, lets fix this and change the world!

[The_Doctor]

I set the resolution to 800*600 in GTR2, turned off all the details, everything on low, set the refresh to 60HZ and it's perfect stereo with shutterglasses in the game. If the fps go under 30 (60Hz/2) it turns to garbage, but over 30 and it is perfect (besides the headache inflicting 30Hz refresh of course).

[chrisjarram]

I set the resolution to 800*600 in GTR2, turned off all the details, everything on low, set the refresh to 60HZ and it's perfect stereo with shutterglasses in the game. If the fps go under 30 (60Hz/2) it turns to garbage, but over 30 and it is perfect (besides the headache inflicting 30Hz refresh of course).

Thats no surprise, we know if your card can keep up then the stereo can potentially work. 60hz though? yeuch tbh though I didnt really upgrade my graphics card in anticpiation of this new driver to play GTR2 at SVGA resolution with all details on low!

[decoril]

Hi all; i too have tryed with the VR920 but i´m getting a different problem; the image in the left screen is displaying the two perspectives at the same time the left and the right verticalli streched one in the upper half of the screen and the other in the lower half, the right screen displays the correct image for the right.

Also have tried the two shutter modes on the VR920 because there is no reason for shtter to not work in the VR920 like it worked ever with the nvidia driver but when i manually select left or ricght first stereo mode the image on the VR freezes on the same frame for the two screens in the visor but it still changes and continue running on the normal monitor,,
What a mess.. u supose i must report all this "bugs" on the IZ3D forums for they to be revised..

[LukePC1]

I set the resolution to 800*600 in GTR2, turned off all the details, everything on low, set the refresh to 60HZ and it's perfect stereo with shutterglasses in the game. If the fps go under 30 (60Hz/2) it turns to garbage, but over 30 and it is perfect (besides the headache inflicting 30Hz refresh of course).

that is with GTX280, right?
I'd expect something better from that card (if it is not your PC slowing it down )

Well I think with these Hardware solution you should be able to get less flicker with quiet scenes and no "garbage" when frames drop...

I think the backbuffer stuff is NV's area and it needs access to the hardware. But I think it was said or at least hinted at before the release...
--> try to ask ATI for their backbuffer support

[The_Doctor]

It is with a 7900GTX, the 280 is gone, too much heath. But yes, as long as the card can keep more than your refresh the stereo works and stays in sync. Just testing, of coure it can't be used at 30 HZ.

[chrisjarram]

I set the resolution to 800*600 in GTR2, turned off all the details, everything on low, set the refresh to 60HZ and it's perfect stereo with shutterglasses in the game. If the fps go under 30 (60Hz/2) it turns to garbage, but over 30 and it is perfect (besides the headache inflicting 30Hz refresh of course).

that is with GTX280, right?
I'd expect something better from that card (if it is not your PC slowing it down )

Well I think with these Hardware solution you should be able to get less flicker with quiet scenes and no "garbage" when frames drop...

I think the backbuffer stuff is NV's area and it needs access to the hardware. But I think it was said or at least hinted at before the release...
--> try to ask ATI for their backbuffer support

Exactly, iz3d need to fix this backbuffer support (on nvidia cards) or imo shutters are pretty much a no-go. I'd have thought it should be a priority tbh when you look at the number of views on this thread (most ever in such a short time on mtbs?)

[LukePC1]

It is with a 7900GTX, the 280 is gone, too much heath. But yes, as long as the card can keep more than your refresh the stereo works and stays in sync. Just testing, of coure it can't be used at 30 HZ.

oh sorry man...
Maybe you have more luck with the next one

If that results above were with gf7, then it's ok. So its easy to get a good FPS with recent hardware and then you have at least a good fram rate when the hardware works

I only hope it CAN be fixed, because they might have no access to the hardware/backbuffer as a 3rd party. When you make the game or the hardware driver it's much more easy!