Who backed The STEM System ??

Post by **mickman** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:14 am

Just wondering who else has jumped in & backed the Stem System ?

I notice the early bird KickStarter tiers are going fast.... real fast. ( 570 Backers in one hour ! = $145,000 )
Sixense should have a competition ... predict the time within half an hour of this being funded & you get two free sensors...

Promo video:
There's no mention in the promo video regarding the distance of operation. .. Is there ? only angle,line of sight + low latency... yes ?
How's Carmac , Jan, Cyber Bruce & did I see "Neal Stephenson " (Snow Crash ) in there too..

I'd also be interested if I can use the Razer Hydra in conjunction with this system... e.g.. Two players one using Stem the other Razer.

Post by **druidsbane** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:25 am

I would like to know if you can use two of them in the same area and what the range is. I ordered two. The other thing I'd like is a comparison with the PrioVR (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yei ... eas-moving) which despite the lack of absolute positioning seems to be the better deal overall (I backed two of those as well).

Also, it would be nice to know how the Oculus absolute positioning will work to make a decision on which of these two projects is more useful, depending on the final latency and other numbers I might cancel one or the other.

Post by **virror** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:26 am

It says range is 8 feet (16 feet diameter).

"Extended range. Optimized performance from the desktop to the living room, with an 8-foot radius (16-foot diameter) range from the Base."

Post by **hast** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:29 am

I went for the 5 pack early bird.

Regarding distance I think the only claim is "living room size" tracking in the feature description. Not sure what that actually means, but it seems like using it with a ODT or even walking around a small area shouldn't be a problem.

I found it very encouraging that the Tactical Haptics people seems involved. If they can make their haptical feedback devices compatible with the STEM then that seems like a good indicator that we can have a healthy ecosystem around the system in the future. (Eg, people making guns, swords and similar items.)

Post by **mickman** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:32 am

hhmm.... 8ft... In real world dimensions, that's 2.4 meters, yes ?

i'm guessing at 2.4 m things would be getting pretty bad.... probably a more realistic range would be approx. 1.5m

Post by **virror** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:39 am

Nice image : p
I think 1,5m is good enough for PC gaming though, can probably push it closer to 2m without to many issues (i hope) : )

Post by **mickman** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:41 am

@ Druidbane: you ordered 2 sets ! .. nice one.

I ordered a single set with 5 sensors. I originally ordered the early-bird 3 sensor pack... but had second thoughts.

Post by **virror** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:52 am

druidsbane: I guess in the end the exact specs don't really matter compared to the software support. And my guess is that the STEM system will have a better chance for that since it will be compatible with the Hydra and also many devs are used to working with the API (i assume the new API will be similar).

Post by **druidsbane** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:01 am

Another thing I'd like is an OpenSource SDK. I've run into issues in the past more than once with their SDK that blocked me from going forward b/c they don't have binaries that match my configuration. I'm blocked right now and had to remove support when combining sixense with certain other libraries b/c of this (eg: C++11 support doesn't work on OSX).

Post by **virror** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:05 am

I agree on that, also opens up for quick fixes and additions from the community.

Post by **CylonSurfer** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:05 am

Just pledged for the (EARLY BIRD) THREE-TRACKER BUNDLE - WOW this thing will have the funding in no time

Post by **mickman** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:07 am

I wonder if its possible to allocate seperate game objects a STEM ?

So for example... If I wanted a shield to be stem 1 + a sword to be Stem 2.
or perhaps even use 2-3 stems as juggling balls .. or are they purely based on body movement only ?
I guess that's where software support dictates what's possible. So if this is possible you could have a 2nd person wearing 2 Stems for two player interaction .. yes ?

I develop games using Unity Pro & this system really opens up a lot of possibilities.

5 STEMS ! wow now things are get interesting... perhaps add Leap Motion for finger gestures.

In order to foster a robust developer community, the STEM System will be an open platform for creators of both software and hardware consumer products. Developers will be able to create games with virtually no restrictions and to embed STEMs for tracking of their own peripherals or wearable devices, such as swords, baseball bats or head-mounted displays. The modularity of the STEM System will give developers the flexibility and autonomy they need to create motion-tracked titles complete with motion-tracked peripherals of their own design.

Yes it does Awesome !! Man this is going to be so frickn cool

Post by **TheHolyChicken** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:17 am

My mouse is hovering over the 'Pledge' button as we speak. I'm absolutely thrilled this appears to be shattering its goal and getting lots of backers; for any real hope of widespread support, it's critical that there is one primary platform that developers and consumers can rally around (at least at first). It doesn't really matter which platform that is; the important thing is simply that the community chooses a platform at all. From where I'm sitting, it looks like there IS a throne, and Sixense will be the ones to sit on it first. Hurrah for the future of VR!

I only wish I knew what Oculus are up to, as I really want to know what tracking solution they have up their sleeves; it may affect what kind of additional tracking we will need for our VR. Come on Oculus, time for a new update!

Post by **mickman** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:35 am

While Rifters are reading over this Thread keep in mind... Sixense State:

Industrial Design. Our first effort looks and feels great and will support accessories like swords and shields. As we finalize the internals and receive feedback from our backers we may need to make changes to ensure that the design allows for the best possible user experience. Aesthetics and ergonomics aside, the STEM System we’ll ship to our Kickstarter backers will function identically to the retail version.

This is a great opportunity for all Backers to have a say in the design process... Perhaps using this forum as a central point from which we as a collective community are able to put forth our suggestions in a more collaborative approach that gains a stronger interest from the crew at Sixense... yes ?

Post by **zalo** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:38 am

Who cares what Oculus is planning?

Chances are you'll be able to slap one of these babies onto any of the rifts in the future, and it will already exist within the same coordinate space as your hand controllers (unless Oculus wants to make custom hand controllers as well...) This is fairly important.

Backed for five (Early Bird ofcourse).

Post by **ziphnor** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:41 am

zalo wrote:Backed for five (Early Bird ofcourse).

Ditto.

Post by **OlivierJT** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:26 am

Early birds are going like hot cakes.
5 stems here. (backed at 7.03 am ^_^)

The distance is 2.40m Radius, so 5m Diametre and you can extend with another base station.

I wonder if they are going to mirror the controllers, identical controller is strange.

Post by **druidsbane** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:28 am

Any word on multiplayer? Can we use two base stations and 10 stems?

Post by **mickman** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:40 am

Additional STEM Base: $99 each.
Add an additional Base.To extend the play zone range you can add up to two more Bases.

not sure if this is multi-player though

Post by **BOLL** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:22 am

Backed it a few minutes after it launched. Saw there were plenty of early-bird kits so I spent some time reading. Went for the $299 5x STEM kit, very good value as the separate components as addons sum up to $559 (39*5+49*3+59*2+99)

and they throw in a T-shirt and a carrying case! w00t! Lets see what shipping ends up at.

Also, hadn't watched the video until now, that was nicely produced! Nice to see lots of people

Awesome! And haha, kind of fun that I put down the pledge before even watching the video... that's how it goes when Kickstarting at work

Post by **Lookforyourhands** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:16 pm

Backed ! went for the $299 5 tracker system as well. So stoked for this !!!!!!!!

Edit : Couldn't help myself and ordered a 2nd 5 tracker system. Multiplayer is where it's at !
Fortunately we all have our Rift's already or the wait would suck. lol

Post by **Itinerati** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:19 pm

Also backed at the $299 level at a few minutes before 7, this will be fun

I'm excited by the ability to combine extra bases - while I'm not picking up extras right now, I can see that as a useful expansion.

@ druidsbane: Under the controller add-on area: "Each Controller includes a built-in rechargeable battery & communications. STEM is not included. Perfect if you want to use the STEMs that come with the STEM Packs to play a game with a friend (like the Portal 2 MotionPack Co-op campaign)."

Looks like it's possible to use it for multiplayer.

Post by **Lilwolf** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:42 pm

I was going to, but now I'm going to wait. All the early birds are gone, but the 5 point... And at that price, I would rather give the 10 bucks extra and go with a PrioVR... I think??

I'm a bit worried about the PrioVR drivers and game support... but all in all, with the systems that are up now... the PrioVR has 10 sensors for 50 bucks more then STEM... but the PrioVR doesn't have buttons, but there are gun options I like better...

but now, I have some time to wait... no rush... HOpefully the PrioVR gamer version comes up

Post by **druidsbane** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:10 pm

Itinerati wrote:Also backed at the $299 level at a few minutes before 7, this will be fun

I'm excited by the ability to combine extra bases - while I'm not picking up extras right now, I can see that as a useful expansion.

@ druidsbane: Under the controller add-on area: "Each Controller includes a built-in rechargeable battery & communications. STEM is not included. Perfect if you want to use the STEMs that come with the STEM Packs to play a game with a friend (like the Portal 2 MotionPack Co-op campaign)."

Looks like it's possible to use it for multiplayer.

I think the biggest issue is lack of clarification on whether that means we can support more than 5 STEM's. I'd like for two people with 5 STEM's each and two base stations near each other

And I still need word on open sourcing the SDK!

Post by **Nighteyes** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:34 pm

Backed at the Early Bird $199 for 3 sensors.

Post by **LukaszMMt1** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:37 pm

I backed for 2 controllers (with stems) + 3 stems

@2up
They said in an interview that STEM can't track more than 5 points.

Looking at it now. 5 point STEM isn't that much cheaper than PrioVR (the full body mo-cap that's on kickstarter now)

Post by **BOLL** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:44 pm

Heh, as I said previously I noted that they had plenty of early bird packages available for this Kickstarter. Summed it up.

$388500 (149*200+199*300+299*1000)

That means they had enough early bird kits to go well past their funding goal

so even if only their early birds were taken they'd be fine! Clever

Post by **Kazioo** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:09 pm

LukaszMMt1 wrote: Looking at it now. 5 point STEM isn't that much cheaper than PrioVR (the full body mo-cap that's on kickstarter now)

PriorVR doesn't have positional tracking (it calculates position assuming feet contact).
It only has IMUs like the current tracker in the Rift Dev Kit or many smartphones.
It will be better for walking but worse for some subtle things.
I guess that even sitting on a rotating office chair with wheels may cause serious drifts.

Post by **ftarnogol** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:56 pm

I backed the 5 sensor early bird

Post by **ChrisAtYeiTech** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:10 pm

Kazioo wrote: PriorVR doesn't have positional tracking (it calculates position assuming feet contact).
It only has IMUs like the current tracker in the Rift Dev Kit or many smartphones.
It will be better for walking but worse for some subtle things.
I guess that even sitting on a rotating office chair with wheels may cause serious drifts.

The PrioVR sensors themselves won't exhibit orientation drift, and the pedestrian tracking can handle any body part contacting the ground Not just the feet.
Also, with the same scenario even a system with positional sensors will have problems. Sitting in a chair, rotating, and lifting the feet off the ground, with positional sensors, will cause the in-game model to hover above the ground unnaturally, if position alone is used without physics. Thus, the system will suffer from cases of in-game accuracies.
With the PrioVR, you are, however extracting an entire body pose that can allow the in-game character and in-game physics to very closely match the real-world player pose, and feel natural. The STEM, with so few sensors, must use IK calculations to come up with a best-guess at the real-world pose, which is guaranteed to be inaccurate much of the time since there are so many possible poses that can satisfy any give foot/hand/head position set.

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:48 pm

On the other hand, who wants to constantly suit up will all those attachment points everytime you want to suit up to play.

Also, their positional tracking is pretty important for the head

The sixense guys know what they're doing when it comes to consumer mo-cap. These guys have hit the sweet spot here.

Post by **Lilwolf** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:03 pm

Sweet spot on pricing or lack of points?

PrioVR, you can reduce the number of points to whatever you want. But with so much customization, will developers code for it? They have drivers for all the major engines, but guessing developers need to spend time to get them in a game.

blazespinnaker wrote: The sixense guys know what they're doing when it comes to consumer mo-cap. These guys have hit the sweet spot here.

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:29 pm

Lilwolf wrote:Sweet spot on pricing or lack of points?

PrioVR, you can reduce the number of points to whatever you want. But with so much customization, will developers code for it? They have drivers for all the major engines, but guessing developers need to spend time to get them in a game.

blazespinnaker wrote: The sixense guys know what they're doing when it comes to consumer mo-cap. These guys have hit the sweet spot here.

I think they have the right combination of features, pricing, and user experience.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:51 pm

I backed it for the 5 unit $299 early bird.

I think PrioVR has good potential, but I worry that it might not have sufficient uptake in terms of software support to be really useful - so I'll probably just buy one once they commercial versions are released.

Post by **Tbone** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:30 pm

Not I.

Definitely waiting for Oculus to announce what will and will not be included in their consumer package before jumping on any of these other add-ons. Also waiting to see how many games are going to take advantage of the full STEM system. Also waiting for the price to come down (if Oculus can do it, you can do it guys). Also waiting to see if something blows all of this out of the water next month. I also already own a Hydra, and since the Kickstarter states the only difference is the wireless functionality and "living room" gaming space, I should be set for a while. Since it's not shipping until July of next year anyway, there's plenty of time to get a better idea of what the VR market is going to be.

I wouldn't commit this early unless you are a developer planning to incorporate the STEM system into your game/application.

Post by **cybereality** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:46 pm

I backed for the $299, 5 STEM kit. This is going to be awesome.

Anyone want to take bets on the final take? I'd say $1.3M.

Post by **geekmaster** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:04 pm

I did the $299 5-STEM, and the $399 PrioVR PRO today. With my Virtuix Omni capacitive foot tracker sensors that should be plenty of sensors, I think. They were trending about $12 million earlier, but now only $6 million, so perhaps $1.3M is in the ballpark if most of the enthusiasts already backed it.

Post by **Tbone** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:21 pm

cybereality wrote:I backed for the $299, 5 STEM kit. This is going to be awesome.

Anyone want to take bets on the final take? I'd say $1.3M.

What was the final total for the Virtuix Omni? I feel like Sixense will do a little better than that, as it will appeal to the same people: VR enthusiasts with money to burn! Though I think more people are willing to splurge on Sixense than Virtuix.

The Rift was my pre-consumer purchase for the year. I'm saving up to get the consumer version of everything next year*!

*Assuming the consumer versions come out next year

Post by **boone188** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:15 am

I got a 3 tracker pack. Now comes the really hard part... waiting

Post by **Hadtstec** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:47 am

Backed the early bird $199 version. Two Controllers plus an extra STEM to mount onto the RIFT

I really don't know if the Consumer version of the Rift will come with its own Positional tracking. My feeling is that is might not and OculusVR will instead natively support STEM.
Thats my guess and only time will tell.