large enough 1080P LCD panels have arrived

[KBK]

This is a 1080P 'Retina' display panel, at 6.5" (6.45") diagonal, at 1920x1080 rsolution, 16x9 width/height ratio.

Which is very close to being perfect for a Rift mod.

Let the hack games begin.

$280.00 delivered.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/INEW-I60 ... 42054.html

[Fredz]

There are already several phone displays available in 1920x1080 with a suitable size for a devkit replacement, and at a much lower price. What they all have in common is a MIPI interface, probably like this one also.

[ftarnogol]

thinnest Full HD LCD smartphone panel
news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57593208-94/l ... one-panel/

Can't be cheap... but good news is that full HD panels are starting to pop up in every shape and flavor on a consistent basis.

good times are coming

[MrGreen]

I wish the phone market jumps on a 120Hz craze soon.

[zacherynuk]

holding out for nexus 7 2 ... 1900x1200, correct size & correct ratio too

[KBK]

All depends on when the release the Nexus unit.

I'll probably so amused with my rift (arriving middle of next week), that I will probably easily wait for the 1080P unit to arrive from Oculus, or wait until I can buy a panel and not take a chance on an entire unit to strip down and check to see if it is MIPI or not.

But I don't know that yet. I might want to mod it in the first week of owning it. Hell, I've stripped down and begun modifying $20k video projectors on the first day of ownership, so..we'll see.

OK. Now that i think about it. I do know that there are some modifications that I'll be doing to the rift, right after I verify it's operation is correct. As in: Immediately. So I guess the pattern will hold.

[KBK]

I wish the phone market jumps on a 120Hz craze soon.

The panels that they are using on some (at least one) are capable of +120hz .

In the case of the new 6.4" sony xperia Z phone, that panel is expected to be capable of being run by hardware, at 800 hz and the panel itself might be capable of 1000hz. It's technological origins explicitly state that point.

It is the same LCD panel technology that is their new super fast HD televisions, which run at 800hz. The 6.4" phablet might be slow pokey at 30hz or whatever it is set for but the panel proper, with that technology in use, is near 100% likely to be capable of 240hz, right out of the box.

the problem is the custom hardware required to get it done,and probably a MIPI interface. Then the heat, power consumption, and weight. In the case of the phablet panel, it may not even have the ability to do the 120hz or 240hz, as the connectivity systems to the panel proper may not support it. I'm talking about the pixel driver hardware and the cables which are on the panel itself, they may not be set up or designed for 120-240-480-600-720-800hz use.

However, it would probably be the most butter smooth 60hz you would ever find. The pixel switching speed would probably challenge the speed of the pixel driving hardware.

warning, extremely annoying presenter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVO5TtmaLSo

[MSat]

There are already several phone displays available in 1920x1080 with a suitable size for a devkit replacement, and at a much lower price. What they all have in common is a MIPI interface, probably like this one also.

As I've posted before, that's not a deal breaker unless your intention is to reuse the Oculus control box. Consider the 1080 prototype they've demoed - that panel also likely uses a mipi-dsi interface. Nate stated in one of the interviews that they developed a new control box for it.

[KBK]

There are already several phone displays available in 1920x1080 with a suitable size for a devkit replacement, and at a much lower price. What they all have in common is a MIPI interface, probably like this one also.

As I've posted before, that's not a deal breaker unless your intention is to reuse the Oculus control box. Consider the 1080 prototype they've demoed - that panel also likely uses a mipi-dsi interface. Nate stated in one of the interviews that they developed a new control box for it.

There are only one or two places in the world that they could go to, to obtain that hardware, from what I know of the situation.

[MSat]

There are already several phone displays available in 1920x1080 with a suitable size for a devkit replacement, and at a much lower price. What they all have in common is a MIPI interface, probably like this one also.

As I've posted before, that's not a deal breaker unless your intention is to reuse the Oculus control box. Consider the 1080 prototype they've demoed - that panel also likely uses a mipi-dsi interface. Nate stated in one of the interviews that they developed a new control box for it.

There are only one or two places in the world that they could go to, to obtain that hardware, from what I know of the situation.

Huh? Not sure what you mean by that. I've found one manufacturer of ICs that has a product which interfaces between mipi-dsi and another technology. Not sure if anyone else is making them yet.

At any rate, it seems somewhat common for display timing controllers to support multiple interfaces. Not sure what's involved in getting it to work in a different mode, but I'd guess at most it would be a differently routed flex board (and perhaps a change in some of the passive components).

[Inscothen]

Do you have any links for the panel used in the Sony? I don't think the 6.4" can be driven at 800hz even with a custom driver IC. Sony's Motionflow XR 800 Hz is just frame insertion, backlight blinking and other effects that don't actually drive the pixels at 800hz refresh rate(or even over 240hz). Trilumious is quantum dot backlight diffuser so that's actually a HUGE plus for color reproduction in an HMD.

and about the HiRes Rift prototype, I think they are using a custom HDMI-MIPI controller circuit since that would be an easy way of doing it.

about the 7" 1920x1200 panel. I read that they might announce/release the Nexus 7 2 this month. If using MIPI we'd need a new display circuit and if LVDS we'd at least need to reprogram the Rift's controller.

[zacherynuk]

I wish the phone market jumps on a 120Hz craze soon.

Why?

[KBK]

Do you have any links for the panel used in the Sony? I don't think the 6.4" can be driven at 800hz even with a custom driver IC. Sony's Motionflow XR 800 Hz is just frame insertion, backlight blinking and other effects that don't actually drive the pixels at 800hz refresh rate(or even over 240hz). Trilumious is quantum dot backlight diffuser so that's actually a HUGE plus for color reproduction in an HMD.

and about the HiRes Rift prototype, I think they are using a custom HDMI-MIPI controller circuit since that would be an easy way of doing it.

about the 7" 1920x1200 panel. I read that they might announce/release the Nexus 7 2 this month. If using MIPI we'd need a new display circuit and if LVDS we'd at least need to reprogram the Rift's controller.

OK, then I should stop reading marketing trash and thinking it is the march of advancing technology.

That the top is still going to be no more than 240hz, on a good day.

This means that the panel should be able to do a clean 120. Which, for the time being, should be good enough; to be a hold over until quantum dot or similar technology (OLED) arrives.

I'm not ignorant, I just have not looked too deep these days. I used to spend my time pouring over spec sheets and data for these sorts of technologies, digging into the physics, and then applying such to perfect the existing designs. I have not done it for a few years. 5-7 years, to be exact.

Now that my rift is arriving, I'll start looking deeper. Meh, it's a hobby.

As for the nexus 7 1080p upgrade, it is going to be an innolux product, I'm suspecting, and they may be making legacy LVDS panels and MIPI. Only those who've signed NDA's would know at this point.

[KBK]

Huh? Not sure what you mean by that. I've found one manufacturer of ICs that has a product which interfaces between mipi-dsi and another technology. Not sure if anyone else is making them yet.

At any rate, it seems somewhat common for display timing controllers to support multiple interfaces. Not sure what's involved in getting it to work in a different mode, but I'd guess at most it would be a differently routed flex board (and perhaps a change in some of the passive components).

We spoke about this in another thread, IIRC, the answer and queries were the same as now.

1) Develop the proper board with TI's help,

http://www.ti.com/product/sn65dsi85#samples

Or

2) Talk to these guys, see where they are at with their project which probably uses the same

http://www.q-vio.com/lvds.html


Or a possible

3) give these guys a call, see what they are up to:

http://www.toshiba-components.com/mobil ... gehub.html

[Inscothen]

KBK- if you wanna read up on some stuff, in the immediate future IGZO based LCDs and white OLED based displays with color filters(WRGB) is what we should hope for. There might be other tech that might be pushed but IGZO and metal oxide TFT seems to be the way things are going. I know Sharp and LG are supposed to have great panels coming. Japan Display is doing their Low Temp Polysilicon but I haven't read much about it. Don't know what Samsung is going for besides OLED.

There may be Silicon Light-Emitting Diode displays in the future which should be a better choice than OLED and LCD but that's a way off if ever made. Quantum Dot LED's aren't as efficient as OLED yet..

[MSat]

There may be Silicon Light-Emitting Diode displays in the future which should be a better choice than OLED and LCD but that's a way off if ever made.

I think LED displays based on silicon would only really be practical for microdisplays (or perhaps huge outdoor displays). I don't know of the optics requirements to produce a large FoV image from something the size of a typical CMOS imaging sensor, but they would likely be useful for products like Google Glass where you can pack a very high resolution in a tiny package. If they don't require a substantial amount of optics, they probably hold the biggest promise for HMDs in terms of both resolution and reduced costs.

[Inscothen]

Well with possible superlenses being thought up micro displays wouldn't be a problem for FOV. That would give us super lightweight and compact VR HMD's with massive FOV. That all depends on progress with metamaterials and expanding the wavelengths to be in the visible range. I don't think larger displays(rift panel size) would be a problem if silicon LED displays become a real thing for the display market especially if in mass market devices like tablets/phones if they are still popular devices. It all depends on whats going to happen with OLED and QDLED I think. SED never came to market for TV and monitors and you never know what's going to happen with new display tech. If VR really takes off there might be a huge disruption in the display market too, so we'll see.

... but for now, IGZO and metal oxide TFTs LCDs and OLEDs

[remosito]

Try finding a MIPI output capable chip that can drive 1920x1080 at more than 60Hz. There simply are none!

There are 1920x1080 120Hz LVDS output chips, but afaik no 120Hz panels with LVDS input....

Was looking into this because them Galaxy AMOLED panels were sooo tempting to reduce "motion blur"
at the same time as increase visible pixel count....

[Inscothen]

I don't think we will see HD 120hz MIPI panels or driver ICs until there's a market for them. Maybe eDP would work if panels become available and with 120hz support.

[remosito]

I don't think we will see HD 120hz MIPI panels or driver ICs until there's a market for them. Maybe eDP would work if panels become available and with 120hz support.

This will depend how much eDP will take off on the larger panels. Once you have 2560x1600@60Hz Mipi panels, you need MIPI chips that can push that amount of data.

2560x1600@60Hz@8bit/channel = 5.5Gbps

5.5Gbps for 1920x1080@8bit/channel = 118Hz



As a sidenote: According to nextgen Kindle rumors, we have reached 2560x1600 on 8.9 inches.
Looking hopefully maybe for 2560x1600 on 7 inches by next year.

ppi of 1920x1080 on 6inch = 367 ("optimal" size HD panel)
ppi of 2560x1200 on 8.9inch = 339 (rumored kindle fire)
ppi of 2048x1536 on 7.8inch = 328 (rumored ipad mini)
ppi of 2560x1600 on 7inch = 431 (hopeful maybe next year)

[Inscothen]

Sharp was showing off their prototype IGZO 6.1" 2560x1600 panel. Hopefully they put that in one of their phones/tablets and soon. Then we can get a hold of it. 498 ppi

[remosito]

Sharp was showing off their prototype IGZO 6.1" 2560x1600 panel. Hopefully they put that in one of their phones/tablets and soon. Then we can get a hold of it. 498 ppi

I just don't see any phone/phablet manufacturer going beyond 1200p on 6inch and smaller....
maybe,maybe 7inch and larger...

without a buyer this panel will stay prototype forever...

[GUNGRAVE]

oculus relase an image of their hd prototype screen, the aspect ratio doesn't look like any cellphone that i have seen (speculation?)

[remosito]

oculus relase an image of their hd prototype screen, the aspect ratio doesn't look like any cellphone that i have seen (speculation?)

might just be perspective. though it does kinda look longer than 16:9...

custom made 2:1 perfect screen???

[nnamd]

I wish the phone market jumps on a 120Hz craze soon.

Why?

For me 60hz still makes me sick. I have to set my PC games to 120hz if there is a lot of moving around.

[MrGreen]

I wish the phone market jumps on a 120Hz craze soon.

Why?

Because Oculus isn't big enough yet to have custom panels built for their needs and must do with what the smartphone industry pushes forward.

[Ryuuken24]

This talk about 120hz vs 60hz. Games in the rift are like driving a Ferrari, it's waaay too fast, is there a way to slow the game down? Like UT3, the characters just move in a crazy speed.

[zalo]

The Hz have nothing to do with the pace of the game.

Perhaps you'll find some console commands to adjust those attributes in game.

[Inscothen]

http://www.etradesupply.com/oem-lg-opti ... creen.html

This is the prototypes panel I think. The lg 5.5"

I just don't see any phone/phablet manufacturer going beyond 1200p on 6inch and smaller....
maybe,maybe 7inch and larger...

without a buyer this panel will stay prototype forever...

Htc has a 4.7" 1080p phone, why wouldn't you think there would be a 6.1" 2560x1600 phablet? Or a 2560x1440 6"?

[remosito]

http://www.etradesupply.com/oem-lg-opti ... creen.html

This is the prototypes panel I think. The lg 5.5"

I just don't see any phone/phablet manufacturer going beyond 1200p on 6inch and smaller....
maybe,maybe 7inch and larger...

without a buyer this panel will stay prototype forever...

Htc has a 4.7" 1080p phone, why wouldn't you think there would be a 6.1" 2560x1600 phablet? Or a 2560x1440 6"?

Definitely looks like identical panels...

I think by pushing 4.7" to 1080p you actually gain something. Namely all the HD content in original size. As well as the HD label.
And you dont gain that much by pushing 6inch to 1600p or 1440p. There is not much native content for that size. And for most people the difference of 1080p vs 1440p will be hardly noticeable on 6" screen. So I simply think no phablet maker would go that route....

really just my gut feeling...

[Inscothen]

i see your point but still hope we see these in the fall though. Toshiba's similar panel never took off but there wasn't a strong market for 6.1" screens make then.

the great thing about LCD is they could take this 498 ppi process and just cut the glass for larger panels. 4K 8.9" screens?

or the 4.7" 1080p's 468 ppi on a larger cut panel? 6.45" 2560x1600

[MSat]

Try finding a MIPI output capable chip that can drive 1920x1080 at more than 60Hz. There simply are none!

There are 1920x1080 120Hz LVDS output chips, but afaik no 120Hz panels with LVDS input....

Was looking into this because them Galaxy AMOLED panels were sooo tempting to reduce "motion blur"
at the same time as increase visible pixel count....

Well, it makes sense when you consider MIPI-DSI was primarily designed for mobile devices, which probably won't be heading towards 120Hz any time soon.

Anyway, here's the chip I linked to before. It's a parallel RGB to MIPI-DSI interface IC capable of driving 1920x1200 panel @ 60Hz.
http://www.solomon-systech.com/en/produ ... p/ssd2828/

[Inscothen]

OzOnE in the DIY thread was talking to two circuit makers about making a HDMI-MIPI bridge circuit with that Solomon chip. I haven't heard any updates but there might actually be a circuit already in progress from rozsnyo(?) or Chalkboard Electronics. That thread kinda stopped but the LG 5.5" was the first possible Rift hack display talked about since it was the most likely 1080p prototype panel. If you know any circuit designers you could maybe get a inexpensive($40-60) HDMI-MIPI bridge made. That and the LG panel($50-80) and you could get a great HiRes DIY or RiftHack for not much money.